Men,
Seeking advice on how to save this.
Known her since childhood. Our fathers in business together. Our families were close. First love, lost virginity together, everything simple and good. Then our fathers fought. She left easily and coldly as if it had all meant nothing. Heart fucking torn to shreds.
Discover red pill in my anger phase, hate all women for a while, go back and forth between improving myself and wallowing in depression. End up fucking around 70 women over the next two years, unable to have feelings for any of them.
Reconnected with first girl after two years, regularly hate-fuck her. Offered a relationship in a vulnerable moment. She refused, scared of her family's disapproval of me. Still wanted to fuck me on the sly.
Stupidly got her pregnant on purpose with intent to abandon her for revenge. When she did get pregnant I knew I couldn't and decided I would take care of her for the rest of her life if the child was mine. Told her I wanted nothing to do with her pregnancy or baby until I could see a positive paternity test. Cut contact during the pregnancy. She claimed she hadn’t been with anyone else. Paternity tests are not common here and are associated with trashy people on tv shows. Me withdrawing my emotional and financial investment in her until she got one was a huge blow to her and her family, painting her like being a low class whore. Her family furious at both her and me, she had no real support during the pregnancy or the childbirth. Birth was hard 30 hours and she was alone except for medical staff. Claims the experience changed and traumatized her. When she called to tell me the baby was born, coldly told her I would get involved when the paternity test was done.
Paternity test positive. Moved her into my house. Being a good father. My love for her and our son runs deep. She is an excellent and loving mother. I provide her with stability and a stay at home mom life. Made her life relatively easy and comfortable. We get along. We have good sex. But she is extremely stoic like a man. Bitterness runs beneath the surface. The dread during the pregnancy and birth affected her too much. Hair falling out, way too much weight loss, hollow eyes, not eating or sleeping much, not taking care of herself. The way other women yell and cry and let their feelings out would be a thousand times better than this lingering tension and mistrust.
Fear she’ll leave again, maybe with the child. She’s afraid I’ll do it first. Her family hates me. Were very close to me when I was a kid. Might turn her against me.
How to act? How much alpha attraction, how much compassion/comfort?
Wishing to restore what’s broken, innocence and trust we used to have.
To answer my own question: Will try going 80% alpha strength and 20% beta comfort. Just a guess. Know women more likely to stay with bad man they respect than nice man they don't. Have hunch it would be good to bring on this kind of yelling and crying emotional way that most women act when they are upset. It is cathartic for women to let that out, no? It is better than her putting on a front and bottling up her stress and wasting away, no? Asking other men for more suitable advice. Would not bother posting if I could figure it out on my own. I want to love her. Are women not diabolical if men must hold back the fullness of our love in order to earn their respect?
Jackmoter 2d ago
My friend, what you need to do is go here: https://www.reddit.com/r/askMRP/ and then https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/
They deal with fucked up marriage situations and have made many men strong. There is no one answer to your problem and you have a lot of pain ahead of you. Go to the subreddit, make your first askmrp post and once they tear you to shreds make a OYS post and start reading their side bar.
holiday 1d ago
I followed this advice but got banned after my first post. I posted the same thing I posted here. They said I used the word 'she' too much. Really, is it unusual to talk about her when that is what I'm asking for advice about?
adam-l Moderator 2d ago
That's a huge Red Flag for your part. You have a serious case of oneitis, probably some psychopathological background there. You have work ahead. If you do therapy, vet your therapist really well. Must be a man, and must not be gynocentric.
holiday 2d ago
why is it a sign of pathological oneitis to get 70 lays? because it didn't cure my love for the first chick? now that she gave birth to my son and she is with me again there is 0 chance that I would fuck around on the side or anything like that. is oneitis not when a man obsesses over one particular girl who isn't invested in him, usually because he has few other options? I have options, choose not to use them, my girl reciprocates my feelings and is invested in me.
adam-l Moderator 2d ago
We men have a, let's call it "special place in our hearts" for a woman. I like to give the example of Odyssey: Odysseus did fuck around for 10 years (7 of them with Kalypso, a kind of a demigoddess), but ultimately he wanted to come back to Penelope.
The thing is, Penelope was insanely loyal. And that's not to say she didn't have regrets when she finally got her husband back, viewing him as an old man.
This story is quite educational: Odysseus (an archetype of man, really) loved Penelope and valued his family, but that didn't prevent him from fucking around. That's the healthy thing.
Now, the fact is that today a "Penelope" is hard to find, so that's why when a man finds a woman he can project these archetypical expectations on, he might get overly attached to her.
Women, though, feel this as too much of a burden. You have to be able to let her go, in order for her to feel relieved.
On the other hand, she has to feel that you will protect her no matter what, never leave, and grow old together.
Crazy, right? But that's the female archetype.
Right now there is no social contract of (female-sided) monogamy, that would make up for the inconsistency. There is no one to confirm to her that she's doing the right thing sticking with you. On the contrary.
So these are the controversies you have to juggle.
Take Musicgoon78's sage advice.
Right now, and for the next 20 years, the pressing issue will be your child's mental health. Your woman will always be the problem. You won't find the stability you search for in her. You have to be the rock, and you have to find your own way to do it.
holiday 1d ago
I caught an STD while fucking around. Thankfully curable with antibiotics today. Both me and my GF had to be treated. No it's not healthy to fuck around. I never cheated. We weren't together when I fucked around. I can get laid easily with others if I wanted to. Sex in itself isn't that valuable. It isn't like ability to get other women gives me any confidence or outcome independence. My concern is to have a happy relationship and stable family.
"There is no one to confirm to her that she's doing the right thing sticking with you. On the contrary."
The opposite. Her family wants her to leave me. Live in dread of that happening. That's why I made the post. But my GF also lives in dread of me leaving. Relationship is good on the surface but so tense. I try to be the rock of my family. How can you have the outcome independence women want when the reality is you care so much.
holiday 1d ago
"Women, though, feel this as too much of a burden. You have to be able to let her go, in order for her to feel relieved.
On the other hand, she has to feel that you will protect her no matter what, never leave, and grow old together."
You have to be able to let her go but also never leave?? How can those two things co-exist in one mind?
My GF has a tattoo of my name. She is attached to me too, very invested.
adam-l Moderator 1d ago
Technically, it's not "one mind". There are many "minds" in a brain. (Reference: Cosmides and Tooby). These are evolutionary "modules" that are responsible for carrying out a bio-social function.
Men have an "executive" module that referees the others. That's what sets them apart from women: women don't. (And that's why, traditionally, men that wouldn't "keep their word", i.e. couldn't be trusted to referee their instincts, were insulted as "women").
So, a man has a core. A woman doesn't. She's a constellation of feelings, corresponding to the outputs of these modules, that latches onto external things in order to steady herself and have a shape. Typically, those are her man, an abstraction of him such as God, or a paranoia, such as feminism.
Musicgoon78 3 4d ago
I'm going to give my two cents right here. This is from my own personal experience and talking to many guys like you.
Focus on your kid. You're officially stuck in a trap of dread and obligation for the next 18 years. It's not your job to fix her, it's your job to raise your kid right and to fix yourself.
My ex hated my family, my family hates her and my brothers baby momma and a few girlfriends were in the same boat. The tension will eventually rise to the surface. It will start to get very fucking old. You know and she knows that you're lying to each other and yourselves about the stability of the relationship.
Some magical ratio of alpha and beta is bullshit. You're putting a fresh coat of paint on a dog turd and pretending like it's something else.
I'm going to give you a path. Probably the married red pill will as well. Be ready, they are much more harsh than I am. First thing is to stop trying to fix her. The more energy and time you put into bettering your relationship is like flushing that effort down the toilet. You focus on her and you're going to push her further away.
You made her comfortable. Too comfortable. If she's well provided for she's going to get bored. When she has nothing better to do, she will sit there and stew about you and your flaws. Don't expect her to find gratitude in your generosity. Sounds like she's just going through the motions right now. I think from what you said that you're definitely seeing something underneath the surface of her emotional state.
Your time and energy should be on raising your kid properly, enjoying your life and improving yourself both physically and mentally.
Go out and find things that are fun for you to do and fun things you can do with your kid. If your girl does not want to come along so be it. If she does want to come along, cool. The whole point is to not put your life on hold because she is unhappy. At the end of the day not everybody's going to like you or agree with you. That goes for anyone in life. It's just a fact that nobody is everyone's cup of tea. That's perfectly okay.
The last thing I would do is a bit of research to find out what your legal rights as a father are in your state or area. Have a contingency plan in case she tries to pull some bullshit. Most women will. I'm just speaking from experience. The hardest thing to do is to is to try to keep a broken family together. You're better off putting your efforts into having a good life instead of a fake one.
holiday 4d ago
Thanks man. He is 5 months old. Been living together 4 months. Our relationship looks good on the surface actually. Sex life good, get along in daily life, no arguments or whatever, handle logistics of life well together. But we are both living in a state of dread terrified the other is going to leave. Mostly unspoken. But known each other since we were kids. Can see through bullshit easily. Not possible to put on a front or manipulate or pretend. But she carries on anyways pretending everything is fine. But I know her. Can see it that everything is not well. Not well at all.
"When she has nothing better to do, she will sit there and stew about you and your flaws." How do I stop this? I am fucking desperate. Cannot take it if she leaves again. Not just some oneitis or chick to next and move on. Have banged through 70 other girls trying to forget her and couldn't. This is my first love since before I knew what my dick was for. Now the mother of my son.
Cousin's husband is a lawyer. Says if I get married I would have better claim to custody rights than if just a boyfriend. Don't know if wise to do it. Would marry her if it were that simple. Fear that it would make her respect me less. Make her more likely to leave. That's the only thing.
Musicgoon78 3 4d ago
Marrying her is one of the worst ideas you can have for your future and your relationship. Don't do it. The reasoning for marriage is the wrong reason.
Fear doesn't inspire attraction brother. Living a good life full of fun, laughter, happiness and success does.
I can't stress this enough: if you want a miserable broken home filled with heartache and custody battles that will break your kid, then by all means, put your baby momma first. Focus on the relationship and her needs.
If you want a shot at success in your relationship you have to put yourself first. It sounds counterintuitive, but you feeling sorry for yourself and doing everything for her is really an asshole move. You're not giving her what she needs and not showing your kid strength.
Your lawyer acquaintance is full of shit. You don't need to be married to have rights as a father. Getting married ensures that you get fucked over so badly when she leaves that you'll want to suck a shotgun.
holiday 4d ago
Yeah. That's what I thought about marriage too. That living together with her is enough family security for my son. All marriage would do is make her respect me less and more likely to take off.
Durek_The_Bald 4d ago
Which adds up to 100% autism.
holiday 4d ago
I only ask how much to provide comfort and love vs how much to withdraw and make her have to chase me. In a fucked up situation like this where I have done great wrong to her. My mind spins and I don't know anymore whether to follow mainstream relationship advice or red pill relationship advice. Want to love her and try to make her feel better but will too much of that make her disrespect me and leave? She already left me once like I was nothing. Or was my rejection during pregnancy and birth the ultimate nuclear dread that I need to balance now with beta comfort. I don't know. I will do anything to salvage but I don't know what to do.
Musicgoon78 3 4d ago
Great wrong?? For asking for proof of paternity!!??
You've got it all kinds of fucked up! You've been taking care of her. Why don't you offer to slice off one of your balls with a butter knife as a sacrifice to this goddess... Give me a break.
I've told you that salvaging it will take working on yourself.
holiday 4d ago
The great wrong of going no contact during the pregnancy and the childbirth. Feel like that was the worst dread. Her being alone, afraid and in pain for 30 hours giving birth to my son. Don't know if I best try to relieve her dread and comfort her so that she is less anxious. Or just leave it be because feeling dread makes women want to stay with a man and impress him. Don't know if I am going too far and breaking her. Our relationship seems good on the surface but both of us are living in dread and fear that the other might leave.
First-light 2 4d ago
When you hurt women like this, it is very hard to get them back. The hurt is very deeply ingrained. Women have small lives. They have faint hearts. Childbirth is a huge thing for them and when its hard it really does traumatise them, when they feel you abandoned them they never forget and will remind you at all the worst moments.
You have a young family. Its not necessarily lost yet. She still needs you. You will have other children and you can be more of a source of strength for her then.
Now fix it with her family. Family is important to her. You may even be wrong about the way she left coldly. There is no way to do a dirty job but to just do it. She dumped you because her family told her to but she still came back to bang you secretly. Perhaps she did retain feelings for you. Perhaps, she just managed to bury them. In real LTRs not what most people on her mean by LTR -bang her for a year or more- but actually relationships that lead to family, what you do is far more important than what you say. She came back to you when her family hated the idea. You hate fucked her, knocked her up, called her a whore and left her on her own at a time of great fear and hormonal turmoil. Now do something positive. Apologise to her. tell her you are going to make it right with her family. Start with a public apology to them, try to heal the breach. This will mean a lot to her.
Forget all that alpha beta shit. Be supportive. You don't have to do this in a beta way but actually be the support she needs when she needs it. Its not about buying her stuff or doing house hold chores or anything its about the big moments when she is actually weak.
Do not underestimate the vulnerability of women. I have done so to my cost more than once.
holiday 4d ago
She is emotionally very much like a man. She does not cry or yell or lose control to her emotions. When she is upset she is stoic and holds it inside. She buries everything. The only way to tell she is upset is because she stops eating much, stops sleeping much, hair falls out, organizes compulsively. She does not complain. She takes responsibility and owns up to her mistakes and admits when she was wrong. Unheard of in women. Wish she was not this way. Would rather she yell and cry like other women. Better than this shell that I cannot break through. Then she wants to be treated like a kid but won't admit it. Refuse to sleep unless I physically put her in bed. She will stay up until 3 in the morning organizing the closets and the bathroom cabinets just so. Then be up again at 6 or 7. Refuse to eat unless I sit her on my lap and fork food to her. Literally will not eat or sleep if I am not there. She was lying to me saying she was having lunch together with her BFF. When I contacted the BFF she told me no, my girl does not eat when they are together.
She apologized already for leaving me back then. I apologized already for not being there for her at her birth and for not believing her about the baby. All the anger is gone on my side. No feelings of revenge toward her anymore. At the time all those things felt like justified revenge because I was so mad. Now we both live in a state of dread afraid the other is going to leave.
Tried to apologize to her family. Asked my father to apologize to her father but he will not. Tried to extend the olive branch to her father but he will not accept it. Her mother used to be like a second mother to me when I was a kid. Now she is frosty cold with me. Her brother tells her she's a whore for getting pregnant with my kid because I am only seen as the son of the enemy of their father since our fathers quarrelled.
throwaway415 1 5d ago
ive never been in this situation so it's hard for me to give you advice. you might want to check out marriedredpill. her leaving again is a very real and statistically significant possibility. mentally and financially prepare for a very difficult road ahead. realistically, you are never going to "restore" the innocence and trust you used to have. Things will never go back to the way they were before. We can't turn back time. all you can do at this point is try to make the best of a bad situation and mitigate as much of the damage as possible.
seems like a bad situation all around but you already acknowledged that you fucked up by getting her pregnant so I'm not going to beat a dead horse here and remind you of this. i just hope other guys learn from this and don't repeat the same mistake
holiday 4d ago
Impossible to restore how she was sweet and wholesome before? Does it not matter that I was the first man to ever fuck her and that I am here now to take care of her?