I've been reading around here for a while, and a few of the things I have learned are to always be "the leader" and never let potential prospects, plates, partners etc.. see you as being vulnerable or weak.
Now with that being said, I know plenty of guys who come off as a "little bitch" but they still have no problem getting a hot girlfriend and getting laid frequently (even though socially, they act like they're castrated). Most of these guys are relatively good looking (not on the level of a male model) they dress stylishly and have hobbies/interests but they're not leaders, experts, or cassanova types either.
What I don't understand is how these guys can get tail, but a guy like me who lifts 4 days a week, does well in school, speaks with confidence, has long-term life goals and knows how to lead (not as well as a CEO or something, but I manage a small diner restaurant for now) can't secure a 2nd date. I've been accused a few times of "only wanting sex" but that was from women who let me know they're playing the field and not interested in any serious commitment.
Also, I don't do too much cold approaching and average maybe 1 date per month and about 5-10 number closes per month which usually wind up fizzling out.
intelcorei5 10y ago
Exclusive relationships require roughly equal amounts of alpha and beta.
If you want to go through life fucking one girl at a time who is about as attractive as you are, you can probably do that with not too much difficulty or game.
But men are not made to be satisfied. We are made to be ambitious and pursue MORE and obsess with building ourselves to higher accomplishments. Including but not limited to more and sexier women.
oldredder 10y ago
The only thing stopping a beta male from having a healthy relationship is a society that poisons women.
Beta & alpha both have their place. Being red pill actually means admitting this and working with it, not against it. It also means understanding how poisoned women are by the society / family that influenced them. If at all but today that's not "if"
"life goals and knows how to lead (not as well as a CEO or something, but I manage a small diner restaurant for now) can't secure a 2nd date."
Probably because those girls who like guys like you don't want to date at all - they want to fuck in an undefined relationship and fuck other guys when they're bored of you.
"Most of these guys are relatively good looking (not on the level of a male model) they dress stylishly and have hobbies/interests but they're not leaders, experts, or cassanova types either. "
That's because women like hot guys who dress well and that in and of itself is the genetic game & choices you make (clothing)
crimson-hound 10y ago
Yeah but, I'd say I'm on par with most of these guys. I dress in similar fashion (alternative/indie rock look if I had to pinpoint it) I've been told I'm "hot" by girls I would consider to be "hot" except I have a little bit more going for me than these other guys.
Not to brag, but most of them are losers and sort of stupid. I played in a few mildly successful (for what it was) local bands (did some touring and released albums on indie labels), student, full-time job, tattoos/piercings, nice haircut, athletic build, great sense of humor, adventurous etc..
I really have no idea what's going on. I haven't got laid in nearly 2 years now (although I had opportunities with women who I find kind of gross/not attractive). I've had a few kiss-closes.. I know my game sucks (as in pick up) but it's common for women to approach me or comment on my dress when I'm out and about. If I # close them, they usually flake and never text back, just stop talking to me/cancel dates, or not be interested in following up with a second date.
I do really suck with escalation and always feel like it's super awkward unless I'm drunk. Even then I've had a lot of instances where things just turned weird when I went to escalate.. It wasn't anything too extreme either, just some mild kino like an arm around her waist or bringing her in for a kiss when dancing at a club or something.
I guess that hit or miss aspect is all part of the game though, maybe I should focus on the positive kino experiences and escalation I've had to get over this.
oldredder 10y ago
well: don't stop at kiss-close or number-close when a girl is giving enough indicators of interest that she's actually down to fuck NOW. She'll take it as fear or cluelessness and lose attraction and be done.
I almost never number-close. Pretty much when I fuck a girl who I've got the number for it's because I fucked her first, got her number after, and then fucked her more.
"I do really suck with escalation and always feel like it's super awkward unless I'm drunk."
That's a problem. Women will not like the fear / confusion they think is the source of this and will sniff it out quickly in every millimeter of movement of your entire body leading right up to that, plus their own moves. They'll open an opportunity so you must face this at the time of her choosing and your action/inaction decides if she will fuck you, friend-zone you or dismiss you completely.
Check out the physical moves Todd Valentine / RSD Todd is using - inviting motions that bring the girl in so she's working for the escalation too. Instead of you acting on her passive acceptance she's hugging you, taking your hand, kissing you, you kiss and pull back but just enough you're teasing/daring her to come back and kiss you harder but show she's the one who wants it.
That should take away the awkwardness. The source of that awkwardness is your own perception that your desire for her is unwanted. You can erase that in her and you. If she sees that in you, that feeling "she doesn't really want me to do this" that will make her feel that way aka "self-fulfilling prophecy".
Archwinger 10y ago
“Alpha” and “beta” are contextual. Think back to high school. The cute nerdy girls in honors classes aren’t going to date the captain of the football team who spends all of his spare time lifting weights and hanging out with jocks and cheerleaders. They’re going to date the goofy, funny guy on the debate team who’s too skinny and kind of awkward, but is well-liked and kind of popular in his own social circle. He’s “alpha” in that social scene. Hell, he may be more alpha than some try-hard jock, because he’s true to himself. He’s not the least bit ashamed about playing on-line RPGs with his nerd friends, staying up late playing video games, reading crappy sci-fi books. He owns it, does what he wants, is open about his life, and since he knows he’s a nerdy dork, he interacts with women like he doesn’t really expect anything – just being normal – and is pleasantly surprised when girls in his own social circle kind of like him. In the eyes of that particular circle of women, the football players are dumbasses. But that lanky nerd from the debate team doesn’t have a shot with the cheerleading captain.
This translates into real life. In the right circles, that guy with the shaved head and 50 tattoos on his scalp with piercings everywhere is the king, while the guy in the Armani suit with the Porsche and perfect hair and teeth is laughed at. But the tattooed freak couldn’t drive his car within five miles of the Armani man’s neighborhood without getting pulled over.
Strangeclouds420 10y ago
Great analysis, the "alpha-beta" dichotomy is relative.
[deleted] 10y ago
Your alpha/beta behavior is just a component of your SMV. These "beta" guys might be rich, have high status (don't underestimate social status), naturally good looking, dress well, etc.
[deleted] 10y ago
Different personalities. My best friend lets his wife call the shots. He's content with letting her be the boss. She wants to be the boss. It works for them.
Cyralea 10y ago
Attractiveness. Even in my beta days I could pull women here and there for LTR's. They just pack up and leave in a few months.
SMV is comprised of many things for a man. Your buddy has elevated SMV from his status, but brought down because of his behaviour. That's enough to get him laid occasionally and have short-term relationships.
TekkomanKingz 10y ago
Sounds like you are in a bad area. Some areas are just concentrated with flakes and low IQ chicks. You intimidate them and are perceived as "trying too hard". You need a change of scenery.
DeputyDelicious 10y ago
One of my good friend's brothers is in a band and according to him is the biggest beta on earth, but girls still worship him.
If you're just that attractive physically you're just that attractive man.
Plus you sound like you care to much. Read that Hate is the new love Post from archwinger. I think you haven't killed your ego. You expect too much from women. Realize something. If women aren't responding to you. It's your fault. Somehow, someway. You are not appealing to the demographic of women that you are interested in. So change yourself and let go of your ego.
crimson-hound 10y ago
You're right, sometimes I wonder if my over-analytical nature (IE: caring too much) can be sensed by the women I go out with. A lot of the time too in my head I'm thinking "don't get emotional and fuck this up, don't get emotional and fuck this up" and I wind up doing just that.
Since I found PUA sites and the manosphere a few years ago, I've gone on dates with maybe 30 something women. All of them have lost interest after 2 or 3 dates aside from one committed relationship which I broke off after 2 months, and another where I got dumped after 1 year (and possibly cheated on). I have always attributed this "loss of interest" to a better catch coming along for her (which I can never prove). I guess I'm a bit of a head case when it comes to dating, I never let it verbally show, but the anxiety eats me up on the inside. In my last relationship, my girlfriend would humiliate me for my anxiety but I stayed with her because I thought I loved her and wanted to get over my anxiety for her.
Any advice on how to lose the ego? I read the "Hate is the New Love" post last night, but honestly being indifferent in dating and not catching the "feelz" is way easier said than done. I've been trying to eliminate this from myself since stumbling upon the manosphere years ago and I still can't do it. I'm feeling hopeless.
dreckmal 10y ago
Just as horses smell fear, women smell too-much-give-a-shit.
Stop caring so much. Women can smell the desperation, which you get because you value them more than they do.
They can smell your desire to change yourself to keep her in your life, which is horribly unattractive.
Out of curiosity, are you trying to engage in TRP behavior to get women?
TekkomanKingz 10y ago
I am similar to you but have learned there is a time and a place for it. Turn the cogwheels in your head off when you are dealing with Women. Maybe even act a little naive to build comfort. They probably perceive you are much smarter than them and are afraid of being taken advantage of.
[deleted] 10y ago
I'd worry less about getting emotional... women like guys who get emotional. Why do you think they are turned on by passionate men / or felons who are violent and can't control their tempers...
Be emotional. Be cocky. Be belittling in a fun way. Be a little crazy. There's something about your post that makes me think you're coming off as a boring, confident, straight-shooter who only wants sex. That's not what women want, sadly.
let_terror_reign 10y ago
I wanted to write an in depth post on this, but someone on the main sub beat me to it. The idea I was tinkering with is that any man in a successful relationship isn't truly beta. Every woman has traits that she considers alpha, and while the ones TRP believes in are hallmarks of strength some women have other attributes that they pay more attention to.
Some women from different backgrounds haven't had anyone care for them and seeing someone go the extra mile might be something special to them. Alpha is purely contextual.
betarex 10y ago
Because they've done the CC and settle for BB
1NV0K3R 10y ago
The funny thing about TRP and this is that it's really just a set of guidelines, not a strict law that govern women. Yes AWALT, yes lift, yes Abundance Mentality, yes Amused Mastery etc etc etc, but in the end it still all ends up to the kind of girls you approach/talk to.
Maybe to YOU they act castrated, but behind the scenes it is a completely different story.
Ausei 10y ago
This is what I've seen. Especially in my own father he may seem soft a lot but he doesnt take shit and my mom is still crazy for him.
forgetful_storytellr 10y ago
Because she hasn't found someone better yet.
InformalCriticism 10y ago
You use the word "healthy" but I don't think it means what you think it means.
Basically, the "healthy" relationships today, as you describe them, are likely young women using men as accessories to their social image. Of course they want a pleasant and presentable man to show off to their friends. Will it last? It will last for as long as she puts up with his subservience.
SenorPuff 10y ago
Some women aren't broken by feminism and still support their man.
'Unicorns' are less uncommon in religious circles. Both parties buy in, there are predetermined roles, and it works. Those brought up in this environment will still have some of that influence even if they aren't the epitome of piety.
It sounds like you're partially in monk mode and wondering why you aren't getting tail. Don't half ass two things. Whole ass one. Either focus on SMV development, or get out there and start being social(although you never stop increasing your SMV). You've got to fail about 1000 times (or so it'll seem) before you get consistent results.
Approach one woman a day this month. Go to or host a party. Go to your favorite pickup spot 3 times a week(club, mall, coffee shop, bar, whatever).
[deleted] 10y ago
A lot of women get sick of being pumped and dumped by guys and eventually just want to have a boyfriend or husband.
They come to the point, usually near 30 when their friends are getting married, where they would rather be with a beta male than be alone.
kingofpoplives 10y ago
Certain types of girls prefer to be in relationships with men who defer to them. This naturally leads them to pair up with betas.
As you said, these guys aren't total losers. They're good looking and have stuff going on.
Its sort of similar to guys who prefer to date "feisty" women. This fits within the natural range of variation and doesn't invalidate AWALT.
ddrj 10y ago
Came here to say this. Opposites attract. A beta male will enjoy a relationship with an alpha female as will an alpha male with a beta female. One of my friends is the most jacked and alpha LOOKING male out of my social circle but he end up always falling for alpha females. When I asked him why he chases these type of female who usually leave him heart broken and depressed in the end, his reply was, "because they call me out on my shit man, they put me in check... I need a girl to call me out". His words. The funny thing is that because he looks alpha, he attracts a lot of feminine females who get bored of him fast when they realize his personality is beta as fuck.
DowntownSacramento 10y ago
Point taken. I'm all about feisty girls.
Str8tuptrollin 10y ago
Most likely they aren't healthy or successful relationships, she's probably cheating of thinking of cheating yet maintains the facade of a healthy relationship.