Hi. I've been married for seven years. We are each other's first. We have four children which is awesome.
Over the last several years things have been getting strange between us. She cries a lot and seems very fragile. I, on the other hand, have been getting stronger and more independent.
Now, I started down this path because I recognized that I needed to be more of a man and it would be good for our marriage. Yet, now it seems like I have enormous power that I had better not use because she can't handle it.
Her mother is not an intelligent person and neither is her grandmother on her mom's side. My wife makes fun of her mom but I'm seeing more and more of her, especially her reluctance to make a choice that cuts off another choice even if it gets her what she wants.
To be fair, I'm seeing a bit of my dad in myself, but not too much. My efforts to be a less passive person have in part been to avoid some mistakes and omissions my dad made.
So, I'm asking for advice. Here are a few examples of problems in case you'd like to keep reading:
I find myself feeling as though I need to slow down to her pace of being able to solve problems and get through things. It feels very slow. For example, we are a little tight financially until the end of the year, and it has taken me about four months to get her to understand that we have expenses. I just had to take out a short-term loan because she paid bills in the wrong order and some much too early. She insists that this is a new concept, but we've been going over the budget together closely since April. I know that what she really thinks is that if she uses up all the money now, it will inspire us to live frugally. Watching her dance all around that is painfully obvious, but if I suggest it she becomes upset.
Another example is that she insists on teaching our children, who are young, to do five minute chores that take an hour of exhausting supervision from her. Things like moving chairs around to sweep the floor, while nice to see a five-year-old doing, are hardly worth the effort. I've tried to get her to see that she could just clean the kitchen in 10 minutes and spend the time and and the energy teaching something a lot more interesting like piano or baseball, but she gets upset because she seems to believe they'll grow up without a work ethic if she doesn't get them over their laziness right now.
Another example is that she believes she is failing as a wife/mother and so gets upset and makes our home unpleasant. I counter by being extra chill, speaking in a low, firm voice to her and the children, focusing on the work I want to do and not rewarding her, etc. This upsets her because she sees it as passive, but later she wants to go through a little routine where she smiles and says sorry, we have a long talk about it, etc. I found that enjoyable half a decade ago but now I see that it's a cycle and I would rather keep doing what I'm doing than reward the earlier crying. This leads her to suggest I'm angry with her, send me passive texts from a different room in the house, etc. She doesn't seem to understand that if she just calms down, time will take care of her fears and stop her from acting out and making them come true.
So, again, what is a good way to handle this? I'm open to just about any kind of idea/approach except having sex with someone else.
[deleted] 10y ago
Just saying, I wouldn't take the time to teach her how finances / bank accounts / budgets, etc all work. Could really comeback to bite you one day.
In all seriousness though, you need to stop trying to change her mentally. You can't teach someone to be "not slow" as you put it. If she hasn't learned how to not bleed money and manage basic finances by her age, then it's too late. She isn't your wife for her fiscal acumen - that is what you provide. Figure out 5 things she IS good at, and encourage her in those roles.
Like with a good company, you want everyone doing the roles they are optimized for. If your R&D guy is tied up dealing with budget restraints, your whiz accountant is busy politicing, and your smooth-talking marketing guy is trying to learn Python, then you have a problem.
Take charge of your areas, don't try to bring her up to your speed. You play baseball with your kids, let her do her things with them. If she is doing something irrational, just let her as long as it isn't causing any harm. For example, making the kids do chores in an ineffective way may aggravate her, but no one's hurt. Let her knock herself out, it is important for her to feel like she is teaching them something (which will in turn raise her confidence as a mother).
Don't be passive. You know this, but you seem aware that it slips through. Unreactivity is a solid principle, but it doesn't mean to be passive. Passivity is weak, end of story. If she is making the home unpleasant, let her know - don't argue. NEVER argue, just say, "Dear let me say what I have to say" and then explain what she needs to do. End the conversation on that note. This is very important. Don't try to convince her, state what is going to happen.
For example when she is doing her "sad routine", you just need to say "Okay, listen. The issue here is that you are doing X which makes the house unpleasant. You know that me and the kids - and even you - really need for you to be more positive. We want our children growing up around positive, confident role-models." And done.
Do not get embroiled in a long discussion, don't try to change her. Spit your piece, and then get out, and let the words and your following actions change her behavior over the long run.
W_O_M_B_A_T 10y ago
The nature of the task is unimportant, nor is the amount of time required to do it. that's irrelevant.
What important is the underlying emotional dialog that going on in these interactions.
Is the mood when this is taking place an overall positive one?
Does she rewards the kid with brief but genuine positive reinforcement when a certain part of the task is done? Is she encouraging and supportive more than demanding? Do your kids seem happy and interested, or unhappy and withdrawn? Does she respect their wishes when they're not having it?
Or do you see this as her trying to re-hash her own emotional insecurities by using the child as a proxy?
If you see it as overall being positive emotionally, then who gives a fuck what it is or how long it takes? Kids like feeling like they're doing something positive just like adults do. It's a game to them anyway.
whatever6 10y ago
Kids should to chores. But 5 year olds is too young for that. Once they're teens then they absolutely should be given some "responsibility" for things in the house. One kid responsible for cleaning dishes, other for cleaning something, taking out the trash etc.
RedBigMan 10y ago
You are overthinking it. YOU are the man and YOU should be the one making the decisions. I believe someone used the nautical analogy. The Man is the Captain of the Ship and the Woman is the First Mate. The Captain may let the First Mate steer the ship from time to time but he's the one that determines where they're sailing to.
If your wife is screwing up the finances then you have to be the man and take control of the finances away from her. Trust me, from experience that nobody wants to live frugally when they have no choice in the matter.
Really though the best way to handle things when they get heated and she starts crying may actually be to just walk the fuck out. Leave the house and go for a walk for an hour or so. When you come back she will be far more receptive to listening to what you have to say and likely not in a mood to engage in verbal combat (which is what the initial argument/crying is usually when they're primed and ready for a war of words).
mrust 10y ago
Her crying is an attempt to manipulate you to bring things back to the way they used to be. Your third paragraph indicates that it is working.
You have indicated that you've gotten stronger and more independent. It's time for the next step and that means being the leader in the relationship. Start setting boundaries and enforcing them.
It seems like you are discussing everything and being very patient. If you have raised your value, the likely explanation for your four month attempt to explain expenses is that she likes the attention you are giving her.
You need to give her more positive reinforcement when she behaves the way that you like.
mondrianw 10y ago
Thanks to you and everyone else. I think this line of thinking is correct and I've started to apply it.
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