This started as a comment response in the Jordan Peterson on Crazy Women thread but bears its own post.
Many, many, years ago I was in a live-in LTR that took so much energy and attention that a lot of my friendships didn't survive, because I let them atrophy. Too many declined invitations, cancelling plans last minute, unresponded to calls, and one or two "I can't invite you over if I want peace at home," events and people just drop off. If your LTR starts fights before you go to see your friends, or worse, creates a shitstorm before a planned social event that you have the invitation for, she is isolating you from your support network to get more leverage in your relationship. Some people just have instincts for parasitic behavior they learned from narcissistic parents. A girl like that doesn't care what kind of attention she gets, so long as she has it, particularly at the expense of someone else. That's what being taught to "talk through," issues with women can do to men.
The guy in the relationship who lets his friendships atrophy and his support network fail has had his fundamental self esteem damaged. In the case of dating a crazy chick, it's often by some kind of emotional blackmail where she takes the thing he defines himself by (provider, honest, kind, strong, smart, loyal, etc. ) creates a situation where that value is questioned, then holds it over him to do what she says to "prove," himself. That's every woman, but with the insane, it's like that 100x.
But here's the point of this post:
Most guys are essentially walking around with a gun to their own heads, to be something, do something, believe something "or else." That's what your ego does, it puts the gun to your head and your finger on the trigger and tells you what to do to keep it protected. Its bargain is, keep me whole and intact or I swear we will pull this trigger together. If you have ever had to carry something above your shoulders for any period, you know its fucking exhausting, and on top of that you need to respond to the demands of your ego to be loyal, giving, generous, and self sacrificing while holding it there. The essence of a co-dependent (blue pilled) relationship is for a guy to just be so relieved and happy to have finally found a woman who will give him some rest and support, and release him from that terrible burden, by holding that gun there for him.
Values like being a provider, loyal, self sacrificing and chivalrous, seem virtuous, but they are ego driven. Ego driven means a guy will take on an infinite amount of suffering before letting them go. The thing you would "die," or "kill yourself," if you ceased to be or became, is the lever they will pull to manipulate you. Those things are the bullets in the gun at your head. Once you know what those things are, the things the Ego is telling you to do that protect it while it marches you around - you can see when people reach for them. When you recognize your Ego as an external thing that you can survive and even thrive without, that's what it means to not give a fuck. One of the best things about reading all this stuff on the Red Pill is how funny it is to watch how people react when they realize the gun they've snatched and pointed at you isn't loaded.
Reality is, you can always live more happily without those conditions, no matter how noble you may think they are and how persuasive your Ego is, but when you are young (or BP'd) you don't know any better.
Friends whose self esteem has taken a poisonous blow won't do it for themselves anymore. That's the essence of that blow. It's not about being a pussy, bluepilled fag, it's that you have been psychologically poisoned by a parasitic mind, and you need time and space to recover before being able to fight for yourself. Friends provide that time and space.
As a friend to others now, I work every day to improve myself so that I can have the experience, credibility, and gravitas to be the friend I needed back then.
A big part of that is examining the things you think you would "die," without. The ones that are not physically true are the bullets in the gun your Ego has pointed at your head. You can't reason with it, or talk it out of pointing the gun at you, that is its nature and what it does. What changed my own life, which I hope you may also find, was the realization that the gun at my head (with the unreasonable demands) that had become so heavy and painful to carry, was empty.
Click.

CanuckinFL 8y ago
Dude. I’m a Classics major so I’m with you 100%, but we could pick Aristotle, Plato (literally any discussion on ethics or character, Acquinas, Moore, any of the German pseudo Christian philosophers, etc to justify a point. So yeah. Old dead white guys.
CoupDeGrace22 8y ago
Extending on what you wrote OP, one of the biggest things a woman will try to use to manipulate you is your integrity.
Last LTR always used this tactic on me, I was a fool for falling for her and asides from many mistakes, reciprocating and being overly sentimental in my words, which is exactly what she would use against me every time a fight started, said fights mind you always started by something she did wrong that I wasn't THAT stupid to let it fly.
She made me promise things that she didn't uphold and kept parroting the same excuse ad infinitum with no responsibility, yet while arguing she would use my integrity against me in the form of "If you are true to your words you will stay with me" or "Your word has no value if you are pushing to leave me" (Not exact words, this was the meaning.)
In retrospect now, I find it genius. I let her in on my past, and she knew what I value and what I stand by, she got me to say shit like that only to weaponize it against me as soon as she started creating problems and showing her other colors.
Thankfully she did what I initially suspected but didn't want to believe and pushed for a marriage ultimatum in a very blatant manner which caused my redpill parachute to open and woke me the fuck up, dropped her then and there.Never explaining to a woman again nor allowing my value to be questioned by such a worthless cunt.
Mind you I've been through some shit in life and dealt with some manipulative people whether in work or personal life, and still nearly fell for this bitch, always keep your guard up and trust your gut guys, and most of all develop your judgement, and once you know who you are, take hints occasionally , but let absolutely NO ONE tell you otherwise.
0xdada 8y ago
This man gets it.
There is a sympathetic interpretation in all of this, which is that yes, she uses your integrity against you, because shit tests are a test of your integrity. But ironically, like any marginal intelligence, she's just looking for rules.
She's testing, are there rules, are they real and hard, and do they apply to me, and do I want to play by them? If the answer to any of those questions is, "no," you're going to have a bad time.
It's on us as men to have that integrity, but we can't have true integrity when external factors maintain veto options on us through our Egos.
Being a good man in an abusive situation means you didn't make, enforce, apply or play by the rules of your integrity. Sometimes we break those rules out of compassion, sympathy, fatigue, or some forgivable offense. Sometimes we're just bad guys who suck.
The psycho BPD bitch case is when you lapse for a forgivable reason, and she reacts by punishing you for it as though you had gaslighted her and lied, because on a limbic level she doesn't know the difference between temporary failure in your ambitions and elaborate fraud. They lack a natural sense of scale, calibration, or proportion. That's what makes ex-girlfriends so vicious, and perhaps, terrible drivers.
When BP guys hand their ego gun to a girl to hold on them, they give up the ability to forgive themselves, and when they turn to the girl for that forgiveness when times are tough, she interprets it as fraud and just empties the fucking clip into his face, then tries to stuff the hot barrel into his dead ass for his family to find. Mercy is a virtue of men and god, not of nature. If the guy is lucky, he shows up here.
doladolabillyall 8y ago
did we have the same GF? More examples of AWALT.
What got me wasn't the manipulation, she wasn't that smart or patient to be good at it. It was how she was like a robot and was relentless in playing the victim and shifting blame when she was the one clearly in the wrong. I could deal with the first round of this, but like a robot, she wouldn't stop and would just wear me down. I had to move on simply because I couldn't communicate with her and without communication there is no point in being permanent with someone. I just fuck her from time to time, no emotional exchanges, and that FWBs currently could lead to never any day. Plenty of holes out there and this cunt has no intellectual value to me.
[deleted] 8y ago
Not that your said they were, but it's important to remember all women do this and it's not a 'malicious' thing, they're just wired that way.
That's why, as OP is saying, it's important to know your own boundaries and have the frame to stand up for them.
Women search for things like your past behaviour, feelings, even what your ex looked like, to get a feel for the framework of the relationship and how they can manipulate it. It's like they're feeling around in the dark, searching for levers to pull
Simultaneously they'll then rationalise how their behaviour is exceptional (snowflake), and if, as a man who loves them, you are inclined to do, you try to make it all fit logically in your mind...you're well and truly fucked.
Example: My ex actually really was exceptional in many ways which I won't go into here, and she certainly percieved herself as having very high standards, with men and in the behaviour she tolerated from men, and life in general. As a very beautiful, highly intelligent woman with incredible frame, i was seduced into believing in her world view.
She frequently referred to other women as sluts, from their appearance, their dress, their facebook posts etc.
So when it emerged my little unicorn had had not one, but two cock trains run on her, I experienced cognitive dissonance (understatement).
Anyway, OP here is right, develop your own judgment, especially regards women, because they can rationalise almost anything to themselves. If you let them guide your perception, you'll get two results 1) they'll know you have weak frame and lose respect and 2) you'll be very, very disappointed when you finally wake up and it all turns out to be bullshit.
[deleted] 8y ago
Essentially , a woman will make you feel guilty and try to make you the inferior one in the Relationship by questioning your character , right ? So as dudes , we should just not give a fuck and not fall into her traps
0xdada 8y ago
To a point. Arguably, it should never be a question of whether she's right at all. Hard to explain briefly. Would you feel that you had stuck it to those nasty dogs by craftily not stepping in dog shit? That would be ridiculous, so relating to shit tests as traps laid by a peer, antagonist, or rival is kind of the same thing. When you change the way you relate to yourself by hacking your ego, essentially jailbreaking your psyche with realizations like the one above, tests cease to be a thing.
CanuckinFL 8y ago
Oxada, i take issue. I don't think you're wrong, in that hacking your ego makes you more impervious to the more common shit tests. But that is a never-ending ...evolution. It's never complete until you cease to breathe.
I rarely underestimate an enemy, and I don't wanna start now, but to be quite frank, I've been on this ego-congniscent path for a long time.
It hasn't stopped girls, who from the age of about 8-11, begin assessing social situations, from shit testing me in the slightest.
The tests never stop, which is part of life.
You just recognize and deal with the MAJORITY of them you would've once failed. But also part of life is recognizing the sheer ego in thinking you've managed to 'outgrow' shit tests, particularly ones you don't recognize as such in the moment.
They never. ever stop. Essentially I'm suggesting they couldn't stop or "not be a thing" - not if the rules of epistemology hold proper.
0xdada 8y ago
Of course they never stop, but once you recognize the tests as external, and addressed to an Ego you have learned to disarm and manage, to you the tests are no longer a thing. By no longer a thing I mean, cease to make much of an impression.
Anything you pass was just a shit test. Anything you fail is "her doing something to you." When the way you choose to relate to the world obviates the second case, the first becomes the norm.
Read Epictetus on the matter of defining who you are, or what "you" is. If that definition includes things beyond your actual control, then yes, you will suffer. When it does not include things beyond your control, the actions of other people make impressions, but they do not change "you."
CanuckinFL 8y ago
epictetus is not a bad recommendation, man. But seriously this is way beyond the scope of what's going on here. It's fun to pull up dead white latin/greek/german guys by way of justification.
But honestly, what I'm after is to quiet the voices in the head, not feed them. Not anymore.
0xdada 8y ago
Are you seriously arguing with me that the thing I'm proposing to give people some leverage over the voices in their heads doesn't align with what your particular voices are telling you, and that I should somehow acknowledge your special voices?
Yeah, Epictetus, just some dead white guy. I'm sure a black person said it better, or maybe Confucious, Bhudda, Sidharttha, Zarathustra.
You got me, I am trolled.
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fromthecrypt8 8y ago
Great post. A few friends of mine are in those types of LTR at the moment, and they are letting the women hold that gun every day (my friends are bluepill). It's so sad to see those parasites ruining our friendships. My friends in question are so brainwashed that if I bring it up, they will take their bitches' side almost immediately.
Hotdam- 8y ago
New here but damn. You just shook my foundations on what the ego really is and how it can cripple an individual. Thanks for this, time to monk and grow.
iamlimp 8y ago
One of the best reads I've had on this sub.
roadmaptonowhere 8y ago
This post will be a red pill on its own to many people. You've put liberation into words. Damn.
0xdada 8y ago
Thanks man. It takes another writer to appreciate it fully. PM about projects.
RedPill_Swinger 8y ago
That's how my BPD ex used to behave.
I gave no fucks and used to ignore her.
CopperFox3c 8y ago
The biggest problem with ego is that it seeks permanence in a world that is transient. It wants to conquer, obtain, control, etc.
Nowhere is that more true than in how women love. They are designed by evolution to be able to move easily from one partner to another, i.e. the War Brides mentality. And nothing will fuck you up quicker then letting your ego desperately try to seek permanence in a woman's fickle way of loving. When you strip away your ego, you can finally find value in things, even those that come and go.
Because the value of something is not based on the permanence of the thing. You can still enjoy it, value it, even if one day it is gone. If there is one lesson to learn as a man, learn that.
BNSoul 8y ago
Words of wisdom, I've always held frame after a breakup until that time I was replaced by a different alpha male, the pain is real... but the moment you strip ego away you can see it's just AWALT and appreciate the good and the bad times which made you stronger, life is too short, so many beautiful girls waiting for you to waste time feeling oneitis.
keysomea 8y ago
Saved for posterior reading good post OP
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Senorbubbz 8y ago
You're misunderstanding his use of the word Ego (note the capital E).
MickeyDeMaria 8y ago
What do we do with the ego is the question. Do we destroy it? Do we make it so transparent so it doesn't affect our lives? Do we mold it and harden it so it can defend itself from external aggression, but still be able to send out love?
CanuckinFL 8y ago
I think you make peace with it. it's neither friend nor foe. It's a conception. A thought.
Truth lies beyond such arbitrary and academic splits. When this is internalized, and realized, ego ceases to run you.
But for this jedi, that took a whole lotta face in dirt rubbing.
RedPill_Swinger 8y ago
That's how my BPD ex used to behave.
I gave no fucks and used to ignore her.
Ruhkov 8y ago
Quality post. Kudos. Have an upvote, OP.
[deleted] 8y ago
Here's what I think of ego - burn it to ashes.
It does nothing good for you. Go about doing your own thing, don't let ego dictate you and make worse choices.
RickeySanchez 8y ago
Thank you for this. For a while I’ve been walking around trying to have the biggest ego in the room, and it’s been fucking exhausting. Painful too, when that inflated ego is shattered by something. It’s definitely a step in the right direction for me, but I want to move past caring and into not giving a fuck. Your post has really helped me realize that what I’m doing is no longer serving me, and something needs to change.
bot256 8y ago
This post is gold. Perfectly described my LTR with an emotionally abusive partner who masterfully exploited what I'd like to call principles but then again, I guess a lot of those principles had to do with my BP ego. However, there comes a point when you start to realize that no matter how much you hold true to your words and how hard you try to meet her expectations, you will never get there, it is like the myth about Sisyphus, where he had to constantly push a round rock to the top of a hill, but each time he got to the rock to the top, the rock would start rolling down the other side of the hill - you can never make it and you shouldn't even try to. The whole point, I guess, is that you should stop trying to push that rock and live your own life instead. Thank you for that post, more people need to read this.
CanuckinFL 8y ago
You can see our (well yours anyway) own hamsters at work here:
-When a chick splits (and they all do eventually which is the point), and we disagree-we dress it up nice for ourselves: "Exploited my principles" is the same description as "fucked me purposely by being manipulative" which is the same as "I couldn't stay one move ahead of her, no matter how impressive I thought/kept myself".
The truth is she might have left because someone else had better dick. Or she left because you're too good for her, and she knows she's a piece of shit.
There's no knowing in the end.
And that, my fair friends, hurts the ole ego tremendously. Compare these realizations with the high of "falling for a chick" where you think you're magical, you walk taller, you've reinvented sex, and yours is the only dick in town that works like this.
Ego helps and hurts by degrees. It's essentially human, and I think by that it implies lack. Ego is NEVER satisfied.
And i suspect that's whats behind hypergamy. 100%
AdamAlake 8y ago
You cannot exist without your Ego. The key here is that you have to tame it. Any damage to it is a pure illusion.
[deleted] 8y ago
I feel like you've put the last five+ years of my life into words. That gun is empty, I can still remember the worst moment of it. She told me "I'll kill myself if you leave me." I responded "I'll kill myself if I stay" and I remember just laying there feeling a grueling peace after passing the worst shit test of my life.
Now I'm left with picking up the pieces of abandoned friendships, financial chaos and working on vast self improvement. Meanwhile the war bride found herself a new beta provider within the month. Thanks to TRP I've been able to make sense of all of this rather than sit around wondering what "I" did "wrong." Biology my friends.
CanuckinFL 8y ago
you know, something about the flavor of your text struck me-IF you have any sense (I finally have) about the general state of emotional upheaval women are in from DAY TO GODDAM DAY, then you get why they're hoes and move on faster and replace you quicker than Soviet Russia. To them, feeling bad because a relationship has ended doesn't really feel different than feeling bad because a relationship is working.
My sense about this is when a relationship IS working, naturally, that takes effort. Just remember their ideals don't allow relationships in large part, to work (because they deserve better). Everything is submitted to the public narrative which is all on what women 'deserve'. i think they all imagine a relationship that just does for them what it's supposed to, and doesn't require 'effort'. That's not love to them. Love to them is infatuation and being sought after.
That deserving is for being alive.
Men have to earn theirs. And generally, I don't live in emotional crisis. Damn near any and all of my female friends, plates, or acquaintances- do.
So breaking up for them is just something to actually pin feeling lousy on for a week, or two. Then it's the next thing.
We really don't mean shit to them, you know. Not even warm shit on a shoe.
[deleted] 8y ago
Yep I realized the emotional upheaval isn't very serious to women after reading "The Manipulated Man." Women are coddled and encouraged to express extreme emotion along with that being in their nature. As men we're taught to suppress everything and be stoic from boyhood. When we get into a relationship and see our gf throw a giant emotional fit over something trivial as not getting to go out for the night or vacation plans being changed, our blue pill conditioning causes us to be confused. As men we really believe they're feeling as strongly about the minor thing as we would over our mother dying so we get manipulated into their frame.
My ex, after crying her eyes out and begging me not to go through with it (all while refusing to comply with paying her half of the bills), told me she was excited to be single again. The laugh track in my brain cued up because old blue pill me was devastated at the prospect of being single again. Red pill awareness really has explained almost every interaction with females that I can remember throughout my life.
CanuckinFL 8y ago
Agreed with what you wrote 100%.
Day to day, they seem nuts, awfully unstable about things. They want relationships they don't want. They have sex with people they say they don't like. They react to everything, and seem never really in control.
But ask them to end a relationship, quick, and get some fresh dick, and they all turn into ninja assassins.
That's when I realized (Manipulated Man) that it's not that they're so emotionally stable after a breakup, but for them, a breakup is context for feeling nuts. It's a huge deal of course, to the stoic person.
Rather, it's actually a kind of relief to them, and as you noticed, they can happily get back to being single, which lasts about two-six months before they're miserable and want more.
Coda. Repeat.
I'd blow my brains out inside of a month if I lived like that. I'm glad I'm the prize, and we should (repeat after me) never.doubt.that.again.
CoupDeGrace22 8y ago
Every damn bitch will say extreme shit like that cause it appeals to loyalty, of course we all know that loyalty is what all men want.
Too bad it's hardly ever the case and if you do leave her, as you said within the month she's riding new dick while more often than not the man is picking up the pieces.
The "I'll never love someone again" quote was from the most recent ex of my buddy, he broke up with her due to joining the military. Surprise surprise not even 2 months after, one of her friends I'm talking to finally admits her brother is together with my bud's ex. I thought of not telling him would be better, but I did and turns out he was planning to ask her out as soon as he got leave to come back to town, so at least he knew and didn't fall for more shit.
[deleted] 8y ago
I had a girl (who I used to plate) literally crying on my shoulder saying every one of those quotes two weeks ago after a guy dumped her.
A week later she was at a house party scooping other guys numbers.
Good on her for getting back out there, but it goes to reinforce, women are adapted to move on quick as per the War Brides article from Rollo...
[deleted] 8y ago
One of my best friends is marrying a bitch like you describe this month. I'm the best man. He's gone. See him like 2 times a year even though we live a mile apart. I'm resolved to continually invite him places / include him, and I have subtly hinted my views on marriage / relationships as to not offend him and ruin the relationship, but still get the point across.
It's sad to watch, honestly. We used to be bros. Lift together. Sport together. Music. Etc... Honestly AskTRP convinced me a couple years ago not to say anything about it to him, and I'm glad I didn't. One of his other good friends did a couple weeks ago, and the obvious happened - they fought and he is now not coming to said wedding (boo hoo). People need to figure this shit out on their own. There's nothing we can do for friends like that other than be there for them when shit goes over the cliff.
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