Summary: A while back Rollo Tomassi tweeted "80% of seduction is simply not fucking up what’s already there. Attraction is not a choice - what you do from there is entirely up to you." That reminds me of another quote - "game is played with 'maybe' girls". So what exactly is this game about?
Rare "Yes" Girls
Let's take care of "yes" girls first. There are rare instances when you are exactly who the girl is looking for. Maybe you're physically attractive to her, maybe you said something and she thought that you might be the perfect guy to cheat on her husband with, maybe she's just horny and you look like a viable option for tonight.
I won't analyze the reasons behind why a girl becomes 'yes' girl for you. That's job for Rollo and others. I'm a practitioner who just happen to overanalyze things. I know that there are girls out there craving sex and they will welcome the opportunity that you present. Mind you, not all of them are actively looking for sex. Most girls are passive.
When you encounter a girl who already decided that she's going to have sex with you it's all the matter of a) escalating (you still have to lead her to sex) b) not fucking it up. There is no need to generate more attraction. More than comfort she needs plausible deniability - provide it, don't fuck up and she's yours.
"Maybe No"
Majority of the girls in longer sets and on dates are "maybe" girls. Those girls know what you're about but they don't see themselves fucking you... yet. What's even more important they still haven't decided that they won't fuck you. If she’s still around she’s still a "maybe".
Once a girl realizes she's not going to sleep with you it's game over. It's done. She'll either try to friendzone you, ghost you or she'll somewhat directly say that she's "not feeling this".
The whole concept of game is built on not flipping the "no" switch while continuously escalating towards sex at a pace that is comfortable for her. Do it too fast or too slow or make a big mistake and you'll hear a loud clap of her vagina closing for you forever.
Avoid Flipping The Switch
There are many things you can do (and say) to make her feel more comfortable, aroused or attracted to you. But not doing that won't necessarily mean you're going to lose. If she’s not a "no" then you still have time, she can change her mind later. That's not the case when she thinks "I won't have sex with this guy".
If you're not relying on routines, canned lines and structure to generate attraction but you actually are an attractive and charming guy with impressive lifestyle then it is really more about not losing her than winning her over.
Some would say it's all about "inner game" and I’m more and more inclined to that theory. Of course, when you're starting out it's all about models and routines. But the goal is not to merely appear attractive but to become attractive.
And if you do that then you can treat every girl like a yes girl - escalate and not fuck anything up.
Lessons (re)learned:
- Game in a nutshell: avoid triggering the "no" and keep on escalating and leading towards sex.
- Once she thinks "no" then it is game over. That decision is immutable.
- "Yes" can turn to "maybe" or even "no" due to your actions. Don't fuck it up.
- Pay attention to what made her think "no". Avoid that in the future. You'll success rates will skyr... Let's say - you’ll do better.
- Going from "maybe" to "yes" is a matter of spending time with her, escalating and providing excuses (and comfort).
IntrovertSigma 8y ago
This is why logistics are so important.
Maybe's are more likely to become yes's if the logistics are favourable or you can handle them well.
briskestbrisket 8y ago
Is there any material out there published by RP dudes who have perfected the art of getting laid while living at home? And if I know my logistics aren't going to change for the next year, should I just crush the day game till I have a place at school?
Peter_B_Long 8y ago
I have a car that I can use for sex. I live at home with a large family (2 sisters, one niece, mom, her boyfriend, and grandpa) but they're usually all asleep by 10pm on weekends so I just wait until then.
I know that not having my own place brings my SMV down, but in my area the rent is really expensive. I get along with my family and I have my own room so I just work with what I have.
It seems like the younger girls don't seem to care. I brought home an 18 year old on Friday and I just told her she had to be quiet.
I have a plate (22F) that asked me on our first date if I lived at home and I said yes and then asked if I was planning on moving out soon. She has her own place so we either go there or I invite her to mine after hours.
PeanutFlavor 8y ago
Unless you're 20 and younger, living at home with parent(s) is probably gonna do more to kill your smv than anything else. You'll meet a decent amount of girls who don't have favorable conditions to facilitate hooking up (or they'll claim such in effort to see if you're some loser who still lives with mom) so having your own spot and your own vehicle will forever be the be-all/end-all, of course. Monk-mode and day game purely for fun until you've got your necessities straightened out completely.
briskestbrisket 8y ago
That's what I was thinking. Going to transfer from community college away to a real college next year but I just gotta be patient and learn as much as I can till then.
I could do a killer monk mode and have the day game dialed by the time I rock up at real college. What could I do to make the absolute most out of monk mode?
setsuna0 8y ago
Got any links that explain this better
Peter_B_Long 8y ago
First dates for me I meet up with the girl for a coffee or a drink (for screening).
Second dates are were I set up the logistics for sex. Meet up for drinks at a better location, either do a venue change or suggest we go to my place where I have more alcohol and Rick and Morty.
setsuna0 8y ago
Why exactly do you do a venue change? And not go straight home? lol I don't drink or watch rick and Morty I gotta figure something out haha
Peter_B_Long 8y ago
It builds familiarity and comfort with each other. If you want to take her home but aren't sure if she's comfortable enough or it's too early do a venue change. Venue changes are like having a 2nd or 3rd date on the same day.
There can be any reason for you to invite her over, you just have to pull it off smoothly. "I'm a little hungry, I have some chicken alfredo back at my place. I'm feeling nice so if you'd like to come with me I'll share." or you can be talking about a show you both like and say, "I have Netflix at my place, want to come watch Narcos?"
Situational invites are key. You want invite the interaction to your house using the current interaction. Don't just randomly invite her over out of the blue.
But you're right. My last 2 lays I met both for a second date and we only went to one place and we went to my place after. I knew they were into me so I didn't have to do a venue change. I was even so confident on the second girl that I asked her awkwardly on purpose. We were making out and I said, "hey wanna come over? I have uh.. Rick and Morty" and she said yes.
setsuna0 8y ago
Ah, I see okay. That makes sense to me now. I usually just try to see if they'll come straight over. But if it's a date I'll wait until the 2nd. Because I like to know something about them. And I'll look out for those situational cues. Really that's the most important part. And the easiest if it's going well.
Now my final question to you is would you LTR a girl who gave up sex on the first date? Not on the spot, but eventual. Would the day 1 sex bother you?
Peter_B_Long 8y ago
It's up to you. It's not too easy for me to get dates. They often flake on me or ghost me so I'm okay dragging the interaction a little longer just to make sure I have some comfort before I invite them. I also wait until the 2nd date. 1st dates for me are just for screening. To see if she's psycho, to make sure she hasn't gained 40lbs from her profile pic, to make sure she's not a gold digger, etc.
Yeah first date would ruin her chances of an LTR. Especially because I don't have sex on first dates (because I only do screening). The reason why she fucked you on the first date could be because she hasn't gotten dick in a while and you seemed Chad enough to go wild for a night for, but in an LTR, the thought of her fucking me on the first date would possibly leave a bad taste in my mouth.
setsuna0 8y ago
Yeah I was talking to my brother about that. He told me the same thing and I agree completely. Personally I don't want someone easy ig. It's a red flag. I'd be looking like damn she must've fucked everybody lol. Nothing worse than having a LTR that's been around and ppl clowning you.
Peter_B_Long 8y ago
I'm wondering though if you've been going out and spinning plates. No offense it sounds like you've been studying on it, but you give me an impression that you just have theories vs. experience.
I definitely recommend going out and trying to spin plates, then after you start getting a bit bored of that mild emotional connection and want something a little more stable, then you can come back here on TRP and figure out a good approach to screening and finding a good LTR.
IntrovertSigma 8y ago
Living close to where you meet women is good thing. Failing that arrange dates near your home.
Have a plan of how you want things to go from start to finish, don't just make it up as you go along.
Make note of common objections as you escalate and try to figure out how to prevent them from coming up in the future (much better than coming up with ways of overcoming objections at the time they happen). Preempt those objections.
setsuna0 8y ago
This is why location is important. Rn I live outside of a big city but not in it. All the women are there. If I go across the bridge and meet some I have to rely on Uber considering my car is down too. I was thinking about moving to a big metro city. Not for women but for more options overall. My town is dead lol. Thanks for expanding
JR-DC1 8y ago
Location is key not only by city size, urban vs rural etc but mainly by cultural mindset. I live in a big city (> 2 million), but the crowd here is shit. Went to San Diego last month and got along with girls ridiculously easily, couldn't believe how fast I could strike a conversation and make connections.
setsuna0 8y ago
So you would rather a good medium of both a big crowd but small culturally interesting and overall better? That'd make sense. I live near philly. The culture I'd say is decent not too sure yet.
ShotgunTRP 8y ago
Hey man. I've got similar issues. I'm gonna shoot u a pm
[deleted]
blackedoutfast 8y ago
bad post. this type of thinking is how guys end up in the orbiter friendzone - they're afraid of getting a "no" so they aren't polarizing, they don't show their sexual intent, and they leave enough wiggle room for the girl to not have sex and eventually "let's just be friends"
you can get a "no" because you fucked up, but you can also get a "no" because you're not attractive enough.
yes, you can fuck up a sure thing and turn a "yes" or "maybe" into a "no" but the way to avoid that is NOT by avoiding doing anything to trigger a "no" - in fact, you should try to trigger a possible "no" as soon as possible. if you're simply not enough attractive enough for her, you want to know that ASAP so you can stop wasting your time.
the way to "not fuck up" is by being confident and having solid frame control. escalate kino appropriately (don't start groping ass or tits too soon). isolate away from people who know her to avoid ASD. use comfort and persistance to deal with LMR. if you take care of all that, you won't fuck it up. if you are doing anything else trying to avoid triggering a no, there's a good chance that you're simply delaying the inevitable.
tddaygame 8y ago
You're listing various ways of avoiding "no". And that was exactly my point.
[deleted] 8y ago
I agree with this. I had a date that went well until I mentioned something I used to like to do. She wasn't a fan, clearly.
If I had just been trying to get in her pants I wouldn't have said it, but I had hoped she was LTR material. Turns out she was just a prude
Peter_B_Long 8y ago
Word of advice: do not screen for LTR until 6 months after she is a plate.
[deleted] 8y ago
If she's a plate she's sure as shit not gonna be an LTR at any time.
sonder_one 8y ago
Agree and disagree.
It is true that most girls are in the grey area between yes and no. Not necessarily because they're unsure about you OR because you have wiggle room to win or lose with your "game" (as much as people here flatter themselves) but because women are fantastically insecure, and saying EITHER yes OR no is hard for them.
This gives you the chance to decide for them.
However, this does NOT mean that you should "play it safe". Women crave feelz, and they get TONS of attention from tons of at-least-somewhat-interesting men. You have no idea. Being "boring" is death. Even if you're actually quite interesting, if you seem boring in the moment, you're done.
Playing it safe will make you seem boring.
Entropy-7 8y ago
Maybe this is a good post or maybe it is shit: I am not going to judge.
What I will say is that it overthinks things.
Maybe it is just my age of experience or whatever that makes me think: WTF?
To come clean, I am in an LTR, but to get there life was much much more agreeable when I DNGAF.
So "yes girl" or "no girl" or whatever, THEY JUST DON'T MATTER.
empatheticapathetic 8y ago
You're talking about something else. You're talking about the attitude and perspective you need to be able to have a better chance at pulling.
OP is talking about what is actually going on in reality and breaking down the fundamental binary decision a girl can make that results in you getting laid or not, and what factors are deal breakers.
francisco_DANKonia 8y ago
This is great and all, but how do I avoid no?
phoenixxxxxxxxx 8y ago
I think the point of post is to provide better perspective on the situation. You will have much better success if you don't have to worry about how to get a woman to say yes. Just assume that she already wants to have sex(which should be the case if you are working on your SMV) and your job is to smoothly create situations in which sex can happen while maintaining plausible deniability.
For example, you meet a woman. She most likely want to have sex with you. But if you say something like "lets go to my place so we can have sex", you fucked up and have turned her yes into a no. But if after sufficient time you invite her to your place to "hang out" then you are smoothly leading her to a situation where sex can happen.