Okay, as I touched upon in a previous thread, I'm storming throgh a lot of the literature here. Involved in a toxic relationship that I'm likely going to end shortly, but wanted to do self improvement first. So, I read the rational male, and really liked it, although there was one thing missing that I assumed would be in the book: why don't we talk about the male evo psych? For example, I remember learning in evo psych that men essentially care only about fidelity and fertility (e.g attractiveness) when considering a long term mate, and only fertility for short term. This suggests, as we observe, that men will fuck any high calibre woman, or anyone that meets his standard, when the opportunity arises. If we take evo psych theory to the same level that Rollo Tomassi did, that suggests that men are at their biology's mercy when it comes to sex, and they WILL fuck what's available to them. Yet despite this, I know many men that are high SMV that have never cheated on their partner.
This leads to two questions. First, isn't it reasonable that if we break down woman's psyche to the same level of a man's, and deduce the most practical conclusion? Second, if many males are able to withstand this biological drive, shouldn't woman be able to as well? Therefore, I agree with the drive that woman have to mate with an alpha, but it's no different than a male's drive to fuck any good looking woman.
When it comes to statistics on fidelity, it seems that we get a FUCKLOAD of variability. I've seen some reports as low as like 10-15% (maybe the researcher asked them when they were in the room with their partner? But that is WAY too low). And I've seen another study, an evo psych study, that said 30-50% of marriages have had infidelity. So that's the highest range I've ever discovered, but it still suggests that a large number of marriages don't have any infidelity. Now more recent studies show that women generally cheat more than men in any one relationship, however, males tend to cheat more. This completely verifies RP and evo psych theory, which suggests it's a small number of alpha serial cheaters, and a larger number of women who fuck the alpha once or twice.
It seems that the main conclusion on TRP is to avoid LTR at all costs, as you will be cheated on, yet the statistics don't support this. Also, if we are going to completely avoid LTR with women for this reason, wouldn't it be reasonable for women to make the exact same argument towards men?
I am asking this in a serious way, and I want good answers. I'm not trolling, and I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm legitimately curious to know what you guys think.
The thing is that I have a strong background in evo psych; I believed the essence of the RP in the past, yet it was overruled with years of feminism conditioning. I just wanted to share that A: we seem to only be getting half of evo psych here (the female side, not the male) and B: are all relationships really doomed?
Another consideration I had was that it seems that the men that are in LTR on this sub tend to cheat on their partners anyway. We know that when someone is unfaithful, they tend to be suspcious of their partner as well; do you think this might be playing a role? Also, I remember learning how narcissism is strongly associated with jealously, and since this is an 'alpha' sub, which is associated with narcissism, do you think that could explain a lot of the opinions? Keep in mind, I unfortunately am fairly narcissistic myself, so I'm not trying to start shit, I'm genuinely curious.
redpillschool Admin 8y ago
We aren't concerned with having sex with men so models about their promiscuity and so forth aren't very helpful. what we do have to worry about, and is discussed in depth is the myriad of psychological traps a man can fall in when hung up on "the one". in that respect there's a lot of evo psych for men. Its this very ability to change behavior to suit the situation that is lacking in women.
infidelity is just one risk of an LTR. Much more immediate failures result from the loss of frame it can create.
[deleted]
Z33ger 8y ago
I'm putting my dick into a glass of hydrochloric acid but I'm likey to stop soon...idk though
remove your uncertainty, purge the toxins, kil the beta
...worry about theory when you can afford to
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
I'm living with her right now, so it's hard to pull out suddenly.
[deleted]
JamesSkepp 8y ago
Not mercy - opportunity. From the viewpoint of pure biology or evolution there are two things to consider. Sex/getting pregnant and raising the children. We will fuck whatever moves and is attractive to us (biologically speaking), b/c it increases the chance of spreading the genes. We don't care about morality of getting a woman pregnant (neither does she) b/c nature/life doesn't care about morality. Nature cares about survival and reproduction. From this standpoint, more "fucking" is better and it's not relevant what a TRP mastermind or a feminist think about gender roles or cultural marxism.
Second thing is making sure the offspring can survive - this is how the human evolution brought us to where we are. Dual mating, breaking down of alpha to beta, securing commitment and so on. Again, it's irrelevant for how many alt-right shamers call some dude a "cuck" (in fact it's EXACTLY how it goes down in human reproduction) - the goal of life is to go on, not to have correct theoretical framework to understand it.
We're not. This very forum is dedicated to increasing your chances of passing you genes. Mere having the knowledge without practically applying it is no different than not having the knowledge at all. Just b/c I know doesn't mean it stops me (or motivates me). You think men are "withstanding the urge" b/c a statistical male, on average has less sex than statistical female. It's not a conscious choice, it's a consequence of being average.
Women have more "systemic" problem with this b/c they have brains wired to respond to emotions more than men (imagine if you lost your ability to control whether you fuck a girl or not EVERY time you get a boner) AND women have much, much more opportunities presented to them to fuck (for various reasons, in short - a woman has to have average-decent looks, and that's much more easy to achieve than have looks, charisma, intelligence etc, tribe status etc.).
We can "afford" not to get into LTR b/c we don't get pregnant. If you would got seriously physically impaired (or have a statistically significant chance of that) every time you fucked a girls, for 9+ months, you would want to have a way to counter this too.
If you remain the top alpha in here eyes, no, not all. The bottom line of the AWALT and woman-shaming on TRP is practicality - you have to understand and accept the fact that she "always MIGHT" leave you for another guy, not that she "always WILL". The difference between MIGHT vs. WILL is in my opinion determined mostly by the personal effort of the man. The less the effort, the more likely it is BUT the "always" part is a constant, b/c there are no unicorns.
I'm pretty sure I've seen some statistically significant survey that said that partners who cheat are the motivator for the other one to cheat as well. Not a big one, bit it does contribute.
The thing is we didn't evolve to be monogamous. If we did, we would pairbond to the first woman or man you fucked and remain sexually uninterested in other for rest of our lives. This is clearly not the case. We evolved to pass on the strongest genes, hence the hypergamy, the competition, the jealousy etc.
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
Fantastic response man, cheers.
[deleted]
[deleted] 8y ago
Don't wait to end your relationship; do it now.
As for the infidelity figures on marriage you looked at the general numbers. The numbers get way worse when infidelity is suspected.
We do deal with male evopsych, but it's normally to do with business and every day social dealings since most of us don't fuck men and we don't have to think of it much since we live it every day.
Seriously though, dtb.
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
Do you have any sources for this?
[deleted] 8y ago
I usually quote an older study from London, but here is one from 03 in the US ( I doubt the last 14 years has seen an improvement in this especially since 5 years after this the economy collapsed) Paternity test had already more than doubled with 30 percent showing 0% match. It doesn't even count the ones that are higher than 0, but not a full match.
These are all people who suspect paternity fraud, not everyone ideas smart as you or me and gets a paternity test by default.
Jenna_27 8y ago
Good questions!!!!
When I first found this site I admit I got defensive about the AWALT thing. As a woman who has been in many LTR's I have never cheated or even been close to cheating on a man. I would feel like I was killing someone or would feel like a whore. Morally not capable of doing it. Also I know many other women who would never cheat for the same reasons.
So first reaction was AWALT? What that can't be true!
But AWALT doesn't mean all women will always do the same thing it just means that we have the propensity or tendency to do certain things under certain conditions.
The more I thought about it though the more I realized that I would never cheat for moral reasons but what I would do and HAVE done.....is just leave a man for being too beta for an alpha. In other words I have ended the relationship with the beta and then found someone with more of alpha traits. No "cheating" but it still sucked for the men. If I am understanding correctly this is branch swinging which is still horrible for the man.
In hindsight, I obviously had no idea what I was doing or why I was doing it. It always felt horrible because I felt like I was leaving a guy who was very "nice"...... knowing what I do now about TRP philosophy I could have salvaged those relationships if I were able to communicate what I was feeling or been able to tell the guy: I want you to take charge or be more xyz or fuck me harder or whatever and I would I have worked on being more submissive.
It seems like there are tons of betas here who have become alpha using the strategies learned here. It is all just human nature. Neither men or women are perfect, and we can all benefit from understanding our potential downfalls and working on self awareness/improvement.
I think there are many women that will never CHEAT because their moral conscious would not allow them to do it but they would branch swing and not think of it the same way.
One other thing to keep in mind is that once a woman has a man's children I would say it is highly unlikely for her to cheat on him. I doubt the same would go for men cheating on the mother of his children but I could be wrong, these are just my observations.
Thoughts anyone?
vengefully_yours 8y ago
Not in my experience. Having been in the military and lived in other cultures, she will still branch swing and or cheat despite having kids. The majority of girls are shortsighted, they only see the right now, and care nothing of the consequences their actions will have. Leave a man on a whim, end up being a cumdumpster getting pumped and dumped until she settles for a beta loser that she still cheats on. I've seen it happen a few hundred times. Give her opportunity and plausible deniability and she will cheat, unless she would guilt herself to death like you say you would. I've fucked lots of married moms, they're easier to be honest.
My oldest girl is 45. Has a good job, didn't need child support, but kicked the father out ten years ago because dude was a leech. She earned, he fucked around wasting money. I had an ex wife like that and it's not something you enjoy living with, so I was glad the bitch was gone. How did she get hooked up with a loser? Girls can't tell a loser from an alpha, but men can easily. It looks the same to you, but you can spot an easy girl faster than we can.
The most amusing thing to me is that she decided to meet me because I was exactly the type of man she would've said no to before. Rough hands, well spoken, not overly tall, yet highly opinionated and outspoken. She says she is happier than she ever has been, and works her ass off to keep me coming back. She knows I have options, she sees the girls half her age eye fucking me, she also knows I'll end it if she fucks it up. Girls don't know what they want, but what they want is a red pill man.
Jenna_27 8y ago
Damn that is sad.
I'd say a woman would have to already have some majorly whoreish tendencies and insecurity to do that but there are probably more women like that out in the world than I realize. Plus women would hide that from other women so we don't see it.
It should go against her nature as a mom....putting her children, their security and stability first should be the natural priority. Very sad.
If a mom is able to do that there is probably not much she won't do.
NeoreactionSafe 8y ago
You identified this correctly.
In a woman's mind "cheating" implies doing something upon which you can be blamed so it's an aversion to consequences.
A man will see the world as objective reality, so if there is a contract that has rules that exist in the objective world he expects those involved to obey the rules even when it doesn't feel good.
A branch swing is a psychological breaking of a code of honor in the man's view and before feminism a man would defend his honor, so an attempt at a branch swing by a woman would require a duel between those men. (it wasn't done often because of the risks involved) You were seen as a "Cad" if you slept with another man's wife... a "Chad Thundercock".
Modern cuckolding gives women the license to do anything.
Jenna_27 8y ago
Yes!!!! I feel bad for acknowledging this but holy shit I am guilty and never even realized it.
And all this time I have been feeling "holier than thou" for never cheating and I know other women who are very similar in this regard.
I remember in highschool breaking up with a very nice guy because I thought I might have feelings for another (yes more alpha) male. Did not cheat just told my boyfriend I needed space, was confused and may like someone else and all that bullshit to justify it. In my mind and coming from all of my friends I was made to feel like I was being honest with him so it was an honorable act.
Holy Hampstering. We are monsters.
NeoreactionSafe 8y ago
Yes... you gals can be monsters in the hearts and minds of men.
It's like the old Peanuts cartoon with Lucy and Charlie Brown:
http://movieboozer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/lucy-football.jpg
Two different thinking styles... one fluid... the other rigid.
Snoopy is the one who gets it.
TheRedChemist 8y ago
Why don't we talk about male evo psych?
Do we need to? This sub is specifically about optimising male sexual strategy; discussing female behaviour through the lens of evo psych helps men learn to understand it, but we don't particularly need to understand the mechanisms behind our own sexual behaviours in order to maximise our success. Either we feel in our gut that we have succeeded and achieved our goals, or not.
It's true that Red Pill represents a broader world view of what IS vs what SHOULD be, and it's an angle that I too enjoy integrating in other areas of life, but this specific sub is specifically about men achieving more sexual success. Discussing male evo psych doesn't really come up because that would be like debating the definition of success.
Proto_Sigma 8y ago
One reason we don't stress male evo-psych as much is because most men have a basic understanding of it. Men like beautiful women (young/healthy/good genes/fertile) and will sleep with as many of them as possible if given the opportunity. This is an urge we can resist obviously, and theoretically women's hypergamy can be curbed the same way men's promiscuity/polygyny can be curbed, but in modern society it's not.
Firstly, men are limited by arithmetic. In our lizard brains, we'd all like a harem, but the sex ratio is nearly 1:1, so if we all went for it a handful of men(aka the alphas) would monopolize access to sex and the lesser masses (aka the betas) would get nothing. This pattern can and did occur in early empires, where the emperor and his court would get large numbers of women and have dozens or hundreds of children with them. Meanwhile, large numbers of men die in battle or as slaves and great swaths of them never reproduce at all.
However, in egalitarian societies where men are roughly equal in wealth and power, this can't happen. Women generally prefer to monopolize one males resources and dislike sharing. If a man is very rich or powerful, she'll tolerate it, so long as her offspring are privileged and inherit the majority of his wealth (which is why we have marriage, which is a contract to make the transfer of wealth easier down a family line, and why we distinguish amongst legitimate children and bastards). Most polygamous cultures favor first wives over their successors and allow for far more mistresses and concubines ( who are usually from lower ends of the status spectrum and are even in their lesser status still elevated comparatively) than other, competing legitimate wives.
Monogamy is a compromise based on males' and females' differing strategy and the difficulty of raising children. Women want the best man but will settle for the best they can get, sharing resources in order to raise a relatively expensive child. Men want every hot woman they can get their hands on but will settle on one and provide provisioning, comfort and support for their access (aka the beta strategy). This is the framework from which monogamy is birthed.
However, the incentive to cheat remains on both sides. Men( if left to their instincts alone) will take any chance they can get to sleep with other women, and women will take any chance they can to sleep with a better man and bear his children while cuckolding her provider. And, cuckolding is far more common than polygamy. At least 1/10 children were fathered by a man different than the one they were raised by according to modern studies.
However, societies are built around marriage, and cheating undermines it, female cheating especially so, so most ancient societies created rules and taboos to prevent such behavior.
Male 'misconduct' is still very much recognized and penalized in the modern world. If a man cheats on his wife he's a pariah and loses at least half his shit, and women make no secret of disdaining cheaters as scum. However, the female predilection for hypergamy is either ignored or tacitly encouraged in modern society, with women seen as wonderful angels that can do no wrong, don't need no man and as sexually liberated rather than promiscuous. Without the previously existing restraints on hypergamy ( social ostracism and financial ruin at the least and legal penalties or death at the worst) women are free to follow their ideal strategy, where as men are still restrained to some extent by society and numerical reality.
Thus, as hypergamy is the more important force to consider in the current sexual market place, and is being flatly denied as existing by most mainstream culture (aka the blue pill) we here at the red pill focus on understanding and studying it above our nature. Also, this sub is largely devoted to the study of female sexuality as an instruction manual to bone chicks, and as most of us are uninterested in utilizing male sexual quirks in the same way, save to conquer and understand ourselves, we spend less time on it.
TL;DR The Red Pill in 8 paragraphs
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
Thanks for the helpful reply man, it was a good review of evo-psych. I liked that one paragraph the most. Cheers.
This is probably the best reply I've read on TRP.
wheresMYsteakAt 8y ago
This only got 6 upvotes and it's been up for a day?
RatioRegnum 8y ago
First, If your LTR is toxic, one of the best self-improvement things you can do is end it. That said, get your ducks in order first. Sounds like you're on this.
Second, AWALT applies only in the way that All Guns Are Loaded applies. We know that in reality most guns are usually unloaded, but we treat them as always loaded because the consequences for being wrong can be lethal. Once a particular gun has been proven unloaded, you can take it apart, clean it, point it at someone in a training exercise, whatever. Humans have the capacity to cheat, just as they have the capacity to murder. That doesn't mean they all will. As Reagan used to quote the Russians - doveryai no proveryai.
Third, so far as LTR and even marriage goes. We are a slightly polygynous species with a strong tendancy to pair bond. Even Ghengis Khan had Borta, who he loved with abiding passion - at least enough to go to war to get her back from the Merkits when they kidnapped her, to take her possibly illegitimate son as his own, and to make her his only empress - even as he took several other wives, and impregnated a measurable percentage of the countless thousands of women his armies captured. There are a lot of tangible benefits to LTR/marriage - so long as you can avoid the pitfalls.
Bottom line - unicorns may not exist, but if they do they mate with other unicorns. Become a unicorn, if you can. Even if you don't find your mate, you'll find a lot of mares attracted to your horn.
[deleted] 8y ago
What would a male unicorn be? In particular, does n-count or r-count (number of past serious relationships/LTRs) matter?
RatioRegnum 8y ago
The male unicorn is muscled, devastatingly handsome, stylish, fantastically wealthy, expert-level talented in multiple fields, universally respected, sexually dangerous, and very well hung. He is socially polished, but scratch that veneer and he can be brutal, even cruel. Get deeper inside and you will find he has a fatal vulnerability that only the innocent love of a particular woman can heal.
Their natural habitat is romance novels, but they can also be found in the daydreams of schoolgirls and desperate housewives alike.
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
Fantastic response, and I like the analogy. Cheers.
kaane 8y ago
This is ojlne of the best comments that i have read on tRP
You should write a post on this thinking
RatioRegnum 8y ago
I will at some point, but I'm a brand-new contributor and so need to gain enough karma before I can do more than comment. Thanks for the upvote though, it brings it closer.
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
I agree, I loved the perspective.
Jenna_27 8y ago
Excellent analogy for AWALT!!!
MyPill 8y ago
Interesting because feminists actually use a somewhat equal analogy to describe their worst case scenario with men (even if its based on misleading statistics):
http://i.imgur.com/euRh0Kb.png
This makes me consider feminism being a sexual reproductive strategy for ugly women even more.
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
Can you explain this one some more?
RatioRegnum 8y ago
Thanks Jenna. It's not original to me, but sums it up well.
Jenna_27 8y ago
I have tried to explain some of what I have learned here some female friends.
I am 110% positive the fem-nazis will never get it or understand and will continue on their path to cat-lady life. This is the majority of my friends. I think the main reason for this is that they cannot come to terms with the fact that men do not care about their career success or ambition as much as we want them to, and don't want to acknowledge that men prefer loyal feminine women who offer something unique. The snowflake epidemic and inflated perceived SMV is strong. They also can not come to terms with the fact that their sluttiness is not and will never be empowerment....it is sluttiness.
Some of my more traditional friends are like yea that makes some sense...BUT they all get caught up on the AWALT thing, taking it too literally. This is a great way to explain it.
RatioRegnum 8y ago
Men prefer loyal, feminine women, but loyal, feminine behavior is something that a man must inspire in a woman, not something a woman can offer to an uninspiring man, not for long, not for real.
Same thing, sluttiness may not be empowerment, but I make it clear that if there's no sex on the first date, there won't be a second - nor will I date anyone without a professional qualification or in school for one. Double points for STEM.
What's a girl to do but work her ass off for her career, and fuck the man who inspires her desire? If she doesn't her sister will. Feminism has nothing to do with it. Female economic freedom and birth control have cut the legs off the sex cartel, pure and simple. Online porn drove a stake through it's heart, and Tinder backfilled the grave with concrete. Being prom queen and saving it for marriage no longer lead anywhere.
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
I'm not trolling, but are you actually a woman? I am so taken back by the incredible insight that you have. Where the hell where people like you my whole life? Honestly, I know countless woman, many in a friends context, and not once has anyone ever said it like that. I had to learn it the hard way.
Jenna_27 8y ago
Lol you aren't the first person to ask....yes I am . There are a few other women I have seen on here that agree.
ag_blank 8y ago
reeeee a woman in our safe space reeeeee
jk enjoy your stay, provided you avoid sidebar trolling
EpicLevelCheater 8y ago
We appreciate your reasoned participation, but you are not allowed to openly identify yourself as female here. Read our rules.
Make a gender-neutral alt and do not identify yourself as female. I am banning this account.
trp_dude 8y ago
That's too bad. She's one of the best contributors recently.
Momo_dollar 8y ago
I was cringing at the submissive nice guy tone from the 'guys' replying to her, then I came to your post and thought that's what this sub is about. Those guys break and become submissive just by seeing a female user name , imagine how the fuck they are in real life .
nonthaki 8y ago
I watch this cringeworthy trend everyday and sometimes it boils my blood . Even RP aware men are falling blind to the opportunistic nature of a woman. Women only come out of the woodwork when its most beneficial to them. I have seen many such females come to TRP last week, and one girl even posted for attention, but the sad thing is many guys are sucking upto her, thinking she is a NAWALT. Too many women invading TRP now cause RP knowledge is becoming mainstream and conservatism is rising. None of these women would have set foot on here years ago .
Five_Decades 8y ago
Where did you hear this? I was under the impression that for long term mating, men also care about whether the woman will be a good partner and a good mother.
This makes sense when you consider that a man who impregnates a crazy, abusive unstable woman who abandons her kids reduces the risk of the man passing on his genes vs if he impregnates a kind, compassionate, emotionally stable woman. Good mothers who have the temperament and maturity to raise children increase the chances that a child will reach sexual maturity.
Also since child rearing requires spending a lot of time with the partner, looking for a partner who you can stand being around is important for long term mating.
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
I remember the two primary issues being fertility and fidelity for LTM, and for women there were like 9 (this involved textbook beta and alpha traits, e.g. attractiveness, physique, hard working, likes children, nurturing). Then I recall that women's preferences shift during their cycle, which correlates with what we read here. All of those variables should play a role however. I took some courses on it a few yaers ago.
UrsusG 8y ago
They are able, they just don't have to as much as men, because the penalty is not that harsh due to pussy pass, plus they're experts at avoiding responsibility for life choices.
Do you believe people answer those surveys truthfully?
Women (and probably some men too) will even lie on totally anonymous questionnaires, lest they feel a little bad about themselves for letting the truth out.
No, the conclusion is do whatever you want, just know the risks involved. Nowhere does it say 'don't LTR'.
TRP is pretty big on 'don't marry' but even that's not 100% unanimous, because some
foolsguys still have hope.I don't think that's the main argument against LTRs.
It's more 'avoid LTR because the quality of the relationship and your sex life will go to shit', or, more generally 'LTR is hard mode'. Being cheated on is only part of the issue.
tl,dr: TRP is not unanimous.
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
Fantastic response man, I appreciate it. I agree that when a man cheats, it's because he was thinking with his dick, but when a woman cheats she somehow becomes the victim and is supported, and if married, gets half his shit.
I agree on the survey point. I think infidelity rates are probably near 70% per partner. Thanks
vengefully_yours 8y ago
Yeah it's not don't avoid the ltr, it's more go in knowing what can happen and what to do. Don't ever expect it to last the rest of your life.
RedPillFusion 8y ago
Cognitive dissonance is muuuuch easier to deal with when you can rationalize away reality and responsibility. Remember, their actual "reality" is being regurgitated to them by their own evo psych. The feelz in the here and now. If the rationalization is believable enough, they've performed inception on themselves better than DiCaprio ever could. And they do. All of them. Much of the time.
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
Fair enough, I didn't mean to bunch everyone together.
riverraider69 8y ago
Comes from basic risk management, I guess (disclaimer: evo psych makes it stupidly easy to explain anything, if you're not careful).
Less than 1/3 of living men reproduced. If a guy has a long term mate (aka wife), his chances shoot to over 90%. If he sleeps around, on the other hand:
risks harm from competition
diverts resources from taking care of his children (born or unborn)
Lots of risk for a rather small payoff - a few hurried copulations which may not give any offspring, and which offspring he won't be able to provide for anyways.
Of course, if he's in a context in which he can safely mate with someone else's wife... the math changes.
tl;dr: 90% is much bigger than 30%, better not fuck it up.
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
Actually I have some data to add to this. In lower income families, women cheat more; in higher income, men cheat more. This is because there's less female incentive to be faithful with less resources, and the high resources male has more access to women.
ag_blank 8y ago
Another example on social drives overriding biological drives
We have a neocortex for a reason
related: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4084861/
cashmoney_x 8y ago
"Involved in a toxic relationship that I'm likely going to end shortly, but wanted to do self improvement first."
Fear of being alone- conquer that or you'll always be fucked.
[deleted] 8y ago
90 percent of the evolutionary psychology discussed in TRP is based on nothing but conjecture and broscience. There's definitely value in some of the perspectives you can find in TRP, but always remember to not believe everything you read.
[deleted] 8y ago
You can have an LTR if you want. What we say is do not get married. Do not sign up for the unknown mystery contract that the state runs that ties all of your wealth and future wealth (your time, body, and mind) to one woman who has zero, zilch, none and no responsibilities back to you. Marriage gives you nothing at all while having the potential to turn you into a literal slave and society at large does not care. Because men do not have an in group preference but rather an out group preference for women.
We also tell men who want an LTR that they must always be able to replace that girl with a new one. By keeping up your L/M/S and continuing to run game and generate preselection, which is called dread once you are inside an LTR. And quite honestly once you've made yourself a top 10% or 5% man, and you've got good game, and you realize that you're only going to keep getting better and better while every single woman in the entire world is only going to get worse and worse then why the fuck would you give your exclusive right to spread your seed to only one of them? I mean a woman's value is her youthful beauty and fertility. It starts high and only goes down. So any one woman you commit to will only ever lose value. But twenty year old girls stay twenty forever.
I suggest you just tell the girl quickly after she thinks she somehow has your commitment that you're going to fuck around on her. That's what I did. She didn't like hearing it and gave me some mighty shit tests but what's she going to do? She can't replace me there just aren't very many highly attractive suave high earning dudes with killer game around who she can snag up to possibly give her two children and raise them. But I can replace her because there are like a hundred million cute young girls with that hole between their legs that I want. So I have pretty much all the power and she knows it. More importantly I know it.
Hmm let's see your last question? Oh hell yes every single guy in here should be working on increasing their narcissism. Go power pose in the mirror, hell do it all the time, and create an inner voice (change your words in your head about yourself) to super confident "I'm fucking awesome" full blown narcissistic shit.
Ostradamus 8y ago
"Go power pose in the mirror"...Fucking love it.
Yumey95 8y ago
Where is the border between narcissism and confidence?
Project_Thor 8y ago
There's Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Then there's Achievement Based Narcissism.
Winners know the difference.
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
Thanks for pointing that out. I've always argued that certain people have the RIGHT to be narcissistic, like if stephen hawking wants to be an entitled cunt, he CAN, because he's smarter than both me and you combined. NPD people tend to be really successful or really unsuccessful (many homeless are NPD, and the majority of felons).
Yumey95 8y ago
What achievements are needed for achievement based narcissism? Lately I've noticed that usually I worry about the outcome of different scenarios in life, but they usually turn out just fine if I do my best. Is that it, if the worry is turned into confidence?
Project_Thor 8y ago
It's all momentum my man,
Find out your purpose, create goals; long term, mid, short. Break it all down if you need to. Of course people have similar goals, the question though is what matters to you.
Now go fucking conquer.
DoYouThinkYouAreYou 8y ago
Read Dostoevsky''s Notes From the Underground. That's a classic, near perfect description of a narcissist.
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ag_blank 8y ago
a clear border no, but you can't deny that narcissism is overcompensating insecurities
MattyAnon Admin 8y ago
End it now. Don't put it off. If you think she's toxic, chances are she's REALLY toxic. Do it now, you won't regret it.
As always with evo psych, this is based on a simplistic "this feels right" assumption. If this were true, it would apply to all male creatures. Yet the animal kingdom shows the full gamut of male behaviour from "fuck and forget" (eg snakes), through monogamy (birds) through to actually carrying the babies after the mother fucks off (sea horses).
People vary a lot. Men like sex for sure..... but we are complicated socio-sexual creatures. It's not as simple as "fuck everything we can" because we are also adapted to fit into society.
Not sure I understand the question, but yes we should understand male psychology. It's certainly part of my input and discussion here at TRP.
Ah, but men carry consequences and tend to be honest and loyal. Part of the female biological construct is to avoid responsibility. So she will TELL you that she is resisting her biological urges, but really she's lying to get you to drop your guard so she can fuck Chad.
More subtly: why would anyone resist their urges? Because they have something else to gain. Remove loyalty and a sense of responsibility and replace it with a sense of entitlement and "in the moment", and you lose all motivation to do anything different other than "what I feel like right now".
It's very different, due to the extremely different social position of men and women, and the nature of how women get what they want. While men have stronger urges and greater repression, women have little willpower and will always follow the strongest option that is in front of her right now.
... yet. You get very different stats depending how long they've been married. Newlyweds vs average vs 30-year marriages (if you can find any) will show more cheating with more time.
Because women are honest when asked if they have cheated?
Female cheating is not the biggest reason to avoid a LTR.
who cares what argument women make. That's her problem, not mine.
men are PAYING. We pay the opportunity cost, we bear the financial cost, we backslide on our pickup talents, we take the biggest risk of our social circle being eviscerated. In marriage (legally and socially), men PAY. That means we have a right to ask what we're getting.
Male cheating directly costs a woman nothing. Female cheating costs a man his offspring (being cuc4o1ded), and reduces her pair bonding. Men are not affected in the same way.
Good. Women let us down in long term relationships, especially sexually. They make huge promises about infinite sexual availability, and then start to use lies and trickery to get us to agree to pay for sex because we feel we have no choice and we try to make our relationships work. Choreplay is a lie. Long term female interest is a lie. If some men cheat to get what they were promised then so be it. If women don't want men to cheat they can start by being honest with us and not doing the sexual bait-and-switch they always do in LTR's. In short: women created the problem, not men.
We're getting reasonably clear on the male side too... being alpha, abundance, avoiding being beta, why men are beta (lack of options), etc.
Relationships are not doomed because they don't exist in the way you want them to from the start. A relationship is not a "we agree to date" like men would like. A relationship has no exclusivity, no honesty, no accountability and no accumulated gratitude on her side. They are not "great but doomed", they are nice little temporary arrangements between a man and a woman and shouldn't be taken any more seriously than that - to believe that the emotions we feel are actually indicative of a true, deep, mutual bond is frankly ridiculous and the statistics on breakups and the resulting fallout back this up.
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
You answered a bunch of my questions, thanks for the response. This was really helpful, cheers.
Jenna_27 8y ago
Interesting..... I have learned here to continue to downplay my career and income. Advanced degree, 6 figure salary/career.
In reality women who are nerdy, book smart are always going to end up with successful careers unless they marry super early. Some will expect that it makes them a "catch" because that what society leads us to believe. If a woman is too focused on that as her "asset" to the point that it prevents her from exhibiting feminine traits or offering unique value I guess that is where the problem lies maybe.
nonthaki 8y ago
Ya . And dont forget to lie to him/Hide from him, your n-count. Its necessary to fool a man, somtimes, to trap him .
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Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
Dude, this was a really helpful response, I appreciate it. I had to read it like 3-4 times to take it all in.
Ledoborec 8y ago
I just think that LTR are not worthy for both parties, but we need them, as we i mean "new society". I would just suggest to find LTR where both parties are able to raise children. Children should have 50% influce from father and 50% and mother, maybe depends on gender of the child. I would allow cheating, but still with 50/50 influence in rasising child, and asap made him independent. And there are ofc exceptions, there can be happy LTR. But thats my two cents...
Terribledragon4Hire 8y ago
Too many factors.
For example there are stark differences on the ways we think about on fidelity between Europe and the USA. That alone is going to affect it.
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
Good point, and even different cities have completely different cultures.
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newName543456 8y ago
Not if incentives to terminate LTR are lopsided.
That's the case since divorce courts tend to favor women and common-law marriage exists as a concept.
Throwawaysteve123456 8y ago
Many people brought this up, and it's a really good point. Cheers.
anonlymouse 8y ago
A man who cheats risks losing everything. A woman who cheats risks losing nothing.
Evolutionary psychology is part of it, but it's also about laws and conventions. TRP factors everything as it is, not in some ideal world.
redjezthings 8y ago
I think this grossly underestimates the evolution as social creatures. Sure the Alpha of any group will have the option to do what they want but there has to be a control that evolved in men so that they can make active social control over who they go after. So that all the non-alphas don't mess with the wrong girl and get their head smashed in.
So I am not surprised that a high value man can stay honest to their women, it even points to the whole oneitis thing as the evolutionary control for a man to stay honest. It feels like half of the red pill is devoted to breaking this evolutionary control built into us.
wheresMYsteakAt 8y ago
As said before you can't really zoom a microscope on a brain and figure out whats going on but the broscience I subscribe to says the man is only really evolutionary programmed to have oneities during the love and shortly after the baby is born as demonstrated by the lowered T during those phases. I think the rest is socially programmed.
I've also heard that after an LTR (although the article didn't say how long) break up, the man's T actually goes up which would also seem to point this as well.