This is a simple insight that I had at some point over the past few years. I honestly have no idea if it will resonate with anyone else, and if you'll even agree with it, but it might speak to someone.
I've seen a few posts over the past several months about how "caring what people think" is actually a positive thing. We don't really optimize ourselves unless we actually do embrace the hard-to-swallow truth that: how we physically look and act, actually matters in terms of achieving success.
I think that's an excellent point. And one of the "red pills" that some high-and-mighty keyboard warriors will argue to the brink about not needing external validation. But who is getting more sex (or successful results in general)? Surely it's the man who cares what people think and optimizes himself for them.
I think that's a fair point and rationally I don't see much wrong with it.
But one subtle distinction that I learned, is that instead of caring what people think, I'd rather just know what people think, and then decide whose opinions I actually care about. It may seem obvious, but it was an important (albeit nuanced) breakthrough I had at some point in my journey.
(Bear with me with the analogy here.) But I see it as a secret desire to fit in as another sheep in the herd. I know that when I was first embracing my masculinity, I had a secret desire to be the best sheep possible. I wanted to optimize myself, and live within the system, being the best participant possible in order to achieve my sexual goals. But when I switched to thinking like the wolf, not the sheep, I no longer had that Disney fantasy. I no longer had the secret desire for comfort. The wolf doesn't care what the sheep think, as the sayings go.
The Rational Male describes how I used to be as:
This is the guy who’s become Red Pill aware, but believes he can make his Blue Pill idealism work in a Red Pill context from the outset of his partial unplugging. As a result, there’s a certain degree of affirmation seeking men of this stripe look for from other men in Red Pill forums. That affirmation is entirely based in the false hope that he can use Red Pill truths to achieve Blue Pill goals.
But we are not just going to foolishly reject the fact that we are constantly interacting with other people and our value is being judged by them.
When I switched from caring what people think to knowing what people think and analyzing what people think, I was able to realize that I previously had a secret desire to be a sheep. That I had "false hope that he can use Red Pill truths to achieve Blue Pill goals." A secret desire to achieve my comfortable blue-pill goals.
I will always think deeply about what other people think of me, and why. Especially men I respect. But I no longer feel obligated to appeal to everyone.
Now my goals are much more selfish. I think about how I come across, but first and foremost I achieve my goals before ever caring what people think. I may use the feedback to improve, but sometimes I simply dismiss someone's opinion of me. It's entirely up to me now. I no longer have any desire to achieve my former blue-pill goals. I will be constantly outside my comfort zone in all areas of life. That's just for me, we all have different goals and values in life.
To give a simple concrete example: if a girl thinks I'm an asshole, that's perfectly okay with me. I'm not going to optimize away from that, if it's getting me the results I want overall.
Anyway, the takeaway is that:
I killed my secret desire to be a sheep, to "achieve my blue pill goals", when I made the subtle distinction to stop caring what people think, and instead started analyzing what people think.
Maybe you'll agree with me and maybe not. Or maybe you'll say "duh, that's obvious." This is just something that definitely pushed me in the right direction when I was starting out learning about the red pill, so maybe it'll help some newcomers.

Lefeudufou 9y ago
Lesson learned: Goals before action
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deepthrill 9y ago
Thanks and I agree. I hope some people understand the subtleties in this post. I'm happy that some of the comments here seem to understand some of the depth and implications. There are always layers to what I write.
I responded more in a PM.
Auvergnat 9y ago
I see three stages of red pill awareness:
stage 1: knowing: Finding the red pill, understanding the message, being mind blown to see how it explains all your past successes and failures, integrating the message, realizing you life changed for ever. Your view of women changes.
stage 2: applying: Starting lifting and applying game, witnessing with your own eyes that it works so well, committing to acting red pill further, realizing your life changed more than you thought at stage 1. Your view of humans changes.
I'm currently going through stage 3 - I'm not there yet, I struggle getting rid of some blue pill ideals. I don't know if there are any further stages. I'm wondering how deep does the rabbit hole go?
deepthrill 9y ago
The best way I know of to address this, is not to get rid of the blue pill ideals, but rather replace them with red pill ideals.
Basically it's a simple visualization exercise where you start filling in details about your idealized life. Write it down and look over it once a week, and fill in more details. It will allow you to realize and internalize that you can be happier with "red pill ideals" and goals. Not just as happy. But happier. Because they take into account all you've learned about human nature (blue pill ideals and goals are fragile fantasy because they, purposefully or not, ignore reality).
And it's not this Secret crap where if you visualize it, it will manifest. That's bullshit. It simply is an exercise for you to see an acceptable future within your worldview's framework. It might not come true, but it shows you at least one future that isn't full of blue pill bullshit.
ex_addict_bro 9y ago
Oh man. This exactly. You got me at:
<3 <3 <3 !
kanyewost 9y ago
holy shit that whole post is so me too
amazingly summarised you should have 100+ votes
maikcollos 9y ago
What is wrong with wanting to get married and have kids?
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ex_addict_bro 9y ago
Wonderful posts. Don't get me wrong - it's nothing new - but still, good to see such posts here. I suggest you read "The Nine Laws" by Throne for more Machiavelli.
NeoreactionSafe 9y ago
Actually a good point.
Chad Thundercock really has a IDGAF attitude and that's why he often fails in other parts of his life despite giving women the Tingles.
The truly successful Alpha will know everything that others think... he doesn't have his head in the sand. But the Alpha uses his knowledge to benefit himself and to those that depend upon him his wealth and power over others gives the feminine side the Tingles.
The beta truly is needy... he really cares what the herd believes because his own self is so weak and invisible to him that all he knows comes from external validation.
Macheako 9y ago
Amen bro! Well good on you for figuring it out finally. WHO you take advice from is incredibly important, but nobody wants to tell ya that shit for fear of them choosing YOU ain't really giving good advice lol. Don't hate the player though, hate the game. Remember we allllllll tryna survive, good luck bud.
deepthrill 9y ago
Yeah thanks, I agree.
I wrote a little something about this back in 2013 you may like:
http://www.deepthrill.com/2013/12/dont-hate-player-hate-fuck-that-learn.html
Macheako 9y ago
Interesting article. Really enjoyed the quotes. If you haven't already you should definitely check out some of the writings of Nietzsche. Hands down he's probably one of the most famed philosophers for his deep understanding of the battle for power.
evolveto 9y ago
Great post! I am a newbie here, but how do you get to know, what other people think of you ?? Ofcourse, the people who matter to you.
deepthrill 9y ago
/u/stythe had some good information.
I find that people generally wear their emotions on their sleeves. I think what holds most people back is their own egos.
You know when the girl is annoyed or creeped out by you. You know deep down when your presentation at the office didn't go well. People squirm in their seats, avoid eye contact.
It's nothing groundbreaking. Maybe I'll write a more in depth post about this. But evolutionary, people have their emotions in order to change the behavior of others. They are upset with you, and show it so you change. (They'd never admit that, but their subconsciouses are Machiavellian.)
Admit it - you know when a girl is bored by you.
The question is: Are you strong enough to accept the truth you intuitively know, and then to use that knowledge to your advantage? Instead of caring that she is bored by you, can you absorb that? Can you rationally ask yourself which pieces of your interaction can be improved?
That's what I meant when I said to know, not care what people think of you.
Put your ego aside. Your ego wants to come up with seemingly rational excuses why she isn't actually bored with you. Your ego will present the following argument to you: "Let's think about this rationally. For all you know, that yawn could have been because she had a tiring day yesterday."
There's nothing scientifically wrong with this assessment. But it ignores the fact that your pattern recognition machinery, honed over millions of years of evolution (but admitedly still a bit flawed), is telling you she's bored.
You know deep down the yawn is because she's bored. This is akin to "experiential knowledge" (check out the wiki page).
Once you stop caring about being the best, most exciting sheep, always "giving them the benefit of the doubt, old chap!", only then can you change and grow.
So TLDR: Trust and then question your instincts. You know what others think of you. You can improve your intuition, sure. But you accept the intuition first, and then adapt to it.
Stythe 9y ago
Lots of ways. There's no specific route. You'll know what people think only once YOU know what you think. That sounds like a cop out but you have to determine first who you are and how you choose to live, and accept it. Once you internalize your beliefs honestly and start applying them to your life and improving, you have a basis from which to judge the actions of others. That basis is your standards. That's when you know what others think of you.
But even prior you'll get gut feelings. You can explore those. That's a good starting point. And always watch people actions. The person who says they're tour friend but never invites you out is a simple example of someome who doesn't respect you.
p3n1x 9y ago
'Obligation indoctrination' is not a quick removal / mental shift.
By definition it is one of the hardest aspects to even recognize or understand.
StoicCrane 9y ago
It's no matter of "caring" about what people think as much as it's a matter of "understanding" how they think to leverage a degree of personal influence over everyone you meet to promote self interest.
Ultimately it's about understanding how the minds of others work to further one's own aims. This is Robert Greene's territory akin to Dark Triad Methodology.
RPFlame 9y ago
There's also another distinction. Before, I would take every person's opinion who was seemed as highly regarded person in general or just admirable as a fact that I ought to follow.
The difference is that they too can be wrong. Their opinions hold higher value compared to other, uninformed opinions, but that doesn't mean that they are applicable for me.
To put it differently, I began living in a non-democratic way. I don't hold "polls" on what to eat for dinner. Why was I doing it for more important things , like what career path should I take?
I started treating things people I care about their opinion say like advices instead of orders. This actually ticked some people off, because they either felt insulted or because it was surprising for me to just not blindly follow through just because I was asking. But I don't care. Do you?
Stythe 9y ago
This is basically my area of focus right now. I've removed my old mindset and see the world for what it is, so I'm learning the best way to present myself to people while being who I want to be.
Old friends for example, still hold a ton of PC beliefs. I no longer care about or believe those mindsets. I initially felt an urge to argue them or defend myself, whereas now I'm finding it's just better to let them indulge in their mindsets and have them reinforce or challenge themselves by asking them simple questions. If they ask my opinion I tell them I don't care or am not interested in sharing my mindset of the subjects. This is leading me to getting tired of people who give a shit about these issues and leading me more towards actionable people who actually do things, or more accepting types who just chill and don't worry.
I also find the upfrontness of me telling them I don't care about these things tends to get them to try and coax me into a conversation, but ultimately leaves them with a respect, interest or focus on me. This is fine of course, as my goal ismt to change their minds. I don't have to be "correct" in my thoughts or actions as long as they work for me.
As an anecdote, I was at an old friends place last night and we were making nachos and watching baseball. The people I was with were big on bashing the Indians because of the "racist" mascot, and I would ask them why it was racist, or what the issue was. They all had a dumb social justice reason, or were bandwagoning the same mindset, while I got a portrait of their character and integrity as people/ individuals and remained indifferent. PC culture is great for letting me see who people are now that I don't care what others think.
NihilistMonkey 9y ago
Very true. Taking it to either extreme is bad for your life prospects and your mental health, but finding a good middle ground is key. To balance the needs of the individual vs the needs of the group you need to be able to discern whose opinion of you actually matters. You're never going to please everyone but you will need allies in life.
NaughtyFred 9y ago
I'm one of the people this is speaking to. As a recovering beta (perhaps even omega) people at this point in my development are little more than lab rats. I observe, interact, test and analyse...but I don't care about them or their opinions for anything other than the information they impart.
For example I gamed an HB7 redditor into meeting me for drinks a few months ago so I could test my own frame of interacting with women (I was deeply spergy before trp). Based on her reactions to me I'm doing better than before. After she'd served her purpose I ghosted her.