There Are No Shortcuts: Thoughts on "Social Proof" | TheRedPill

Your years as a Blue Pill slave were your most unproductive. You laboured in vain, with no personal, heartfelt goal to galvanize your efforts. Perhaps you laboured for the sake of someone else - a nebulous corporation, or an exploitative boss, or a fucked-in-the-head woman who was happy to use you as her meal ticket.

But now as you awaken, you begin to nderstand that your life is yours to live. It is yours to live for yourself. And now that you're finally at the helm, you've got a lot of work to do. There are no shortcuts.

All those years of personal neglect have left you with a meager bank balance, or a fat ass, or poor health...or a soul-numbing unhappiness that's so palpable you once counted the reasons to kill yourself.

Solving these problems won't come easy or quickly. They took years to reach their current state, and they'll take years to fix. You won't get anywhere lying to yourself, or reaching for quick fixes.

Oh sure, around here you'll hear the old adage of "fake it til you make it". But don't grow complacent with the faking part and neglect the making - because that shit won't happen on its own. Real value - from monetary capital to sexual marketplace value - is purchased with SWEAT EQUITY.

It's time to nuke some misconceptions you may have about being a Red Pill man:

Fucking a hot woman does not increase your value.
Successfully reciting pick-up artistry like Casanova does not increase your value.
Social proof does not increase your VALUE.

That last one might be a little startling, but it's true.

Do you know what social proof is? It's a shortcut for girls. It's a way for them to assess your value by watching how other people treat you - when they themselves don't have the time or opportunity to observe you in your element.

Social proof emerges from value, but it is not a substitute for it.

Social proof will get you to her bedroom for that first night's lay. But that image won't endure in the absence of real value. When the tide of hormones calms, and you're lying there naked with her, and with no friends to pump up your image back up, you will simply be the sum of your sweat equity up until that point.

Is your sweat equity enough yet for you to be proud of?

Make no mistake, this is NOT about letting women be the measure of your value. Don't count on the approval of women, or group laughs, or nodding heads to serve as the meter stick of your life's achievement. Women, and laughs, and nodding heads are fun, and that's what you use them for. Entertainment.

But don't mistake good feelings for value. You don't gain any more value from fucking a hot girl than you do from watching a good movie.

Herein lies the fundamental difference between pleasure (good feelings) and happiness (generating value).

The problems in your life stem from a lack of value. Value comes from work, and work is hard. If value were so easy to generate, then being a strong man would count for nothing. We'd ALL be chumps rolling over for the chance to hug a fat chick. Fuck that noise, you're awake, aren't you? You must learn to recognize and avoid the lure of quick fixes, because they fix nothing.

This is your mission now. And whatever your mission(s) are - getting ripped, starting your own business, building that muscle car you always wanted - they will only survive by the fruit of your efforts. There are no shortcuts, motherfucker. Grab that barbell, or those financial reports, or those power tools, and get to it.

TL;DR: Didn't you read the title? There are no shortcuts. Read the post, you silly bastard.

Permalink

suloco 11y ago

Best TL;DR ever! This is something not easily internalized but might just be one of the most important disclaimers ('This is not a short trip, buddy') newly awaken bros need to hear. Great post!

TrainingTheBrain 11y ago

"There is no shortcut to anywhere worth going."

This quote has always stuck with me. I think it is because I had a moment of insight when I first heard it (years ago). that was when my fitness, nutrition, study habits, etc. fell into place.

I removed the concept from my mind that there was some magic pill/powder/technique that would make all of this easier.

I began to find comfort in the discomfort of weight lifting and understood the value of consistency and displine.

I began to appreciate the long nights studying and reading as I knew it would give me the edge tomorrow.

Sleep became an annoyance, I hate having to sleep yet I understand the importance of rest, especially for my body. I need at least 3 hours to be firing on all cylinders. So, knowing my body I only get 3-6 hours of sleep - weekends included.

It was when I accepted these things that the static of my mind quieted down. I then removed other distractions such as Facebook, toxic people, projects that consumed my time with no return.

The result, I have reached a deeper sense of self understanding which in turn creates more self confidence. I understand my self and that allows me to be a better leader, father, husband, lover, and Man.

Find comfort in the discomfort of being a Man in a modern & feminized society. Do not conform, do not choose the path of least resistance, at the same time don't make life overly arduous for no reason.

Redundancy without progress is infuriating. If you aren't where you want to be, then be humble enough to admit that you haven't been working as hard or as smart as you should have been.

Walk Your path and find Your self.

nofapoclock 11y ago

A similar quote that has always stuck with me:

"Nothing worth doing is easy."

theshadowonthewall 11y ago

I removed the concept from my mind that there was some magic pill/powder/technique that would make all of this easier.

Ok thanks. You set me on the right track. The problem is people think social skills or marketing are some sort of magic power you take.

If you read nothing else besides wieght training books, you would never achieve anything. The same thing applies to social skills.

You have to practice, and work on it. Just go out and talk to people, if things did not go according to plan, try and figure out where you went wrong.

I always enjoyed people watching, as in sitting on a bench and watching what people are doing as they walk by, or watch what a group of people are doing. You can learn a lot by just doing that.

Most people when they walk around, they stare at their feet, they seem to be clueless of their surroundings. I have no idea why they do that.

billthane 11y ago

Except, there's a great shortcut between the conservatory and the study. Definitely two rooms worth checking out in Clue.

Nice post, that quote's gold.

HumanSockPuppet 11y ago

Precisely. When working on your mission, a certain amount of struggle is necessary in order to create a sense of real fulfillment. That's where happiness (and value) come from.

My concern is that newcomers are treating the Red Pill like an anesthetic. They're using the techniques to get sex, and it's working for them, but they don't know where to turn once the orgasm has passed. They have not yet discovered that the Red Pill has more to teach them beyond getting laid.

the_red_scimitar 11y ago

I would agree. There's been a huge influx of what seems to be high school and college aged guys, and it seems the majority of concerns there are about shortcuts (how to be more alpha and fuck more chicks right now).

I suppose at that age, other types of validation are even harder to come by, but the obvious one (getting a great education) is never mentioned.

TrainingTheBrain 11y ago

The deeper you go the better it gets.

The goal of life is optimal existence and you can only achieve that through understanding your self.

TRP provides the information, how far you get comes down to how hard you work.

foldpak111 11y ago

The only part I don't agree with is the sleep deprivation. If it's a temporary thing then ok. If it's been going on for months then it's probably going to mess you up. You should always make time for your 8 hours.

TrainingTheBrain 11y ago

Sleep is not universal thing. I feel like absolute garbage if I sleep more than 7 hours, I have no idea what 8 feels like.

I recommend listening to your body and adjusting accordingly.

Shikaji 11y ago

If you dont know what 8 hours feel like, maybe you could try it. Perhaps you would be suprised.

I feel most rested after 20 minute nap, 3 hour sleep or 7.5 hour sleep. I feel tired after anything around 4-6 hours and more then 9. I can go week with 3 hours sleep and feel pretty ok but its not same as full 7.5 hour sleep. My gains are smaller and learning is harder.

Yes, everyone have different sleep paterns, but you dont know what is yours if you dont try everything. He may think he is okay with few hours every day but its just not same as full sleep.

Whisper 11y ago

How old are you? Maybe you're young enough that the damage hasn't become visible.

Eventually, you'll tank your testosterone levels and develop a host of exciting autoimmune disorders.

There's a reason who pro athletes sleep so much.

foldpak111 11y ago

Yeah I'm surprised he doesn't have a permanent cough. Dude must be 19

bsutansalt 11y ago

Social proof does not increase your VALUE.

Because social proof is a result of your (situational) value.

AlphaXpipubs 11y ago

" Fucking a hot woman does not increase your value."

"Successfully reciting pick-up artistry like Casanova does not increase your value."*
"Social proof does not increase your VALUE."*

I get the jest of what you are trying to say, but in the social market place, value is perceived. Really nice, good looking guys that, as you said, are "getting ripped, starting your own business, building that muscle car you always wanted", but haven't/cant -Fuck the hot girl -charm a girl (all the PUA routines are meant to do) -Do not display social mastery (part of social proof) Have low perceived value from a woman's point of view.

Part of understanding the redpill is to 1) remove the self and feminist views imposed on men. To free us from being lowly servants 2) help us to understand how to get what we want - and for many men that is young, hot women.

Remember, women don't sleep with there equal - or at least there perceived equal. They date above them, and that requires Social proof of sleeping with hot women, charm, and having a frame stronger than hers.

http://www.pipubs.com/she-is-not-your-equal-and-she-doesnt-want-to-be/

HumanSockPuppet 11y ago

You're talking about sex.

I'm talking about happiness.

You can't fuck your way to happiness.

[deleted]

[deleted] 11y ago

[deleted]

Fuck_shadow_bans 11y ago

No, subjectivity will influence a person's perception of value, but it doesn't materially alter the value itself.

A diamond coated drill bit will always be able to bore deeper and longer than ordinary drill bits. In the future where all energy comes from renewable resources, no one will likely pay for a diamond coated drill bit anymore. But that still doesn't change the fact that it still has undeniable value in being able to drill deep holes.

That is why you should base the value you create in yourself on your own subjective appraisal. Then, no matter what happens, the things you can do (your objective value) will still be in demand (by you; your subjective price).

[deleted] 11y ago

[deleted]

HumanSockPuppet 11y ago

♂ Bam, you get it.

Newbies are confusing pleasure with happiness. They think looking like a player makes them a bad-ass. They think getting laid is the be-all end-all of Red Pill.

Sex is pleasure, and that's all. If you want to feel fulfilled by your life, there has to be something to return to once you put your pants back on.

You can trick bitches into thinking you're a rockstar. You can even trick yourself into thinking you're the shit. But that won't make you powerful and influential if you haven't put in the work. And pretending to be a pimp-ass-motherfucker isn't a fraction as fulfilling as actually being one.

trpbot 11y ago

Confirmed: 1 point awarded to /u/Ventura613 by HumanSockPuppet. ^[History]

[This is an Automated Message]

Fuck_shadow_bans 11y ago

Except he totally doesn't get it.

value assigned to you as a person

Value is something that can't be given to you or taken away from you. Other people might not respect or care about the value you bring to any situation, but they can't materially affect it.

If you want to feel fulfilled by your life, there has to be something to return to once you put your pants back on.

You are absolutely right. And that comes from creating internal value that you yourself appreciate.

Not every person WANTS to be a rockstar with their name in lights.

Not every person CAN be a rockstar with their name in lights.

Not every person SHOULD BE a rockstar with their name in lights.

But every person can and should build themselves up to the point where they feel a sense of accomplishment, a sense of achievement, a sense of contentment. A man should feel a sense of agency and a sense of self-determination. But saying that everyone needs to accept the materialistic "Whoever dies with the most toys, wins" mentality that society foists on us is nonsense.

Honestly though, if TRP wants "value" to mean something other than what it does, at least define it as such in the sidebar glossary.

HumanSockPuppet 11y ago

You are absolutely right. And that comes from creating internal value that you yourself appreciate.

Not every person WANTS to be a rockstar with their name in lights.

Not every person CAN be a rockstar with their name in lights.

Not every person SHOULD BE a rockstar with their name in lights.

But every person can and should build themselves up to the point where they feel a sense of accomplishment, a sense of achievement, a sense of contentment. A man should feel a sense of agency and a sense of self-determination. But saying that everyone needs to accept the materialistic "Whoever dies with the most toys, wins" mentality that society foists on us is nonsense.

I agree with all of this. It's basically what I was saying in my original post.

The problem now is that we're using the word "value" to mean different things based on the argument we want to have.

I was very clear about implying MY meaning in my original post:

Herein lies the fundamental difference between pleasure (good feelings) and happiness (generating value).

My argument is that a life free of hardship, free of difficulty, and free of challenges creates complacency, not happiness.

Many men find that generating something of value to someone, somewhere, is the appropriate path to happiness - even if that someone is themselves.

But in order to create value, you must endure hardship. Value does not come from sex, or convincingly being something you're not, or other forms of entertaining distraction. Value comes from work.

Fuck_shadow_bans 11y ago

I agree. But that's not what other dude was saying.

Fuck_shadow_bans 11y ago

So either you didn't actually read my comment in it's entirety or you are too stupid to understand it.

From OED, Value: the importance, worth, or usefulness of something.

Diamonds have many useful characteristics. The PRICE of diamonds is independent of it's value, because society is comparing the usefulness of diamonds to the usefulness of ever other commodity on the market. The value of diamonds does not change, even as its price fluctuates wildly. You do not understand the basic definition of the word. If TRP wants to use economic metaphors to explain sexual relations and society, fine. But you are then locked into using economics and economics terms, and not making up your own bullshit definitions for things. Value =/= what someone is willing to pay.

Secondly, you are agreeing with my last point, but again are too stupid to understand how. I said you should work to create value in yourself in ways that you would subjectively pay a high price for. Apparently you want to be an effete airhead like Zac Efron. That's cool. Do your thing. It's going to involve a lot of working out and getting a tan.

On the other hand, if you wanted to be the kind of person who has a real impact on the world and how it functions, you could instead try to emulate Bill Gates, or Warren Buffet, or Lloyd Blankfein. That would involve a totally different style improving yourself.

It 100% depends on your goals in life. If you want to get into trendy Hollywood clubs and bang 10s all day, be more like Zac Efron. If you want to get into Davos, and bang 10s all day, be more like Lloyd Blankfein. Women are not the independent variable in this example. But as to whether being Zac Efron or Lloyd Blankfein is "better", no one can determine that except you.

-1

HumanSockPuppet 11y ago

So either you didn't actually read my comment in it's entirety or you are too stupid to understand it.

It's possible for someone to look at the same set of information and reach a different conclusion. Don't be so quick to start a fight or call someone dumb just because they disagree with you.

Observe the principle of humanity and keep the discourse rational.

the_red_scimitar 11y ago

Well, since you dumped down to ad hominem, and also since he actually made a very relevant point, you are currently part of the problem in having a valuable discussion here. How about editing out the personal attacks, as I find little point in reading past that.

Fuck_shadow_bans 11y ago

A.) He does not make a good point. He makes a tired point that gets repeated way too often and is simply not true. There are just way too many unquestioned assumptions in his statement.

B.) He completely straw manned my argument. He also is incorrectly using basic and key words. That makes all the difference, since that is what we are discussing, "value" versus "price someone is willing to pay".

C.) If someone attacks me, I will attack back. I see no reason not to, especially when on the internet.

the_red_scimitar 11y ago

We'll disagree on on everything. Including that he "attacked" you. Learn the difference between a discussion and an attack. But you won't, now. I'm sure you believe this is an attack. Honestly, I don't care about it further.

Fuck_shadow_bans 11y ago

This shit always comes up on here lately.

There's also a lot of "you" langauge. You are weak, you are an idiot, you are a social outcast. I am aware that it is phrased in a plausibly deniable way, but the intent is clear enough.

JudgeRedPill 11y ago

This needs to be in the sidebar. There were a lot of guys I knew in school that wasted their potential trying to chase some ass and they forgot how important a long term game plan was. It's not easy to hear, but it's true. I've met lots of would-be successful men that fell by the wayside because of it.

the_red_scimitar 11y ago

Thanks. This sub needs a dose of reality, to relieve it from the "how do I get my gf back", and "there's this HB9 I wanna fuck" posts.

sir_wankalot_here 11y ago

You have a valid point, it is pretty hard to turn a pig's ear into a silk purse. If you asked someone who the greatest fighter pilot of WW1 was, they would probably answer the Red Baron or Billy Bishop.

The reality is the Red Baron did not have the greatest number of kills, and some of Billy Bishop's kills where questionable.

No one has heard of Rene Fonck who probably had more kills then the Baron and possibly more the Bishop. By all accounts he was a better pilot and better at gunnery. The reason why he is unknown is because he was boring.

The Baron, Bishop and other aces became famous because they where interesting, they would make controveral statements to the press. Bishop once told a woman reporter that killing a couple of huns before breakfast perked up his appetite. Goring and Udet where famous, and Hitler used them as social proof to gain power. Udet was known for doing caricatures, and when Goring started became one lf the top dogs in the Nazi party, Udet drew a pig who looked like Goring flying an airplane.

Hitler himself used other famous heros from WW1 to gain social proof. Rohm was a WW1 hero and Hitler used him to gain power. Once Hitler gained power, he then saw Rohm as a threat and purged him.

Hitler is probably a good example of social proof at its finest, he never missed an opportunity, whether it was an industrialist or a war hero. The guy did have good oratory skills, but he certainly was't good looking and lacked in many other areas.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/René_Fonck

JudgeRedPill 11y ago

We don't want to follow Hitler's example because of the obvious reasons, plus because of as you stated, his hollow social proof.

-1

HumanSockPuppet 11y ago

Men who obsess over history obsess over their place in it, rather than forging it.

-4

improve_myself 11y ago

What qualifies as obsessing over history? Napoleon read all of about Julius Caesar, to the point of conducting archaeological digs of the sites of Caesar's battles, did he not forge history?

vengefully_yours 11y ago

Richthofen would wait for a straggler to get separated in a furball, eschewing getting into the fight himself. Hang around the periphery and single out planes without friendly cover. Good way to stay alive reall, even if it sounds like a dick move. Many better pilots were killed because they rushed in aggressively. A furball is not a safe place by any means, no matter how good you are.

sushisection 11y ago

There's no such thing as dick moves in war

vengefully_yours 11y ago

Prior to the end of WW1, there were to some extent. The aviators saw themselves as knights of the sky and had a haphazard code of chivalry. Later in the war all that vanished. In WW2 the idea was erased completely. You bet your ass it doesn't happen now, nothing is a dick move.

sushisection 11y ago

That's true. The other day, I was thinking about the era of musket warfare and just how masculine it was. Men would line up face to face and fire these lead balls at each other. Then they would charge at each other with bayonets jeeeezuz . That's a fucking true test of character

vengefully_yours 11y ago

To stand in the face of certain death and try to kill the guys trying to kill you out in the open takes something most don't have. Rushing in with a sharpened hunk of iron and hacking people to death was survival of the baddest. Running into machineguns in human wave attacks isn't the most survivable thing and it requires some sort of fanaticism to do i.

The idea isn't to go die for your cause or country, it's to go kill the mother fuckers on the other side because they are in your way. Not everyone will kill, it takes a certain mindset.

[deleted]

Venkas 11y ago

I get that people enjoy arguing their views and such, but some things you should just read and understand instead of picking at it and over analyzing. I've been lurking here for a few weeks now and its always an excellent written post followed by a guy who says "BS!"

Thank you for your post, it reminds me to keep myself in check with all this RP stuff. I've been reading ALOT (sidebar keeps me busy during lunch at work) Plus the 48 laws of power, Think and get rich, and the way of men. My mind is like boom every few minutes. But I digress, keep reminding people of the bigger picture.

krakosia 11y ago

Your post reminded me of this most excellent post on the last psychiatrist where he takes a look at the authentic value vs faking it

Choice quote from the article:

America isn't obsessed with sex and violence; it's obsessed with authenticity (or avoiding it). It just so happens that sex and violence are the only two things that you can't fake, and we keep coming back to them as the definitive "measures of the man." We can fake wealth, intellect, status, kindness, political acumen, parenting, looks-- there's no objective measure of any of these things, a man can construct any identity he wants, people might not buy it but who are they to say? But a fight isn't a matter of opinion, it is too real.

Also the post is a nice summarization of this great post on cracked about facing reality and improving and creating value.

ubercoolhipsterguy 11y ago

This quote may have been the best paragraph I have ever read on the internet.

The system wants you to fall for the illusion of value because it's a lot cheaper to manufacture and can be sold at an exorbitant price

krakosia 11y ago

Read around other posts on TLP. It is filled with gold.

NaughtyFred 11y ago

Currently reading the cracked article, this is good stuff, this should be on the sidebar

[deleted]

[deleted] 11y ago

Nice post. Especially loved the Tl dr

fififi89 11y ago

"there are no shortcuts"

This is the most dangerous phrase in the world. It's the preferred phrase of people who exploit you. Hard work, sacrifice has a devastating effect on your mind. It takes away from you the will to search easy and effective alternatives.

This is true both on the work and with the women. Women for example make you suffer and work hard for their pussy for this reason. Something which costs you so much must be worthy. And it works. Working hard can make everything worthy in your mind and so you are tricked.

In the work is the same. There are people who have enough money to live that waste 50 hours a week for money they don't need. Hard work have become at the same time the price and the pay-off.

I have understand that in life you must work hard only for getting an higher payoff very soon or fuck it.

GRRMkills 11y ago

This guy is being downvoted but it's pretty true. When you work hard for something, your brain will trick you into thinking it's valuable. It's a bad feedback loop to get stuck in that causes you to waste a lot of your time on useless pursuits because you get good feelings off the hard work, not the rewards (this type of motivation is a good thing in moderate amounts, but as with most things is toxic in excess)

fififi89 11y ago

This type of motivation is good when:

-you had carefully looked for all shortcuts and found none

-the reward is sure, is very high and is near in the future

99% of people hardworking are wasting their time or being exploited. Their reward will be more hard work, in an infinite loop.

Venkas 11y ago

YES, this is one of the things that made me rethink what my parents always told me "Work hard and you will see great results." But I watched for years as they slaved away at jobs that didn't give a shit about them.

My mom will end up working for the rest of her life (Dental hygienist) with no retirement of any kind (private practice).

Dad keeps trying to get to get rich quick with inventions and businesses (that usually fail)

I won't stop until I find or make a job I want to wake up to and provides me the quality of life I want. The poon can wait. (But sooo tempting)

redpillbanana 11y ago

While I agree with the sentiment of this message, I fundamentally disagree with the premise.

"There are no shortcuts" is a useful lie. It's useful because it will get you to work your ass off which is what you need to do in order to achieve anything significant. It's a lie because it is fundamentally untrue.

The truth is that there are plenty of shortcuts. Examples:

Cooking? Shortcuts abound, e.g. using a food processor instead of chopping manually, or peeling an egg with water.
Trying to build muscle? Testosterone injections are a huge shortcut. In fact, there's a study that shows that you'll build more lean muscle mass by injecting testosterone and sitting on your ass than you will by hitting the gym without the injections.
Roger Corman was famous for taking shortcuts in order to shoot films on a shoestring budget.
Having a skilled mentor is a shortcut to competence in any field.
Trying to meet women? Being in the right location can be way more effective than perfecting your game.
Billionaires have found a shortcut to wealth. Do you think they worked thousands of times harder than everyone else? They worked hard for sure, but they also took shortcuts.
TRP is the ultimate shortcut. Imagine discovering TRP in your early teens, and how many bad relationships and toxic women you could have avoided because of it.

Basically, any effective philosophy, knowledge, method, or technology can be considered a shortcut.

Some folks will just use shortcuts to make their lives easier. They can achieve the same results as others with minimal effort and they'll live a more relaxed life, e.g. Food Stamp Surfer Guy.

Other people will work just as hard as others or even harder, but they'll use every shortcut they can get their hands on. These are the mega-successful people like Elon Musk or Steven Spielberg.

TL;DR: knowing the shortcuts can be even more effective than working hard.

HumanSockPuppet 11y ago

I wasn't arguing for working hard. I was arguing for working, period.

If you can find a more efficient way to achieve a goal, then more power to you - as long as it's a goal you're achieving, and not pursuit of some empty distraction that fools you into thinking you're improving when really you're not.

That's what I meant when I said "Fucking a hot woman does not increase your value". Sex is just entertainment, just pleasure.

Choosing a path in life - THAT'S where happiness comes from.

TrainingTheBrain 11y ago

I think you are mixing shortcut and efficient.

Taking a more efficient approach is not taking a shortcut.

Using supplements to lose weight and get in shape, if done properly works and is more efficient.

Getting liposuction is not, you lose the weight faster and it may appear that you have taken a 'shortcut' but you didn't really get where you were going. This is because you never built the mental discipline required for healthy living. You cheated to losing weight and your mind is still fat, so you took a 'shortcut' but you didn't get to the end goal and most likely will end up back to where you started.

redpillbanana 11y ago

A shortcut and an efficiency are almost the same thing. A shortcut doesn't have to have negative or cheating connotations, whereas an efficiency usually has positive connotations, but ultimately it is a faster way of getting you to where you want to go, with various pros/cons for different methods.

You can get rich by working your ass off for 40 years. You can also work your ass off in a more leveraged manner and get there in 5-10 years. Or you can marry a rich dude, live a life of leisure, and then divorce him and get millions in cash and prizes (see Elin Nordegren). I'd argue that Elin has the most efficient method/best shortcut.

the_red_scimitar 11y ago

No, not at all. Shortcuts often get poorer results - but in the end, it depends how you actually define what is a shortcut. In cooking, chopping may be a useful thing to do with power tools, but cooking at higher temps to "shorten" the time rarely gives as good results.

And because YOU arbitrarily exclude negative/cheating from "shortcuts", doesn't do a thing to the more in-use definition which DOES include such things.

I don't think "leveraging" is a shortcut. Fuck, it's basically a natural law, and the term, as used in finance and other efforts, is directly related to it's meaning in physics. That's just intelligent use of one's available effort.

So, I think everything you said is true, but it's also a bit facetious in intentionally missing the point.

TrainingTheBrain 11y ago

In this context the OP associated 'shortcut' with a negative connotation.

redpillbanana 11y ago

Many people associate TRP with a negative connotation. It's all amoral techniques, and which ones you choose to use depend on your personal morality.

the_red_scimitar 11y ago

Many people:

think vaccines are evil
think all medicine is suspect and probably evil
think chemtrails are being sprayed to make people sick/controlled/etc.
believe a huge invisible man in the sky is watching THEM personally.

You get the point. Most people don't get most subjects - they are specialists, if they are anything at all.

TrainingTheBrain 11y ago

A shortcut can be a bad or good thing.

TRP cannot be a negative as it promotes sexual and personal progress for men

the_red_scimitar 11y ago

Of course TRP can be negative. It isn't even a "thing", but is an amorphous collection of writings and other public statements, and a large number of people's ideas about what they've read, heard, been told, or otherwise had information or misinformation given to them. There isn't a formal "thing" that TRP is.

That said, we can easily find many negative examples of its use right in this sub, where people think it's about getting a particular girl to sleep with them, absent any of the personal improvement aspects. And, with such posts, often people do engage in a blind-leading-the-blind effort to advise on how to "be more TRP".

TrainingTheBrain 11y ago

Getting a girl to sleep with you isn't negative if that's a guy's goal. TRP's foundation is sexual strategy and self improvement, raising the standard of the modern day man. The guys who give it a bad name aren't following TRP they're OFP.

I completely agree with the blind lead blind point.

the_red_scimitar 11y ago

That first statement is 100% an opinion. There's nothing factual about it "not being negative", as a perfectly good argument can be made that if that IS one's total goal, one is basically living a sort of faux oneitis. If you have to get that girl, you don't have an abundance mindset, and you get all the ills that go with oneitis.

So, you're blanket statement that people thing it's not TRP is also just an opinion, and is just you're amplifying and trying to shut out other opinions. That's not even discussion, nor is it good debating. It IS an opinion - yours - which isn't shared by a hefty percentage, particularly when over 30. I see it most often with the college crowd.

NeoreactionSafe 11y ago

Interesting.

You are telling yourself what NOT to do, but not really saying what you actually should be doing.

Social Value is a SECONDARY aspect of improving your connection with your inner masculine animal. (Killing the Beta)

The PRIMARY goal is to "Go Your Own Way". (MGTOW)

Social Value is what you gain after you expand from a MGTOW base.

I think you "get the idea" but it's funny how you phrased it in an inside out kind of way. You can be Monk Mode MGTOW (zero Social Value) and be on the road to Red Pill success.

Social Value is like sign posts along your way... it just tells you where you are.

GRRMkills 11y ago

I'll say it again, MGTOW is not a base to build from it is a way to break plateaus

the_red_scimitar 11y ago

Yeah, there's literally nothing I've seen in RP materials that says the "primary goal is MGTOW". That's always seen as an offshoot for men who feel they don't want to play the whole SMV/PUA game.

laere 11y ago

MGTOW is very distorted here, and I have no idea why people keep distorting it.

[deleted]

NeoreactionSafe 11y ago

MGTOW simply means you no longer seek approval from a mother figure. (Beta mindset)

All behaviors AFTER Beta are MGTOW.

Too many confuse "Monk Mode" for MGTOW. "Monk Mode" is a subset of "post-Beta" MGTOW where they minimize the extent of their stoic control to just themselves. It's pure minimalism, a simplification of their life.

Stoic means you only care about what you can CONTROL.

Alpha is still MGTOW but just controlling more things... a wider circle.

Beta -> MGTOW (Monk Mode) -> MGTOW (Plate Spinner) -> MGTOW (Alpha)

...from left to right you go from powerless to powerful.

"Going Your Own Way" is the signature characteristic of being masculine. (the base of everything)

To be an authentic MAN is to be MGTOW.

Men love women, women love children, children love puppies.

Boys respect mothers and seek their approval.

Men love women in the same way as puppies and do not seek approval from them.

A man would never seek approval from their dog, so why would you seek it from a woman?

The only woman a man should ever respect is his own mother. (honor thy father and mother)

...the whole thing fits together perfectly once you understand it.

NeoreactionSafe 11y ago

Summary:

"All MGTOW is not equal... Power grows towards Alpha."

dabrah1 11y ago

Socia value is a secondary trait of success. When your lifting, achieving your goals, and expanding your knowledge, more people should be attracted to you and your lifestyle. I view my social value as a thermometer of how I am doing in other aspects of my life. When I am doing well, there are way more people around me than when I am not.

If your always busy doing interesting things, you will attract interesting guys, and hopefully attractive girls.

NightwingTRP 11y ago

I love the TL:DR at the end.

This reminds me of a piece I've been considering writing on why women use things like social proof and status. It's part of their surrendering of agency in decision making. They can't decide a man's SMV for themselves, they rely upon external factors. His behaviour, his status, social proof, how hawt people think he is... anything to avoid agency.

Many "short cuts" also involve the surrender of control. Men own their hard work. They take responsibility and don't pretend the world is going to do things for them. Great post.

HumanSockPuppet 11y ago

This reminds me of a piece I've been considering writing on why women use things like social proof and status. It's part of their surrendering of agency in decision making.

I would love to read and discuss this hypothetical post.

NightwingTRP 11y ago

It's going to be a while before that's done. I'm currently struggling with a theory piece on stereotypes and how we can (at least begin) thinking about exploitation of positive stereotypes. But it's such a huge topic and I'm grappling with ensuring the thoughts are relevant and the advice actionable.

circlhat 11y ago

your SMV is worthless even if you are a 10, the only thing that matters is your PSMV.

Successfully reciting pick-up artistry like Casanova does not increase your value.

Yes it does, oh man it does, sometimes the right attitude and words are all that is needed.

Value comes from work, and work is hard.

No it doesn't, it comes from smart and hard work, and even than you can easily fall into the trap of thinking just because something is hard it means you should be rewarded.

You should always strive for getting the most for the least, there is no honor there is only winning and if a PUA beats you its because he is better.

HumanSockPuppet 11y ago

I don't think you've understood the point of the post.

the only thing that matters is your PSMV

Only when you're trying to get laid. But once you've fucked, you've got to return to your life. Is there enough going on in your life to keep you motivated, happy, and satisfied, or are you just existing until the next fuck?

You're not a breathing machine for your dick.

Sex is pleasurable, but it won't make you happy if you aren't happy already. That happiness is going to come from other worthwhile pursuits in your life.

Think of sex as a pitstop for a nice lunch while you're on a road trip.

the_red_scimitar 11y ago

I get that a lot of people who don't want to really improve themselves, but want the SMV improvements, are nitpicking on what you've been saying here.

And I've noticed there are two major divisions of people here:

The ones for whom the only measure of success is getting their dick wets.
The ones who understand that is not an end in itself.

The members of one group truly just don't "get" the members of the other, and forever pissfight one another here.

Anybody who's gone on a sex binge for any length of time knows it leaves you with nothing afterwards, and the reasons for doing so are rarely made better.

This guy thinks it's all about which PUA gets the girl. That's his game. And fine, so it is. He's stated in other posts that he believes even the Mods have said this sub isn't about self-improvement, but only about "understanding women". So, he's picked his subset of the available information he's going to use as his echo chamber.

[deleted] 11y ago

"Success is not based on genetics. It’s not based on how nice his car is. It’s not based on how pretty my face is. How small my nose needs to look, whether or not I’m the right complexion. I have an eight inch scar down the side of my face but I have a camera in front of me more often than not. Which just means that if you work hard, and that your work is recognized, then the sky is the limit. So to all the people out there who think they are ugly and everything I’m holding it down for you. But more importantly you can still be a success. For all the people who think, “Well, I’m too short”, I’m still holding it down for you, you can still be a success. Find the things that you are excited about and that you can give your all in and work really hard towards attaining it" - Kai Greene

Aiadon 11y ago

I completely disagree with this crap and even in your post you show that social proof can be tricked. "This guy has the guts to insult it's readers like that, he must be very alpha and sure of himself"