Summary: Herb Goldberg's latest book What Men Still Don't Know About Women, Relationships, and Love (recommended in book threads here on TRP) discusses relationship dynamics at length, from the sobering viewpoint of a practicing psychologist. Most of the book focuses on the negatives, with chapter titles like "Predicting the endpoints of a relationship from its romantic beginnings", "Why women don't apologize for things they've done, while men apologize for things they didn't do", and "When nice guys are hated". The chapter on family roles is particularly bleak. The book ends on a cautiously optimistic note, with a very brief chapter listing the following suggestions.
Body:
- Never act or make decisions in a relationship based on an impulse or overpowering emotion. The impulse will subside and the emotion will change, and you will be left responsible for the decision you made or the action you took.
- When you're feeling desperate about a relationship, you're either misreading it, being rejected, or being manipulated. Healthy relationships do not create out-of-control or desperate feelings.
- All relationship problems are two-way streets. If you feel primarily guilty or responsible, you're being manipulated. In the same vein, if you're feeling yourself to be the victim, you're not seeing your part in creating the problem.
- A relationship with a woman who blames you for its problems cannot grow and will most assuredly deteriorate into a nightmare of emotional explosions. A healthy relationship is known by its lack of blaming and guilt.
- When a woman is rejecting you and doesn't need you, you can hardly do anything right; when she wants you, you can hardly do anything wrong.
- If a woman "falls in love" with you when her life is in trouble, her feelings toward you will change dramatically when that trouble dissipates. Women become intensely romantic when they are most in need of being rescued, and those feelings readily turn to hostility when women feel they won't get what they want, or they no longer need it.
- For women, romance is an unconscious holiday from their fear and anger toward men.
- "What did I do wrong?" is rarely the correct question in trying to understand your relationship. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to figure out the answer that way. It's not what you did that created the relationship problems, it's the process, or how, of the interaction that creates its deeper feelings. You'll never find the answer if you focus on the content or the what.
- Relationships that happen quickly and easily are based on fantasy and will go into major crisis just as quickly. Authentic relationships, given the differences in men and women's process, develop unevenly and slowly. The higher the initial romantic high and the fantasy of a magical connection, the deeper and more painful the final crash will be.
- Because of the actor/reactor dynamic of male/female relationships, the inevitable endpoint of every traditional relationship is an angry woman and a guilt-ridden man. Specifically, a woman with a sense of righteous blaming and of having been abused, and a man with self-hatred and guilt over feeling responsible.
- In relationships, it doesn't matter what you intend or mean; it only matters how you are experienced. A woman's reality is a logical starting point for a man's "understanding."
- Never try to reason a woman out of her feelings, and never try to use detached logic to explain yourself. It will only intensify her anger because she will experience you as distancing and defensive.
- Allowing a woman to be abusive by accusing you and raging at you is not a form of loving her. Set boundaries demanding self-respect and hold them. If the relationship has substance, it will improve. If it is contingent on unhealthy dynamics for its survival and lacks substance, setting boundaries will cause the relationship to fall apart and die.
- If you feel the need to always do things for her and to spend money in order to hold and please her, you are in a bottomless well where it will never be enough.
- After commitment, particularly marriage, the power shifts to the woman and everything changes because she now has the security to become critical and blaming of you and to allow deeper real feelings to be expressed.
- The prognosis for a relationship in trouble is in direct proportion to each person's ability to see their part in creating its problems. If one partner sees him- or herself as abused and victimized and blames the other, no real change or deeper improvement can be expected.
- Listen carefully to the way she describes the men in her past. That is how you will be described. In relationships, history repeats itself. It is a masculine delusion that you can love her better than the men before and that she will treat you differently than she did her past lovers. If she cheated to be with you, it is highly probable that she will cheat on you eventually as well.
- When a woman says you're the best lover she's ever had, your ego is being stroked. Sex is rarely the kind of experience that women can compare men on. Sexual excitement comes from her feelings and fantasies about you, not from your prowess. If the feelings are there, she will experience you as a wonderful lover, and if they're not, there's little you will be able to do to excite her.
- Women crave closeness to the same degree that men crave space and freedom. Intimacy is a feminine euphemism for fusion craving designed to quell her tensions, just as freedom and space are masculine euphemisms for the disconnection a man needs to quell his tensions. Each partner needs to take responsibility of the insatiability of their need and not blame the other.
- If she talks about wanting to be intimate, ask yourself if that means that you can be fully honest about your feelings and still be loved. If the answer is "no," her concept of intimacy may have more to do with the fulfillment of her needs and not with being close to the real you.
- A liberated woman can be known by how she relates, not on what her intellectual ideals or attitudes about relationships are. Toxic feminism is composed of liberated ideology combined with traditional process and the resulting irresolvable binds that they create. A healthy relationship in the face of these contradicting elements may be impossible.
- Just because a woman has a career does not mean that she does not want to be rescued and provided for, nor does it mean that she won't want to give up her career once she's in a committed relationship.
- Here is a major craziness or paradox in relationships: If you don't try to satisfy a woman's needs, you arouse her frustration and anger. If you do try to satisfy her needs, you may arouse her contempt or irritation because you will fail and she will see how hopeless things are. Therefore, it is better for her to fantasize what might be if you only tried (hope remains) than for you to try and inevitably fail.
- Women objectify men according to their power symbols, just as men objectify women according to their physical symbols.
- Women have no greater genuine capacity for love than men do. It only seems that they do because their focus on relationships and personal closeness is usually greater than men's.
- You can have everything in common with a woman, but it will mean nothing if the process of the relationship is polarized. Polarized process erodes and destroys the best content and causes every relationship to seem and feel like the same frustrating ones of the past.
Conclusion: Goldberg's work is very sobering. Those who want more can read some of his books for free at OpenLibrary.

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www777com 9y ago
There's a lot more than listed above. He talks about the dangers of:
as many males get older, they tend to think they know it all like some great philosopher, but in the end, they don't know shit, turned themselves into grumpy old men, and have pushed everyone way so they end up alone.
deeply religious women, who use religion in a manipulative way, stunting any healthy relationship
the hippie/vegan women, who use their beliefs/ideology in a manipulative way, stunting any healthy relationship
women who are really attached to their family, which interferes with a healthy relationship, like the kind that always has to ask her mother or father on what to do or how to handle the situation they are in
single mothers, absent an adult male in her life, will use her son as a substitute, thereby stunting the son's physiological/social growth
edit: it's been awhile since I've read it so what I say above might be inaccurate; correct me if I'm wrong.
[deleted] 9y ago
Here is a quote from another book, The Inner Male, which discusses this paradox in detail:
Skully5591 9y ago
This is so true. Wisdom. Keep your woman on the edge. Don't let her get complacent and think that you'll be there with her forever no matter how bad she is. Scare her occasionally, but also love her when she needs it. Its a fine balance , master it you must. Be an asshole 80% of the time, show your love 20%.
uniquevoid 9y ago
As someone who has recently experienced this I can only feel anger and frustration.
Fuck women, it still hurts so much
Yogotron 9y ago
Tis growing pains. A necessary part of accepting the truth, kicking the pedestal, and becoming a man. I know your pain all too well, but it will pass, and you will be better for it.
[deleted] 9y ago
Don't worry. After the anger phase, reread this and you will actually find it liberating going forward. Women are only satisfied when you are satisfied. Its all about you man, remember that.
MattyAnon Admin 9y ago
To summarise what u/vpsilon is saying here - alpha fucks beta bucks.
It really is that simple. Be alpha and she chases. Be beta and she complains. Although she wants all the beta stuff, she wants you to be alpha. She doesn't realise she can't have both. She can't connect that having what she wants from you means she can't have the you that she wants.
[deleted] 9y ago
This whole thing is giving me a 'Alexander In Wonderland' type energy.
[deleted] 9y ago
I feel your pain brother. I remember it and wasn't there long ago myself. Trust me when I say this, it will subside, and eventually, disappear. You will experience a freshness anew and see clearly again. Give it time and keep going.
UrsusG 9y ago
This should be in the LTR section of the sidebar.
[deleted] 9y ago
Agreed. This is some next level understanding.
[deleted] 9y ago
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[deleted] 9y ago
This leads into the concern over Marriage 2.0 and giving females too much power. They do not want total control in the same way you cannot give it to a child. Women are attracted to power and the fear it instills in them. Marriage law, by its very nature, removes this fear by leveraging the vast majority of the power to the woman.
redpillbanana 9y ago
This is an excellent list.
I've seen this happen over and over again.
The missing corollary: the more you supplicate and try to do things right, the harder she will reject you, and the more you stick to your guns and do what is good for you, the more she will want you.
Related items:
Supplication never works.
This is why so many women are contemptuous of their husbands. They fall into the cycle of being critical of their husbands, which naturally causes their husbands to try harder to supplicate them, which makes them even more contemptuous.
BradPill 9y ago
Hence the attraction to 'bad boys' - they treat women like dirt, yet the women can't resist it/them. He will break her heart, yet she (still) fantasizes about him when her husband tries to make love to her (resenting her man even more).
MattyAnon Admin 9y ago
Agree with every single point, have experienced a lot of them and seen other people going through the rest.
Yes it's overridingly negative, and I think that's realistic given the anti-male expectations of relationships by women, coupled with her expectations of her effort ("turn up if he's lucky").
Men pay more at the start and the end of a relationship, and experience our happiest part of it in the middle (eg after 1 month, before 2-3 years). We've established our value, got into the swing of regular sex, but still have one eye on the door.
Financial commitment is usually men trying to salvage the honeymoon period and "get things back how they were when we first met". It happens right at the point of her waning interest, and committing to being her beta bucks retirement plan just finishes off his lack of options and hence her attraction.
BRENDORVEGAS 9y ago
Yeah, fuck all that work. I'll just spin plates for the next 20 years.
[deleted] 9y ago
But it really isn't work though. Being successful in a LTR is to actually behave no differently than if you were single. Maximize your SMV and do you, and whoever you're with will love you for it. If they give you shit, kindly tell them to GTFO. Pretty simple IMO.
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[deleted] 9y ago
A bit optimistic - it is always a matter of time before she turns on you. She might babystep your sanity down the pipe. You'd be amazed at how patient women get when they want something out of you, we are talking years.
spaceythrowaway 9y ago
Two counter arguments:
Social climbing becomes easier if you have a family. In business, especially, a lo of the rich folks I know will distrust a man in his 40s without a family. Plus, with a wife, your network instantly doubles
rossi633 9y ago
network is huge. learned that when my girlfriend could get cheaper drugs.
[deleted] 9y ago
Look at how fast the world twists and turns, it's every year now. What happens in 4-7 years when it turns the same way every month? Global economics, lack of basic resources, climate refugees, radical religions, new laws, etc.
[deleted] 9y ago
deleted ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.6607 ^^^What ^^^is ^^^this?
[deleted] 9y ago
In the beginning of the book, Goldberg looks at how boys and girls are socialized into gender roles. The behaviors that are instilled by socialization are so deeply embedded that they become defense mechanisms -- i.e., unconscious, automatic, and automatic coping techniques for reducing anxiety and inner tension. They form the psychological underpinnings of an addictive pursuit of social validation. Crucially, traditional gender roles socialize boys away from female behavior and girls away from male behavior. In this sense, they are complimentary, each supplying something the other lacks.
Goldberg's contention is that in today's seemingly gender-equal, liberated (i.e., non-traditional) societies, traditional gender roles have not vanished at all. They have only gone underground. A man will still deal with his anxieties and frustrations in terms of the coping techniques that were instilled in him as a child, which determine the way he understands and experiences the world. And so, of course, will a woman. The content of men and women's lives may have changed, but the process has not.
This can be seen in personal interviews with men and women who have succeeded in non-traditional fields. An interview with a strong and successful career woman will often emphasize work-life balance and showcase her traditionally feminine and nurturing qualities, framing her accomplishments as "women can be strong too" (while still remaining women). On the other hand, a man who has made a name for himself in a female-dominated industry may talk about his fearlessness in going against the grain, his technical competence, and his entrepreneurship. Those are traditionally masculine qualities.
In modern relationships, the gender roles are often equal and egalitarian on the surface (liberated ideology), but traditional below (traditional process). Thus, the modern man tends to find himself in a position where he must overtly treat his partner as his equal, while covertly taking the lead in the relationship.
When a man and a woman encounter problems in their relationship, they are inclined to default to their defensive coping techniques. A man will try harder to solve the problems in terms of his male process, and a woman in terms of her female process. This results in polarization, where the man and the woman pull in opposite directions. They understand the problem differently, they experience it differently, and they want to solve it differently.
There are many, many, many. Goldberg describes male binds in The Hazards of Being Male, female binds in The New Male, and relationship binds in The Inner Male. I can make a separate post if it's interesting.
[deleted] 9y ago
deleted ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.0140 ^^^What ^^^is ^^^this?
[deleted] 9y ago
Please do, this is like crack to me.
[deleted] 9y ago
Male binds (from The Hazards of Being Male):
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Female binds (from The New Male):
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[deleted] 9y ago
Relationship binds (from The Inner Male):
CRITICAL9 9y ago
I heard a phrase from some post a while ago - "there are only two types of women, those who are on medication and those who should be on medication."
I mean...damn. How can you live like this? I almost feel sorry for women.
gonorealover 9y ago
They don't feel sorry for you . They never have and they never will.
Never feel sorry or compassion for women. They will treat you like garbage if you do .
[deleted] 9y ago
"After commitment, particularly marriage, the power shifts to the woman and everything changes because she now has the security to become critical and blaming of you and to allow deeper real feelings to be expressed." This is so true for today, but it has not always been. The traditional view that the man is the head of the house has been reversed. A household dominated by the female is he definition of "hell on earth."
KermitTheeFrog777 9y ago
Sounds like a great resource, thanks.
[deleted] 9y ago
Holy shit OP. The stars are aligned, because I have been looking for material like this. I am soon done with the African author's book on how fucked up women are.