TL;DR- A quick note on why improving oneself as a way of reconnecting with old exes is a really bad idea.
"Don't Rekindle Old Flames"
Over-investment into the downfall of exes and using newfound RP enlightenment of women's true nature as some sort of "weapon" to be wielded against the feminine populace are two of the biggest frame-destructive reoccurances I've seen on TRP thus far.
Newly Enlightened Alphas usually do so well up until the point where they begin to see genuine, positive results i.e. when they begin receiving multiple IOIs from a variety of women.
And once they've reached this point, they'll typically scoop up all the IOIs they've garnered, put them in a little bucket, skip down to Lil' Sally's place -i.e. that mean ol' girl who inadvertently led them down the path of RP enlightenment-, then proceed to dump the contents at her feet and proudly proclaim, "Look how Alpha I am!"
Unfortunately for them, perception is collectively garnered and not circumstantially so.
Lil' Sally may notice the great strides of improvement this shiny new Enlightened Alpha has made. She might even be impressed by them.
And yet, the Enlightened Alpha's Beta past is not lost on her.
Women judge SMV based upon the good traits AND the bad traits they've perceived within him. She'll recall every beta trait this Enlightened Alpha has ever portrayed and will constantly hold them against him, no matter the improvements he currently displays.
Past posts have mentioned that even if a fat woman loses all of the extra weight (in turn becoming attractive), her self control still comes into question.
And Why? Because we've perceived her "fat-state" as her normative state; she's been fat longer than she's been attractive, so reversion back to her normative state is highly likely.
In most cases, people will "relapse" and resort back to what they're accustomed to or how they normally were due to the inherent longing for the familiarity and complacency their normative state brought them.
It's through these same lenses that she'll base her perceptions of the Newly Enlightened Alpha's shiny new coat of paint: as both temporal and thin.
To her, whether his "Alpha-state" is true or not is irrelevant; she's constantly remnant on the rusty-scarred coat of paint beneath that bright red exterior.
What's more, not only is trying to demonstrate "how Alpha you've become" or attempting to invoke some sense of lust into women who've previously seen you unfavorably not worth your time, it's futile to it's very core.
The very attempt of rekindling old flames is a counter-balance against the basis of being an Alpha. You're not pursuing them because they're attractive, you're pursuing them to make a point.
A real Alpha wouldn't concern himself with her or their past experiences together, so any outright attempt at "rekindling" or readdressing said past would be perceived by her as a non-Alpha characteristic.
Not only that, some women will never see you as the Alpha you've become. My roommate from college is a professional lawyer, and yet I'll always see him as the stoner who slept through half his classes.
Lesson Learned- Perception trumps all when it comes to the bases/influences towards individualistic opinion.

mrthrowaway413 10y ago
This is probably extremely relevant to a lot of new members, because most join due to the end of a nasty relationship.
I know, personally, that I joined the red pill to somehow make my ex want me again. It took a while for me to realize swallowing the pill means realizing just how humiliating it is for that to be my main source of motivation.
Once you travel down the path of TRP long enough, you'll have no want to go back to any ex.
Hopefully at least
Great read, cheers.
[deleted] 10y ago
Worst. I found TRP searching for some bullshit about how to get this girl I orbited to leave her boyfriend and take me. I landed on some early-days AWALT article and my head spun, but I kept reading. Still took me quite a while before I dropped that idea of her as my unicorn.
A year later she traveled through my new city and I smashed it with no investment. "It's so different hanging out here", LMAO, tingles activated for the first time. Okay I still treat her nice when she reaches out to me, we've traded gifts and chatted a little sports/fitness stuff since, but not like the old days of listening to all her problems.
TRP cake, baby.
EnlightenedViking 10y ago
to hit on the point again. New could be 1 year, 2 years, etc. It took me 1.5 years to get to place where I could actually feel confident in proving how alpha I am to an ex. This post could not have come at a better time.
It's the holidays, one of you might be feeling a little lonely, and think its a good time to rationalize seeing each other.
Don't.
Thanks OmLaLa
prueba2306 10y ago
I agree is relevant not for new members but for members that have been reading and applying this knowledge for some time. I think it's important for new members to have that kind of motivation even if it is not "the correct one".
Most of us arrive here because someone destroy us and we started to look for help how to get that person love/respect us again. We read all this stuff and try to assimilate as much as we can so that person who hurt us see what kind of person we became and be happy again.
For newbies, I can understand their motivation and maybe (just maybe) let it pass for a little while, but for someone who has been reading and assimilating all this and acquired success with other people is not an option anymore; is a sin trying to brag the success you got to an ex or any other people who hurt you... that kind of behaviour is very beta.
[deleted] 10y ago
I cannot agree with this anymore. I used to fiend for a girl, theres a small part of me that would like to get with her, but I really dont care to.
egoisenemy 10y ago
good post, very humbling for you to admit.
[deleted] 10y ago
If you're on here, you were some version of pathetic at some point. Anyone on here who says they were never blue pill is a liar, and anyone one here who says they've completely given up those ways is a liar. Nothing is that straightforward.
Personally, I had zero problems attracting women. Didn't go more than a month without sex since I lost my virginity at 17, but I was a serial monogamist. I didn't have the balls to leave my relationships because I doubted my ability to get a new one. I typically waited until I was reasonably sure I could get another girl. I was scared of being single while other guys ran train on my girlfriend. I was so scared of her moving on. So scared that some other guy would fuck her better, turn her on more, or generally capture her affection better. That she would look back on me and genuinely see an inferior guy. It was really just an advanced form of mate guarding. Enough time on TRP taught me to embrace the, "she's not yours, it's just your turn," philosophy. I'm much, much better now, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't sting to let a girl go and hear she's fucking someone else soon after, but it's a fraction of what it was before, and it doesn't keep me from doing what I need to do.
We're all here working off blue pill tendencies. No one started as a pure alpha, and no one is finished.
mrthrowaway413 10y ago
Thanks, but it wasn't very serious. I talked about it in my thanks post a few days ago. It's gotta start somewhere
HumanSockPuppet 10y ago
Ex-flames are always a waste of time. There's never any reason to dip in that old well.
In the time since you dated your old flame, a whole new generation of young girls have been ruined by modern culture - their fragile egos primed and eager for your exploitation.
OmLaLa 10y ago
It boils down to opportunity cost. Any time spent chasing old flames is better spent chasing new women.
The pros of obtaining a new girl vastly outweighs those of an old flame. The cons are much lower too.
boredgod 10y ago
I'm finding this advice useful not just for exes, but especially for all those girls you had a crush on or whatever. Leave them in the dust. Focus entirely on your new life, and add only new women to that life. The old ones, even the ones you weren't valuable enough to fuck in the past, are a black hole to the material of your investment. Don't enter orbit over that shit even for a second.
SW9876 10y ago
Agreed, but it can be an interesting social experiment. See how people react to your presence compared to pre-rp days.
EnlightenedViking 10y ago
the cons of fucking up with an old flame AGAIN are high if she's a manipulative ho. Dead right, move on.
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UrsusG 10y ago
Agreed.
Basically, in their eyes, once a beta, always a beta, no matter how much you make up for it later.
But it's universal, all people judge like that.
That girl who used to blow guys in the club bathroom but no longer does it for whatever reason? You will always see her as a slut waiting to slut it out again in the right circumstances.
That guy who used to steal car radios but now works a regular job?
You will always see him as a 'former thief' just waiting to fall back into his thieving ways.
So yeah, perception trumps all.
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BradPill 10y ago
Which is interesting to note, as SJW's feel that it is 'injustice' - like a reformed criminal, being released, he now 'deserves a second chance'. That might be true, but somehow we will have that nagging voice in the back of our minds for a long time... It's human nature - which of course is wrong by definition in the eyes of said SJW's, as they demand you hamster it away (like they do)..
[deleted] 10y ago
Emotionally driven personal branding. Same goes with selling yourself and personal marketing. Define yourself at the start as being the one brand, and the rest follows without you trying.
UrsusG 10y ago
Because you never get a second chance to make a first impression
Stythe 10y ago
This is good. I know I contacted my ex as I was learning thus stuff. Didn't want to believe it I guess. The point a lot if it internalized for me was when I saw the typical patterns in her. It helped me take a real close look at what happened, then my whole past. Now I wouldn't want her back, so it works out.
[deleted] 10y ago
I've gotten back together with exes with great success. I know TRP is about generalizations and rules of thumb and I agree that most of the time it's a bad idea but it can be done.
TRPShill 10y ago
please read my comment above and see if it rings true for you
purecyse 10y ago
What do you view as a "great success"? If you've accomplished this with multiple "exes" then the success would have to be the re-dissolution of the relationship.
A form of success you could have been achieving with young ladies you didn't already "know" (double entendre, of course).
musicvita25 10y ago
Amazingly a whore that used to be my best friend back in the day summed it up best
"Once its over, I never go back"
I do this. I get a lot of shit but I do it. I am sure girls always come back wanting more, but I used to be such a beta that I'd cave in.
So as a defence mechanism, I basically block and delete and never hear or see them again. It works if youre a newbie, I also go quite nuclear on these girls if they've annoyed me so naturally I just cut my ties.
TRPShill 10y ago
Okay. I'm going to disagree here. First off, I agree that excessively pursuing old flames is bad and says some shit about you. If it has to do with an ex, you want things to be happening highly on your terms. f you are the best available to her, this will happen. If not? she will never care about you anyways once its done.
First, remember that women have INSANE expectations of men. A lot of these expectations never end up fucking you over because they are situations you wont encounter, such as defending her from four attackers... or coming out of a relationship with no emotional affectation whatsoever.
"What's cooler than being cool? Ice Cold! I cant, I cant hear you! I said whats cooler, whats cooler than being cool? Ice Cold!" - Hey Ya
A woman also needs to believe that she is lucky to have YOU, and that if she acts up she will suffer consequences. If the relationship ends, and she acts up, giving any ground shows her that manipulation works on you. ADDITIONALLY, if you miss her at all, and signs show that you value her more or any other BS like that after the breakup, she realizes multiple things. First, if you still miss her, the hamster determines that she must be the best you can do. Otherwise, why would you miss her? Second, she realizes withdrawing her attention is an effective aphrodisiac. You know who else that works on? WOMEN. You are a man. You should be the exact goddamn opposite of a woman. Some woman withdrawing attention from you should make you
1) Like her less
2) Feel a bit sorry for her because she is missing out on an opportunity to be receiving the attention of a goddamn KING.
But back to the first point. She hamsters that if you miss her, she must be the best you can do.
And why does the hamster do this? Good ol solopsism.
You know who she misses? The most alpha man she ever messed around with, the best she can do. Every other relationship is irrelevant to her, and she knows she could get a lot of them back with a snap of her fingers.
So, she assumes that if you miss her, she must be the best you can do.
A woman needs to feel that she is lucky to have you, the great catch, and that if she were gone you could be fucking hotter girls tomorrow. It's a little insane. You need to be able to fuck girls hotter than her, yet choose not to. This is why I so emphatically emphasize dating a point or two below what you can pull. So long as she still gets your dick hard and is somewhat cute, the level of loyalty you see will be much better thanks to statistics, the hamster, and dread.
What I'm getting at is that you have to be ICE COLD if you want anything to happen with an ex. OI is the name of the fucking game when dealing with Exes. The hilarity is that with an Ex this is harder because of your dumbass rational male brain. There's actually a little male solipsism at hand here. After you've been in a relationship with an attractive girl, if she stays at the same level you will always have some feelings (a little) towards her both sexually and emotionally. You will assume that of the course this must be the case with her too. Of course she will always love you a little, unconditionally right?
Nope. She DOESNT LOVE YOU.
SHE DOES NOT L O V E YOU.
SHE LOVES THE WAY YOU MAKE HER FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL.
If a goddamn otter octopus hybrid animal at the zoo gave her the same range of fee fees that you did, you better believe some tentacle porn is en route.
Fee Fees are king. You are irrelevant in the face of Fee fees.
What I'm getting at is that she WONT love you unconditionally. Men can love "unconditionally" because a womans value is pretty goddamn static. A mans fluctuates by the second, highly determined by his behavior.
Men go back to exes assuming they can skip seduction stages, and that comfort should be applied. No no no.
She doesnt need comfort. She knows she can get commitment from you. She needs DHV on DHV on DHV.
Women do respond to status changes. When the AMOG changes, you better believe the tingles shift from the old AMOG to the new AMOG. The issue is that most mens behavior when dealing with their exes scream that they are faking it, even if they may not be.
___
Lets expand on OI and being ice cold. Solopsism is so useful. Use it to your advantage.
How does a woman gauge mate value, in part? How strongly a man induces feelings in her, good or bad. Indifference is the opposite of love.
The less emotionally reactive to a woman you are, the less she assumes you value her, because that is how SHE (unconsciously) gauges mates.
/u/seattleron dropped an absolutely golden gem "never return emotion with emotion". Stoicism isnt just some cutesy idea we throw around. Its what works. I think as males we have a neurotic desire to understand the whys behind everything, especially anything we are implementing or doing. Being emotionally unaffected by a woman signals that the outcome doesnt affect you.
Wel108 10y ago
So she only returns because she couldn't attain higher? Am i correct on that? Or because through the grapevine she hears and sees your transformation?
rouge_rain17 10y ago
You have changed my perception of reality.
DaBaulz 10y ago
The biggest, baddest most masculine alpha, is a beta to someone. The term "Alpha" is a STATUS in a relationship. That means in a relationship or tribe, or group, you are GIVEN the status of alpha by the other person(s) in the relationship.
I can be an alpha to this plate, and a beta to that plate. I can be an alpha with a buddy, and a beta to some other buddy at work. It is a status that people give you. Granted, if you are an alpha in many relationships, it is likely you will be an alpha in the next relationship (but it is not certain).
Also there are so many qualities that make you likely to be an alpha (e.g. confidence, abundance mentality, strength, charisma, the way you dress and smile etc). But these are qualities, you could have them ALL and not be an alpha. These qualities will increase the likelyhood that you are perceived as an alpha. But in the end, the group, woman, your boss, your buds, or the whore down the street has to GIVE you that status because they feel you deserve it.
Therefore if a woman perceives you as beta, it is hard, and fool hardy to try and change her mind. If you are the nerd with a group, and you start changing, they may not acknowledge your change. They may not care that your stronger, have better game etc. You can have the QUALITIES of an alpha, but not the status. This is why at least some new relationships after TRP are important.
[deleted] 10y ago
Very insightful. Always reevaluate the relationships in your life. Make sure they reflect the person you believe you are/should be.
BradPill 10y ago
Also, being Alpha is not permanent - you might have lapses, for whatever reason.
Trying to rekindle your ex, just because you feel so Alpha now, sounds foolish - women are very perceptive, they will remember your weak spots. It's is much wiser to make her aware of your new you in the company of some woman - hopefully higher SMW than your ex. Ignore her, and see if she comes out to you - if she does, fine. If not, fine. You don't need her, remember? (you're Alpha, right)? Also, trying to impress your ex, shows you don't believe in abundance yet - and gives her power over you. An ex is an ex for a reason.
Wel108 10y ago
So true man, i realized this recently. Great comment
[deleted] 10y ago
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Money_Bags97 10y ago
The last thing I remember my "old flame" telling me was.....your too nice....
Those three words hit me like a train. I physically felt punched in the gut after that but still treated her like a unicorn.
RedBigMan 10y ago
I've been saying it all along.
Relationships are like a river. It's easier when you go with the flow (find new women) as opposed to trying to paddle up stream (going back to your ex's).
[deleted] 10y ago
“Time is like a river made up of the events which happen, and a violent stream; for as soon as a thing has been seen, it is carried away, and another comes in its place, and this will be carried away too.” -Marcus Aurelius
[deleted] 10y ago
I concur, but it's fine to plate them for a while, just never LTR someone you've broken up with.
mrthrowaway413 10y ago
Even then you're treading on thin ice IMO.
[deleted] 10y ago
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[deleted] 10y ago
Yeah I get you, but sometimes you have a good breakup, like you're moving away, it's fine to plate if you meet again, but definitely don't LTR.
[deleted] 10y ago
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[deleted] 10y ago
That's what I mean bro you're looking backwards and you've only had bad breakups with women but there are some good ones. Sometimes you start the breakup because of logistics, for instance you have to move because of work or education, sometimes you do it because she's not LTR material, she's too wild, too dumb, a bad roommate etc. In such cases where the breakup was fairly amicable you can still plate them in the future.
EnlightenedViking 10y ago
I'm going to lean towards stay away if it was an ugly breakup and she saw you as beta. Guarantee you have something to prove.
It could still go bad for you, and then all that hard work is naught
[deleted] 10y ago
Definitely but there are plenty of break ups that aren't like that.
BlueChilli 10y ago
Yup, same goes for any ex's after enlightenment as well. It's easy to say 'just make them a plate'. Harder to do in practice. I've been there and tried it. Don't do it.
The x in ex means gone for good. Forever.
Maybe some people can make it work. As for me, I'd rather not light fire crackers in my hand in the first place.
Batou_Red 10y ago
Only a fool gets burned by the same fire twice
iwinarguments 10y ago
guilty of this. how do i change?
[deleted] 10y ago
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iwinarguments 10y ago
i did. i even moved hundreds of miles away
still think about whenever i go back (my family lives there) if i should try to get in touch
[deleted] 10y ago
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iwinarguments 10y ago
i'm already dating a great girl but she's probably gonna move away in spring and i don't know if i want to go with her so i'll probably go back home. once i'm back home i'll probably send my ex an email and see if she wants to be "friends" then try to turn it into a FWB situation although she'll probably reject both those ideas.
[deleted] 10y ago
Then don't try. It will not be worth it. If a plate falls and breaks, what do you do? Grab another plate and keep on spinning.
balalasaurus 10y ago
You've basically highlighted what I like to call the paradox of Briffault's law.
As we know Briffault's law states that for a woman, past benefit does not determine future association. However an extension to that, and the paradox in question, is that past insufficiency, will always play a role in determining future association.
As ironic as it may seem though it really isn't. At the end of the day women base their judgement on emotions. It just so happens that good emotions have less of a lasting impression that bad ones.
egoisenemy 10y ago
yes, it's intention is based on insecurities. You don't need to prove anything to past flames; the past is dead and has always been.
plsjustgo 10y ago
I figured some of this out. That's why I have trouble finding reason to the hot college girls I see every day who met me last year. The girl who brought me here (a high school oneitis) still has a hint of unicorn status in my mind from her totally-in-character, 'altruistic' way of rejecting me.*
I was thinking of contacting her again in half a year or so when I've improved, despite knowing so deeply how she'll still see me for the beta weeaboo art fag I was back then. *This seems like the true meaning of being strung along.
Anyway, my point is that your post saved me from that non-existent silver lining. I really appreciate it. It'll be some time before I'm able to give back to community like this.
Vaselinee 10y ago
Go radio silent, my ex contacted me just a few minutes ago, and she's hard shit testing, don't be emotional, be cold, really cold, and you'll see the hamster spin, good luck buddy.
plsjustgo 10y ago
She's already tried to contact me 2 months ago on Whatsapp and Facebook (I wouldn't call it desperate but she has never done something like that before) after I stood her up (due to a recommendation from some of the #theredpill mods) from some huge event we used to go to and I didn't even 'seen' any of messages since. I don't know what do about that.
gerwig 10y ago
Completely agree. I frown when I see the posts where the guy goes "I swallowed the pill and banged my ex who's dating someone else". Seriously, out of all the available girls, you go back to the one who broke up with you/cheated on you? I understand the desire to sort of change how they see you so you can see yourself differently, but it's much more important and liberating to let go.
[deleted] 10y ago
I've honestly never had a good time when I bothered to rekindle with exes. It just never works. The worst part is that initially it feels like it's working , but it always falls apart in a horrendous fashion at some point. I'm sure there are exceptions but I'd advise heavily against it
notrustled 10y ago
Not gonna lie, I would enjoy ravaging her pussy one last time as some kind of a petty revenge. That way I could have it my way (or not, who knows). But then again, she's a crazy bitch so that would be a bad idea for sure. I don't need that shit at all.
There's a good reason for us not being together and looking back, I'm glad we're not.
maxbrooksmacbook 10y ago
Not for everything. I'm with an old flame that is only an old one because I went to prison for a few years and she went to college and shit and we fell out of touch.
If you weren't good enough for them and you improve yourself, however, by all means find someone else