I have an old buddy from college - I'm 29, so it has been for a while. We met in the first couple of weeks and became friends.
We were both immature 18 year olds with troubled pasts, but as I gradually came to grips with this, and eventually came into a relatively successful STEM career, got into PUA (which my blue pill friend actually first introduced me to, and I scoffed at) and improved myself, my blue pill friend used his small PUA knowledge to get into a relationship with a girl that eventually turned into his surrogate mother, and who eventually dumped him after supporting him for three years (I also slept with her two months afterwards, which was a dick move, but this was years and years ago, and I apologized)
Anyway, my blue pill friend has moved several hundred miles away, but as he has no other friends except for his ex that he originally moved with when they were dating. I sometimes give him dating advice (which he asks for, knowing my skill!), hoping it'll help to take the redpill and also help him to try to advance his career.
No luck. I mentioned some advice to him that I had used on some girl I slept with. I called her, "19 year old redhead".
He immediately launches into creep shaming - "Wow, 19 dude? That's so creepy, nobody over the age of 24 should be dating a 19 year old. It's half your age plus 7 man"
I go on to tell him that, "Hey, the girl can make her own decision here. She's an adult. And none of the girls seem to mind."
"Well it's obvious that you're taking advantage of their inexperience."
"By besmirching their virtue or something? I'm not even understanding what you're saying".
"You're taking advantage of them."
I ask him to make a logical argument for this claim, rather than just an emotional kneejerk response.
He says, "Would these same girls date you at 30?"
To which I responded,
"Yeah probably, 30 year olds are desperate as fuck"
I tell him that I typically have a policy not to date any girls over 27, as they likely have baby rabies, and that I don't want to have any spinster's welps (at this point I'm intentionally using a bit of inflammatory language because he's acting ridiculous, but the policy is real). I also tell him that I've only slept with one girl over 25 this entire year.
He trots out the misogyny card and says that not every 30 year old woman wants to have kids. I point out that if a woman wants to have 2-3 of kids before she's 40 and take a year or two between them, AND date a guy for a few years, 29-30 is pretty much pushing the limit of when she needs to start. I also Google what percentage of American women have kids before 45 - it's 86%.
I tell him I have no desire to take a risk that dating a 30 year old entails (this is before even mentioning their diminished attractiveness - I suspected that argument would make his head explode).
He calls it "fucking MRA talk" (which I don't disagree with, but that would have been counterproductive in this situation to agree with that analysis - better to trickle the redpill to someone) - I deflect by saying that several of the girls had been ardent feminists, and he responded by saying that, "of course a woman would be fine with whatever you say, she's getting laid" - demonstrating a misunderstanding of how easy it is for women to have sex. I even ask one of the girls if she feels I abused her by fucking her, and text him the result. No budging. Strong emotions don't disappear with logic.
Anyway, you should not take this example as, "the best way to debate a blue piller" - it is certainly not that. I didn't succeed at convincing him, and tried to come at him with logic, facts and reason. Never a good approach when someone is being more emotional than not. This is just an example that even mentioning redpill ideas among some bluepills will get you shamed, and that they're entirely emotionally based. Not that that should bother you, but it is good to be aware of it.
EDIT:
Told the 19 year old that my friend called me creepy for fucking her, after fucking her today.
Her response?
"You are creepy, old man". Hahahahaha.

User-31f64a4e 11y ago
When the student is ready, the master will appear.
You were trying to force the issue. It's really sad, but he may not be ready for truth until after he gets divorce raped or cuckolded or suffers some other consequence of gynocentrism, male disposability, hypergamy ...
TheGoldenCaulk 11y ago
Exactly. Going back to the Matrix for a second, Morpheus didn't just show up on Neo's doorstep, promising him all of the answers. He first tested Neo's interest and dedication, by sending one of his crewmates to "test the waters." After seeing Neo's potential (despite his failure to commit in the building escape), Morpheus then reveals himself, and gives Neo the final offer. Swallow the red pill, and escape his sad "reality," or swallow the blue pill and continue accepting his sad reality.
Had Morpheus forced the issue onto Neo, The Matrix would have been a lot shorter of a movie
[deleted] 11y ago
And most will never be ready either. Even powerful men who are capable of turning their political and business enemies to mush make the mistake of marrying again and again and again...
Energizer96 11y ago
This is so true! I am a young kid at age 18, but when I fist saw this sub, I was still in a relationship. And I really didnt like this sub. Then. BAM. She cheated on me. (I broke up) Then one night, I came over this sub again, and wow. I was amazed.
Thank you RP, I have my cheating ex girl around my littlefinger now, and my life is actually really good now.
Sounds stupid, but it is because of this sub that my life is so good now!
sailorJery 11y ago
it doesn't sound stupid, this sub saved my life
[deleted] 11y ago
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Energizer96 11y ago
Right now it is because I am not done taking my license(Norway) And she have a car, very neat with her driving me wherever I want. In around four to five months, I will cut the contact.
[deleted] 11y ago
Plates gotta be spun. If he doesn't do it, who will?
cocaine_face 11y ago
My initial goal wasn't to turn it into a redpill crusade, he asked for advice on why girls weren't hanging out with him again, and I asked him some questions and gave him some scenarios, and off-handedly mentioned the 19 year old during an example (not thinking anything of it - who doesn't date 19 year olds, I thought), which started the creep shaming.
Rumble_in_the_Jungle 11y ago
I have a friend exactly like this. It's amazing how he can go on and on about "Science!" when it relates to leftist ideals, but as soon as I point out observable female behavior and how one should look at it rationally, he accuses me of being too logical and insensitive.
OakTr3E 11y ago
One of the male weaknesses. Analytical retardation when judging females. Reinforced by societal programming since childhood.
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[deleted] 11y ago
Debating BP white knight types is even worse than debating feminists. There's only one way to get them to see the light, but it shatters their ego and destroys the relationship if they are weak. (Which they are, because if they weren't weak, they wouldn't react as they did).
The only way is to basically hey, look man, let's compare your life and mine.
"At 18 we were identical. Now I travel, visit a 19-24 y/o hottie in each city whenever I leave, pay nothing other than a little time for the sex, and could easily pick any one of them to upgrade to a relationship. Girls think about how they can cheat on you and not lose access to your wallet and emotional support. Girls think about how they can GET me to not cheat on them and keep access to my dick. Do you really want to debate this with me? Look at the results, your code of morality has brought you misery, lost finances, and wasted, abortive attempts at relationships. Your 29 and have literally never been loved out of passion and raw sexuality. My ideological code has brought me, an average looking dude who's not wildly rich or famous, sex that you would have to pay a lot of money for. You'll tell yourself your taking the higher ground by "not being like me" but the truth is, you couldn't even if you tried. You know you never could, which is why you don't try, and you hate on my ideology because it makes you feel better about the fact that you're too weak to even give it a try and see for yourself."
Say that to a beta and you might save his life in the long run, like the course of years. But you'll lose the relationship. Most betas are pretty decent friends and do bring me happiness to hang out with - they are ideologically retarded, but they'd still have my back in a fight or help me out if i needed it. In my experience, unless you are willing look them dead in the eye and with cold, fury just eviscerate their entire existence.... it's best to just agree and amplify.
cocaine_face 11y ago
I am not worried about losing his friendship - he adds pretty much no value to my life, sad as it is to say. If something would help him out, I'd be happy to do it.
I may send him something like this in the next few days.
OakTr3E 11y ago
"Girls have always taken advantage of older guys resources. When you (we) were 18-20, a lot of girls the same age would not-date-you because they could use their beauty to get more interesting and mature guys, even though they had "little to offer" besides beauty. It is the girl who is taking advantage of you (the older guy) not the other way around."
This is something you also could have said. It might have gotten him to boil over though :D But sometimes, telling it from another controversial perspective (which holds truth), can have positive results in the long run. Acutely it might cause massive cognitive dissonance and denial. But the idea has a chance of being planted in the head and grow over time once a treshold of life experiences ring true with the words that were spoken. Especially if the event was emotional ("my friend is a misogynist, wtf?").
Oftentimes a BP guy already has tons of experiences that fits with RP narrative. But they are brainwashed and haven't been exposed to enough logic arguments (logic can work on men ;)) to start reflecting upon if there is truth in the statements made or not.
Maybe he will come back to you in 6 months and say "you know what cocaine_face, I think some of the things you said weren't so bad after all".
cocaine_face 11y ago
The problem is that he's not accomplished anything of note or gotten any real resources as he gets older, so I doubt he'd be aware in the change of social script. He seems to feel hopeless about the whole thing (which he shouldn't be) and let's it make him not do anything.
getomc 11y ago
Unless you've already fucked their girlfriend and are %90 sure they won't do anything about it.
dlc9999 11y ago
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a pill of red fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much Red-Pill Knowledge.
FLFTW16 11y ago
Why are you friends with a loser like that? NEXT his ass.
cocaine_face 11y ago
I talk to him very rarely these days, and mostly to try to do him a kindness. We're in different worlds, live in different cities (about 5 hours apart), and I've physically seen him perhaps twice in the past five years.
Every time I keep hoping he'll have changed his tune, but I've more or less lost hope at this point. My guess is that in not too many years he'll get sick of it and just off himself.
2comment 11y ago
My ass was fully white knight once. Years down the line I want to hit myself as I remember conversations where I was the consummate, youthful dumbass. Maybe you hairline cracked his armour, and it'll take a while for life to rust it from the inside out and fall apart.
It took me a few years to wake up, but I now appreciate the attempts my older brother made for me. Maybe this guy will look back and appreciate what you're saying, one day. And yes, it cannot be forced fed.
[deleted] 11y ago
Agreed. I was one of the worst BP case you can think about. Can't let some bros live a living hell.
I was raised to be pleasant and nice to everybody. Now I'm nice to my bros.
I don't advocate going for a crusade where we should free the betas.
I just say that when a beta asks for advices we should give them to him, like we were given.
Helping my bros out. It's my Disney.
[deleted] 11y ago
The scary thing tho, is feminists and manginas are saying the same thing. "Hopefully, one day he will change."
cocaine_face 11y ago
I just couldn't believe that he would reject the idea that most 30 year old women wanted kids - that doesn't even seem that controversial to me. Or his seeming belief that 30 year old women had more options/choices than 19 year olds.
Or that these relatively cute, younger girls were somehow being abused. Abusing them, by having consensual sex with them? It just makes no sense.
2comment 11y ago
Sometimes when someone argues, they really don't believe or think about what they are arguing, they are just opposing you.
I think he's just jealous as all get out. Be careful of that.
cocaine_face 11y ago
I'm coming to that conclusion too.
He's always had an inferiority complex, and I fucked his one and only girlfriend (way out of his league, but she didn't realize it for a while) after she dumped him and he still pedestalizes her years and years later. Any chance he could use to show I'm actually just using girls and "tricking them" somehow would probably make him feel better about that incident.
[deleted] 11y ago
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cocaine_face 11y ago
Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics.
I'm a computer programmer.
Red_vsBlue 11y ago
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
If you want someone to learn RP, you need to show them why your life is better, you've got to bring them up to your level and show them experience.
You can't simply just throw RP at them. It'd be like trying to convince an iPhone user to buy an Android. You've got to guide them.
justmanthings 11y ago
Amen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory
Law 9: Win through your actions - never through argument
StrikePrice 11y ago
It's kinda nice to see the sub's brilliance fold in on itself like that.
[deleted] 11y ago
Why even help somebody who has no interest in being helped? Unless it's your son?
throwaway-aa2 11y ago
male philanthropy?
Think about it this way... there probably was a time that if you came to me with all of this shit, I wouldn't have even entertained it. There have been things in my life I fought against, and was happy someone fought back and made me see a different viewpoint.
I'll give you a video game analogy... sometimes in video games a person get's taken over by "something", and you have to beat the character to free them of what ever is controlling them... and once you do, they thank you for "fighting them".
The way I think of it, some men out here are in a trance, their full potential waiting to be realized if someone is tenacious enough.
That being said... for something like this, it would be very hard to make that happen....
cocaine_face 11y ago
I've known him for years, and I'm just about the only male on the entire planet (with the possible exception of his father, who is also blue pill) that gives a single shit about him. Spending a few minutes every few months trying to give him advice and lead him down the correct path is well worth it to me. It also provides me valuable lessons - like what works and, like today, what doesn't, to convince people.
Red_vsBlue 11y ago
Regardless of your "alpha" status you can still have friends, the main difference between an alpha and a beta is knowing when you're helping too much.
You don't have to be a dick to everyone around you just because you're trying to be alpha. If you're getting that impression i recommend re reading most of the content on this sub.
[deleted] 11y ago
Are you replying to the right comment? I'm not being a dick to anybody or claiming to be alpha. Are you projecting?
Red_vsBlue 11y ago
I meant you as a person. A statement how a person doesn't have to be a dick, not saying you're a dick.
NoodlesTheClown 11y ago
Your best move is to lay down some bread crumbs, and then walk away. When a person is ready to change, they'll follow the trail.
Frankly, being blue pill is very much so like having an addiction. So many people cling for dear life to their perceptions of reality. Hence why unplugging is often so emotionally difficult for men. It's akin to a person having a personality disorder of sorts; you're living your life thinking you're normal and everybody is crazy, and then one day a shrink says, "Actually you're the crazy one." That's a tough pill to swallow, as is the red pill. So tough, that no matter what evidence is presented, a person will fight tooth and nail to defend their warped perception of reality.
I dated a borderline for a year and a half...trust me on this.
A person changes when their fear of staying the same outweighs their fear of change.
Purecorrupt 11y ago
Societal betrayal is a hard pill to swallow. Because someone that betrays you can be avoided, but society or the concept of it is always there as a reminder.
[deleted] 11y ago
I don't get the associated stigma with MRAs. In general MRAs are pushing equality vs feminism pushing for female dominance with extreme hypocrisy.
Also if someone is convinced for emotional reasons they won't be swayed by logic, same for vice-versa.
StarDestinyGuy 11y ago
Yeah, i support the MRA guys. They fight for real equality, not the "equality" most feminists fight for.
cocaine_face 11y ago
The generally accepted narrative is that women are oppressed by evil, powerful men.
It's utter bunk, but socially very popular. Before PUA or the Redpill was big, I had suspicions that some parts of feminist doctrine were BS when I took a gender and ethics course - basically a women's studies course, thinking it was an ethics course. But I held most of it to be true and actually self-identified as a feminist until discovering the Redpill this year. I still publicly self-identify that way.
[deleted] 11y ago
I'm in a kinda similar situation. Business human relations class covers "wymyns oppresshuns" and the pay gap myth. It's a lot easier to go along with things. I also say I'm deist instead of atheist because it gets people to not give me shit.
Emfuser 11y ago
To the PC crowd (SJWs, feminists, manginas, white knights and cultural marxists in general) they're all the same. They see the MRA, Red Pill, and PUA crowds as the same thing because they're all "out group" which oppose their cultural dogmas, albeit in different ways and for different reasons.
[deleted] 11y ago
Even in anti-SJW areas on reddit here people seem anti-MRA.
Emfuser 11y ago
They probably don't realize that SJW and feminists are under the same umbrella: cultural marxism.
[deleted] 11y ago
Nope, they fully recognize it. It's crazy.
[deleted] 11y ago
This reminds of yesterdays law number 9 :
Win through your actions, never through argument.
Any momentary triumph you think you have gained through argument is really a Pyrrhic victory. The resentment and ill will you stir up is stronger and lasts longer than any momentary change of opinion. It is much more powerful to get others to agree with you through your actions, without saying a word. Demonstrate, do not explicate.
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[deleted] 11y ago
Most blue pillers and white knights actually waits that you do such a thing - show your RP colors.
They are eager to jump to your throat so that you can show to all the girls how much different than "those assholes" they are, how much of a good man they are.
Don't give them the bait by exposing to them RP truth.
[deleted] 11y ago
I read another post that used the term "nice guy his way into her pants," which rarely works.
human_bean_ 11y ago
To me it just seems he's painfully jealous. He doesn't want the competition. He wants all the young pussy for himself. But he's painfully aware that he can't. Or doesn't even try. Or is too afraid of being judged by others. That's why he's so emotional about it.
cocaine_face 11y ago
Yeah the more I think about it the more it sounds like he probably pulls older women - it sounded like most of his women were at minimum high 20s, if not 30s. I doubt he's fucked a 19 year old in half a decade.
Plus if he makes my success about "preying" on inexperienced women, then it means that the only reason I'm succeeding is through underhanded means - that he, ever the honorable, won't take part in.
yeahweewee 11y ago
I don't think you can acutally convert a blue piller to red, i feel most of the people who came to this forum, understood being a blue piller wasn't working for them and disliked their life but just didn't know anything beyond that
srryforthethroaway1 11y ago
correction, never mention it to anyone in the real world, you never know who might be a spy
[deleted] 11y ago
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cocaine_face 11y ago
Yeah, like I could understand if I was 50-60 years old, and it was a personal friend of his and the girl was creeped out and not interested, him getting so offended and calling me a creeper.
But it was a girl I've fucked in the past, who I'll probably fuck again tomorrow, who is, if anything, more interested in me than I am in her.
AntixD 11y ago
when you argue with a fool,it's just two fools arguing
cascadecombo 11y ago
You tried to use logic with someone who showed you they do not want to use logic. He's your friend so I understand why you tried to do such. I would have probably simply told him, if you want advice that works then I'll continue.
CaptainPolaris 11y ago
Half your age plus 7? What the hell does that even mean?
cocaine_face 11y ago
It's supposed to be a baseline rule of thumb for when dating someone younger than you becomes "creepy".
As in, you take half your age (in my case, 29), divide it by 2 (14.5 in this case), and add 7 to it (21.5), which means I shouldn't date a girl younger than about 21 and a half. According to this metric, nobody older than 24 should date a 19 year old, which is obviously ridiculous.
Much like any other "rules" of who I can hit on and who I can't hit on (besides legal ones, because those actually matter), I don't pay any attention to it. It's all about being a force of nature - do you think George Clooney would care about a rule like that? Vladimir Putin?
copralalic 11y ago
YOU DON'T TALK ABOUT RED PILL.
(Sorry for the shouting, but some rules are made to not be broken.)