Why do all women insist on shit-testing, especially when it’s so destructive to the very thing that they say they want more than anything else, ie. an LTR? Here’s what shit-testing is all about and how you can deal with it.
One thing I’ve learnt (both personally and from others) is that ALL women will shit test you, especially in the early stages of a relationship. It’s puzzling at first, because the shit testing can be quite destructive, especially if it involves her trying to make you jealous. It makes you wonder: ‘what’s going on here? I thought women want to have a nice romantic relationship with lots of affection, what's the deal with all these insulting shit tests?’
Here's the deal.....
Women, dogs and children ALL do this. The polite name for shit testing (when you are outside of TRP) is 'boundary seeking'. They are feeling out the edges or limits of what I call their ‘free play area’. The important thing to remember..... they are SEEKING the boundary. They want to find it. They will NOT be happy UNTIL they find the boundary. Quite the reverse, they will only be happy when they find the boundary. That’s the first important point to learn.
The second is that if you do not set and enforce a boundary, they will keep going and the shit testing will get worse and worse until it gets really destructive. Some dogs end up biting strangers and get put down. Kids end up in all sorts of trouble. And women end up destroying the very relationship they were so keen to get into.
Let's start with the dogs. Because the easiest way to understand human behaviour is to simply remember that we are all animals, so let's think about animal behaviour first. Most dogs will challenge you a bit, they may even growl at you and perhaps even bite (softly at first, to see how you react). The trick is to react swiftly at the first hint of a boundary test. A quick slap with a rolled up newspaper will tell the dog where the boundary is. You don’t need to hurt the dog, there is no need to be cruel. The slap is symbolic, not painful and much better than shouting because the dog can’t understand what you are saying, but they do understand a slap. The best time for this is when they are young.
The dog will dip his head in a symbolic act of submission, usually while holding eye contact with you. This is what most people call the 'guilty dog look’, but it's actually not guilt. It’s something more important: its submission. He is communicating his submission. He is saying;
'I found the boundary. I acknowledge you as the leader, you are the top log, the alpha, I will follow you'.
Horses do the head dip thing as well, trainers watch out for it while they are 'breaking' a horse. It's universal. In the animal kingdom, in particular the social mammals, a huge percentage of all communication is all about establishing who the alpha is and what the boundaries are. A dog that doesn’t know who the boss is will get more and more anxious, because the stability of the pack is dependent on a solid power structure. Without leadership and chain of command, who knows where the next meal is coming from or what will happen if a rival dog pack attacks?
A trained dog that is submissive to his owner is a happy dog. For this reason, the best trainers always say that you should never let a dog enter or exit the house in front of you, no matter how excited / impatient the dog is. You need to make the dog follow AFTER you. Again, this is all symbolic. Same with eating. Never feed a dog as soon as you get home. You eat first, let the dog see you eating, tell him to lie down and watch. Ignore his whining. Then, when you are finished, and have had a coffee and a smoke, when you are ready, and only then, feed the dog. All symbolic, but all important.
I have a friend with a really well behaved dog. He doesn't let the dog in the kitchen, and he doesn't have one of those stupid child gates to keep the dog out of the kitchen either (the best boundaries are not enforced with walls, they are enforced with clear rules). This dog is so well behaved that he doesn’t need to be on a lead when out walking. He does exactly what he is told. When I visit my friend, we sit there chatting in the kitchen having a coffee and the dog lies down just outside of the kitchen. The dog will be silently watching us at the threshold, with the kitchen door wide open. You can clearly see that he would love to come into the kitchen and be with us, because dogs love company and society. He’d love to be in there jumping all over us. But he knows it's not allowed.
I once saw the dog slowly push his paw forwards, so that he had just a paw inside the kitchen. Just lying there, watching us, with one paw over the threshold. My friend saw this, and slowly and quietly said the name of the dog while holding eye contact. He literally just said one word, and softly. The dog immediately, but slowly and deliberately (while holding eye contact), pulled his paw out of the kitchen and then dipped his head with 'the guilty look'. It was a fascinating glimpse into their relationship. My friend loves his dog more than anything by the way. It's not cruel to discipline your dog, quite the reverse.
There was no need to shout, no need to smack the dog. The dog had long ago acknowledged who the boss was. The important thing is this: it doesn't matter if your dog is NOT allowed in the kitchen, or ONLY allowed in the kitchen, the important thing is to have limits that you decide and you enforce. That makes YOU the top dog, and then, and only then, will your dog be a happy dog.
The same is true of kids, especially teenagers. The ones that get into trouble with the law and get kicked out of school are the ones who had parents that weren't any good at setting boundaries. It's not good for the kids for the parents to be really permissive, because they will run into issues with those that aren't permissive (schools and police). They say that if you love your children, the best gift you can give them is discipline. It's true.
And the same is true of women. DON'T be upset or disillusioned or frustrated when a woman starts with her shit testing. It's actually a good sign. It means that she is feeling out her ‘free play area’, which means that she is interested in establishing a healthy LTR.
(BTW, She has NO idea what she is doing or WHY she is doing this... women are repulsed by any explanation of their own behaviour that is not some romantic drivel. Women don't understand psychology at all, least of all the psychology of women. This is why all of the best psychologists are men. Because men have no trouble with logic and reason leading them to conclusions that aren't all ‘fluffy and nice’).
Don't be upset when a woman starts with her shit testing - take it as the opportunity to lay down those boundaries. You may have to do it multiple times, because either she is a slow learner or she has developed bad habits in the past. The trick is to employ a gently escalating pattern of discipline with regards to boundaries. Be firm but fair. Don't raise your voice. Smile and be friendly as you lay down the law, like a true leader. Trust me, this is what she is looking for, and if she doesn't find it, she will be unhappy and anxious, and will keep going until she burns it all down.
Trust me on this. There are broken men out there who are living a nightmare, trapped in a marriage where the woman feels free to shit on them whenever they like. It will fester and get worse. You’ve probably all seen or met a couple where the woman undermines and humiliates the man, even in public. Sometimes especially in public, because she believes that this gives her more power in the relationship.
She’ll make cutting remarks about his height or some deficit in his abilities, social status or income, in front of other people. This is a doomed relationship. It will end in divorce or continue in a bitter seething pool of resentment, in which both parties are unhappy. And trust me, the man might laugh it off in public so as to not make others feel uncomfortable, but in the privacy of his own mind, he resents this woman with a vengeance. He hates his own wife. And she scorns him because she sees how beta he is. Which is ironic, because its her behaviour that is making him beta, and the very thing she wanted was an alpha man.
If he ever meets another woman that treats him with respect, he’ll leave. And the ex-wife will be crying into her Chardonnay, on her own, with her cat, wondering what went wrong. She’ll probably whine about how all men leave, how he just dumped her for someone younger / blonder / thing, but what she’ll be missing is that he dumped her for someone that didn’t try to humiliate him. But I digress.
The mistake that men make (and I have made in the past) is that they just say ‘all women are like that’ or ‘some women are bad, I just picked the wrong one’. The mistake the men make is that they don’t acknowledge their own part in the issue. That they never set the boundaries and never enforced them. We can’t blame men too much on this, because we have been living in a Femocracy where women can do no wrong and men are guilty without trial.
When a woman starts with her shit testing, you need to step up and set the boundaries and the earlier the better. She will either 'dip her head' (symbolically) and acknowledge you as the alpha in the relationship or she will fight you for alpha status. The first kind are keepers. The second is not.
Another good point to remember: just as my friend never cured his dog of his preference for being in the kitchen and jumping all over us, you will never cure a woman of her desire to challenge and undermine you. My friend has used boundaries, implied consequences and discipline to solve the issue and so must you deal with a woman’s desire to humiliate you and challenge you.
drkb 2y ago
Its simoly their biology. See who shes at but also low self-esteem/confidence + self-sabotage mixed in. Typing a post that long means youre over-analyzing.
The shit tests never stop from nobody. Deal with it.
Lone_Ranger 2 2y ago
You can over analyse a concept but you can sure as hell under analyse a concept. Of the two, I would say that the more common issue is under analysis.
I would argue that all those women you see wondering WHATGMG are not seeing reality simply because they are under analysing the situation.
If you think my post is too long, then you can just choose to not read it.
mattyanon Admin 2y ago
This is gold
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 2y ago
This is a very well-written, well-thought-out piece of work.
however, it completely misses the boat on what shit testing even is.
Shit tests are unique to women. It is when she is attracted to you, but her innate skepticism bias causes her to doubt that attraction. She instinctively tests it, and your passing of the shit test confirms her attraction to you. Shit tests are actually a good thing, and an opportunity to seal the deal.
From your post:
Sometimes that is actually a comfort test.
How do you tell?
Usually your best bet is to treat it like a shit test. Agree & Amplify is the best tool for that, or just ignoring it. If it works, it was a shit test. If she continues, though, it was actually a comfort test. It's up to you if you even want to pass, but if you do, your best bet is to switch to fogging (e.g. "I can see why you'd feel that way").
On a different note, your stuff about enforcing boundaries with dogs reminds me of some of BluePillProfessor's work from years ago. Check him out. He is a moderator at MRP, and endorsed at both TRP and WAATGM. Switched-on dude.
Lone_Ranger 2 2y ago
Hi Typo-Maga - thanks for your thoughtful (and polite) reply ....as a side note, its nice to be in a forum when people don't shit on you if you make an innocent mistake, rather they just politely provide some info. Appreciated.
Looks like I have been using the wrong term! I went through my entire life experiencing what I thought were 'shit tests' from various women, but I now see that I can't really call them shit tests, because that term is taken, and means something else.
Perhaps you can give me the right term if I describe the issue?
I've met some great women in my day, and had some really great relationships, fallen head over heals with a few women. But the one fly in the soup has always been the fact that the women cannot seem to resist the urge to prod at me with a pointed stick. This can take many forms, but it has this in common - it occurs, like clockwork, when you let your defences down, and its obvious that you love this woman. When you love someone, you are vulnerable to them in a way that is just very different to how you feel about anyone else. You're with me so far?
Cool. that's what love is like. You feel great, but even a certain look can make you feel anxious. She didn't call. She didn't say someting...it can a difficult time. Now, theres no use in saying to young men 'don't be a pussy, you have to man up and stop being so emotional, such a weakling' because love is love. Being in love means being open hearted, which means that you're easy to hurt.
So.... my observation is this: as soon as women see that open heart, they see a dart board. And I've yet to meet a woman that I fell in love with that didn't attack. Can be all sorts of things. Usually its little comments about previous boyfriends. Could be just comparing you to other men, esp in categories where you are 'less' than them (less money, not as tall, not as cool, cock not as big, less successful with women (that's an odd one, when you think about it?? they're boasting about having been with a man-slut/player?)).
Anyhow. There it is. And it always seems to spoil the relationship, but in slow motion. I end up feeling resentful. So I always end up ditching the girl. And she always ends up in floods of tears..... asking why why why? When I look back, I ditched every single one of my girlfriends, and always for the same reason. Because they made barbed comments that were designed to make me jealous, but actually just made me resentful. Not because they attacked me, but because they attacked our relationship. Because they spoiled what had been a nice romantic situation. Why would you do that? Why would you go through life saying ' I hope I find my prince charming' and then as soon as you find him, you start with your childish attacks on his ego??
Like I said, I ditched every single girlfriend I've ever had, and always for the same reason. The ones that didn't make it to girlfriend status, I just ghosted rather than ditched. The only one time I've ever been ditched was when I got divorce raped, but that's totally different. If you give a woman 2 kids, a house and a big sum of money, and then offer her the option of running off with all that PLUS a guaranteed income stream going into the future.....why would you NOT divorce?
Any how back to the point - yeah, what do you call that, what I just described?
Intrepid_Place53900 1 2y ago
(what do you call that, what I just described)?
I call it a shit test.
She's trying to increase her status in the relationship, testing your limits,etc.
Let me ask you, do you set boundaries with the girls early in the relationship? Do they include the areas (hot topics) you mentioned?
If yes, and they still went there, good on you for removing. IMO , it won't get better with age, quite the opposite.
I think it's just natural for women to do this, that's what the boundaries are for, if they don't learn , then you cut them loose. Of course, shit tests can greatly vary , got to cut some slack for teasing.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 2y ago
Hell yeah, dude. You're obviously intelligent with a lot of wisdom and experience to share. You just aren't quite speaking the language yet.
It doesn't help that many Red Pill newbies (and myriad Red Pill detractors) muddy the waters by just latching onto (what are to them) new terms and try to fit in and sound cool. A lot of supposedly Red Pill YouTube people do that.
So thanks to that, when someone else new comes along, someone who actually has value to add, they might be truly confused due to the amount of people misusing terms like "shit test". Another example of this is how many moronic bloopies out there really think that "incel" means "anyone who dares criticize a woman" rather than INvoluntary CELibate.
In your OP? testing and pushing boundaries.
coolsocks00 1 2y ago
This is not shit testing. Your post is about boundaries. These are two quite different concepts.
For more on what shit tests are, read the sidebar articles covering it.
Lone_Ranger 2 2y ago
apologies if I got that wrong - I am quite new to BP. But I'm sure you can appreciate how they seem similar?
coolsocks00 1 2y ago
Yeah. The post is fine, it's just that we already have several terms regularly being used outside of their original definitions, creating murky waters for the newcomers.
whytehorse2021 2y ago
Shit tests are fitness tests... to see if you are a fit mate. It dates way back in women's evolution. If they picked the wrong guy they could die. It's backfiring on them now due to choice paralysis and they end up choosing any guy who knows game(can pass shit tests).
Interestingly, men shit test each other in social settings. We probably evolved it so we don't have weak men in our tribe. It's on full display in the military. My son and I shit test each other all the time.
Lionsmane8 2y ago
But sensei, punishing bad behavior is all good and dandy when it comes to enforcing "soft boudaries". There is room for making mistakes and learning. However the only way to enforce "hard boundaries" is through capital punishment (ie. nuclear option). The problem is that they always have the urge to test the hard boundaries.
Lone_Ranger 2 2y ago
that does sound tricky. Can you elaborate? examples of hard and soft boundaries?
My thinking was that if you get in there early enough, and slap down the soft shit tests, you might be able to train her away from hitting you with more serious hard boundary testing.
Lionsmane8 2y ago
That's what i did with my last bitch. Got her young (19-31), squashed all the early soft shit tests, trained her well with the intention of grooming her to be an LTR. All was smooth until i gave too much comfort (from my understanding) until she hit me with a sucker punch (hard shit test) and i decided to nuke.
Examples-
Hard boundaries: rationning sex Soft boudaries: texting her orbiters when she's with me or just being "too casual" with me in her language (likecursing more than necessary)
mattyanon Admin 2y ago
You vetted. She didn't pass. Most won't.
This is why we vet women, rather than hoping to train them all.
Lone_Ranger 2 2y ago
If I understand you correctly, you got her at 19 and dumped her at 31? sorry to hear that it didn't work out.
You think her cussing too much is testing boundaries? texting orbiters is a bit weird i'd agree. A woman in a relatinship should not be texting orbiters, or even have orbiters.
It must be a bit weird being married to a woman that is active on SM.... like posting pics of her self etc. with thirsty dudes sliding into her dms. just plain weird.
Lionsmane8 2y ago
Haha no, i am 31, she's 19. We didn't even make it to a year, that's why i call her "prospective LTR".
As for policing language, its parts of my boundaries. Not necessarily shit testing.
And for the orbiters she used to make me read the texts she gets from them. I did get revolted in the beginning because of the texting, but as long as I am what i call "the dick-in-her-life", i know those dudes are just for free attention.
Lone_Ranger 2 2y ago
Her showing you texts that she gest from others to my mind is shit testing. It's not certainly not meant to make you feel better is it?
Lionsmane8 2y ago
Texting while we were out and about got me mad as shit, even went cold on her for a couple of days (arguing is pointless, withdrawing attention gets her attention). So to appease me she showed me her texts. Masterclass in how girls manage their orbiters. If only they knew what their ideal princess was up to.
Lone_Ranger 2 2y ago
Yup! It's thirsty simps on SM that have ruined women. Average women be walking around thinking they're scarlet Johansson. Because digital simps.