Hey guys,
So here's the shituation. I have been red pill aware for about 2 years now. I backslid badly during my first 'red pill relationship' and got summarily dumped because of it, but since then I have been playing the field for about a year - tinder hookups, nothing special, no commitment etc. Maintained the 'abundance mindset' no matter what was going on. Fucked them good, but didn't chase any of them, and always made sure they knew I would walk out the door and become unavailable if my needs were not being met. It always paid off, and the last year has been great.
I use this recent example first as a point of comparison: I went on a Tinder date about a month ago and it was all par for the course - she messaged me after matching, and she proposed the date. Within a couple of hours I was sitting on her tits with my dick down her throat, because I made her feel that if we didn't have sex, there might not be a second date - classic FOMO. Needless to say, she is an absolute whore with a triple digit body count, but a lot of fun and gives blowjobs that can only be described as aggressive. In any case, I made it clear I was not interested in a relationship, but she started trying to reel me in so I backed off and cancelled the next fuck-date.
In the meantime, I had already organised another Tinder date with a girl from a different town who happened to be passing through and really wanted to meet. I assumed from her texts and her behaviour that she was just ovulating and wanted to fuck a stranger whom she'd likely never see again. That's what I was expecting - an average looking woman on the hunt for a quickie.
However it didn't pan out like that at all. The moment we first made eye contact, I was stunned and totally thrown off my game. I tried to hold it together, but she could see me stumbling and so she took over the frame. We had the gayest date ever, holding hands and making out on the waterfront in the moonlight etc. I felt like I was in a trance, an alternate reality - totally blind sided by her presence. The worst part was that I actually enjoyed it and felt like I was falling in love.
It was disgusting.
We couldn't keep our hands off one another and almost did it in a parking lot, but we didn't, because by that stage I had already agreed to a second date, and so the FOMO was gone. Plus it was late and she still had to drive over 100 miles to get back home for work in the morning, so after a lot of kissing and goodbyes, we parted ways.
Anyway, that was Tuesday, and she is driving back up here on Friday night (24 hours from now) for a proper fuck session at my place. I have never wanted anyone so badly, and it's been a long time since my thoughts have been so focused on one person. I can feel myself sliding back into beta mode. I am keeping it under control because she is not here, and I am staying as stoic as I can with my texts - logistics only etc.
However, when she arrives at my flat tomorrow evening, especially once we've had sex - I am worried that my balls are gonna shrivel up, and I'm gonna start subconsciously qualifying for commitment.
She is beautiful, 6 foot tall, nice booty and batshit crazy - tons of red flags and in no way girlfriend material. And yet despite all that, I feel like I am getting one-itis. I've fucked and dated women who were both 'hotter' and less crazy than she is, yet she somehow seems more appealing and arousing than any of them ever did.
Why has this happened? The more I talk about it, the more I can step back and retain my objectivity, but I am not out the woods yet. I already know the sex is going to be amazing, there is no way it can't be - but at this stage I am honestly worried about premature ejaculation, which I only had once many years ago.
Do any of the pros and veterans here have any thoughts? Why do I feel like I am back at square one?
keishamoe 3y ago
A good counter example would be that she just came to your town and pulled the frame right out from under your feet. Frame is contextual. https://happywheels2.io
Art_of_C 3y ago
If she got you worrying about your performance during sex, you got out-gamed.
The first meeting sets the tone, it's hard to come back because anything else you do that isn't congruent with the first meeting behavior is going to come off inauthentic. The only thing you can do is not being overly eager at this point, that could shift the frame back to your end a bit, but it's also highly likely you just have to take this L and accept the fact that some women are actually more practiced at this than you are. Live and learn.
murphy 3y ago
It's really good that you realized you've lost frame in the relationship. Most guys don't realize that until the ink is dry on the divorce papers, so count yourself lucky.
Let's go over how you lost frame and then we can work on how to get it back.
"In the meantime, I had already organised another Tinder date with a girl from a different town who happened to be passing through and really wanted to meet."
She's coming to you. She is the one with the important thing to do. She is the one with the valuable time. She is the one who puts pressure on you to either show up or lose out. She gamed you like... like a man.
"I assumed from her texts and her behaviour that she was just ovulating and wanted to fuck a stranger whom she'd likely never see again. That's what I was expecting - an average looking woman on the hunt for a quickie."
"I assumed..." You lost right there. Never assume. She surprised you, threw you off your game and probably laid on the charm to keep you on your heels. This ain't her first rodeo. She knows to under promise and over deliver.
Getting Frame Back
Look man, you probably can't get it back without taking an L. That's the hard truth. That being said, what I would do is reschedule. I would text her that something came up and reschedule it on your terms. Change the time, change the venue, change as much as you can and be ready for her to ghost you or threaten to lose interest. Love is war and in war if your enemy knows where you are... don't be there. You have to be unpredictable.
After that, you need to refocus and study up on game. Remember to agree and amplify, remember to be cocky-funny, remember to be unpredictable. If there's anything she does that you don't like then show it in a small way.
Also, get back your abundance mind-set, because you clearly lost it. If there's time before you two meet then go get with another girl who's like a 5 even if you normally do better.
"I already know the sex is going to be amazing, there is no way it can't be - but at this stage I am honestly worried about premature ejaculation, which I only had once many years ago."
You don't know that the sex will be amazing. Yes, there is a way it can't be. Dude, a vagina is never the same minute to minute. You can fuck a girl two days in a row and that thing can be dry as a bone one day and wet as the morning dew the next. AWALT. So don't psyche yourself out thinking its gonna be awesome. She's got you getting the FOMO. That's exactly the opposite of abundance mindset.
Even if you fuck her and it is awesome and you lost all the frame and now you're a dyed in the wool blue pill beta in the morning... you can still come out of it. Don't think you can't. She's just a woman and probably not even the hottest you'll ever be with. You can always step away and you will be fine.
One last thing. Just remember that the most important thing a man has is his freedom.
Good luck, man.
Salacious-Stoic 3y ago
Thanks,
Though going back over what I wrote, and then reading your response - I think I may have overstated the case a little here.
This however: "She surprised you, threw you off your game and probably laid on the charm to keep you on your heels. This ain't her first rodeo. She knows to under promise and over deliver."
She kept my expectations low with shitty photos, then cranked up the 'crazy-beautiful' once we met, in order to throw me off balance, take control, and then initiate the intimacy on her terms. This is absolutely what happened. I enjoyed it, but she was in control. However I will also say that when a girl is almost as tall as you are, it does make it a little harder to be dominant!
You are also 100% correct about the sex thing - it could be great, or it could be weird and shitty, or perhaps even just average, and so my putting the product on a pedestal before I've even sampled it is an extremely beta move which fosters a scarcity mindset. I am setting myself up to be gamed and discarded if I continue to think like this - so thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Where you lose me though, is here: "She's coming to you. She is the one with the important thing to do. She is the one with the valuable time. She is the one who puts pressure on you to either show up or lose out. She gamed you like... like a man."
I don't understand this at all. There are only two options - she comes to my town, or I go to hers. To me, the latter puts me in the weaker position and I will not do it, and so the former is the only other option - yet you are saying that this is allowing her to game me? The way I see it, she is the one making the trip and going out of her way. She is coming to my town, my home, and will be in my frame for as long as she is here - at least far more so than if I went to her. I can't see there being a more desirable option?
Maybe you can explain this in more detail?
Anyway, I am going to go through with this thing, as whatever happens - you are right. I will be fine, because she is just a woman and I still have two active plates for backup. I've been with plenty now, and I will be with plenty more in future.
My biggest strength in game has always been cocky, playful indifference. It comes naturally; all other aspects of my game flow from this mindset and have always served me well. I have been controlling the frame via text over the last couple of days (ignoring her love bombing, refusing to qualify for affection or validate her feelings, and only responding to logistical questions with a bit of cheeky negging) and so I just have to keep this up, as it is already shifting the balance of power back in my favour.
I have had these feelings come up in the past - and I always managed to get things back under control by keeping it simple. Rather than over-thinking it, I just remind myself that she's just a woman, and so her first priority is to get inside my head by telling me that I am special and what we have is special. In one way or another, it's always the same, and if you see it for what it is, you realise it does not really exist and certainly isn't worth sacrificing your freedom for.
Anyway, feel free to clarify those other points if you want, but otherwise thanks for the advice. I found most of it quite useful and I will report back later to share the experience.
murphy 3y ago
Sure thing. Below is a bit more detail.
"I don't understand this at all. There are only two options - she comes to my town, or I go to hers."
There are not only two options. You could go to a third town and stay at a hotel/resort. I understand money might be short, but it is an option. Whenever I am put into a situation that seems to have a binary answer I think real hard about what a third option could be no matter how crazy it sounds as long as it is technically possible. This gives me a sense of control over the situation.
"To me, the latter puts me in the weaker position and I will not do it, and so the former is the only other option - yet you are saying that this is allowing her to game me? The way I see it, she is the one making the trip and going out of her way. She is coming to my town, my home, and will be in my frame for as long as she is here - at least far more so than if I went to her. I can't see there being a more desirable option?"
A good counter example would be that she just came to your town and pulled the frame right out from under your feet. Frame is contextual. If you planned an awesome date in her town, made all the reservations, got into the coolest club, had a couple fun surprises, and then went back to her place to close the deal, could you really say that you never had frame because you were in her town?
I can tell that you are trying to memorize game and put it into practice. Early on, memorizing game is very beneficial. Being alpha is not who you are when you start so you have to go through a phase of just getting the knowledge in your head. However, you can't succeed like that long term. Just look at Mystery. Eventually you have to internalize game. You have to make it literally part of who you are. You have to make it your first, instinctual reaction. Once you can do that then you won't get into situations where you feel like you could or did backslide.
Salacious-Stoic 3y ago
Hey man, thanks for the clarification.
I appreciate your highlighting the nuances and alternatives that were not immediately obvious to me. What I will say in regards to game, is that it is easier to game women who you are less interested in, than to game one you actually like and find very attractive. In the former case it comes naturally, automatically, whereas in the latter it is far more conscious and deliberate because your instincts tell you she is the prize.
So, the situation unfolded like this. She was due to be here at around 8pm, but then texted at the last minute to say she had "lost track of time" and it was now too late, and that we should probably postpone until Saturday. This was her first major shit test (and an obvious one) so I calmly communicated to her that tomorrow was not an option, and that we either stuck to the original plan or forgot about the whole thing. It was now or never, and she needed to get here quick.
Somewhat surprisingly, she immediately capitulated and was at my door about 90 minutes later - which means she made full use of the unrestricted Autobahn on the way here. She was visibly shaken and immediately apologised, to which I responded with "apology accepted" before looking her in the eye and saying "don't do it again". She vowed not to, and later on actually thanked me for standing my ground on this - telling me it made her feel more secure.
The weekend went well. The sex was pretty damn good and I thoroughly enjoyed spending time with her. Needless to say she threw a number of shit tests at me, obviously screening for insecurity and weakness - she got me on something for a minute, which was difficult to avoid given my circumstances, but I eventually shook it off took the lead again. She told me she was seeing other people, I told her that so was I, and that commitment was not a priority for me. Looking back, I found it easier to control the frame around her than anyone else. It was weird.
By the time she left on Sunday morning, she was acting as though she was completely in love with me. I returned the affection, but only about 30% of what she was giving me. I even let her take the t-shirt that I had been wearing with her - I always find it cute when girls do that. She was messaging me on her way home, and within 24 hours she was trying to set up the next date.
After being disinterested in her initial suggestions, she sent me a long rambling voice message saying that she had ditched her other date because it wasn't going to work out, and that I should do a road trip with her to visit her elderly grandma, who lives in a city that may be locked down again shortly. She sold it like a weekend away, talking about crazy sex in the hotel and romantic walks around the city, but this was obviously another shit test.
She wanted to gage my level of commitment. How desperate was I? Would I sit in a car for 4-5 hours to visit someone I didn't know - just to be with her? Would I do something totally inappropriate for a third date just to have sex again?
I didn't respond at all, and so the next morning I woke up to a number of nudes on my phone, which was obviously her way of saying "what about now?". I took my time and eventually wrote a brief response saying that I was not interested in the road trip, but that if she wanted to drive back up to my place instead, that would be cool.
Predictably, her grandma was suddenly less of a priority, and she asked me when I would be available. We made arrangements and then didn't speak for a couple of days until this morning, when she sent me another selfie of her getting out the shower - which was not a bad way to start the day, I must admit.
In any case; so far, so good. The thing that worries me the most right now is that she seems a little too eager to see me and to be in my frame. The other girls I am seeing tend to put up more resistance, if only temporarily, whereas with her, the capitulation is instant 95% of the time, despite her being the most outwardly untamed of them all.
I am not sure what to make of this. My mind immediately suspects a hidden motive, conscious or otherwise, perhaps to get pregnant. I am 36, she is 35 and says she doesn't want kids, though I am not sure whether I can believe that. She certainly doesn't appear preoccupied with them and said she had an abortion a year ago, but who knows what the real truth is. I have already a child from a previous relationship, and cannot have another one - so I am using a condom even though she has a contraceptive coil.
She is gonna be back here tomorrow afternoon, and we will probably take a bike ride or a walk as the autumn weather is fantastic where I am right now. The attitude I am trying to adopt here, is one of indifference, reminding myself that freedom is my highest priority, not the affections or satisfaction of a woman.