Around every ten years, the U.S. has a major recession. By paying attention you can make very easy and large returns in about a year. I decided to share this information for the potential upcoming fire sale.
My first time taking advantage of recessions was in the 2008 recession where I made over $450k in a single commercial property purchase in 2009. I used $450k in cash and a loan for $400k loan to purchase a $1.3 million commercial property. I essentially made $450k the day I finalized the deal. I started receiving offers a year after purchase.
Now that I have your attention, I will tell you the story of the poor sucker who lost his shirt only to hand it to me. Bob owned a construction company in 2005. Bob was really good at what he did. He kept getting contract after contract. He couldn't lease enough equipment and was buying new $700k dollar heavy equipment brand new with loans the commercial banks were handing out like candy at a doctor's office. Bob didn't mind. He was spending money to make money, and he was making it hand over fist.
Then the 2008 crash came. New construction came to a halt, but Bob's loan payments didn't. Bob could sell his extra heavy equipment but only at 30% of what he paid for them. This was nowhere near enough to pay the principle on his loans. Bob went to the bank for more loans. He is a business man. He just needs a line of credit to float until the recession is over.
The problem is that all of the banks loan officers who were getting bonuses just a year ago are now being grilled for irresponsible lending. These loan officers are now only willing to lend money to people who don't need it anymore. They want enough collateral to keep the loan solvent. Bob is not that person. Most people aren't. The crazy thing is that loan officers are under even more pressure to lend. If you give them a deal they can get behind, they will bend over backwards to push it through for you. It will still take longer due to new rules from shit hitting the fan though.
Bob was now staring down the barrel of bankruptcy. He personally guaranteed these loans because that's how it works. Bob has to unwind before a court does it for him. After simmering for about a year, Bob will relist everything at a price that will get him out from under the loans without having his life reset. This is where smarter businessmen extract valuable assets from Bob at a deep discount. Paying market price for anything is for suckers. Don't be a sucker.
So the entrance is so easy that it seems obvious when you think about it for a moment. So why doesn't everyone do this? How do you ascend from being the small fish getting pillaged by local big fish to being the big fish doing the pillaging? The secret is the exit.
Immediately after purchasing this property, I was able to turn it around into enough income to get a net positive cash flow on the property although not that much in the beginning. Most of my profit was from paying down the mortgage principle and holding for appreciation back to market value. After the market recovered, I had essentially doubled my money. My rents increased and I was able to renegotiate my loan from 8% to 5%, making me even more money. Life was good.
At this point I could have sold but I didn't. Why? It's not time for exit. Yes, I could have realized a lot of profits, but I would have been hit with short-term capital gains. This is a big no-no. Big fish don't pay income tax. They pay long-term capital gains. This is why Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate than his secretary. On top of this, what are you going to do with that money? Having it sit in your checking account is just wiping your ass with it. You could put it into another property, but you will be paying market price which is pointless. Hold it for now.
After the economy recovers, you can once again go back to borrowing money to make money. Just watch the calendar. After about five years, you should not take anymore leverage you will guarantee. You should start winding down your more highly leveraged positions as the boom market goes into full swing. At this point you could sell the property you bought at discount for a ridiculous price that only Bob would pay. I chose to hold mine because it has enormous upside potential waiting on more suburban and road development in the area. If you do hold, you can still re-leverage the property later to fund later purchases. This moves you from paying the already low long-term capital gains tax to paying no tax.
Note 1: You cannot predict the timings of busts. Anyone telling you otherwise is selling you something. Always have a plan for if the economy bursts tomorrow. Walk into deals with that in mind. Most people are so thoroughly hosed because they think that good times are forever in the booms and bad times are forever in the busts.
Note 2: Amazon and the COVID-19 are going to wipe out most retail. Keep that in mind if you shop for commercial properties. Stick with properties that will serve business that cannot be replaced by Amazon in the next five years.
Note 3: Commercial loans are not residential loans. Be aware of when the bank can call your loan even when you are making payments.
Note 4: You can also find great deals at trustee sales but trying to leverage the purchase is difficult to impossible. Having another property you can leverage for cash is helpful here. Walking in these with a fat stack of cash is a great way to make money but much riskier. If you don't have a lot of cash for the bigger deals you will have to fight the idiots who just read the latest Get Rich Quick book.
Note 5: Although this seems geared towards realty, these principles hold for all capital-intensive businesses. This is why large corporations sit on mountains of gold like dragons and devour the assets and customers of smaller competitors during downturns.
Lessons Learned
- Don't over-leverage yourself. Don't be Bob.
- Buy Bob's stuff for pennies on the dollar.
- Sell Bob his stuff back for more than it is worth.
- Leverage is an important tool if you respect it, know your risks, and use it wisely.
- If you don't know and act like your income can go to zero for two years and do not plan for it, you will be taken advantage of by someone who does.
- Do whatever you can to turn your profits into long-term capital gains.
- Even better, hold and don't pay taxes.
Addenda
- u/DonSwagger1 shared a great video on economic cycles due to debt expansion and contraction
- I cannot recommend any books here as I don't know any good ones that are general enough. I don't know of any good realty books either. Most are scammy Get Rich Quick books sold a decade too late to be useful.

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bsutansalt 5y ago
A solid book on this is Rich Dad Poor Dad as it points out the different tax treatments OP mentioned.
cuztrp 5y ago
For someone who is nowhere near having a $1k in their bank accounts, I recommend buying stocks. Do your research and see which stock which will definitely go back back up in the future and get that stock.
StarchRunner 5y ago
America has the most sq footage of commercial space per capita. I wouldn’t touch most areas with a 10 foot pole. Many shopping centers and malls are going to go bust the next decade and I doubt there is enough new market opportunities to fill even a quarter of them. That’s why there are numerous dead mall series on youtube.
I think America is in for bad times ahead, sped up by the money printing gift to banks/corps over Covid and the stonk market. Housing boomed especially since WW2, but if the dollar loses reserve currency status, look at McMansions and the like to be abandoned faster than 8mpg cadillacs during the 70s oil crisis — except it won’t be as fast in resolving.
Anyway, the crux of it is you expect business as usual after this, as that has been the pattern your whole life. I expect pax Americana to fall, as all empires in history have done. You might be right for a time, I think I will be correct by 2030. Who knows for sure. But few people in 1986 expected the USSR to utterly crash and burn within 5 years either.
BhattaraiPrayag 5y ago
Great read. Where can I learn more about this kind of stuff? Please suggest.
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K04free 5y ago
Just bought my first investment property. Landlords that are over leveraged are desperate to sell. Tenants are not paying rent and it’s illegal to evict. Mortgages are still due and idiot landlords don’t have the cash to pay.
In addition interest rates are at decade lows. My invest property has a lower interest rate than my primary residence.
Now is the time to buy. I’ve been throwing everything I can afford to into the market. Don’t be fooled it’s up over 20% from recent lows. Right now cash is for broke people. Be greedy.
Thelonelywindow 5y ago
OP thank you so much for your post and the time you took to write it for us! Time is money and you decided to share some of that with us! Sincerely, thank you :)
VigilantRedRooster 5y ago
While this isn't directly about sexual strategy, it is full of gold toward building wealth and therefore power, both of which become sexual strategy at sufficient levels.
Also the article is a red pill for moving from a consumer/renter mindset to that of producer/owner/baron.
RanaMahal 5y ago
why does everything on here specifically have to be about sexual strategy anyways? the red pill is about improving yourself as a man in all ways
Thelonelywindow 5y ago
Totally agree with you and I thought posts like the original were more than welcomed. I think aiming for women when you can train yourself to become “powerful” and influential is way more interesting
Rupturednutsack 5y ago
To quote tony montana from scarface "This town like a great big pussy just waiting to be fucked"
BrownGummyBear 5y ago
this is the content I come to this sub for!
green_ginger_cake 5y ago
Quite honestly I don’t understand any of the ideas talked about in OP, but I’d like to understand more. What are about 5 books to begin reading to better understand real estate & financing?
Mr_KenSpeckle 5y ago
The original "Millionaire Next Door" is good for general wealth-building advice. There were some sequels that were not as good.
Regarding Wall Street, "One Up on Wall Street" by Peter Lynch would be good. Its examples are dated but the principles are still sound.
Watch Warren Buffett interviews on YouTube. And read his mentor's book "The Intelligent Investor."
"Creating and Growing Real Estate Wealth" by William J. Poorvu is a good, non-scammy book on real estate investing.
stevecapw 5y ago
Check out Bigger Pockets podcast
LowCreddit 5y ago
The only way I recommend is finding someone you know who isn't retarded to guide you. Most real estate books are scams. Finance books are either too basic to be useful or too academic to be understood.
kode20 5y ago
Would have entered the 25th, but my account aldo got delayed, im from chile and transfering funds takes a while, lost a 10% upside day fuck me lol.
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Edgy_Rick 5y ago
The two levers to making money are: other people's time, and other people's money. Right now an easy way to make money is to borrow as much as possible to take part in off-market deals - whether that be acquiring a company, buying a house, or buying equipment to sell it back later like you referred to earlier. The better the deal is, the less risk you take on with the loan (and what's the risk if there is no personal guarantee on the line?) Also - despite what banks may say, you don't need a down payment if you structure things correctly, and if your deal is hot enough - they just want to know they'll make their money back and a profit. Right now is a great transition of wealth for those who are willing to take part.
Warfrog 5y ago
It's a rigged game. Insider trading is rife and always has been, example LIBOR. This is all good in theory, but using leverage as a tool is playing with fire for almost everyone. Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. The only one who wins in this zero sum game is the guy who can wait it out the longest, the one who waits until there is "blood in the streets".
You can't guarantee long-term capital gains if the asset you're holding turns to dogshit. Look at right now, stocks, bonds, oil, USD REKT. Even gold is getting rekt. Bitcoin is getting pumped, who knows wtf will happen with that. We're in the everything bubble. The US fed is printing $1 million a second. It's mind blowing. Everyone is talking about the pin and not the bubble. Coronavirus isn't responsible for the economic fallout it started. This has been a long time in the making.
Personally, I came to terms with the very real possibility of poverty for myself and my family 12+ months ago. I suggest you all do the same. This is going to be a long, drawn out and painful depression. Unless the USD defaults/hyperinflates away debt and/or moves to a gold standard the only outcome is collapse. This is just the beginning. Good luck out there.
LowCreddit 5y ago
I like that you compared leverage to fire. It simultaneously kills people all over the constantly and powers civilization. Very apt.
If it turns into a Mad Max movie then nothing matters. Until then I will carry on as if this one is just like the last one.
kode20 5y ago
I entered the market the 26 of march, up 14% already. Stocks arent getting rekt, and when they are its a good time to buy more.
BitcoinFan7 5y ago
Bitcoin is the only safe play currently imo. The halving is in 10 days people!!
https://medium.com/@100trillionUSD/modeling-bitcoins-value-with-scarcity-91fa0fc03e25
https://digitalik.net/btc/
HellSpeed 5y ago
Halving Explained
hockeyaddict87 5y ago
My dad was a loan officer before the big 2008 collapse. Man my Christmas’s were amazing those years, I was a kid then. Also if you want to learn more about this stuff watch The Big Short. It’s a very educational movie.
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liberules 5y ago
this is a really long article that basically says buy the dip.
in jan, i cashed out my brokerage account. 100% index funds. in march i bought back in pretty close to the bottom. i'm up 30% since january, and that's not even counting the long term capital gains from the jan sale. don't be a sucker.
timing it is really tough though, and you have to be able to handle the losses among the wins. and sometimes you will suck, you will lose, you will get royally fucked over. but you need to average out those wins and losses, take your lumps, and get back on the horse. shit, i was daytrading at one point... had an overleveraged position while other assets were tied up. i lost a quarter million in under a day, but if i had a bit more to let the leverage run another 3 hours, i would have made $8 million. but even then, my wins far outweigh my losses.
z2a1-9 5y ago
Okay, how much pussy did that get you?
z2a1-9 5y ago
Okay, how much pussy did that get you?
Fulp_Piction 5y ago
You were able to do that because you knew how to value an asset properly. Thats where the value is, so how did you get to that point?
Any knuckle dragger knows that buying a £20 note for £15 is a good deal, and anyone with a cursory interest in finance knows that what you're saying is true.
Seems to me that the US economy is floating on the fact that a reasonably quick recovery is priced in and big tech and blue chips aren't going to take much of a loss on average. How do you beat those people in the current economic context?
LowCreddit 5y ago
You can look at the price history in public databases. You can see what he paid for it. In the case of this property, he had bought the property a few years back for $1.2 million. I knew the value had gone back and would continue going up due to the school zoning and upcoming local development.
You don't have to care about "priced in" items. Ignore them. This is why I ignore the stock market except to dump a portion of my IRA into index funds. I focus on things I know and understand. In a bust, bank lending drops precipitously as they add new rules that make it almost impossible to borrow. At the same time, they call the loans of people they are nervous about. No one floats over a million dollars in cash. This means that a lot of commercial properties sell at enormous discounts because supply rapidly increases and demand goes to almost zero. The small amount of people that are able to piece together the money to buy are given a sea of sweetheart deals to choose from.
Fulp_Piction 5y ago
You pulled the trigger at a good time, credit where it's due. I'm starting to pay attention to this sort of thing, so I'm no expert - how did you know it wasn't overvalued to begin with?
LowCreddit 5y ago
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Thinkingard 5y ago
I am reading a book on debt forgiveness and this post reminds and reinforces for me that we live in a society dominated by creditors. The creditors will always win in the end over any Bob. Look at the generations of student loan debt slaves.
Rathadin 5y ago
Oh you don't have to worry. Student loans are the next housing market. They're going to crash and they're going to crash hard and its going to be a real shitshow.
I have a friend who works for a Fortune 50 company as a SVP. He recently paid off his student loan. He makes $500,000 a year plus up to $2 million in stock options. He's 40.
DareyFathom 5y ago
That's what I was planning on typing before seeing it was a reinforced lesson. Well done to emphasize it. You can recover from a lot, if not most, financial mistakes. You will eventually get exposed if you make a habit of over-leveraging yourself and that always stems from not considering negative contingencies.
LowCreddit 5y ago
A lot of people assume that tomorrow is going to be just like today. Thinking outside that box is very hard for people. You have to force yourself to do it. Risk assessment is pivotal when trying to make money long-term.
j-mac-rock 5y ago
As a college graduate in radio journalism who is working retail and is struggling. What can I do to hopefully not get fucked
nschider_001 5y ago
I love these types of posts....
"How I made alot of money....
Take a shit load of money you already have and invest it....
see how smart I am"
mexipill 5y ago
Wtf This is redpill, I thought I was at wsb. This is a pretty great blueprint to wealth. Though I’m not sure this recession will be like the others. Something tells me we needed an excuse to go down, and things won’t ever be the same.
WestLAStuff 5y ago
It’s so easy. Just have $500,000 already and leverage to borrow just as much.
yallapapi 5y ago
bro come on he said he only used $450k. stop exaggerating
yallapapi 5y ago
bro come on he said he only used $450k. stop exaggerating
hockeyaddict87 5y ago
It could be a $200,000 house.
idontknowmanheh 5y ago
Look like you need lots of money to make lots of money.
[deleted] 5y ago
If you don’t have 100k in the bank before you are 35-40 you have failed as a man
And I say this as the son of parents who made total 20k a year my entire life. Maybe mid 30ks per year in the late 90s
LowCreddit 5y ago
You don't have to do this only with million dollar properties. That is where most of the opportunity is though. You could be buying oil field equipment for a song soon at much smaller amounts with decent returns as well. There is opportunity everywhere if you know what you are looking for. This is why I included Note 5.
If you don't have any money saved up then I would suggest starting out doing Dave Ramsey's baby steps. His advice is great for people who are just beginning to learn how to build wealth. I am describing an intermediate level strategy for people who are already building wealth. You can still earn and save until the next opportunity comes.
SeasonedRP 2 5y ago
A friend and I were talking about oil field equipment given the problems in that industry now and whether there were opportunities for us. Ensco was formed during an 80s oil bust. Banks had loans on offshore rigs that were located all over the world. They could have foreclosed on the loans but transportation costs were very high, so some savvy investors re-negotiated the loans and arranged to move the equipment. They made a fortune when oil prices rebounded.
It seemed to me that there will be good opportunities in oil field equipment, but one needs some fairly specific knowledge and connections in order to make something like that work.
CarelessBowler5 5y ago
Reminds me of the rebel capitalist. Buy low sell high. Most people buy high to try to sell higher. The thing I'm trying to learn is how to discern when something is actually "low."
And then being patient. Jeez that's the hard part for me.
For those of us just finishing our emergency fund, what assets are useful for building up wealth to get started?
LowCreddit 5y ago
Buy low, sell high is both obvious and hard to do. You have to get a sense of the fluctuations of prices over time. Keeping an eye out with patience is the biggest key to success here.
I would say start maxing out your IRA's. If you want to deviate a bit from that and know you can make better returns with cash then that's fine too. Just don't ignore your IRA's. You can later use them for local investment vehicles as well, but it requires an attorney to guide you.
I deviate from Dave Ramsey a bit in that I understand debt at a fundamental level. Dave Ramsey's steps are wonderful for beginners and those who have trouble with impulse control. He does amazing work. Paying off your house is really about whether or not you are an employer or employee. Your home loan is your safest and lowest interest loan you can get. If you can make consistent returns much higher than the loan rate, you are technically making free money. Be aware that this is the same mindset as Bob. Make sure you know where your risks are. If you are an employee and going to be stuck with a semi-fixed income for a while, paying off your house is an incredible idea. It's even better if you buy a cheap house to begin with. Paying off the loan will give you a higher net cash flow which means you can save faster to invest later.
CarelessBowler5 5y ago
Employee. But sales, so lots of upside potential in commissions. Bought a duplex. Rent covers 80% of the mortgage and we live on the others side. When we move out, we'll see healthy cash flow on this property. But we have some capital investment to make until then.
I switched to a self-directed IRA earlier this year. I got tired of having zero options with my money. Last financial advisor picked some funds to dump my cash into and couldn't even explain why beyond "It's what we recommend."
Currently reading Graham's "The Intelligent Investor." I've got some money in gold, silver, and crypto now, too.
Trying to diversify. Wise? I don't know. I picked a hell of a year to try to learn more about finance.
LowCreddit 5y ago
So I think Dave goes into commissions and talks about their riskiness. I would definitely keep your expenses below your base salary if you can. I love the property. Owner-occupied comes with a lot of perks. That is an excellent way to start building wealth quickly.
The Intelligent Investor is well worth read if only for looking to the stock market to see how irrational it is. My recommendation is to just push your money into index funds with the lowest management fees. Then never look at the market again. Just pump money continuously.
Crypto baffles me. I don't understand it so I stay away from it. I think there is a lot of opportunity there. I know that some third world countries have started using it as a way to move to a more stable system than their own worthless money. The U.S. has a habit of embargoing and invading anyone who does base their currency on the dollar though. Who knows?
Westwood_1 5y ago
You're missing the point. Now is a great time to be buying almost anything that has intrinsic value. 2008 was a great time to be buying, as well.
simplevalue 5y ago
This is just flat out wrong.
UpOnCloud9 5y ago
am I crazy in suspecting there's going to be a crash?
Isbjornsolo 5y ago
There is going to be a big crash. Most western ecoinomies are just printing money. Therefore devaluing their own currencies. It will have to be paid back.
Everyone thinks it great that they are on 80% of their salary (Furlough in the UK) without thinking what happens when the economy opens back up.
Save every bit of cash you have and cut back on expenses that aren't essential. This is going to be a bumpy ride.
The businesses that are still allowed to operate at 100%. What I call the "base" economy. That everything else is built off. Invest in these sorts of companies if you have spare cash. Everything else will take a big hit.
UpOnCloud9 5y ago
Keep long term investments in the market or pull out now?
Also why not invest in non essentials that will bounce back?
zyzznerd 5y ago
What you call “base” economy is for a big part “lobby to be seen as essential” economy.
Isbjornsolo 5y ago
I’m referring to the likes of food, infrastructure & some parts of the public sector.
In the UK these are mainly the areas that are working as normal. Most other industries have either stopped or heavily reduced.
The lobbying is mainly being done by senior executives who are going to see their portfolios tank.
toolate4redpill 5y ago
Friends of ours have a Pizza shop. The worse the economy gets, the more money they make. The past couple of months they are so busy they had to limit their hours.
You have to figure out what people WANT when they are in financial duress.
halfback910 5y ago
Yeah junk food and all sin industries (EXCEPT GAMBLING) improve in a recession.
People apwnd a dollar on a candybar instead of dinner at a restaurant.
Casinos shit the bed because when the economy is good, people feel lucky. Vice versa when the economy is shit.
[deleted] 5y ago
Funny you mention the sin industries. Medical marijuana producers/dispensaries have been thriving in this coronavirus lockdown. I'm currently invested in a cannabis REIT called $IIPR, which does sale leasebacks with medical marijuana producers. I run by a dispensary close to me and see a line during lunchtime. The demand is there. This is happening in Illinois: https://patch.com/illinois/across-il/recreational-marijuana-sales-increase-despite-coronavirus
WhatRemainsAfter 5y ago
I was under impression, restaurants are doing really bad.
Can you explain how come pizza shop is making money?
Isbjornsolo 5y ago
Restaurants are. Take-aways aren't.
Smart restaurant owners have pivoted and are now operating as take aways. The ones that have switched are making a killing.
Plus profit margins on pizza are huge. >90%.
rdaneeloliv4w 5y ago
Speculation:
Ordering pizza is cheaper than eating out at most restaurants, and when people are stressed out during a recessions they usually turn to comfort foods and substances like alcohol to numb the pain.
swaite 5y ago
I'm sorry dude, but get fucked. 99.9% of people do not have that kind of wealth to begin with, but I'd be willing to bet that a majority of them with half a brain already know how that investing in real estate is a golden goose.
DonSwagger1 5y ago
I watched on interesting video on economy 101, the debt cycle. You did well picking the right time and place to start your investment, thanks for the insight
[deleted] 5y ago
Honestly, real estate is a meme. This post is absolutely dripping in hubris and get-rich-quick BS. You had a lot of leverage and a decent amount of luck (and also a lot of upfront cash that goes unexplained). For every one of you, there are 10 people who hatched their golden plan only to watch the property get crushed and never recover. There are also a lot of people who had the right idea but executed at the wrong time, so they got killed by cash flow needs anyway. Being a landlord is not passive income; it is a second job. Go ask anyone in r/landlord.
We live in an era where you can buy an S&P500 fund or total market index fund and pay .04% or less per year in management fees. I could go to Vanguard and say "Automatically max out my IRA every year for me using monthly contributions to X security", kick my feet up, not do shit else for decades thereafter, and probably still have more money than most real estate investors. You do not have to hit a grand slam on an investment to be rich. Just hit singles most years, but do it consistently for a long time.
The air conditioning unit has never broken on any of my index funds. My index funds have never been unable to pay rent. I have never gotten a 2am call from any of my index funds saying that a pipe burst and that the basement is now filling with actual human shit. None of my index funds have ever burned down. My index funds have never gone vacant for months at a time while I scramble to keep up the cash flow to pay the mortgage on them.
[deleted] 5y ago
100% with you. I don’t buy the idea that real estate is a must for investors.
NoodlesTheClown 5y ago
Shit, my $580,000 stock portfolio is up $20,000 in April. I went on a buying frenzy when the markets tanked. 33 years old, and no debt except our house.
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mugatucrazypills 5y ago
Thank you four your post. I will note that people in certain fields such as commercial services and reno-development and printing are also susceptible to becoming unfortnate good time girls like Bob.
JS25794 5y ago
Imo, this piece has a Wolf of Wall Street vibe. But good shit none the less. In essence it's 'basic' economics that many people choose to neglect
tenpointmatt 5y ago
it will be interesting to see what happens with infinite helicopter money coming.
in 2008 they declared that the stock market is only allowed to go up. now they're gonna add real estate to the list. money printer go brrr, everyone's rent/mortgage gets paid with monopoly money, and despite an unemployment north of 25%, the stock market is blasting off and home values are unaffected. lol, ok.
i'm hoping to buy some real estate if/when it takes a dump, but i don't even bother trying to predict where this ghost ship is heading anymore. there will be major bargains out there in a few months time, but i'll be damned if i could tell you what kind. distressed debt, hardware from hard hit (but essential) industries are solid ideas.
bsutansalt 5y ago
Unemployment is temporary, hence the favorable outlook of the stock market. However, home values have been steadily dropping for months, so I don't know where you're getting that assumption from regarding real-estate. All indications suggest we're on the cusp of another housing bust, or is already in progress and is just in slow motion so it's not as jarring as 08 was.
tenpointmatt 5y ago
temporary as in... what exactly? 1 in 3 people no longer has a job, and the industries many people work in are rekt beyond repair. lots of those jobs will not be coming back for years. you could drop a vaccine from outer space along with 5 billion doses tomorrow, and we'd still be talking about a serious recession. we're staring at a global depression here - there is virtually no way around it.
​
they're not dropping the way a normal market would respond to 25-35% unemployment.
deflation, then hyperinflation.
PositiveMaleGuidance 5y ago
I'm getting ready to do some catch-the-falling-knife investing myself. Can you expound on the efficacy of real estate versus stock market investments at a time like this? Wouldn't it be wise to pull the trigger on oil companies and air travel which will obviously rebound?
bsutansalt 5y ago
Yeah, you're late to the party. The most recent cycle was about 5-6 weeks ago. Give it time though, it'll happen again like it always does.
A good book to read is Rule 1 Investing by Phil Town. Look for what he calls "Rule 1 events" when something drops for no good reason.
LowCreddit 5y ago
Oil companies are in a horrendous position right now. Even though $20 oil is an artificial low, it's not going back to $100 for a long, long time. New drilling techniques have drastically increase the reachable oil supply.
I also have a distaste for stock market investing. There are too many armies of smart and well-connected guys out there taking other people's money. I stick a portion of my IRA into index funds and just buy constantly. I stick to what I can know and understand.
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TheBadGoy 5y ago
Recommend me some books or websites for beginners OP
bsutansalt 5y ago
They're posting some finance related videos to the TRP channel now, so that could help.
As for books, the only one that comes to mind is Rich Dad Poor Dad as he talks about real-estate and the different tax treatments that are out there.
Another good one is Rule 1 Investing by Phil Town.
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The_TRPThrowAway 5y ago
There's plenty of great info on this sub. Check out this finance thread which is also available on the side bar. There's also get online learning tools like Khan Academy if you're just starting out
UpOnCloud9 5y ago
/u/LowCreddit Please! I'm just getting into actively managing my investments. Before was just dropping into ETFs
advice_scaminal 5y ago
This is one of the best business/financial posts I have read here. So refreshing to see something beyond the standard "use game to get ahead in your corporate job" stuff.
freshsi165 5y ago
I have 2 grand.. thats all. What do?
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LowCreddit 5y ago
Start building wealth through saving. I suggest doing the first several baby steps by Dave Ramsey.
stevecapw 5y ago
+1 for Dave Ramsey. I'm a small business owner, and Profit First has been great for me as far as actual money management/budgeting. I believe it's worth a read for someone that isn't even a business owner, just from the fact that you can customize the system to your own needs.
queue1102 5y ago
What are your ways of avoiding the tax issue? I've got a commercial property and sink everything back into it and still pay taxes on the net rental income.
LowCreddit 5y ago
I still pay ordinary income on rent. I haven't paid the tax on capital gains though because they haven't been realized. Most of the money I made here was capital gains.
mugatucrazypills 5y ago
But what is the state of the Bobs' asses today ? Just beginning the hosing or fully hosed into prolapse ?
LowCreddit 5y ago
I have no idea. I know that he had to sell his very nice, brand new house soon thereafter. I am pretty sure he reincorporated on the other side of town a couple years later.
mugatucrazypills 5y ago
Not that Bob. I mean the general Bob's out there, has quarantine knocked them down to the curb, or should I wait a few more months for it to sink in ?
LowCreddit 5y ago
Sorry I misread that. I would start putting my feelers out to see if there are some really good deals out there. It's a bit early in the game right now. The recent SBA loans helped a lot of businesses. It usually takes 6 to 18 months for the desperate unwind to happen. The banks also haven't started restricting loans yet. It's the combination of a glut of supply and the lack of buyers with capital to buy that creates the perfect storm of screwing.
ninjapimp42 5y ago
But now do one for $45k liquid instead of $450k
TheProfitMotive 5y ago
Do one for $4500 liquid instead of $450k
Half of Americans barely have $1k in savings
extragreensauce 5y ago
Do one for $450 instead of $450K
"Almost 40% of American adults wouldn't be able to cover a $400 emergency with cash, savings or a credit-card charge that they could quickly pay off" - The Federal Reserve
yomo86 5y ago
Half of Americans have kids they can't afford because reasons, half of Americans have CC debt for recreational things, shop at high price rates at the local WholeFoods, half of Americans have this and that. As a man you can hold out on any of those things. A cheap used 90s Toyota, a single bed-room apartment in the 'Burbs, as well as an education in something usefull (college degrees for law/medicin/MINT/accounting only otherwise the trades) will carry even the most broke man through his 20s and then you can afford saving $ 1000 a month. The minimum wage is around $ 15 per hour. 160 hours a month will earn you at McD $ 2100. after tax and expenses, food, internet, health insurance, you still have 500 to save.
[deleted] 5y ago
MORE than half of Americans have no savings, live paycheck to paycheck, and have more CC debt than they can afford to pay off.
jackandjill22 5y ago
I thought it was $400, also 20% of the population own 80% of the stocks. Americans on average are mostly broke AF.
[deleted] 5y ago
Exactly. Most Americans are wired to just keep spending money they don't have, to impress people they don't care about. Everyone should have a rainy day fund and investments. You should never truly be living paycheck to paycheck.
halfback910 5y ago
Just put your money in indices. Dollar cross average. If you throttle up your investment during a downturn it's like free money. And you don't have to do any negotiations like this guy.
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Thelonelywindow 5y ago
Will research into that. Thank you :) have a good day!
uwey 5y ago
$45k cash should be safest in smaller house with low mortgage, like 20% of your annual income should you able to handle it.
So let’s say good location 300k house. 10% down payment is 30k, smart way is to buy foreclosure home. Someone was paying that for 15 year and lost it, time to make money.
So tax value is 450k, but the bid is around 200k (the sucker pay for 10+ year and fold), now get the bid and get loan for 250k, close it with $210, pay the fee and your cash. Save some and plan to innovation within 6 month and begin to rent out rooms.
Only issue is your time is not going to rig big money, probably double, but double if 400k still not much. If is trouble in 10 year sale, if is not keep. Simple as that.
Also plan work for Amazon before it gets too big and can’t afford to lobby anymore (free meat for politics scoping)
FrgElder 5y ago
Short the market. Learn how to trade options.
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LowCreddit 5y ago
If you read my response to WestLAStuff's comment, I mention oil field equipment can be bought for much cheaper and the industry is on hold for now. This means that small service companies are going to bust and sell their assets for cheap. Oil can't be kept at $20 forever. The price will rise again and new service companies will form and purchase that equipment again.
Another could be construction equipment. Bob had to sell his stuff to someone. I would bet he got fleeced there as well. That would be more than $45k for what he was using, but the idea carries.
I used the commercial property because it is something I have personal experience with and can be done almost anywhere. When you talk about smaller amounts of money, you have to be more aware of businesses in the area.
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 5y ago
I've been buying equipment and supplies both to use and to flip at construction equipment auctions. Examples: $15,000 tracked trenching machine for $2000; a bolt came loose and a belt came off, 10 minute fix. A pallet of concrete utility vaults $200+ each new for $40. Sold 6 for $90 each kept the rest for my ranch. Also a $2000 pole pig transformer for $25, sold it to a tesla coil maker for $600.
Yungster51x50 5y ago
How does someone apply this to their financial situation when they have no money to begin with
stevecapw 5y ago
First you figure out why you have no money, and what you can do to fix that.
z2a1-9 5y ago
Okay, how much pussy did that get you?
kevisazombie 5y ago
Thats how it works if you put the loans in your personal entity or a sole proprietorship entity instead of a proper corporate entity.
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 5y ago
Do you have real world experience here? It's an accelerating trend that corporate officers must personally guarantee performance of corporate loans and other obligations like leases. Also "piercing the corporate veil" is not legally difficult at this point.
Dudewheresmymoto1 5y ago
I'm very bearish on the red-pill finance idea I've seen endorsed by Rian and others of using leverage to flip houses/real estate.
So should I do the same thing you did? Buy a corporate property and acquire 400k in debt? What if businesses decide to extend work from home policies through 2021? What if businesses realize that brick and mortar/office space is vastly overestimated and reduce the amount of offices/storefronts they rent? You're holding the bag like Bob did; maybe in 2008 the move was a little better than a gamble, but there's still a nontrivial amount of risk involved. Anyone that's not naive realizes the sentence "I was able to turn it around..." is either due to a gamble that paid off or from thorough, comprehensive due diligence (which is not mentioned here). I would almost never take an 8% mortgage unless I had enough capital to eat the mortgage payments for at least a year.
And finally, the answer to the question "how do you go from a small fish to a bug fish" is to invest everything into your career or business and maximize your income as well as save as much as possible. This takes years of work and sacrifice. The only short cut is to take speculative risks like using leverage to flip houses: if they pay off good for you, but I haven't seen a good case yet for how it's a reliable, low-risk way of generating income. Making investments with existing capital is relatively easy compared to acquiring said capital in the first place.
stevecapw 5y ago
Agreed. If anyone wants a no BS book on wealth building, read The Millionaire Next Door.
NEW_JERSEY_PATRIOT 5y ago
Don't buy any stocks right now... Wait for the second drop.
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