Hey, guys, a buddy of mine just went through a breakup and is literally “back on the market” struggling to understand what he’s doing wrong. Most of us have been there. I gave him a long and detailed explanation on SMV; he grasped the concept really quickly so I’m hoping it will help someone.
Keep in mind this is meant to only cover this topic and NO OTHER topic of RP theory. The idea is to let him digest this in small pieces and not overwhelm him with the entire theory at once:
It’s all a bargaining game; whether either of you realize it or not you are making a deal by bartering with each other. You both have a sexual market value. Women bargain with sex and men bargain with love/commitment.
She wants to give you as little sex as possible while getting as much commitment possible. While you want as much sex as possible with as little commitment as possible. If you tell her you just want to fuck then you are demanding a very high price from her while offering almost nothing in return. If you have a high sexual market value (chiseled abs, perfect smile, etc) then you can get away with this, but 90% of men don’t. This works the other way too, if she has a low sexual market value then it’s easier to get her into bed because she can’t demand a high price.
So if you give her some emotional investment like friendly conversations, hanging out, etc then you will eventually meet her price and get laid. Her price is almost always going to be less than having to become her bf. Ideally you want to demonstrate a high sexual market value in order to pay as little as possible. But as time goes on if you keep seeing each other you’ll both need to keep investing more to feel like you’re getting a return on your investment. So you’ll eventually need to start getting serious unless you increase/maintain your sexual market value and/or reject her price.
So basically if you ask for sex in your opening statement then you’re demanding a price before you’ve shown her what you offer. The female equivalent of this would be a girl asking you to be her boyfriend, but not offer you any sex. She knows you’re not her bf when she fucks you the first time and you can just tell her “no thanks” when she wants to get serious if she even keeps you around.
At the very start of your interaction the woman has a measurable sexual market value because men are visually stimulated, but the man doesn’t have any immediately recognizable value unless he’s famous or male model material. So you’re making your pitch while she’s determining your value and how much she is willing to “pay”, if anything. This is where you show your value before asking your “price” of sex.
If a salesman comes to your door with a product that doesn’t make you immediately think “I want this” & you know nothing about, and he just says “Do you want to buy this?” You’ll say no.

Zech4riah 6y ago
Yup, this applies to beta males. I guess this whole post was for beta males.
When she perceives you as a high ranking alpha or even "the best she can do", she will fuck you just to get your attention and validation without demanding any commitment.
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ebaymasochist 6y ago
Women enjoy sex. Sex is the prize for women as well as men. The things that keep people from hooking up immediately all over the place are called 'inhibitions'. Inhibitions cannot fully be overcome just by having higher SMV. For example, most women would not leave their children behind to go be with Brad Putt or George Clooners.
From wikipedia:. A sexual inhibition is a conscious or subconscious constraint or curtailment by a person of behavior relating to specific sexual matters or practices, a discussion of sexual matters or viewing certain sexual material. To some extent such inhibitions may arise from cultural and social influences and conditioning, as well as from personal factors, including sexual orientation. In most partner relationships, the level of inhibition tends to decrease the higher the level of trust that develops between the partners. Such inhibitions also tend to decrease with improvements in a person’s confidence in their sexuality. A person may take a drug, such as alcohol, to reduce their level of inhibition.
Though a person can be regarded as being sexually inhibited if they irrationally fear of or are excessively averse to any sexual practice or discourse, the term is normally not applied to a person who refrains from certain sexual activities on moral and rational grounds (such as desire to avoid pregnancy or contracting a disease) or due to a psychological disorder. A person may also refrain from sexual activity with a particular person by choice or because of a simple disliking of that person, for whatever reason. The person whose advances are rejected may dismiss the rejection as being due to a sexual inhibition.
On the other hand, a person may be regarded as having low sexual inhibitions when they welcome a variety of non-conventional erotic practices. Hypersexuality is typically associated with lowered sexual inhibitions, and alcohol and some drugs can affect a person's social and sexual inhibitions
lifeintraining 6y ago
I think this is exactly why women bargain with sex in the sexual market. Social influences tell them they should be all be “good girls” so they understand (usually unconsciously) that their sexuality is valuable. So I’d argue that having a high SMV can easily cause a girl to overcome her sexual inhibitions because she’s willing to “pay more” for a higher value mate.
ebaymasochist 6y ago
The problem I have with the main post is the same problem with this comment- it implies that women do not enjoy sex and view it as a sacrifice they make for something else, something outside of sex itself. It frames sex as men taking something from the woman instead of giving to her.
lifeintraining 6y ago
Women DO want sex, but when is the last time you heard a girl say “that socially awkward guy with the yugi-oh card collection really gets me frothy”? Yet, how often have you heard a woman say “Johnny Sins could do anything he wants to my body”? She’s going to give head, do anal, and be bisexual for a man with that kind of value.
The point isn’t that women don’t want sex, it’s that they’re only willing to give sex to men of higher value unless that man can offer something else in exchange (betabucks).
So to put it in everyday terms: I’m at the grocery store and I’m hungry. I WANT to spend my money, but if I don’t see anything that looks good I’m going somewhere else. I’m going to pay more for a good rib-eye than I will for a head of cabbage.
ebaymasochist 6y ago
Johnny Sins has high value to some women, others would view him as a sex worker and not respect him. There are other men who are better looking than Sinn and have better jobs who are around hot women.
We're talking about separate things here. A woman's willingness to be very sexually adventurous is not attached to the man's value. It's attached to his attitude towards sex. His ability to let her be a whore without judging her, talking about her, shaming her, etc. Women arent thinking "he's not good enough for me to do this", they're thinking "he's not going to respect me anymore if I degrade myself like this, so I'm not going to" or "this guy talks about every woman he's ever been with as a dumb slut, I can't trust him to do kinky shit and not ruin my reputation". But it also depends on the situation because if she's really turned on because the sex is good, she will do things she wouldn't normally do.
It's complicated. There's a lot of things that happen between a woman determining you meet her standards and then actually having sex or not.
lifeintraining 6y ago
Yeah, the take away is that it is complicated and everybody determines value differently which is why even the biggest players get turned down a lot. However you can give yourself a broad market appeal by getting in shape and having tight game. Maybe not every girl wants that, but most of them do.
A salesman won’t close every single lead, but a good salesman is going to try to have as much broad appeal as possible to close as many sales as possible.
Here’s the other thing too; almost all women don’t understand this dynamic even though they’re constantly involved in it. Think of the millions of sheep that fall prey to advertising and buy something without considering what made them want to buy it. It’s the same thing.
Women don’t consciously think “he’s not good enough for me to do this”, but that’s exactly what they’re doing. A man who talks negatively about every girl he sleeps with to other women is an idiot because he is divebombing his SMV.
IAmTheOneWhoSlaps 6y ago
I have a few friends who could really use a good bit of redpilling, but it is hard to explain it without sounding super "mysogynistic" or whatever the fuck blue pill white knights love saying. I loved the way you just explained SMV. It's simple, there is no way to argue against it and no one can complain about it, not even white-knights. I'd love it if you keep us updated in case you do end up redpilling your friend.
lifeintraining 6y ago
Thanks, tbh I’m still a novice to RP theory myself so it’ll be slow going since I have some things to work on.
dynospectrum7 6y ago
Man I'm telling you as much as you want those friends to get red pilled, they need to experience it on their own.
I have a friend that literally put his fingers in his ears when I said something as innocuous as: "stop putting women on a pedestal"
redditor78477847 6y ago
People are more open to the red pill ideology when they have just been burned and they are trying to figure out what went wrong. It's at moments like those that they question their bluepill belief systems and are generally more open to new ideas.
Wait for them to get themselves into a mess and then you help them out by unplugging them.
Vloneturtle 6y ago
This part:
"If a salesman comes to your door with a product that doesn’t make you immediately think “I want this” & you know nothing about, and he just says “Do you want to buy this?” You’ll say no."
​
So true!
laredditcensorship 6y ago
In God we trust.In stocks we trust.In socks we trust.
NoodlesTheClown 6y ago
One should always be increasing is own market value. Try like the devil to become unobtanium. Be a Berkshire Hathaway "A" class. Women want what they perceive as unobtainable. They want what they can't have. You do it by putting her at the bottom of your list of priorities. Be that guy, and you'll have your pick of the litter.
laredditcensorship 6y ago
In God we trust.In stocks we trust.In socks we trust.
omega_dawg93 6y ago
as my sister says, "girls want a challenge and will work for what they think is valuable."
when men walk up and just offer women EVERYTHING, they come across as needy, creepy, and desperate, etc.
make women work for your time & attention. give them dick freely... but don't give up your time & attention (what women actually value in men) until she earns it.
NoodlesTheClown 6y ago
Your sister provided you with empirical proof of what we know to be true. Have an upvote.
AgreeableHelicopter2 6y ago
That's why I always tell guys to QUALIFY WOMEN
omega_dawg93 6y ago
men want S.E.X.
women want T.A.R... time + attention + resources.
do NOT give-up your TAR without getting her SEX.
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_-resonance-_ 6y ago
☝
NoodlesTheClown 6y ago
Thankie. I'm happily married, but even before I met my wife, I had been redpilled for several years. So, my mindset was essentially, "I don't give a fuck about what chicks think about me. I'm doing my own thing regardless. If I get laid, it's because a chick came onto me, instead of me chasing her like a bitch." When you get that attitude in your head, you'd be amazed by how much positive attention you get.
Nothing makes a chick wetter than a guy who TRULY (as in, not pretending) doesn't give a fuck about whether she likes him or not.
_-resonance-_ 6y ago
Wondering about the shit-/comfort-test dynamic in your relationship. Sounds like you have established overt leadership. Is this correct?
NoodlesTheClown 6y ago
You're correct. I'm not my wife's puppy dog, and she loves it that way. Her shit tests are quite simple to navigate. She doesn't ever attempt to disrespect me. Her shit tests are usually along the lines of making sure I'm willing to be the one who is decisive. I routinely get comments from her like, "I'm so happy you aren't a little bitch like all the guys on my team", referring to her coworkers.
Be a stoic. A man of few words. Be decisive, and always carry a sense of serene confident calmness, especially amidst the chaos of life.
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Fulp_Piction 6y ago
The whole 'wants to give you as little sex as possible' thing is a bit misguided. Girls want to fuck, but they can't fuck everyone lest they be a slut, easy etc. It's all reputation, if you can fuck her without her looking like a slut to people (yourself included sometimes), you're golden. Thats why these things 'just happen', and have to be your fault. It's mental gymnastics so she can tell herself she's a good girl really. She doesn't normally do this, remember.
If a girl tries to weaponise sex she's trying to gain control, either because she has a screw loose or she feels like she has none.
The rest is pretty spot on.
lifeintraining 6y ago
Maybe the semantics could use some work, but when I say “sex” it’s meant to be a broad and encompassing term. A high value male is going to get every sexual fantasy he wants fulfilled whereas a low value male has to beg for a blowjob. It could also be something very simple like touching your arm or pushing out her chest so you look at her breasts. This is their bargaining power.
Fulp_Piction 6y ago
I get you, gatekeepers of sex, gatekeepers of emotion etc.
Value leads to options, options lead to abundance, abundance leads to good sex.
redditor78477847 6y ago
They only genuinely want to fuck the guys with superior genetics (really good-looking guys, socially dominant guys,high status guys). Basically the top male genetic specimens. However the sex they have with men who commit is mostly transactional, so they do it just enough to keep a male committed. That's why the sex tapers off in LTRs or marriages.
Fulp_Piction 6y ago
Nope, you don't much if any of those to inspire genuine desire, just be enough so that she's punching above her weight. Commitment doesn't equal shit sex. If she knows you'll up and leave if she doesn't put in the effort she'll put in the effort - frame is the first iron rule of Tomassi for a reason.
i-am-the-prize 6y ago
+1 Frame, boundaries, and being high value = (her) Briffaults law aligns with your wants.
"if she knows you will righteously leave, she will righteously stay" - Patrice O'Neal
raja--rancho 6y ago
Above smv concept (invest to benifit) can be summarized on a decimal scale:
Low pointer girl: Either keeper or has higher SMV
High pointer girl: Either daddy's issues or has lower SMV
Low pointer guy: Either fuckboy or has higher SMV
High pointer guy: Either ideal beta hubby or has lower SMV
lifeintraining 6y ago
Would you mind explaining this a little more?
raja--rancho 6y ago
With your above context on the bf(provider) and sex, It can be noted that:
1. With long time investment in her, if she's still reluctant to sex:
Either she's virgin Mary Stacy or she's using guy as a low smv provider (beta soyboy).
2. With just first interaction, if she already zipped down her pants:
Either she is Miley Cyrus level feminist with daddy issues, or you have high smv (hotshot model/pro athlete).
Hope you got the drill.
lifeintraining 6y ago
Got it, thanks for the clear explanation.
raja--rancho 6y ago
Also what you think about importance of career when it comes to smv?
As career=money=resources=provider, which takes you at high level on hypergamy. And those frame, abs, personality becomes second.
lifeintraining 6y ago
It depends on the girl. I think we all have a different “formula” for how we perceive SMV. This is why even the best players get turned down so often. Our goal is to appeal to as broad of an audience as possible so we can have our pick of mate. So being wealthy definitely doesn’t hurt, but I think for our purposes of finding a short-term mate it doesn’t make much difference.
I make six-figures and have a net worth of over $300K and I can comfortably say that it has only gotten me laid twice. I feel like nowadays having money doesn’t matter as much in SMV since women can easily have their own careers and money.
I’ve been in sales my whole adult life so the concept of SMV and positioning or “selling” directly ties to my career. Knock on 10 doors and make your product seem as valuable as possible.
raja--rancho 6y ago
I got your point, that until the inflation hits roof or one dating in rural areas, certain figure salary becomes eligibility rather than boost in the game.
But in LTR, I guess money has last laugh, until one is local alpha political leader or senior white house staff.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/07/top-jobs-lead-to-divorce-for-women-but-not-for-men/
lifeintraining 6y ago
Yeah, I agree. In an LTR money is important, because the woman wants a provider and the betaboy is better at giving this. So if she’s making good money then he has little value.
redditor78477847 6y ago
Agreed. If there is an obvious SMV imbalance with you being way higher up than her, she will be more motivated to fuck you to keep you around. The sex still qualifes as transactional sex. She only fucks you to keep you committed, not becoz she truly considers you to be a genetically superior man
odue 6y ago
What about women that do not look for commitment? That would be the ultimate goal, according to your argumentation. Then both offer and demand only sex. Would you be happy this way?
redditor78477847 6y ago
If she is not looking for commitment it means she will be concerned with securing the best genes her level of attractiveness affords her. The short term mating strategy is the priority at that point and she is looking for really good-looking guys,or dominant alphas, or preselected high status men.
huggyblossom 6y ago
Younger girls (16-25) rarely look for commitment. It's just pure sex that is on the table.
DareyFathom 6y ago
Yeah IME many younger women don't want committment until their value has started to decline.
lifeintraining 6y ago
I’d bet that these women perceive themselves as having low SMV so they offer a lot upfront. Girls with low self esteem & daddy issues. Basically the female equivalent of a beta. I’m open to other thoughts.
AgreeableHelicopter2 6y ago
Yup low self esteem + high sex drive
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steadygrowingbonsai 6y ago
I love this explanation. Really put it together nicely, well done
90DaysDiary 6y ago
If you're actually seeing the way you interact with women like 'put in friendly conversation/time/attention until a price is met and she gives you sex' I totally disagree, but it's an interesting topic to have a discussion about.
IMO SMV is (put very simplistically): (Looks + 'Money' + Status + some smaller things) * 'Game' (how do you pitch your value. Think for this as a number between 0 (sitting in a basement alone) and a number higher than 1 (you're actually overselling yourself with 'tricks')). How high your SMV needs to be a interesting to girl X depends on how high she perceives your SMV to be, the competition in your local SMplace and her own perceived SMV.
TheGreatConst 6y ago
But this is how most guys get laid in the first place. This is how you get laid when a girl considers you of the same or lower value. You compensate the lack of value with your commitment. If a girl searching for a boyfriend, then she is trying to find a guy who is the best in terms of balance between his value and his commitment. Only if she perceives you "above her league" would she fuck without any commitment from your side. But, of course, there is a point when putting more commitment only lowers your value.
lifeintraining 6y ago
Yeah, you’re totally accurate. Next time I talk to him we’re going to talk about how to increase his perceived SMV. For now I just want him to understand the truth of this before we talk about how he can use it to his advantage. The poor guy was asking very basic questions and not understanding why he was getting ghosted.
oiltank 6y ago
What about women that only want sex without commitment? How does this logic apply then?
BIGFACTS98 6y ago
No woman only wants sex without commitment. If she’s not trying to commit to you, it means you aren’t high value enough
oiltank 6y ago
You clearly havent met some of the sluts I used to hang around with.
BIGFACTS98 6y ago
I don’t see how that contradicts my point. Yeah there are some girls who may be more promiscuous but ultimately her basic biological drive and the structure of her brain is built for her to find the highest value male and reproduce with him.
If she isn’t doing it with you it means you aren’t that guy. She may see you as high value enough for the sex, but not see you as high value enough to chase your commitment.
redditor78477847 6y ago
Women who only want sex without commitment are concerned with the alpha fucks side of hypergamy in that situation. Her priority at that point is getting the best genes her level of attractiveness affords her
oiltank 6y ago
Which sounds pretty reasonable and sound thing to do. Yet a girl who fucks around is considered low smv, what gives
raja--rancho 6y ago
Just posted a comment on that logic. The girl is either has "lower SMV" compared to yours or has "daddy's issues".
oiltank 6y ago
So imagine you go to a bar in a nordic country (sex without commitment is common) and find a 10/10 tall, model-like, college educated, highly financially independent young woman looking for "just sex".
Would you rate her as low SMV? Definitely not. Then her daddy didn't pay her enough attention while growing up?
ebaymasochist 6y ago
The whole post frames women as wanting the least amount of sex possible and only wanting commitment. So women are sacrificing sex, and men take it away from them, to get something else in return. It's not abundance mentality, it's not the reality of sex today, it's not red pill, it's how mainstream religious society talked about sex 50 years ago. Once you are good at having sex and making women cum, that all goes out the window.
raja--rancho 6y ago
Not only fatherhood but masculinity is literally absent in those feminist liberal Nordic countries.
https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/political-correctness/the-gender-scandal-part-one-scandinavia-and-part-two-canada/
Xornor 6y ago
My home country, Finland, is not known about absence of masculinity - on the contrary, but women have been here quite free always. It is true that masculinity of the male population has been decreasing, but that does not happen because of feminism, but just protected and easy life in general. If you play games in home whole your youth, you will not be very masculine adult.
raja--rancho 6y ago
but just protected and easy life in general
Modernism-->Consumerism-->Comfort-->Invirility-->Liberalism-->Emasculation-->Feminism.
EscobapRablo 6y ago
I don't find this is entirely correct. You still need to be top 20% of guys to get laid. If a woman finds you visually attractive (Alpha), she would want your genetics, and fuck you unless you're completely autistic
ChadMini 6y ago
visually attractive doesn't make you alpha. The top 0% guys in looks are usually pussy whipped cucks. More like 5% top men in what i've seen.
custoscustodis 6y ago
I think the top 40% gets laid, but as the OP mentioned, they'll have to invest more time and $$$. Women will want them, but for the bank account. In this case, her value is inflated 10X.
Andrew54321 6y ago
Top 20% within the context. If you can control your environment then this is easy.
lifeintraining 6y ago
Any guy can get laid even if it doesn’t mean he’ll be banging 9’s and 10’s. It all depends on how well his “pitch” shows his value. As long as he can present himself as a valuable mate then he can get girls with equal/lower value easily. Girls with higher value need more of an “investment”. So the point of RP theory is to show your value through playing the game well.
You’re right about the top 20% of guys getting laid easily because they immediately have inherent value, but all that means is they don’t NEED to be good at game.
EscobapRablo 6y ago
However, if you have are a just unattractive (fat, short etc), no matter what game you have, I still think only money can get you laid (beta game).
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pyth0ns 6y ago
For those that don't understand SMV, I point them to watch the sequence from Crazy, Stupid, Love - when Gossling ups Carell SMV by the wardrobe, gym and how he talks to women.
It is then on them, if they want to continue this path and research further/etc.
Obediah_Stane 6y ago
This is exactly why marriage is such a shit deal. Because a woman can renege on this market transaction by refusing sex while still demanding a man's commitment and if the man doesn't play ball then government will come in and fuck him. A deal only works if both parties do what is promised. If not and the other party is still forced to provide their services, this is the literal definition of slavery. Never get married.
Xornor 6y ago
If this transaction theory is correct, the most men are just very bad making deals. For example, sex couple of times in a year for a complete commitment.
redditor78477847 6y ago
Male SMV should be divided into two categories. Short term mating value( based on the quality of ones genes- depends on the level of physical attractiveness, alphaness (social dominance) or preselection level of the individual) and long term mating value( based on ability to provide and protect. Depends on the wealth,status and position in the dominance hierarchy of the individual)
vwowv 6y ago
IMO, the strongest thing to know here is women's side of the negotiation is typically measured by sight. No need for her to say a word because words are not what she's selling. Mens is time, and commitment which is demonstrated by being around and saying things with value.
I was considering writing a post on how women are not really the gatekeepers, it just seems that way. The above is why. Women are only the gatekeepers to men who think their bargaining power is via womans sight, as they know it is for women. This is why I like to frequent downtown places several times before I ever friend up with locals or bar staff. I'm anteing commitment without saying a word. It's then easier to build on top with words. Then social proof kicks in and makes it easier to talk to people who come in to the bar/establishment.
Largely, it appears that women are the gatekeepers because during a cold pickup men have to say things and women don't. Brad Pitt is the gate keeper based on looks. "The man!" at the bar is the gatekeeper by presence mixed with social proof. Patrice Oneil is the gatekeeper by gab. The later two are forms of commitment. Arguably Brad Pitt is too, women want even a moment of his time.
redditor78477847 6y ago
Women are the gatekeepers to sex. They decide when and who it happens with. This holds true for 80% of the male population,the bottom of the barrel guys. These guys have to go through hoops and they have prove they are committed before they are rewarded with sex. Only the top 20% of men have women throwing themselves at them.
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73HUIW 6y ago
hey, why this community is quarantined?