My father grew up without his parents because they went to another place so they could earn more money. He was raised by his grandfather and when he was 16, he went to europe for a better life. His parents choose him a wife (arranged marriage). He is a disciplined hard working man, works in production but he worked his ass off in order to give us ( his children ) a better life. He bought a big house with a garden and provided his family everything. He was a very strict father, very violent and we feared him. He was violent towards my mum and us. He had many flaws but i understand why he was the way he was. He grew up without his parents in a little primitive village. I visited this village several times and many people there have personal issues ( but also good personal traits ). I take responsibility for my own flaws but i can't deny the fact that my dad influenced me and my siblings in many bad ways.

He was this classic strict conservative father but he got upset for dumb reasons. For example one time he just beated the shit out of me because i couldn't spell a word correctly when i was in 1st class.

I forgive him but he had the opprtunity to change his behaviours. He didn't do it for whatever reason. I'm grateful that i question myself and try to own my mistakes unlike him + i found rp and likeminded from whom knowledge i can benefit.

It isn't my father I need to forgive; it's my grandfather.

He was the one who wasn't present when my dad was growing up; he was the one who let my dad grow up without a strong male role model; he was the one who realised far too late this his son was only a man because there wasn't a word for a grown man behaving like a young boy.

But he was earning a good living. It probably never even occurred to him he could be doing damage.

Yeah, I came to terms with that as well. When I began TRP, I was a little bitter that Dad hadn't been there to really discipline me when it counted, which was when I was little. I quickly realized that this is ludicrous and felt guilty. He did the best that he could with the remaining time he had working 10+ hours in a pharmacy plant. He's one of the hardest working men I know and in return, he gets an incredibly nagging wife (love Mom to death but it is what it is lol).

It absolutely broke my heart when Dad became extremely depressed because I knew he wanted something else with his life (who doesn't?) and I was afraid he was contemplating suicide. We never talked much or opened up to each other but one day we decided to go to the movies and afterwards we had a heart to heart. Now he's a lot happier and a lot more open. He has never denied me anything and has given me a bed, food and a roof. I realize I'm luckier than most and I can't thank Dad enough for that.

Good post, OP, got a bit teary-eyed writing this lol

Longtime lurker on this subreddit. This subreddit has helped me put A LOT of different things into perspective in my life, and I’m immensely appreciative of it. However, with Father’s Day less than a few hours away, as a 28M still to this day I’m torn between how I perceive my dad as a parent. Hopefully some fellow red-pill’ers can chime in their view.

My dad went leaps and bounds to keep our labour-intensive family business thriving, then barely afloat, then doing well again, for over 25 years. Always making sure we had decent food in the house/could go to quality restaurants every now and then. Growing up in my household, I can’t recall one day where I didn’t have access to quality food. However, he drank a fuck ton of alcohol, was verbally and physically abusive, and just flat out intimidating. This I do not hold too harshly against him, because for what it’s worth it did teach me discipline in certain areas of my life, and I feel it contributed to giving me a natural/strong instinctual sense of being able to do the right thing whenever I feel pressure in situations (in addition, I did some stupid shit as a kid that probably caused me to deserve a beating at times). What fucks me up the most though, to this day, is that up until I got kicked outta the house at 19, around 3-8 times a month I was being sexually molested by him. I knew from the first time I can recall experiencing it at 5 years old that, even though I couldn’t put it into words at the time, something was very wrong and I was being gravely violated...while simultaneously feeling completely powerless to do anything about it. Even though every time after it was done I tried to convince myself that it was a normal thing to experience, and basically say to myself “it’s not that big of a deal”, the reality is that I badly wanted to speak up against it but was too scared to do so. Still to this day I beat myself up over the fact that I was such a pussy at that age to not say anything. I did speak to him about it around 5 years ago, and despite him somewhat downplaying it, he did apologize for it. Despite this, my feelings of resentment towards him for those years of the sexual abuse still continue to linger in me. Perhaps the alcohol had something to do with him doing it - such as impairing his basic judgements- but I just feel like when you do that to a child, you’re basically saying you don’t give a fuck if they grow up fucked up mentally and never feel like a true man.

For what it means to be a man, I do see my dad as an alpha - always swiftly finds solutions to problems, has respect from other family members/friends/my mom, is giving to others, access to resources, etc. - however as a PARENT and for his actions as a parent, I can’t help but view a lot of the shit he’s done as flat out unforgivable injustices. What’s even more odd is that in recent years he’s been encouraging to me, saying I’m his pride/his strength, telling others I’m gonna be something big, blah blah blah, yet to me it goes in one ear and out the other coming from him because I can’t help but just see what he did as a parent when I think of him (in addition, he was NEVER encouraging to me growing up like he is in recent years, so naturally I think he’s being fake/just saying it so it ‘makes’ him look good as a parent).

As of today, I haven’t spoken to him since last November, didn’t wish him happy birthday last month. Despite him trying to call me on and off within the time frame since. I’m torn between letting the past be the past and allowing him to be a part of my life for the reason that life is too short, versus my belief that accepting him around my life would cause me to continuously relive those past abuses/childhood memories and continuously make me feel like less of a man.

I’ve also tried the therapist/counselling route- without any luck.

I’ve been trying to make sense of this whole thing for years. Am I being a beta? Am I giving too much power to someone, and some past events, that are only gonna screw me over in the long run? Water under the bridge?

Thanks

It’s important to remember we shouldn’t direct our anger out to our parents.

Of course they couldn’t teach us this.

They came from a different time, how could they teach us for something they never faced?

Times changed, and we got the internet but you know what else we got?

Hindsight.

We got hindsight and that’s what let us participate as reactionary to this post modernism.

Why do you have to forgive your father? What if he was a genuine, narcissist piece of shit?

I don’t want to go on a “woe is me, feel bad for me” rant. But I can’t really forgive my dad under the circumstances. I just accepted what happened and moved on.

My dad would put his girlfriends over me when I was a kid, and let them walk all over me. He never showed up to my custody hearing in court, so my mom got full privileges. He never called me, never sent me Christmas gifts, never talked to me on my birthday. The few times I did see him, he was playing World of Warcraft for 12 hours a day and barely talking to me except when he left the computer.

I just lived with him recently. I was 20-21. He lost his job 6 months into me living with him. Stopped paying rent and any bills whatsoever, which led to me working 60 hours a week at 2 fast food places to pay every bill and have no money leftover to save because it all went to bills, meanwhile, he sat at home on the couch doing nothing. i couldn’t save up money for myself, let alone go to college because of the situation I was in. He was literally holding my life hostage. He never thanked me once. All he told me was “don’t expect me to pay you back.” He even saw me walking back home from work in the snow and it was 4 degrees out, and he just kept driving, then he told me “hey I saw you walking earlier!” Thanks for the ride douchebag.

He’d be angry or upset at something and I’d try to ask him what’s wrong, which would lead to him freaking out on me for simply asking him a question. I tried to help and console him and instead I got shit on. Everything I ever did to try and be nice to him he shat on me for it. It genuinely confused me and he’s the only person I’ve ever met who has been like that. It’s even worse considering he’s mean like that to his own child but not to random people.

some of us have genuine piece of shit fathers/families that had fuck all to do with raising us. I find it hard to forgive. I grew a LOT from it and holy shit did I become a man super fast, and became way more mature than most guys my age (22) but can any of the older gentlemen here give me some advice with that? is it worth forgiving them? i merely just accepted the fact, and moved on.

jesse lee peterson says the same. forgive your mother and father to get rid of their emotional baggage

Just talked to my dad for almost 2 hours about life, women and purpose then I saw this. Everything happens for a reason!

I'm seeing a lot of alcohol abuse as a theme in the comments. I don't have any kids, but it's getting me thinking about my own relationship with alcohol. I wonder if I gave it up if I'd miss it.

I’m in the middle of understanding it was necessary to forgive my father, and I have had multiple times where I’ve forgiven him to his face, and I’ve done it within myself. But it’s not necessary to then take the forgiveness and try to salvage a relationship that will never change. I’m only burning myself again after making these steps in levels of awareness.

There is a belief driving me that once I forgive, it’s then time to mend and rehabilitate. Just because I love the guy and accept and love him for what he has done and who he is, doesn’t mean a relationship with him going forward is going to help benefit my own personal growth.

Don’t forgive and forget, or forgive and never forget. Just forgive, and recognize when to keep moving on.

I’d venture to guess everyone here has their daddy issues, I certainly do. I like your posts and appreciate this one, it put things into perspective simply in a way I hadn’t thought of before.

And maybe to the rest of us, we can take a lesson. Forgiving your father and his failure no matter how badly, is for YOU. If you’re not speaking to him, or he’s dead, it doesn’t matter. All that matters if you’ve made peace with yourself and let go to be someone bigger, better and more accomplished.

My father is a very flawed man, and he always rubbed me the wrong way growing up. Today I am happy to say I have become a proper man with the help of some hard learned lessons, good male role models and from TRP. I now have a lot of respect for my father and the challenges in his life. He always lived in the shadow of my mother who was vastly more successful. And I see now that he was emasculated and didn't know any better because his generation was awkwardly stuck in the middle of a patriarchal society and the true sexual/social liberation of women. He was always a compassionate man who loved me very much but didn't know how to show it. He also stands to me as an example of the kind of man I don't want to become.

Don't forget tomorrow is fathers day. As men we need to help raise up and appreciate other men, because no one else will. Don't forget to give your old man a call or visit.

It is really interesting reading everyone's different stories.

Everyone red pills for different reasons, but I reckon one of the best reasons is to ensure if you're ever a dad yourself, you do it right.

If you're strong, confident and have self respect, you're going to do a way better job of parenting your kids. You're going to be a better provider, you're going to have a stronger relationship with your spouse and you're going to be able to parent your child by leading through example rather than resorting to violence or abdicating responsibility.

.

I want to share something that I realized this year.

My dad died when I was ten(I am 26 now). He was a good man and very hard working. But he let himself get dragged by circumstances, he drank a lot and did not spend much time with me when he was alive, almost zero. And that made me very sad. And he also kicked the shit out of me, a lot.

I still miss him to this day and I wish I could speak to him at least once, I wasn't able to say goodbye, I just cried like a little bitch when his friend drove him to our home because he got another heart attack. He died, doctors were able to bring him back, drove him to a hospital where he died after a couple of days, at least peacefully, in sleep.

So I grew up without a role model and had to figure out everything myself. It was pretty tough sometimes, the biggest issue I am facing is that I just cannot connect with my male friends, I have no problem with women, but when I see other guys having deep relationships with their buddies I kinda envy them because I really don't know how to do it.

But despite all of that I wanted to say that I think I am better of without him. I think that if I had his influence I would be better at talking and connecting with guys but other than that, his presence would do more harm than good. The fact that he left me in all this shit alone, made me tough and self-reliant because I had no other choice.

So, dad, I forgive you for leaving me so early, you don't own me anything. You brought me to this world, rest is up to me.

I find this hard to do since my fathers problem isn't that he was something like blue pilled in terms of intersexual dynamics, but with life mostly regarding money and finances. All my life as I've known him he has had a strong frame, he doesn't take shit from anyone, like at all, sometimes to the point where he would get angry even tho he has nothing of it and it would be wiser to let it go and move on with your life.

He has been unemployed for almost a decade (lost his job because the government took over the company he was working at and it basically went to shit), tried to make some money fixing cars since this is his hobby but could never be accounted for anything. Lost a lost of money which my mother and his in laws gave him so he could start the car business.

Today even tho my mother and father are still together that marriage a is stereotypical toxic and sexless marriage (sexless for a couple of years already). My mother doesn't have almost any respect since for the last 30 years he couldn't be accountable and provide for the family while she has provided for both me and my sister growing up for the little that we could have. I think that the only reason she hasn't divorced him already is because my mother comes from an extremely traditional and religious family.

I dare say that my fathers lack of providing, especially in my late teens has directly had a negative effect on almost every aspect of my life (for example i'm currently 23 and still don't have a drivers licence because we could never afford it).

Do not get me wrong i do not hold an active grudge, i have learned to live with the situation and looking to better my life everyday, in fact i finally landed a job in my field a few months ago and things are looking good in terms of me getting my life in order but i don't think that i will ever be able to simply "forgive". It is something that will always be there and the only thing i can do is just not pay attention to it and live my life.

I apologize for this rant but honestly it did feel a little better getting this out.

But... How about the fact that he became father when he was not ready? How about he tried to impose his insecurities and his lack of self respect on me when inwas growing up? How about he made me black sheep of family? How about he didn't let me have any friends when I was growing up, attacked me viciously when he became aware of any of female friends?

It cut me off from other people. I developed difficulty trusting people, having friends, developing relationships. I grew up to become loner and it's that way since. It's not easy my friend.

My father always chose my step mom over me. She was verbally abusive to me since she was the other woman my dad was seeing when he was married to my mother. I went to my grandparents about my nasty stepmom when my dad proposed to her. I always thought I was the problem growing up. It destroyed my confidence in all social environments.

My dad loved me when I was a kid but when I became a difficult teenager he never tried, like to do anything. Now that I’m an adult and dated mothers and seen my friends become parents etc. I can’t believe how my dad could choose pussy over me and abusive pussy who always talked shit about his only child. Idk if I can ever forgive him for that...

whats the point in forgiving him?

why does it show as "removed"? was it removed?

What about if you never knew your father and your mother never told you about him so you gave up and lived your life but sometimes wonder? Is it worth finding the answers or its better to just keep going with your life?

This may be true of some men. But many fathers were not like this. My father was selfish and did what he wanted, to the detriment of the rest of us.
I still recognise the need to forgive my father though. I don’t like him but I accept that he is not a bad person. He’s just confused and trying to do the best that he can, like most of us. What I find difficult is that I can forgive him in abstract. I no longer spend time retreading old ground in my head. I no longer feel resentment towards him. But I just don’t enjoy his company. He’s a very difficult man to spend time with.
I know I need to reach another level of acceptance. Another level of detachment so that I can appreciate him for the qualities he does have.

I like this post man, and I’m happy to be a part of this community.

My Dad passed away two years ago. He had a serious neurological disorder that was destroying his mind. The man that raised me was no longer the same person. He had flashes of his old self, but they were short and infrequent. I remember it was a Wednesday afternoon, and he hugged me and told me he loved me. The next morning he was dead, via a 9mm. I remember getting the call at work from my hysterical mother telling me I needed to leave work and come home immediately.

I don’t blame him for what he did. Losing your mind must be dreadfully terrifying, having the thing that makes you “you” slowly stripped away, piece by piece, until you’re just a husk waltzing around.

My Dad was a good man, and in retrospect (after reading this piece), I realise he did the best he could. We were always close, and I’m beyond grateful for what he gave me (food, shelter, advice). He always believed in me, and I suspect that’s why I usually bet on myself in most situations. It was difficult typing this on Father‘s day, but it was rather cathartic. Great article and thanks for posting.

Good post.

You can also forgive yourself for any emotions, anger, frustration that come up when pondering whether to forgive your father.

Let it rise up, sit with it quietly without judging yourself for having these feelings. Dont resist and just let it happen thoughtlessly.

I grew up in the perspective of my mother, since my parents are separated. I never knew what a father should be like as a man. While growing up without the presence of a father’s social responsibility, he did provide everything I needed: a decent shelter, food, etc. While we were never close in my years growing up, he was there, just in a different language of love.

I came to despise him for not being there emotionally, but I learned that a good man is there even when his sons do not appreciate his efforts.

We never talk in the personal sense of rapport building, but I learned that there are different unspoken languages to show support and value. “Man is as man does”. Actions speak louder than words.

Unlike most father-son relationships where emotional investments are apparent, though it saddens me that we never reached that point, I am glad to have a father that is supportive despite familial issues in the household. I may not say it to him in person, typing this is an outlet in itself, the best way to give back to all those efforts is to live on with his (last) name and be a better man than him.

Things aren’t as perfect as they seem, yet our parents are there even if we do not appreciate it. Happy Father’s Day. Everything they’ve come to be is for us to learn how to be a Man.

I can only imagine the many sacrifices my old man had to endure to bring up a bastard like me to a prestigious environment.

What to do when your father is a bad person? When he wants to destroy your mother through their children, with no signs of empathy. And until this day he doesn’t regret the domestic violence, the abandonment and the betrayal done to us. What to do then? He’s your father, you can’t remove him, you will be united, you don’t have control over that. However, I think you have control over you, accepting you had a bad person as a father is the first step to his redemption in your head.

There is a theory out there that Christianity is just a huge allegory around forgiving your dad and that Jesus is just a dude with daddy issues. I don't buy that, but it takes a lot from a guy to forgive his dad even though the sins of our fathers are not that pernicious.

I work in the construction industry as a plumber. Virtually no women are plumbers( we have 2 on the books in our local) a few months ago we were doing a water shutdown in a local hospital. Project manager (woman) and her intern(woman) were out the check up on us. We were in the process of hanging a 6” diameter x 20’ long piece of copper pipe (HEAVY) in the ceiling. The look on they’re faces . Only men could have done the task we did that night and they knew it even if they wouldn’t admit it. Happy Father’s Day gents!

Those are some sweeping generalizations there

My father is an awesome man, and a good man. Always in control of himself. Can fix anything. Plays multiple instruments and speaks multiple languages effortlessly. Refuses to criticize his kids, because he'd rather encourage them to keep trying, but also cannot be crossed. He loves my mother dearly, while also having and old flame that still wants his attention after decades.

I 100% lucked out having him. He is selfless out of strength. I can't even think of a single negative thing to say about him. He's a worthy leader.

Or a father can do nothing but knock down your self esteem, never try to teach you even the small time that he was around, make you feel the size of a crumb by stamping out any creativity, physically hurting you, gaslighting you, and being an all out psychopath.

Sometimes the best path is going your own way and NOT ever looking back.

Sometimes I question myself as a man.

Then I come across tidbits of information like this that confirm what I've already acknowledged and accepted.

Then I know I'm on the path.

I was angry at my now deceased father for some years; but now being older myself I understand why he did some things like becoming an alcoholic and basically drinking himself to death and dying from a non-functioning liver. It was to get away from my mother. They had a horrible marriage and I couldn't see it then but I do now, she (my mother) never gave sex for years. So in response my father basically refused to work and support her and went back on the bottle. They both had the wrong response to difficulties in their marital relationship. And it cost them and me and my brother, big time. I forgive him, and understand him, and have learned from his mistakes.

"Our fathers were our models for God. If our fathers bailed, what does that say about God?"

Just saying,best post i have seen on here in the times that i have actually been looking. Good on OP.

I enjoy reading the commentors dad stories also. Good healthy out pouring here.

I talked to my dad some today. I think i am breaking down some walls with him to actually get to know the real him.

A good man is subjective.

My father is a typical eastern europe macho who runs away from conflicts, has zero patience, is unproductive, lazy, an idiot, always angry and has a wife who pampers him like his mother.

I cannot remember him teaching me anything. It is true that I saw himself in myself and it disgusts me.

You say "that a boy will first get to know his father through the lens of his mother" which is funny since my father likes to tell me how I never respected him in my childhood and tells me in the same vein that it was my mothers fault.

Though I do forgive him for being how he is since he had his struggles and his negatives are only his insecurities projecting. In a way he is a good role model for how not to be a good role model from my perspective.

Really needed to see this post today, thank you for the content!

My dad has worked 70+ hors between his full time professional job and the family small business his whole life until recently so my mom could stay home with the kids. He takes so much shit from my younger siblings and my mom ever since I moved out a decade ago, but he carries on. He has a bit of a problem with emotional regulation, but damn is he a respectable guy.

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I really cannot forgive my father because he is a gambler and he brought undue stress unto my family. My mum is no angel but she scrimped and saved without her efforts we would probably be homeless as a family. I have a higher income and net worth than my father at 25. He's in his early fifties. He is a first gen immigrant but that's no excuse. The gambling is the cause of his lack of money.

My situation was extreme. My mother was a man hating lesbian feminist junkie thieving pimp who ripped me away from everything that was good in Wyoming when I was 10 and took me down to that shithole called Tampa, FL.

I confronted my father man to man for having let that happen, and the pain that leapt to his face settled the matter. I saw immediately that if I was manipulative I could leverage deep, deep guilt. There's never been any reason to talk of the matter since, and it's at least 10 years gone by.

We will be talking about the insanity of the Tulsa rally soon, though. We won't agree, but we'll both revel in our disagreement.