Summary: Sometimes, whether or not you score with a woman has as much or more to do with her than with you. Women go through cycles where they alternate between piles of casual sex and swearing off of casual sex to find a boyfriend. In her casual phase, you can be decent-looking with decent game and catch her on a horny night and you're in. In her boyfriend phase, her standards might be insanely high.
Women go through sex-relationship cycles. They have casual sex with a bunch of guys. Sometimes it’s just sex, sometimes they catch feelings and the guy doesn’t want a relationship. Eventually, they get sick of the assholes, the bars, dating apps, and decide they’re done with this and they only want serious relationships. So they go on dates for awhile while pretending they’re not casual sex girls. Eventually, they either don’t find anybody good after a few months of looking, or find somebody they like and things don’t work out, or get into a relationship for a few months after which it inevitably ends. At that point, they’re on the rebound and they go back to having lots of casual sex. They’re rebelling. They did what they were supposed to. They were good girls and tried to play by the rules and it didn’t work out and get them a great husband, so what’s the point. Might as well have some fun. So they go back to acting out sexually. And the cycle repeats.
In some ways, the manosphere gets women wrong, because the manosphere tries to apply the male way of thinking to women’s lives in an attempt to explain what women do and why. We come up with all of these biological drivers and incentive-based logical reasons why women do these silly things that seem to fit the situation and explain what we’re seeing, only to find that some theory we came up with is right maybe half the time, while we have to invent other theories for why the other half of the time things went differently.
We have a hard time admitting that sometimes, it’s not about us, how we look, our game, or anything we missed or did wrong. Sometimes, it’s about the woman and where she is in her sex-relationship cycle.
Here’s an example:
No woman alive has ever thought to herself: “This guy I’m sitting across from is pleasant enough, but he’s not that hot. I’m not that attracted to him. If he were hot, I’d have a casual hook-up with him. But he’s only average, so I’m going to insist on a relationship first. Because I totally want a relationship with a guy I’m only kinda attracted to. That way, I can spend most of the relationship making excuses to have barely any sex with him while I get some money and attention out of him, then dump him later for a hot guy I’m actually attracted to.”
That’s silly, but some guys actually think this is how women operate.
Women don’t want a relationship with a guy they wouldn’t also have casual sex with. If a woman turns a guy down for casual sex but is willing to pursue a relationship with him, the reason isn’t “he’s not hot enough for casual sex, only slightly attractive enough for a relationship”. A relationship with a guy she’s not attracted to is stupid. Having a boyfriend she doesn’t want to fuck and spending her days trying to avoid sex and milk money out of him isn’t fun for any woman. Only the small percentage of women who are actual gold diggers specifically seek that out.
If a woman wants a relationship with a guy but doesn’t want casual sex with that guy, this has more to do with where she is in the sex-relationship cycle than with how hot the guy is.
If you catch a woman who’s specifically looking for casual sex and specifically not looking for a relationship, you don’t have to be some kind of upper echelon alpha man who’s so hot, women will do anything for his dick. You just have to be decent-looking and have game.
In her casual phase, she’s sick of playing by the rules when she never gets what she wants anyway. So you don’t even have to be that hot. You can just be an average guy who meets her minimum appearance standard and knows game on a night when it’s been awhile and she’s horny, and you might get lucky. She’s rebelling against doing what she’s supposed to and is acting out sexually during those times.
If you catch a woman who’s specifically looking for a boyfriend and specifically trying to avoid casual sex, that’s when her standards go way up and you have to be an exceptional man for her to make an exception for you.
During her serious boyfriend phase, your odds of scoring go way down, because now she’s going to insist on a date instead of just drinks for 30 minutes with the understanding that you’re going back to your place to fuck if you hit if off. In that situation, you need to pull off three things to score: You need to be really cute, really fun with great game, and completely unsuitable for a relationship but without being an asshole full of deal-breakers. It’s a very tough balance to strike. She needs to be sitting next to you and needs to not feel emotionally attracted to you because you’re a little cocky and immature at a time when she’s looking for a boyfriend. But she needs to feel physically attracted to you and think you’re cute, fun, and like you as a person. At that point, her brain will flip a switch and she’ll think, “I know I’m looking for a boyfriend right now, but I’m already out with this guy and he’s fun, and while I don’t want to date him, it’s been two weeks since I had sex…what the heck let’s do it.”
Or you could just lie and pretend you’re interested in a relationship. That works, too.
Anyway, no woman wants a relationship with a guy who’s so unattractive that she would never, ever have considered him for casual sex. That’s stupid. If she wants a relationship but doesn’t want casual sex, it’s because she’s in her boyfriend phase and she either likes the guy enough emotionally to not want to risk outing herself as a slut by fucking him early or doesn’t like the guy enough to make an exception for him.
Here’s another example:
No woman alive has ever thought to herself: “This guy I’m sitting next to is so hot and so much fun and I really like him and I want to be his girlfriend. However, he keeps insisting that he only wants casual sex. While I’d like a relationship with him, I recognize that casual sex is all I can get, and it’s worth being just a casual partner to him just to be around a guy who’s so amazing, even though not being in a relationship with him hurts me emotionally.”
That’s silly, too. But some guys think this is how women operate.
In truth, really young women (typically age 19-21) will sometimes try to use sex to get a guy into a relationship at least once or twice. After that doesn’t work a couple of times, they wise up and stop trying that and just have casual sex for the sex. Once a woman is past that stage, women don’t have casual sex with guys they like emotionally. In fact, they specifically seek out men they don’t want a relationship with when they’re looking for casual partners.
Guys from Tinder or strangers in a bar that they don’t know much about and only make small talk with for an hour over drinks before fucking? Those guys are perfect because there’s no chance she’ll like them. She can have fun fucking them once, then never see them again. If she does see a guy a few times, hang out a little bit, and catch feelings, she’ll push for a relationship. After he says no, she usually stops fucking him (though she may come back and fuck him again later the next time she’s in the casual part of her cycle if he maintains his frame when she ends things). She knows that having sex with a guy she wants a relationship with is going to hurt her, not help her win him over. So she’ll end things with him if the push for a relationship doesn’t work. After this happens with a few guys, she’ll complain that all men are assholes and she’s sick of the casual game, then switch from her casual phase to her boyfriend phase, until the cycle repeats.
Sometimes, if a woman doesn’t end up in your bed two hours after meeting you, it’s okay. It’s not always you. Sometimes it’s her and her current place in the sex-relationship cycle. The best you can do for yourself is assume every woman is in her boyfriend phase. Keep yourself looking good and acting fun, and work on finding that balance of just enough cocky/immature game that women don’t want to date you seriously, but not so much that you’re driving women off.
Nicolas0631 7y ago
It also why game and the "it kind of happened" is so important. Most girls don't want to allow you to get sex with them so soon because they know it doesn't work for a relation. But in the moment they may do it anyway as they give up.
barserek 7y ago
I liked your post, it seems like a good explanation for"it's a numbers game". A lot of times whether a girl will have sex with you-or even like you- does not depend on you.
I agree that AWALT in certain aspects but asuming they are all the SAME in EVERY aspect is just ignoring human nature. One of the fundamentals of TRP is that women are very emotional, volatile beings. How can you expect them to react or act the same way every time like a logical puzzle?
Being alpha, rich, attractive, the best version of you, etc all count towards increasing your chances, but in the end, you can only maximize your possibilities, and after that it's pretty much up to other factors which you do not have control over. Maybe her dog died. Maybe the perfume you used reminded her of her ex. Maybe you said something and it sounds like her dad. Maybe she forgot to shave. Endless factors.
I've been exaclty the same, done exactly the same things, dressed exactly the same way, pull exactly the same game, with the same girl, and have completely two different outcomes.
That's why you try not to take rejection personally (still hard for some of us), and just keep on running the number game. Eventually you win.
We can apply logic and come up with all sort of theories and stuff, but in the end it's humans we are talking about, and we are not that rational and logical as a species -and specially women-. You can't expect to push a button and always get the same reaction, no matter how redpilled you are and how much you know about women. Even the guys who fuck a ton of girls know this and admit that they get rejected a shit ton of times.
escapethesolarsystem 7y ago
This is a really interesting gem - I think most women are actually wired to do this. In the traditional past, she'd end up pregnant and society would tell the guy to stay with her. It's a sensible strategy if a guy won't commit without it. However, in the deregulated sexual marketplace of today, even that's not enough to get a guy to stay with her, so after failing several times at this, she just degenerates into a run-of-the-mill slut. It goes to show how amoral western society is really what made the entire mess that exists in the west today.
Like the hypothetical individual in economics, women are "rational actors" in the sense that they always act in what they think is their own best interest. The problem is, all their biologically innate mate-finding strategies which have served them well in the past fail miserably in the modern "feminist" west. So they end up lost without a clue, and just end up bouncing around from one failed coping mechanism to the next, leaving a bunch of used up sluts in their 30's trying desperately to pin down males beta enough to marry them.
Andrew54321 7y ago
So logic driven manosphere theories are potentially bunk but your explanation is logic driven based around a woman’s potential intent?
C’mon. KISS.
She fucks the following:
Is attractive
celincelin 7y ago
Smoking some ass killing shit, mate.
swampbastard69 7y ago
I literally had this conversation in bed with a girl last night. She said...
"I never want to date super hot guys, thats only for hookups"
A big reason is they are scared of getting left by the super hot guy with lots of options and alpha widowed - they dont understand this term but most girls over 25 understand this concept.
It also doesnt mean they dont like having sex with the boyfriend, a girl can have great sex with a guy that isnt super hot, stop assigning our thinking (visual, physical) to a woman's, they DONT THINK LIKE US.
I was asking a former plate why she was attracted to a certain guy - just trying to learn (dont do this, its a bad habit)....she interrupted sternly "Why do you always ask me why we do what we do, we DONT KNOW WHY WE DO THINGS". lmao.
ArdAtak 7y ago
I have a few female friends and we're pretty open with each other about our lives, pains, and thoughts. This is pretty spot on. They DO go through these cycles.
MattyAnon Admin 7y ago
Err..... this is exactly how women operate, although I'm sure the thought processes are not conscious. The end result though is that the above scenario plays out over and over again through men and women's lives..... with most men failing to understand what's going on and most women lying about it.
Actually they would - it's been well researched that women prefer different men for casual sex (Chad) and relationships (someone a bit more beta, less threatening, with less options).
I know that women think EXACTLY like this because this is the sort of thing they will literally tell you if you're in this situation with them. They summarise with phrases like "I'll take you any way I can get you"... or as has been said before here: women would rather have part of a winner than all of a loser.
Women don't wise up.... they do the same pattern repeatedly until they hit around 30 and then try to pretend they're virgins.
Nicolas0631 7y ago
I think not interresting women do that. The equivalent of the BP woman. A quality women is still subject to AWALT and all but she has abundance, she know she can get any man and in these modern time she also independant financially and make as much as you do and as you are not some lose, that quite significant money.
She doesn't care of your money because she has a great income already. And she doesn't care that you can provide sex because she can have all the sex she want.
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CainPrice 7y ago
Women prefer "Chad" for casual sex not because Chad is hot enough while Beta Bob isn't hot at all, but because Chad is less suitable for a relationship. He's cocky and immature (or at least presents himself this way), but isn't so overboard with this behavior that he's driving her off with annoying deal-breakers. But he's also cute and fun.
Beta Bob (not who is beta, not omega. Beta Bob is not Incel Iggy) is still cute enough to be attractive. In some cases, maybe he's even almost as cute as Chad. But Bob is a suitable relationship prospect because he has a good job, his shit is together, he takes her to dinner instead of drinks, he pays for the date, and he's super-nice to her and acts all mature and patient and respectful without being cocky and escalating. If she'd been in her casual phase and Bob had acted like Chad acts, she'd probably have hooked up with Bob. Bob's not too ugly for sex, just too nice to be unsuitable for a relationship, and not hot and cocky enough to make an exception for casual when she's looking for a boyfriend. When she's in her boyfriend phrase, and Bob's acting like a boyfriend, casual sex is off the table.
MattyAnon Admin 7y ago
Disagree. Being unsuitable for a relationship is not why women choose "Chad" for a hookup. They choose him because he's attractive / masculine.
You're getting a lot of things backwards. Women tend to be disappointed when hookup-Chad doesn't commit. She wanted attractive, she got it, but then is disappointed that attractive doesn't commit.
Well no...... beta bob tends to be useful more than attractive, so he gets to stick around.... encouraged even by her flirting, but there's always sexual limits placed on him. "Later" and "soon" and "I'm not that kind of girl" and "not before we're exclusive".
When she wants a hookup she wants a guy who is masculine, physically attractive, fun, flirty, distant, non-needy, etc. and fucks him.
When she wants a boyfriend she selects for guys that fulfill her needs for support, commitment, etc. She compromises a little on attractiveness and focuses more on providership qualities.... BUT this is attractive in the same way and doesn't lead to as much sex and certainly not that hot monkey sex that men prefer.
CainPrice 7y ago
If a woman is in her casual-sex phase, then yes, Chad is hotter than Bob, she wants to fuck, and if both guys want to fuck her, she's going home with Chad.
But if Chad's busy and Bob (who is cute, not hideous like an incel - he's beta, not omega) happens to know game and acts like Chad acts, she'll go home with Bob.
In her casual sex phase, she's just looking to fuck, and even a slightly more average guy can score if he gets her at the right time.
In her boyfriend phase:
If "Chad" is both hot -and- a great relationship prospect, she's going to like him -and- want to date him. She's going to try to make Chad wait, and Chad's not going to wait because he can just go fuck someone else. But if Chad plays things right and isn't a great relationship prospect, but there she is already out with him on a date, and it's been two weeks since she's gotten laid, she'll make an exception and fuck Chad.
Meanwhile, Bob's kinda cute and also a great relationship prospect. She makes him wait, but Bob's used to waiting and is beta so he goes along with it.
odaklanan_insan 7y ago
You talk like you beleive women have frame or character. Just wanna remind you that they don't. Their mindset and emotions depends on the man that they're interracting with.
CainPrice 7y ago
Women are not computer programs that respond consistently if you provide the right input.
Where a woman is at in her mind is very much a factor in your success. In fact, a woman's personal circumstances can be even more important than anything about you. Even something as fundamental as your looks.
If you catch a woman in her casual phase, right after things didn't work out with a guy she liked and she's acting out sexually as a result, she'll fuck whoever just because she's bored. On a day like that, you can be an average-looking dude with game and take her home. If that exact same woman is in boyfriend mode and you do the exact same thing, she won't fuck you.
Hock3yGrump 7y ago
Yes, they are.
That is why you don't do the exact same thing. Dark Triad minds know this well and do not care about "phases" when wanting a certain outcome. The "phase" is simply a number in the algorithm, not an absolute.
If she is in true "boyfriend" mode she will be camouflaged. Titty shirts/dresses and heels become more conservative. She isn't going to the bar/clubs and so on. However, day game might see her and knows she may potentially fuck that day.
The only "phase" that heavily lowers potential is her menstrual cycle. Then again, this depends on the girl.
Nicolas0631 7y ago
Remember that even the most alpha pre-select the women that are responsive to them first and only after see they have near 100% success rate. It just mean they didn't fuck up, not that they were exceptional.
And that preselection quite change the game in the type of women they would get. Their experience even if it apply to thousand of woman is likely not representative.
The thing is most expert red pillers would never get to know and get into a relation with a woman that would not AWALT and be the perfect defintion of their idealized old BP dreams even if they made up of 99.9% of the population ! They would simply dismiss them as making them waiting too much for sex or outwardly not being not interrested at all because commited with another man.
I am not saying we get 99.9% of high quality women in this world or there NAWALT. Actually there AWALT but the likelyness of it to actually happen vary greatly in practice.
I think that quality women are as common as quality men: not that common at all. There only a few, maybe few percent.
But we shall remember that out there, most men just try to select the slutest/dumbest out there that would bang any man in sight they act like sluts/dumb people ! They generalize to think that they all like that and so that obviously Margaret Thatcher, Angela Merkel, the female surgeons, the female with Phd and alike are also with an IQ of 70 max, incapable to control themselve or to achieve anything in their life.
CainPrice 7y ago
I suppose it's more accurate to say that the humongous number of inputs that affect the output a woman gives you, and the infinite variations that are possible for each individual input and each combination of inputs makes solving women like an equation something that is completely beyond some dude that's hitting on her.
Over half of the factors in play aren't things you can control. Even if you're hot and you behave just right, something in her life might lead her to reject you that you had absolutely no control over. She could even be affected by completely random factors, like the specific amount of dopamine her body happens to drip into her blood at this particular minute when you're talking to her.
Best you can do is maximize your part of the equation and see what happens, and not beat yourself up too badly if it doesn't go your way half the time.
Hock3yGrump 7y ago
Totally agree.
I understand, but again this is about knowing your surrounding and understanding the 'odds' of why someone is where they are. A chick who's boyfriend just died is less likely to attend the random fuck bar while she is in mourning.
Sometimes your game might fail because she has to take a shit, I get that. However, her needing to shit is not a "sex phase". Situational awareness mixed with critical thinking is the reward of experience and wisdom.
The "boyfriend" thing is not correct, because no woman is ever fully "committed" to the man in the first place. A specific 'phase' would mean Hypergamy is false, Hypergamy is active 100% of the time. Do Not mistake a female being lazy, for loyalty.
Your point of view makes it sound like, no matter how much you practice, you will never be able to sink a 3-pointer or kick a field goal if the hoop or the posts are in a "specific mood".
Woujo Senior Endorsed 7y ago
Women bounce from man to man because they want a complex series of traits that rarely exist in one guy. On one hand, they want an "alpha" - a guy who is tall, good looking, exciting, and focused on his purposes. On the other hand, they also want a guy who will spend time with them, accept them into their life, and commit to them. It is rare for one guy to be all of these traits, which is why women spend a little time with both kinds of guys.
DancesWithPugs 7y ago
I went on a dinner date once that seemed to be going well in the conversation but there was a lack of chemistry. She straight up told me at the end she loved my confidence and might have been 'interested' but was at a low sex drive point in her monthly cycle. I don't think it was just a madeup excuse. Some women are consciously aware of their patterns.
celincelin 7y ago
In other words, not a date.
Yes, that was a made up excuse.
EpicMovie 7y ago
Evolutionary instincts were fine-tuned for women who had the drive to catch the best seeds from multiple alphas but then either convert one of the alphas to a beta or raise those kids with a stable beta provider, albeit as a new step-dad or a cuckold, and then maybe have one or two more offspring with the beta's inferior genes but ensured provision (even post-divorce with today's laws).
This plays out not only on the carousel/relationship cycle you've described, but even on the monthly menstrual cycle. When ovulating, she's super horny for a Chad, then post-ovulation (ideally post-insemination) her instincts are inclined to connect with a beta that she feels connection with and devotion from (and make him wait for sex so the alpha's sperm can take their time to fertilize).
Beta ape/caveman thinks kid is his (doesn't comprehend 9 months gestation), and then boom, a successful reproduction strategy for the female and for the benefit of mankind's gene pool. This cuckold may even be repeated multiple times, again for the betterment of mankind's genes if we're being objective. It's an instinct they are rarely able to control without intense societal, family, and religious pressure.
momomotorboat 7y ago
Women are weird creatures.
I literally had a woman get weirded out because I correctly guessed which airline she worked for. Australian girl in LA, thick ass accent. Said she was a flight attendant. So I asked, "Oh, Quantas?"
She stopped dead in her tracks and said, "Wait, how do you know that?" This is after she brought me a couple drinks and sat in my lap. Got her homegirl and walked right the fuck out of the bar.
awalt_cupcake 7y ago
I've had similar experiences. Being relatively young terper, I keep replaying the interactions in my head trying to understand what I could have done any different.
​
I'm thinking it's more like what you said: girls are just easily spooked sometimes. Getting laid really is getting lucky. You can be fit, good job, living life, run game, capture her desire, but then the wind blew the wrong way and she's not feeling it anymore and nopes out the door.
momomotorboat 7y ago
Wind blew the wrong way. That's a good way to put it.
I've come to find out I approached a girl after she found out she was being cheated on, had a crazy heavy period with endometriosis, just left a funeral, etc. I'd consider these a little more legitimate as to why I didn't have success upfront. But, for all the times I had a follow up chance, it helps to inform me of this:
The reason women reject you could be for any number of reasons, and it doesn't fucking matter. Go out and get rejected.
bcool87 7y ago
Sounds like she (stupidly) thought you knew a bit too much about the airline, and by extension maybe people who worked there (huge org but whatevs), and it snapped her out of a ONS fantasy with a random dude in a foreign country.
Soon_As_I_Nut 7y ago
Why do you think she did that
momomotorboat 7y ago
Your guess is as good as mine. All the reasons and excuses I've seen trigger women, this I just don't get surprised anymore.
Skrittext 7y ago
In the casual phase they always say a slight variation of the exact same line right before taking their panties off: “I don’t usually have sex the first night I meet someone”
CainPrice 7y ago
If you met her specifically for a hookup, that line goes away. In fact, she's more forward, flirty, slutty, and sexual with you than she'd normally be if she's in casual mode when she comes out to meet you.
It's when she's in boyfriend mode but making an exception for you because it's been two weeks since she hooked up when she says lines like that.
Nicolas0631 7y ago
Not only, slut are not well perceived, so many women need possible deniability.
Olram_Sacul 7y ago
nah, they can totally make a guy wait for sex for some weeks/dates while in the meantime are being pumped and dumped by other dudes
Nicolas0631 7y ago
That's consistent with OP theory. She want you and then make you wait. While getting the sex she want from other guys she don't care about. Or she is a gold digger looking for an orbiter.
I don't think OP theory cover all case of what could happen, but I do think it does cover a fare share of what some women do.
wildtimes3 7y ago
If a guy is waiting weeks, that’s on him, not her.
Project_Zero_Betas 7y ago
It's all about them timing the optimal moment for sex to induce further attention and validation to whichever guy. Some guys they feel they have to put out ASAP to secure future attention, while others they know they can make wait.
Olram_Sacul 7y ago
And sometimes they just wanna be fucked in the club's restrooms and don't wanna see that guy again
Project_Zero_Betas 7y ago
This probably happens a lot less than guys actually think. In that type of scenario, she's most likely hoping fucking him there will lead him to call her after the fact.
dukes1998 7y ago
Ding ding ding. This post is spot on. When I asked my girlfriend what she thinks about casual sex she always says how nice it is to not ever have to see them again and how she usually ghosts her ONS because she isn’t really into them at all. Girls will fuck guys for the validation, pleasure or just because it’s something to do.
yamseveryday 7y ago
You and your LTR talk about all the casual sex she’s had?
DntPnicIGotThis 7y ago
I do with mine and vise versa
ozyastro 7y ago
Call me a fag but i hate talking about my current gf's highschool bfs
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facestab 7y ago
This is beyond pointless because women always lie about sex.
xddm2653 7y ago
they omit certain details, and obscure numbers, but any good detective can read through her words and make conclusions.
dukes1998 7y ago
Not really but it’s come up since she has some ex slam pieces in her friend group
I’m not insecure about it because I know I fuck her better than anyone else which is the only reason i could see talking about past sex being a problem
[deleted] 7y ago
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TwentyEighteen 7y ago
You’re dating a roastie my friend
dukes1998 7y ago
I don’t know what that means because I’m not autistic
[deleted] 7y ago
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dukes1998 7y ago
Because you got to talk about sex to understand what one another want, and you’re gonna inevitably end up discussing past partners.
[deleted] 7y ago
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dukes1998 7y ago
I don’t have to know what it means to know it’s used by the mouth breathers on 4chan
Short-changedChad 7y ago
It is easier to fool a man than convince him that he’s been fooled.
Fulp_Piction 7y ago
It sounds like you're paying way too much attention to what a woman says instead of how she acts. There is a cycle, it last about a month - be an asshole for the first two weeks, be an asshole with some sugar on top for the second two.
Girls will rationalise their shitty decisions by 'swearing off' whatever it may be to make them feel better. She's off bad food until she sees another snickers, she's off shopping until she sees something she wants, she's off assholes etc. etc.
The fundamentals work more than
SeasonedRP 2 7y ago
This is spot on. I have had similar thoughts upon reading some questions and responses at ATRP, though I certainly didn't phrase them in an ordered, eloquent fashion like this post. Guys seem to think that if a woman isn't into them, there is a logical reason for it, and that reason nearly always is some other guy is better. Hence, they reason, they need to focus more on self-improvement and get better before trying to meet women. Wrong. She just may be at a different phase in the sex-relationship cycle, as you have explained here. Good post.
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Ronaldo-CR7- 7y ago
Holy shit this is what I needed
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iamRRading 7y ago
If she doesn't want to fuck me within the few hours, next. I'm not in for her game.
Spicychickenaholic 7y ago
Just no. No no no. Just because you're not willing to start a relationship with a girl who's had sex with you doesn't mean 80% of AFCs will. Sex absolutely is used by women across all age brackets to start a relationship.
Sex is a form of retention used in mate selection, she fucks Chad because she's evaluating whether he's a good mate, but Chad himself won't stay around without pussy, so she gives it to him so he stays around. This is the same mechanism that makes women lose attraction for a guy who doesn't ever sexualize things, he's signalling that he doesn't have other options and is willing to over commit without sex.
If I could pinpoint your misunderstanding it would be that you think that a women's emotional state or conscious rationalisations give her real sexual agency, they don't.
edit: a word
swampbastard69 7y ago
this is another thing men dont understand about women's brains. Often they use sex to try to get the guy to like them. A man could never conceptualize such a thing, often we want the opposite. Imagine going "if I fuck this girl she will then want a relationship with me :)"...this is why being aloof and not validating these bitches is so incredibly effective. This also exposes the false theory that women are "just as horny as men", yes women love sex but its not even close (men have 15x the test levels - the active sex hormone in both men and women) --many times they aren't even wanting to have sex they just use it as a manipulation tactic.
CainPrice 7y ago
Most AFCs will go on 3-6 dates and agree to be a girl's boyfriend before having sex. The first time they have sex will be after he commits.
A woman doesn't have to have casual pre-relationship sex with some desperate average guy to get a relationship.
When she's 19 and the hot guy on her college soccer team is being flirty and cocky and she's not quite sure where she stands but she thinks he might liker her, she'll have sex with him then get hurt when he doesn't want to date her.
When she's 27, she doesn't do that any more. She has casual sex with guys from Tinder and bars that she doesn't want to date, while making guys she wants to date wait. She knows that trying to use casual sex to push a valuable guy into a relationship won't work, and that sex isn't necessary to get a less valuable guy to commit because he'll agree to be exclusive after 3-6 dates before ever having sex.
Spicychickenaholic 7y ago
That is 100% false. Maybe you are like that but none of my (afc) friends do that, I dont do that.. The average blue pill dating scene is 2-3 dates, you fuck on the second or third and depending on how "compatible" you are, a relationship starts after.
You say that, but I don't know someone who would date a girl they couldn't sleep with... Once again, maybe you would, but the average guy would not (Chad would laugh)
In my experience girls hitting the wall with a high n count do both.
They'll date "high value" betas, while still fucking random Chad's.
Hock3yGrump 7y ago
The "average" guys orbit more than they know. You don't have to be hand and foot to be in orbit or behave like you are. You know, that smoking hot girl/woman/milf at XXX location that you treat differently than the rest of the girls? That is orbit behavior.
Spicychickenaholic 7y ago
I do agree that lots of men orbit, but orbiting isn't the same as dating. I've definitely seen guys orbit, but usually they're trying to get the girl into a "relationship" to then fuck her. But even so, the "relationship" isn't usually considered started until they fuck. Maybe it's just me, but I've never had a relationship start before we've had sex.
Nicolas0631 7y ago
We all know a coffee or any activity/hobby where you are just alone with the girl has potential for a date.
You don't actually necessarily say to the girl explicitely that this is a date and that you plan to fuck her and she doesn't say to you this is a date (or not) and you can hope or not to fuck her. And even in theses case, words are different than act. Many girls say no but will do if you play it correctly.
Many orbiters gone to dozen if not hundred potential dates with their girl and more often than they think, the girl was even thinking at the begining this was a date or even after would have accepted to have sex with the right game.
If you change your behavior, your potential partner change behavior too and the outcome change.
CainPrice 7y ago
I think we're both right, depending on which end of the "average" pool we're talking about.
Your top 20% amazing men have sex and relationships easily. Your bottom 20% hideous loser men are kissless virgins at age 27 and are beyond help. The middle 60% are "average" men, which is a big swath of men.
The upper 30% of those average guys are like you describe. They're not players who rock the casual sex scene, but they're good enough to get dates and girlfriends and women usually put out on the third date. This segment of men is the classic blue pill guy - he has an opportunity to date a girl every few months and he's had girlfriends most of his life, so he thinks The Red Pill is stupid because all he needs to do is be himself and be nice to women and every few months he has another opportunity. His women have all of the power in his relationships, but he doesn't mind until someone he really likes cheats on him.
The lower 30% of those average guys are like I describe. Dates and girlfriends are hard for these guys to come by. They're not sexless virgins, but a woman agreeing to date them is uncommon enough that they don't want to screw it up. They'll go on half a dozen dates and let the woman set the pace for sex, and when she asks about exclusivity, they immediately agree since they weren't dating anybody else anyway. This is your classic Red Pill guy. The day he finds TRP, it's like he's looking in a mirror when he reads what women are like and how things are for men. He thinks that the average man has zero casual sex and very few opportunities for dates or girlfriends and has spent his life at the mercy of women for whatever he gets, and is desperate to figure out how to make this better.
ZachMeadows 7y ago
Exactly, even the most BP AFCs in my acquaintances are not stupid to the point of being in a sexless relationship from the start.
However, the most majority of people hook up casually after a night of heavy drinking and then figure out if they want to be in a relationship. Which is not less miserable.
Also the older women are often times more transparent with their intentions. They know and tell right away if they want to commit or just hook up.
Nicolas0631 7y ago
It isn't like they would admit to doing it ! You try to explain us that orbiters do not exist in that world, that's hard to believe.
ZachMeadows 7y ago
Maybe I don't hang out with orbiters. But I don't see many people bragging about their future LTR/wife they're not fucking yet...
Nicolas0631 7y ago
That possible. We don't all experiment the same life, quite the opposite actually. Many of the things we take for granted and universal are only valid in a much narrower context than we think.