I feel like the no marital rape thing is less one sided against men and more of just being a decent person,,

It's all about risk vs reward. The reward of marriage has greatly diminished over the past 50 years. The risk has greatly increased. It should come as no surprise that most men are opting out.

I don’t want children. I can cook my own meals and have a maid to clean my house. I have a social life and many hobbies. There are no gaps in my life where a wife needs to fill. However, I respect relationships that are based on ambition and the desire to build something. If I can find a partner that will help achieve my goals, I can value that type of marriage.

let's just remind everyone that 70% of all divorces are initiated by the wife in a heterosexual relationship.

No. It's 100%. The other 30% are men like me that were pushed to the brink of having my career and life threatened, had no other options to file for divorce myself. It's honestly a pro move by the woman too, they don't have to pay as much lawyer fees.

Are millennial men killing marriage? Let's hope so.

<insert some guy coming on here and talking about why you should get married and how you can make it work if you are “alpha” or “redpilled” enough.>

In all seriously, I’m 27 years old and have absolutely no interest in getting married. It makes zero sense for men.

If you haven't read "The Misandry Bubble", read it, it is sidebar stuff.

But, muh white children!
Come on, go get married and take one for the team.
/s

The one point against this argument though would be if you want kids and you don't want them raised in a broken household. Marriage will tend to at least guarantee you a partner in raising them until they are off to college. But yeah, choose wisely if you're going down that road.

70% of all divorces are initiated by the woman but, of the remaining 30%, how many of those divorces initiated by men happened because the woman persuaded him to? If you were somehow able to account for this, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that women are responsible for something like 90% of divorces.

This is not a red pill, it's a black pill. It doesn't matter what the legal precedence is. If the laws are a problem in this area, you married wrong.

In a woman's frame, there is no such thing as stability. The state of society in America and the West (and whichever part of the world is rapidly catching up) is ample proof that stability, commitment, trust, sense, awareness, consistency, longevity, durability, strength and rock solidness are all masculine qualities (eastern cultures classified traits themselves into masculine, feminine and neutral, and I like the idea, because it distills the core principles from the vagaries and half baked developments of human beings) through and through.

Essentially we are in a civilization where the masculine dimension is being removed from relationships.

In essence this is uprooting the foundation of a building, the root of a plant. The rest is only a matter of time.

That is, if we let it slide. Which we probably will, cause right now a cure can only be administered by a massive conservative social overhaul.

My grandma has given me much sage wisdom over the years. I think the one that always stood out was her statement: "Never get married. It simply isn't worth it. Find someone you like, stay with them until you don't. If you want a child, find a girl you really like, agree to do it, and keep custody for yourself when you don't want them any more. But never get married."

I don't like this. We need a movement to change this, and put women back in a reasonable position, you know - below supremacy level would be a good start. Then we need to un-pussify our men, re-pussify our women, set the legislative thinking straight in western society, and the only way to do this is over a long period of time of consistent support. We operate so covertly in the manosphere. It's fine. We'll grow to a critical mass. And then it takes a fuse to light, and then we all start speaking up, and then we all start demanding change, we all get into positions of power, we do what the feminists have done, and then we balance it out. There will be change, or western society is going to end up in a bad place.

I think it also lost its value for women, social media gave them hundreds/thousands/millions of orbiters who will drool at them and inflate their egos, so they will think they always have a backup which they kinda do, so it will be a perpetual "looking for the next best guy" cycle.

I'm in Canada, but the 70% stat you gave is much higher here. I thought it was 85-90.

I came to the same conclusion the hard way. I wish someone explained this to me when I was younger.

As a divorced man giving the 35% of my income to her (by law cuz we have 2 kids) wish I didn't did that...

I get what you're saying, but there's no reason to go into this much detail about the past.

Being FORCED to sex by your once-handsome-husband who is now a nasty FAT SLOB is no joke (or worse: he's now a violent nasty slob). It's disgusting. Imagine if your beautiful wife became a morbidly obese pig, but then still forced you into sex and was strong enough to bruise you and pin you down too.

So anyway..... The point is MARRIAGE is now UNFAIR TO MEN. And now we must work actively, with precision, to change these laws. Convince every lawyer, legal scholar you can to make divorce laws more fair to men.

If women do not have access to 50% of resources within and after the marriage, and they can leave the marriage, like as if they simply left a boyfriend, then that's how it should be. You get into a marriage with what you bring in, get out with what you leave out. And no more joint account bullshit.

No more, bottom-feeder divorce lawyers SEEKING OUT funds of the other party in order to make more claims. This is a distortion of the legal system for profit by big firms.

Constant divorces by those who have no interest to work on their marriage, then must suffer some sort of court consequences if it is proven they are cheating or being immoral. If the concept of marriage exists, some form of legal enforcement of moral behavior is then allowed philosophically.

Don't forget that not only could you expect her to remain fidelitous during marriage, you could expect her to be a virgin before marriage. This is important because it means you wouldn't be marrying some alpha widow who only wants you for resources.

If you need a contract for it, then maybe your relationship was shit to begin with.

Pussy is not worth the resources it costs anyway

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Yes, and this all by design. Society will not last without it.

More generally, Men are the gatekeepers of provision (attention/validation/resources/commitment)

For men, you were guaranteed access to monogamous sex

Except not really. Until the 1990's women pretended not to have orgasms, not to like sex, and saw it as a perpetual chore. Most of you don't remember the culture at the time, but it was universally one of "women don't really enjoy sex, at most they enjoy the closeness, they mostly suffer through it, don't be surprised if you only get some once a month when you're married".

Women perpetuated this state of affairs and men sighed and begrudgingly accepted it.

A sexual utopia where a man have constant access to his wife's sexuality it most certainly was not.

At best the marriage deal was "give up all your resources, hope to get occasional to which you are not entitled". But her entitlement to your resources has always been legally mandated.

From my reading, non-consensual sex was only considered rape if it was performed towards a woman who was not your wife. This changed and by 1993 non-consensual sex with your wife was considered rape in all 50 states.

Similar across the West, I remember when this changed. Most men were not raping their wives, but it did guarantee immunity from rape accusations.

"Right to legally rape your wife" isn't much of a privilege.

And while we're at it, let's just remind everyone that 70% of all divorces are initiated by the wife in a heterosexual relationship

And 100% of divorces in a lesbian marriage ;)

Marriage has lost its value for men

All value of marriage has been lost, simultaneously with the risks and costs increasing every year. Women get more, men get less, every year.

The best.... the BEST you can hope for is monogamy. Whether "successful" or not you'll end up buying a house and car for her and paying alimony to her. Maybe you'll stay together. Maybe not. Either way you'll be paying big, and the very best you can win is monogamy. Urgh.

It's a shit gamble, I'm stunned any man still does it.

If you want kids: DO NOT PAY THE MOTHER TO LEAVE HER CHILDREN, because that's all marriage is. A contract that PAYS HER TO LEAVE. Have kids by all means, but don't enter into a contract that gives her money, housing, transport and resources in exchange for destroying your family.

Do Not Marry

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The transition from what used to be called a spouse's "marital duty" (sex) to opening up the possibility for "marital rape" has also had an additional consequence for men, which is that your wife can, at any time, have consensual sex with you, then change her mind about whether it was consensual, and have you locked up for "marital rape". There is nothing you can do, it is entirely her word against yours, her recollection of her consent in the moment as she decides to have you arrested and locked up. Was it actually consensual? Too bad. She changed her mind about that, now you're fucked. This is now the nuclear option for any woman who wants a slam dunk divorce with her husband, getting any and everything she wants from him, while ensuring he is not just powerless, but ruined forever. The invention of "marital rape" now allows women to even more easily destroy a man and take everything he has. Marriage used to be a safe place for men, protecting them from the dangers (rape accusations) of sex outside of marriage. This too has been taken away from me. There is NO REASON FOR MEN TO MARRY.

Blue pill relationship and marriage cost me my 20s. An entire decade and almost 5 years of no sex. Every day I'm so thankful I didn't have kids and got a divorce. I'm 35 and finally enjoying life. Lessons learned.

I think when it comes to marriage in this day and age, its in a womens interest for a man to commit earlier, but in a mans interest to settle down later in life. For those young men in this subreddit wanting a family and kids, i think the "Vincent Cassel path" is the best one. And im not talking about his first marrige but the second.

So basically just focus on yourself, goals and ambition, and around your 50s settle down with a 20something.

Thats my take on mariage in this day and age if one have to do whats in their biological interest.

I'd love to see a double blind poll worded unbiased and without leading priming questions to see what percentage of men think marriage adds value.

Marriage is archaic and obsolete, men feel compelled to do it because of tradition. You can go through the ceremony, have the party and declare yourself monogamous with a woman, but signing that legal contract really does not benefit you.

Question:

1. What if a man has a woman who makes 5x as much as him.

2. She was a virgin until they met.

3. Wants to quit her career to raise kids within 5 years?

4. She’s 11 years younger than the man.

What are the negatives to marriage in that situation?

Pick her brain, because every single women have a vagina.

Not her credentials.

Not her smart ass shit talk.

Not her fucking attitude.

A solid, calm, chill, reasonable brain. A little bit crazy yes, but you need to see how fast she let it go. Etc.

A smart women knows what she want and how her love will effect a man. That women will still by your side no matter what you have or don’t have. You are what she need, after all.

A dumb women with hot body just a rusting ship waiting to get hit by the wall and sunk like titanic.

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What is this chit? Jesus christ trp has fallen.

This is very Kosher, very cool

Marriage never had any value for self sufficient men to begin with