I work at Hanesbrands which is a fortune 500 company and I believe its a 2 way street. I see so many beta guys walking around who are treated as equals by the women. Then there are a few Alpha males that work in my department, they get visible respect from the women (and men). One is a young black guy and the other is an older white guy. As cliche as it sounds, its all about how you carry yourself. Most of the men are dashing around everywhere making it look like they aren't in control. But the visible Alphas walk slowly and their posture is upright.

throwaway1809123 7y ago

It has nothing to do with being beta or alpha. It has to do with your personality, being focused and driven that makes you successful. This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. Maybe men like you can't handle the corporate world because you lack the brain power and don't know how to communicate with women or men. You're best attributes are probably doing monotonous jobs that require little thought and ambition.

TRP_Introspection 7y ago

Yes it has to do with personality, drive and focus also which is why i'm successful. Your obviously speaking for yourself with this attack. My point is that even in the workplace, the Alpha male will most often be in the position of power vs. the Beta male.

[deleted]

Granite_Pill 7y ago

I'm a contractor so I get to visit all these different companies. Some observations:

Women almost always outnumber the men 5 to 1.

To expand on this: one client whose products many of you use and whose decals many of you have put on your trucks, must've had an HR policy of only hiring hot women because their HQ was like 85% hot women.

I personally don't encounter very many white at these companies. 90% of the men I see out in the offices are H1B's from India, China, Korea, or other places.

Dash_of_islam 7y ago

Indian women... Hot? I haven't seen many hot Indian women and I've been to India and also worked at major international research institute

Granite_Pill 7y ago

No, the hot women are mostly white, Asian, and latina. Either companies will be full of H1B's or a 5+ to 1 ratio of hot chicks to men.

Dash_of_islam 7y ago

All the Indians I know are either major Mamma's boys or douchebag losers fronting as if they are tough but always pussy out

kekecarotcake 7y ago

tl;dr: discrimination of white people asians and men is increasing and they are beeing force fed diversity propaganda and how masculinity is toxic and women canot lie

throwaway1809123 7y ago

I think they're leaving because millenials are lazy and entitled. They also want more work/life balance too and in some areas of business the expectation is that you work 50 hours a week if you're looking to get promoted. My husband makes $200,000/year with a typical bonus of $35,000, but he works from 8 am to 7-8 pm everyday. On vacation he's answering emails and phone calls, so it's not like he's sitting back collecting a fat check for a 40 hour work week. Most of the younger ones he hires in can't deal with all the work and they value work/life balance even more than things like 401K matching, etc. I honestly don't believe discrimination is the issue here. My husband works for a very big accounting firm and they struggle to find minority employees. There just aren't very many people of color who choose to go into that area of business.

-1

Dash_of_islam 7y ago

Why would anyone in their right mind want to waste their lives in a corporate office as a workaholic?

It's not laziness to expect a reasonable life work balance. Of course don't expect top dollar, but still you sound like a slave owner whose upset the workers don't want to be corporate work donkeys whose only purpose in life is to work for the corporate machine

Sounds like workaholics need hobbies or good friends to want to hang with

herpaderpadont 7y ago

They had some bullshit corporate email interviewing one of our VPs. His answer to one of the topics was "I like getting people into leadership positions, especially women and minorities." or something to that note.

Why the fuck is that okay?

What if I were to say "I like promoting people into leadership positions, especially white males." People would lose their fucking mind.

According to the sexual mandatory sexual harassment training, you would think the men around the office were all walking around with hard-ons all day.
I wouldn't touch most of the women in the office with your dick.

throwaway1809123 7y ago

You do realize that they are required by the state to give you the sexual harrassment training, right?

RedPill115 7y ago

They had some bullshit corporate email interviewing one of our VPs. His answer to one of the topics was "I like getting people into leadership positions, especially women and minorities." or something to that note.

When predators become adults they stop liking other predators like themselves, but often leave other non-competing animals alone. Tigers will try to kill other tigers that try to pass through their territory. Lions will hunt down smaller predators that live in thrir territory and kill them in the night.

People at the top will try to put in people below them who are non-threatening to them in a similar way, while trying to eliminate people who might compete with them.

The problem with doing this based on race is that other races are pnly less competitive because they don't make up the majority. As a white guy go work for an indian consulting firm and you'll see the weird shift that happens when the majority of people are both a different race and culture. Suddenly some of the things that feminist copied before making it insane will make sense - you can't rven nrgotiate the informal dominance hierarchy because you don't know what it is. On the other hand, the whole "foreigners will save us" becomes entirely laughable as you'll see them being even bigger dicks than white people when they have a chance. They're pursuing their own self-interests just like we do, but they're no nicer about it.

BaLahKie 7y ago

I see no shortage of male applicants applying to the financial industry

throwaway1809123 7y ago

EXACTLY! That is still a field that is largely dominated by white men and it's mostly because they struggle to find minority applicants! I think racism is actually a bigger issue between mid-level or under educated workers than it is between top-level executives. When you get to that point you've either made your way and earned it and if you got their by mistake you don't stay there very long.

womans_algorithm 7y ago

Incoming "you men are just pussies for quitting".

Vouch33r 7y ago

You men are just pussies for quitting!

[deleted]

tikitheman 7y ago

More money less bullshit in trades and entrepreneurship.

halfback910 7y ago

Everyone on reddit loves to bring up trades.

They get paid a lot because the work is fucking hard! A lot of it is outside, uncomfortable, physically demanding, and damaging for your body.

Have you ever talked to a welder? It is fucking miserable work. I've met dozens of welders. All of them have gotten molten sodder on them at least once (often it flies into their boot because the ppe supposed to protect their shoes can come undone without them noticing). It hurts like a motherfucker.

Yes, trades make good money. Not because of the shame of working with your hands (which is obviously bs) but because they're fucking hard.

throwaway1809123 7y ago

You are right!

People who want to make money are people who are willing to work for it. My husband doesn't have a job in the trades... he's a consultant at a popular accounting firm. He makes $200,000/year with a typical bonus of $35,000, but he works for it. The expectation is that he works 50 hours a week and most of those need to be billable hours, so he's working hard. He has to not only sale to clients, but service the clients too. Even on vacation he's answering phone calls.

If you want to make a lot of money you're going to have to put in the work. No one is going to hand you a fat paycheck for putting in the minimal amount of effort whether that means you're working in the trades or in the corporate work place.

-1

Granite_Pill 7y ago

Trades don't make that much money anymore. It's kind of a myth. I guess they had a trade labor shortage awhile back, but they've fixed it. Most trades are broken down into components. Instead of skilled craftsman doing a complex set of work, they hire "helpers" to do individual components of the overall job. So you don't really need to know how to do anything, just one part. You don't even need to speak English or be in the country legally. Most of these helpers are paid anywhere from $8-$20/hr based on experience and legal status. Most of these helpers are hired through a temp agency as well. So there is no stable work and no benefits. When the project is over, everyone is laid off or reassigned, and there can be a downtime between jobs. If you manage to break into a trade and get passed that step, then you will wallow for 2-10 years in an apprenticeship/training/experience building phase not making much money until you rank up or whatever.

Many jobs require somebody with a certain level of certifications or licenses be on site. They really only need one guy like that on site, not everybody. So sure, they will have the "skilled tradesman" on site as a supervisor or manager or whatever, but everyone else there is a helper, apprentice, or day laborer barely scratching by. It takes years to get up to that level.

IF you get into the trades young right after high school, then you will fly by that miserable period when your cost of living is still low and by the time you're 25-30 you'll be doing just fine. But if you're 25-30+ years old and wanting to make a career shift into the trades, you're in for a rude awakening. Not to discourage anyone from doing that, but know what you're getting into.

The only place I didn't see this apply is in the oil and gas industry. In the oil industry, if you manage to get your foot in the door with no experience, they will train you up and promote you from within and pay you nicely along the way. Or you'll go off and work for other companies. At least that's how it used to be. All the oil companies are getting cucked now. A lot of shit is getting outsourced and H1B'ed. And there are huge boom-bust cycles. You'll spend a few years netting 6 figures and then your company will go belly up in the next bust overnight. You and millions of other men will suddenly be out of work and looking for a job at the same time. If you live in a petro-dominant economy, you're screwed. With so many men looking for work at the same time, you'll be lucky to find a job stocking shelves at the grocery store.

All the trades are different. They have different skill requirements and structures. This is just my observation. I know welders making $35,000 in construction. I know some violent ex-con welders making $75,000+ welding skyscrapers. And of course oil guys making $100,000+ in oil & gas, marine, military contractors.

Bridgeboy777 7y ago

It's almost like labor is also a commodity that functions through supply and demand mechanisms. Imagine that.

GodOfDinosaurs 7y ago

From Marx's Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts:

Should supply greatly exceed demand, a section of the workers sinks into beggary or starvation. The worker’s existence is thus brought under the same condition as the existence of every other commodity. The worker has become a commodity, and it is a bit of luck for him if he can find a buyer.

Gaboyski_ 7y ago

Well the difference is that men who hit rock bottom just take it up in the ass while women in the same situation are guarranteed a sympathy card.

throwaway1809123 7y ago

That's not true. You may think women have it better than you, but it is simply not true.

[deleted]

throwlaca 7y ago

All of them have gotten molten sodder on them at least once

I got it many times. On my feet. Hands and some motherfucker threw some in my back as a joke. When I was 17, on a technical highschool.

Stop being a pussy.

-5

halfback910 7y ago

I'm not saying they're pussies. I'm saying it's something people in the job have to be paid to put up with.

E_Anonymous 7y ago

Unless my kids are really smart I’ll probably push them towards a trade. My friend is an electrician my age pulling 100k at 30. It’s a great career.

ZerglingKingPrime 7y ago

Is 100k supposed to be impressive as a 30 year old? I know 20 year old welders in Calgary making 90k+. If you're 30 in any corporate job and have an undergrad that's 8 years of experience. I sure hope you are making 100k if you didn't study lesbian dance theory.

halfback910 7y ago

https://smartasset.com/retirement/the-average-salary-by-age

For Americans age 25-34, the mean salary is $806.75 per week, or $41,951 per year.

It is substantially above the median. I sometimes get sample blindness just like you did because I run in circles with people who... went to private high schools, went to college, come from good families, are pretty smart, etc. etc.

ZerglingKingPrime 7y ago

We're talking about the Bay area I though. I think a lot of guys here covered the fact that what I said wouldn't apply outside of such a high cost of living area, not did I claim such.

Edit: according to your source, it says 40k avg for that age bracket. Although i think there's a big difference between 25 and 30, 40k is a lot lower than I expected.

E_Anonymous 7y ago

I’ll address this one since I’ve gotten multiple related comments from super alpha bros and I let them slide but now I’m a little irritated.

You got any tips for making 100k from personal experience? Or you just like to chat shit on the internet like a little fuckboy? I know many on here do. I also know you for sure fuckin aren’t one of them.

I like my job because it’s easy and I pay the bills while working on my personal mission of financial independence. You wanna make 200k and work for someone else? All the power to you. I’ve got my plans set.

If you have a problem with any of that get fucked. Fucking zergling prime and Asian dragon? This is what we went for? For sucks sake.

ZerglingKingPrime 7y ago

I make close to 100k as an 21 yr old intern. I'm in the Bay area as well. Here that's literally nothing especially if you work in tech. Even outside of SF, anyone working in corporate America for 8 years and not making over 100k is not a human being. I'm not sure what tips you're looking for, but 100k at 30 is pretty sad, and if you're saying it as if it is impressive than I don't even want to know what your situation is like... Like I said I know 20 year old welders in my home city making $90k+.

What's this about financial independence? You know who you work for doesn't affect your financial independence right? And making shitty money won't get you there.

-5

[deleted]

E_Anonymous 7y ago

Creating my own income and business is my dream and mission. I appreciate the concern, or really how cool it is that I’m not a human being because you know anyone under 100k is trash. You do you man. You are doing great.

Still think trades are a good idea for many.

Oh and I bet I still fuck more Asian girls than you. They love those white boys.

ZerglingKingPrime 7y ago

Not sure how you know I'm not white or how/if you know I'm into Asian girls, but if you fuck a ton of them then that's awesome and I envy that. Any tips? I'm honestly not even sure where they go out. I might try Berkeley this weekend.

Btw, see my comment replying to the other dudes in this chain. I have absolutely nothing against trades.

red_matrix 7y ago

u/ZerglingKingPrime You’re in one of the worst cities in the country for single men. All the guys I know in finance can’t wait to leave and get back to NYC, they describe their time in SF as a “tour of duty”, a sacrifice that must be made for a better future. They are just focusing on career, gym and saving money during their 2-3 year tour/prison sentence. At least the weather is good.

Plan your exit of Bay Area wisely.

E_Anonymous 7y ago

Your name is zergling king prime and your an intern at a tech company in the bay making 100k. I took an obvious guess.

If you want there’s some Asian heavy bars outer sunset and Richmond.

Cheeseking11 7y ago

He's an idiot who doesn't understand economic relativity. $100K is not much in San Francisco because of the ridiculous cost of living meaning the money does not go far. $100K salary in India and you can live like a king.

Trades are a fine career path.

DigitalDragonSlayer 7y ago

I second this comment...u/ZerglingKingPrime is an unhelpful autistic fuck who added nothing of value to this thread.

Trades are a noble and well paying profession and anyone who looks at he labor data can see the earnings are increases across most, if not all trades.

alittletoosmooth 7y ago

Playing devil's advocate here. How were people in the trades doing in 2009/2010 during the great recession? Trades are doing well right now because the economy is doing fantastic. I know plumbers and electricians who are so busy they have to turn down work. It's definitely a good career but if you wanted to work in the field the better bet is as an engineer or something. Trades ppl are a dime a dozen. Of course there are those few who are worth their weight in gold, but I feel like most of those ppl would have been successful no matter what they did because of their mindset (I.e - "do a great fucking job").

ZerglingKingPrime 7y ago

I'm not sure how economic relativity is relevant here, we're both in SF so we share the same frame of reference. Please elaborate on how your claim makes any sense.

I never said anything against trades at all did I? I agree that trades are a very noble profession and all my friends who went into trades make more money than I do. One of my past jobs was billing labor for oil and gas projects in Alberta, so without the abundance of tradesmen there I wouldn't have any good job experience. College is not for everyone and skilled trades are always needed. One of my friends works deep sea drilling for Saudi aramco and makes $400k clean USD. He's 24. Mind you the job is dangerous as fuck. Nowhere did I say anything against trades, all I said was working in a trade and making 100k at 30 years old, or doing anything in SF at 30 @ 100k is not significant. Stats will speak for that

red_matrix 7y ago

Dude - you’re describing trades in the oil and gas industry which pays WAY more than any other industry. An electrician working for Aramco will make 3X (tax free due to expat status) more than Joe Blow working for the city.

halfback910 7y ago

I have a lot of respect for electricians (I tried to be one and failed), but just to be clear your friend is giving you massive survivorship bias. The median pay for an electrician is about 51k. Still very solid, obviously.

E_Anonymous 7y ago

It’s sf Bay Area so the pay is going to have to be relative but he makes more than my tech industry self.

KobayashiDragonSlave 7y ago

At 30 if you aren't making 100k as SDE in Bay Area, you are doing something wrong

red_matrix 7y ago

There’s a lot of startups in the Bay Area chasing dreams that pay nothing but shares. Not everyone works for Google and Oracle.

Irtotallynotrobot 7y ago

We're not leaving, we're being pushed out.

Theorymeltfool1 7y ago

I work from home at a Fortune 100 company, can literally never be accused of sexual harassment, and also run my own business. This is the best time to be in “corporate America” if you’re smart enough to navigate it the right way.

Happyanduknowitclap 7y ago

Thank the gods for working from home. Easiest money I make

throwlaca 7y ago

I work from home at a Fortune 100 company, can literally never be accused of sexual harassment

Lol. Send the wrong email or post the wrong joke and you are getting fired my friend. Ask that guy from google. Feminism is like a religion. Even if you don't post anything, they will know that you do not belong to them, because you are not constantly virtue-signalling like you are supposed to do. So they will push you out even if you never say anything to a women. You are required to pedestalize them.

throwaway1809123 7y ago

If you act appropriately and professionally you won't find yourself in those situations. If you've ever taken a business law class you'd know that sexually harassment under the law is very well-defined. Companies have their own sexual harassment policies and most of them are not difficult to follow.

largepaycheckaddict 7y ago

Corporate America is for cucks. Learn your industry and work for yourself or you’re forced to play by someone else’s rules and make them money.

TyroneTheDriver 7y ago

Have you started your own business?

largepaycheckaddict 7y ago

Not yet, but working on it. I’m a tattooer and there’s a lot of freedom to just get up and leave and go somewhere else to work if you feel like it-since you’re the one bringing business to the shop.

halfback910 7y ago

It's just a risk analysis. People who take more risk get to make more money if it pans out.

I'm risk averse. I'm totally fine with someone else taking the big risk. If my company goes under they're ruined and I dust myself off and find another job.

To be fair, I'm also totally fine with them making more if the risk pans out. That's how capitalism works.

Maybe one day when I have a bunch of cash and a bigger passive income to fall back on my risk analysis will change.

RedKingRising 7y ago

As a minority man in the south I could say all of this. There is no path forward when unqualified idiot white men and emotional women keep getting promoted when I'm better than them on paper and with clients. I wish my company valued actual metrics over race.

throwaway1809123 7y ago

Then you need to find a new company to work for where the culture is different. No one is forcing you to work there, so you only have yourself to blame.

MattyAnon Admin 7y ago

I wish my company valued actual metrics over race

Quit blaming the world for your problems.

You need to learn to stop whining and blaming others for your lack of performance.
If you will stay while getting underpaid you are NOT underpaid: you are paid what they have to pay you. Everyone works like this, accept it and don't resent it.
You need to learn to stop whining and blaming others for your lack of performance.
Don't like it? Find a better position or a better company.
You need to learn to stop whining and blaming others for your lack of performance.
There's a tiny chance your company is racist. Most likely you present yourself badly, you certainly have in this post.

Don't kneejerk react to this, I am actually trying to help you.

beginner_ 7y ago

Metrics don't matter. Being good at corporate politics matters.

Irtotallynotrobot 7y ago

Get your black belt in administrative violence, whup some ass

halfback910 7y ago

They both matter. If you are in a metrics based role you can't talk your way around bad numbers. I've seen people try.

10211799107 7y ago

You need to study human psychology and how to play work politics. Promotions aren't given to the best engineer, it's given to the guy who can play the game. Stop sing your race as an escuse. I have friends of black Asian and Spanish cultures who are killing it.

sienok 7y ago

Do you have any resources on that topic? I would definitely be interested in doing a bit of research. (psychology and politics)

yungassed 7y ago

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/the-gervais-principle/

this is probably the best resource of office politics out there

10211799107 7y ago

What applies in Corp world applies with regular social dynamics. Know your audience, know how to socialize and make them feel good, make the boss look good etc. 48 Laws of Power, powermoves has a great article on corporate lies, Win Friends and Influence People book etc. Corporate is a political environment. A game. You just have to learn the rules.

ROTHSCHILD_GOON_1913 7y ago

nobody actually wants to do this, though. the kind of bugman dweeb who actually wants to work in this environment for 50 hours a week is the antithesis of a real man

the corporate world is a dead-end for any self-respecting man. you make more money working for yourself anyway, it's just more work

10211799107 7y ago

TRP is a toolbox. If Corp land is not for you then so be it but you can't say dumb shit like "self respecting man" etc. If you like manipulating people(translates into the real world coz girls manipulate you), then it's easy to make it. I would rather work my hours and have my check/benefits and free time to do cool shit than spen every weekend and every hour worrying about my business and taxes/payroll and all that shit.

There's no right or wrong, use the tools to your advantage and disregard the rest. Spend less than you earn and save for an early retirement. Easy.

RedKingRising 7y ago

The same applies to these white men whining about women and minorities. That's really my whole point. They are mad because it's competition, and blaming it on women and minorities. LOL.

Shouldnthavecomehere 7y ago

A merit based system does not exist. You can stack the deck in your favor, but there’s always the chance you will lose out based on affirmative action and “diversity.”

The “competition” if we can call it that is the one that’s mad. If they didn’t bend the rules in their favor, most of them wouldn’t be competing at all.