Don't get me wrong, lifting is the #1 thing you should regularly be doing to not only boost SMV but your long term prospects on life. But you know what else is important to do regularly? Worthwhile (key word there) reading. Just like with lifting it will help you tremendously when interacting with people, build your worth professionally, and strengthen your cognitive abilities. However, reading is also a hobby done in isolation (no immediate social benefits) and while sedentary (no immediate physical benefits) so it is crucial to make sure you are making the most out of the time put into it. I put worthwhile reading into 3 key categories - reading to learn about the world, reading to specialize, reading to learn a skill.
Before we get to that lets start with reading that ISNT worthwhile.
Time wasters
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Works of fiction - Don't get me wrong, some of the most popular works of all time are fictional works. Just look at the cultural influence pieces like Lord of the Rings and A Song of Fire and Ice have had. But it wont provide any real benefit to you. This isn't to say DON'T read works of fiction. They can be enjoyable and are certainly better than many other activities. But they should be placed in the same category as watching Netflix, browsing Reddit, etc. as activities you realize you don't gain from much, but use to unwind.
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Biased low grade journalism - This includes most of what the average joe out there reads and follows. It's what is on the front page of Yahoo! or Buzzfeed, it is what is talked about on CNN, MSNBC, or Fox News every night. Definitely includes Breitbart, Huffington, Post, etc. It is the first layer of 'news' people follow that most of the time doesn't really matter and is more often than not used to illicit an emotional response from you to keep you tuned in. No, what the President tweeted, what an athlete said about the national anthem, or what won best Super Bowl ad doesn't matter. This will leave you no better educated than the single mother on facebook spouting off political nonsense.
- Sports, Reddit, and Manosphere sites - Again this falls under the category of 'stuff you CAN read, but wont benefit from'. When I was younger I used to love reading ESPN articles or Sports Illustrated. But it is mostly aimed to the masses and you gain zero from it. Reddit is a time suck (that I even struggle with, but have improved tremendously), that's well known. What about The Manosphere? Might take flack for this but my sincere belief is that once you internalize the red pill then you are wasting your time re-reading the same theories, views on some feminist fueled event, etc. Come here or other manosphere sites occasionally to teach others or stay fresh, but the educational gains you get from it - while very worthwhile - depreciate quickly as you come to learn more and can often turn into a circle jerk.
Now onto what you SHOULD start reading today.
Reading to learn about the world Good sources of information - The Wall Street Journal, Reuters, The Economist, Bloomberg, Business Insider (sometimes), CNBC, The New York Times (stay away from opinion stuff)
The benefits of this are greater awareness of what is going on in the world around you, the ability to develop yourself into a well rounded person who can talk with various groups of peers, and eventually understand areas in the world in which there is both opportunity and unnecessary risk. Yes, the above publications have their own unique biases that I often disagree with. NYT has a liberal slant, The Economist is very globalist, WSJ is fiscally conservative, etc. But they are still some of the best sources of knowledge out there that cover events both domestically and across the globe, while also hitting on business issues at home. In fact the above rotation includes the most frequent sources of reading for many of the richest in the world (Gates, Bezos, Buffet) - if it works for them it works for you. Read as much WSJ/Bloomberg/CNBC as possible for business news and Economist/New York Times for political/current events and you will start to see benefits. I am sure there are a few others I am missing here but feel free to comment if you have any (intentionally left out The Washington Post as I believe it has entered liberal rag status, which the New York Times flirts with)
Reading to learn a skill Good sources: Really any book mentioned here. How To Win Friends and Influence People, The Four Hour Workweek, The Millionaire Next Door, self help books of any kind, business books of any kind, guides that serve to help learn new hobbies, etc.
A huge swath of material goes here, and of the 3 categories this is the easiest one since YOU GET TO CHOOSE what you are interested in. There are plenty of books on how to start a business, or startup guides for when you've already launched. There are worthwhile books on investing. Want to learn a new diet? Articles online for that. New workout technique? Same. Interested in becoming a surfer/rock climber/wielder/etc. Then all of this is starting ground for you. While there are certain hobbies and activities that are more accepted here than others, someone that is truly worldly can hold a basic conversation with anyone whether it be about music, board games, or a martial art. The more stuff you learn about - even if you don't master - the better off you will be.
Reading to specialize Good sources of information: Industry specific newsletters, websites, research, companies financial statements, investor reports, industry magazines.
This is possibly my favorite since it is done by the least amount of people and a good way to make yourself very valuable to your employer (or to yourself if you wish to start a business some day). It is commonly known that while being generally good at multiple things certainly isn't bad, the quickest way to make yourself indispensable is to become an expert in one area and that is where the big money can start coming in. Whether you realize it or not you work in a larger industry and while it may seem like you cant influence it, the more knowledge you have the better you will be served in the long run. Example: You are a physical trainer at a gym, hardly a business job, more sales focused, but you enjoy it because it keeps you active and you are good with people. I guarantee you there are free publications you can subscribe to all about the gym and fitness industry - with ample content at your fingertips and all you need to provide is an email address. With this knowledge you can quickly learn what areas of fitness are growing (social fitness classes, barre/crossfit/etc.) and which are shrinking (some big box middle class geared gyms). This could help you in conversations with your boss (possibly read other ways gyms are bringing in revenue and suggesting it to yours), to earn money on the side (how to become certified in those quickly growing areas), or to start your own gym one day. I don't work in the fitness industry but the above is just an example. I don't care if you are a truck driver, pizza delivery boy, or bank teller - if it's your full time career then you should know what acquisitions are going on in the space, what competition is doing well, which are doing poorly, and what the 5, 10, etc. year outlook looks like just as basics. I read 5-10 articles from trade publications a day on the industry I work in to keep fresh, and if meeting with clients will dig through their financials if they are a public company. If you do not have the enthusiasm to read about the area you work in then find a different job because there is a disconnect. No one gets dick hard excited about their work but I do find what's going on in my field to be VERY interesting and enjoy reading about it.
It's amazing what you can learn if you dedicate your computer/TV/Reddit time to quality and worthwhile reading. I am by no means an expert on all of the above subjects but it is something I started doing a lot more in the past year and have already experienced financial and social benefits from it. Since this sub has done a great job of providing advice to me in the past, I felt the need to return the favor.

scrilling19 8y ago
Reading has helped me immensely. I am really happy you put it on the level of lifting. These two combined will help you on all other areas of life. The knowledge you get through reading is vast superior compared to what the masses get it from(social media, television, other people’s viewpoints on the aforementioned). S good tip I have seen is that I go into a library and/or Barnes and Nobles on my days off and will complete two books. My goal is three books a week and I am looking to borrow books from the library and finish one book from Monday through Friday before and after work. Great post OP.
ryan_mcdonuts 8y ago
Lmfao not reading fiction? Stopped reading there. Read the classics faggot. Hugo, Melville, Homer, Steinbeck, Faulkner, Shakespeare,Dostoevsky, etc etc. Fiction excites knowledge and improves vocabulary. It’s arguably the best thing you can do to become a more interesting person.
truedemocracy3 8y ago
Enjoy talking shakespeare with other losers mate
ryan_mcdonuts 8y ago
Tbh quoting a Shakespeare sonnet is a useful party trick. Stay pleb. But also most normies who don’t read are too dumb to understand it. I imagine you are the type of person who would get assblasted by the first chapter of moby dick and then go to spark notes like a bitch.
Edit: also it’s pretty sad that somebody giving advice about reading is mentioning fucking Harry Potter and game of thrones as examples of fiction instead of actual literature. Sad.
truedemocracy3 8y ago
Someone that uses the term 'normies', cant spell 'plebe', turns his nose up to Game of Thrones, and quotes Shakespeare at parties - wow you are really a piece of work, huh?
ryan_mcdonuts 8y ago
Pleb is shorthand for plebeian. I didn’t spell it wrong.
Got is nothing compared to classical literature. Not turning my nose to it moreso pointing out your ignorance. GOT fanboys aren’t comparing those novels to the heavyweights of lit.
And Shakespeare sonnets aren’t something i just spew out like an autist. It’s all about context. If a girl likes poetry that almost always means Shakespeare. So if the conversation leads to Shakespeare then it’s an instant boost in Smv. Quoting any of his sonnets makes you seem on your shit. You clearly don’t game girls who are into that sort of thing but it works.
[deleted] 8y ago
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[deleted] 8y ago
"Fiction, Don't get me wrong it's not a waste of time, but it's a total waste of time!"
You are aware that most fiction writing is rooted in non fiction circumstances right? Saying that reading fiction is less valuable than non fiction is such a closed-minded judgment to make. Fiction teaches moral lessons, culture, history, and critical thinking.
That being said, A good list of RP fiction:
Ayn Rand - The Fountainhead
The Classic Homeric epochs (The Iliad and The Odyssey)
Oscar Wilde- The Picture of Dorian Gray
Dostoevsky - Notes from Underground
Franz Kafka - The Trial (especially relevant to the "me too" frenzy and mens' experiences in the criminal justice system)
Kurt Vonnegut - Breakfast of Champions
Obviously all those dystopian fiction books like 1984 and BNW too.
Chaddeus_Rex 8y ago
The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber by Hemingway
Smoke bellew by Jack London and The Wonder of Women by Jack London are also must reads
Master1176 8y ago
Whatever, nerd. Fiction is awesome. If all you read is non fiction, you have no fucking soul. Read Memoirs of a Misogynist by Chad T. Cocker for starters
truedemocracy3 8y ago
sounds like a waste of time, which it is.
Chaddeus_Rex 8y ago
Not when i can out talk you when speaking to foreign girls who quickly warm up to me because I eparned a little about their culture from fiction books.
Diplomatt_ 8y ago
Every activity you do doesn't have to directly translate into splitting a woman's legs or getting fun coupons.
I can't convince you to read fiction because you seem to have already made up your mind. The utility in reading fiction is opening up your brain in ways you never imagined. Being more interesting well rounded person is a byproduct of reading but more importantly having the ability to make connections/see parallels/have deeper understanding and empathy.
I read both. NF: Currently reading history on Emiliano Zapata. Recently finished Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.
F: Recently finished Breakfast of champions, (quick read) reading catch 22. Roberto Bolaños 2666 redefined my interpretation of what fiction really is.
truedemocracy3 8y ago
There are so many hours in the day my friend. Give me things relevant to the here and now over make believe stories and events. Does fiction provide benefits outside of pure enjoyment? Yea, sure. So does Netflix and Video Games if you want to make that argument.
But is it maximizing your ROI on time spent compared to other reading? Not even close. And who said this has anything to do with splitting a woman's legs. I doubt talking to a girl at a bar about an Economist article I just read will help me in that regard.
Diplomatt_ 8y ago
So you're not against reading just reading fiction because it's 'irrelevant to here and now' and doesn't provide 'ROI'. Got it.
What's the worst piece of fiction you have read?
notonlyplace 8y ago
It's the writers job to engage you, after all many men are reading the red pill, it's growing. Reading just to read is boring and pointless activity, when you find your passion you will naturally increase your knowledge.
Jonmad17 8y ago
Fiction is everything. It's not like watching a movie or playing a videogame. Good literature, particularly modernist literature, is almost a 1-to-1 representation of human thought, and it dramatizes how that thought would function in a lifelike setting. It's like emotional batting practice. I've read hundreds of books in my life, and I've learned way more from fiction than from reading non-fiction. There's more redpill truth in a good 19th century novel than in most books pushed by the manosphere.
RadioForMen 8y ago
If you could only do one or the other, I recommend you lift. That should show you how important each is. You can read casually and still be successful. You can't take fitness casually and be successful as a man IMO.
truedemocracy3 8y ago
Fortunately you should be able to do both, though I would disagree with your statement. If you looked up the most powerful people in the world I assure you they read more than lift
RadioForMen 8y ago
I agree most powerful politically or financially read more. I just personally rather be a Joe Rogan type than George Soros type.
Diplomatt_ 8y ago
Terrible analogy but if you want a RP political financial thought leader read anything Ray Dalio of Bridgewater capital. His fundamentals are rooted in history, evolution, human desire, unadulterated truth and just fucking winning.
IndianChad 8y ago
I don't think I could be myself if I didn't read some shonen manga here and then :p
hemlock35 8y ago
I disagree that fiction, if properly selected is a waste of time. Good fiction offers an accurate perspective on certain social aspects of our society (I.e. Watchmen is a story all about moral ambiguity and the virtue of the public living on a lie).
lsarcreator 8y ago
I'm surprised that he didn't throw philosophy books in there. Those can be as much help to somebody as the self help books can be.
While reading them it's preferable to go in with an open mind and take the parts that make sense to you and try to create your own philosophy of all the knowledge you're gaining, as obviously you won't have the EXACT same view on life as the multiple philosophers.
But that doesn't mean that they don't all have info worth sharing and insights on how humans can work and how humans think.
Definitely a key factor that was left out.
Also, for the manosphere it is well known we are following the lifestyle of stoicism, so one should look into Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, as it's basically sidebar material for everyone here.
sogardnitsoc 8y ago
Fiction = timewaster and WSJ should be read? Worst advice ever
truedemocracy3 8y ago
If you survey every F500 CEO you will find the WSJ as the most trusted publication.
But go ahead, enjoy your Harry Potter
KawfeenFiend 8y ago
The WSJ is a mixed bag, as are many other things. The WSJ has a particularly tendentious and toxic editorial page. It ism along the The Economist, the standard bearer of neoliberal thinking.
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truedemocracy3 8y ago
Less tangible benefits to be gained for sure
monsieurhire2 8y ago
Disagree on fiction. There is lot of truth in many of the better ones because people write true stories but change names, dates, places to avoid getting sued. Also, fiction flies under the radar more than non-fiction, where every last detail has to be verified and everything is written in a tedious lawyerly manner to avoid being wrong.... only to be wrong anyway through sheer turgidity.
lifestuff69 8y ago
I agree with you. I think if pressed, OP would probably differentiate between John Grisham novels (I admit I like these) and Shakespeare. Certain classic writers and novels have important historical, philosophical, or other significance.
SirKolbath 8y ago
I'm with you about fiction. When I was younger I didn't have a strong father figure after my grandfather died. My step-dad, who was amazing in many respects, was a functional alcoholic and workaholic. He did not teach me to be a man.
Durnik the smith from David Eddings' The Belgariad taught me more than my step-dad ever did.
AussiecuntTRP 8y ago
Agreed. Not everything is BP propaganda
Japaliicious 8y ago
I wouldn't be here if not for fiction.
I wouldn't have an idea on how to be a man if not for certain works.
I had fiction-like experiences that made me aware on how "fantasy-like" instincts and experiences also apply to real life.
It helped me to become more sly from reading so many different situations since I couldn't live life properly before.
I guess OP is desensitized. It's kinda like how showing Romeu&Juliet could make everyone applaud you centuries ago, but now it's just another history.
ayyycameron 8y ago
I don’t really ever read fiction but I appreciate the fuck out of it. It gives you another world to test things and you can find the flaws and no one dies.
officerkondo 8y ago
Agreed. Some of the greatest works of human history have been fictional. I pity OP that he thinks of nothing but mass-market fantasy when he thinks of fiction.
sdrawkcab_kaeps_i 8y ago
Totally agree. Fiction can be incredibly meaningful underneath the surface. All it requires is a bit of deep analysis and you’ll find a wealth of meaning. Some of my favourite books are those I’ve studied.
0xdada 8y ago
Read "literary fiction," which is the stuff that actually expands your ability to understand other peoples experiences, and to anticipate how they will act based on what motivates them.
When you have a literary understanding of people, you can fill in blanks about them, understand the necessary conditions for their drives, answer the question of if this person were a character in a story, what kind of story is it, what brought them to this point, and how will they make choices that further the narrative arc they believe themselves to be a part of?
The other thing is the "most famous" novels by authors are often the least interesting ones because they pander to critical tastes, where what makes them great authors is their other work. Also, there is a genre of nerd fiction that is entertaining, but it doesn't make you smarter.
Literary authors to look up include, Michel Houellebecq, early Martin Amis, F. Scott Fitzgerald (skip the Gatsby, it's lame), W. Sommerset Maughm (again human bondage is boring, but the magician, cakes and ale, etc much better. "The Razor's Edge" should be on the sidebar for its ending.), Ian McEwan's early stuff (cement garden, amsterdam, black dog).
If you want to get a sense of why artists are so douchey, read the first three books by Proust. Hemmingway might not stand the test of time, unless you read his short stories. The most red pill story of Hemmingway's that I know of is "the short happy life of francis macomber," which you can get in PDF anywhere.
Reading good writing helps you write better, and writing better makes you think better.
Chaddeus_Rex 8y ago
I was going to add "The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber" by Hemingway to your list - but you beat me to it. It honestly should be part of the sidebar. Mods please add?
[deleted] 8y ago
Not to mention moral/life lessons, increasing your vocabulary, and being able to discuss some of the most famous works of literature.
SelfTaughtPiano 8y ago
Fiction can also inspire you.
Some of the moral examplars and sources of inspiration for the qualities I want in myself as well as the life I want to live... come from fictional characters.
destraht 8y ago
Also since much of the non-fantasy stuff is based on the real world. I was killing in on the Sofia, Bulgaria walking tour two days ago; "Ottoman Empire", "Lenin", etc. I was nailing that shit after giving people seconds to answer before chiming in. It felt great. Three women were turning around and eye fucking me when they realized that I'm super on top of my shit. My competency has always been my goto for getting women. I'm tall and good looking but that doesn't mean shit in itself without another stand out thing on top of that. For my buddy that is dancing. For another person that is their singing or painting. I like to learn shit and that means that all through university the one banging hot chick in class would turn around and eye fuck me after I publicly demonstrated my outstanding competency and passion in a subject. I don't think that they give a shit about the subject matter itself. They care how I feel about it and the validation allows them to validate their feelings.
Anon241469 8y ago
Dunno if demonstrating your education gets more than eye fucking. How does that progress to taking her clothes off?
destraht 8y ago
Well I still need game to close but that attention puts me at the top of the list and it turns cold approaches into warm approaches. I've both succeeded and failed at that point.
eccentricrealist 8y ago
Agreed. Tends to be better written than non-fiction most of the time as well, barring anything strictly academic. Any neckbeard could bear to read a Confederacy of Dunces and figure out the rest from there, for example.
dirtywalrus 8y ago
I couldn't disagree more with your claim that reading fiction provides no benefit. You could amend your statement by specifying that transient fiction is of little value (which is still debatable), but to equate reading and reflecting upon The Brothers Karamazov or Anna Karenina to watching Netflix...
truedemocracy3 8y ago
There are masterpiece movies as well. Wont help you much.
Jonmad17 8y ago
A book represents human thought; a movie is a series of pictures of actors pretending that they're thinking human thoughts. You can't compare the two media at all.
truedemocracy3 8y ago
How is it no the same? Still represents a directors thoughts
Jonmad17 8y ago
When you read a book you're not just reading a description of events, you're reading a narrator's or protagonist's thoughts. In a lot of modernist literature you get to read the particular thought processes that lead them to those thoughts, while in film you're just watching the end result of those thoughts on an actor's face. So literature is a much closer representation of how human beings think than film is. Just read Moby-Dick or In Search of Lost Time and imagine how much depth would have to be ignored and flattened in order to turn them into watchable movies.
monsieurhire2 8y ago
With regard to reading, you can piss away INSANE amounts of time on it.
Have goals. Why are you reading certain publications? To get new information, most likely. But a lot of stories are "reruns."
If you read the low-end plebe publications, it's murder, murder, murder, fire, fire, minor political scandal, puff piece, thinly veiled advertisement for regional business, quackery, sports scores, cartoons, and with ads, ads, ads, ads, ads interspersed around.
If you read middle-brow publications, which is pretty much everything else that is readily available, it's basically last years news, or stuff that was news 3 or 4 years ago on the internet. Example? ZOMG, the NSA is wire-tapping everything! Not news if you read The Puzzle Palace which was printed years ago, or if you googled around and connected a few dots. What else would it be doing? Or they are trying to subtly mislead you into having opinions that get you to do stupid things like send your kids to overpriced schools, or buy stock in a company when it is overvalued, or panic over some manufactured crisis. It is really just more sophisticated tabloid yellow journalism most of the time? Remember the Ebola scare and the rise of certain related stocks to coincide with the hysteria? Or they are trying to get you to be apathetic about US militarism, euphemistically called foreign policy. I could list endless examples.
In my opinion, it is best to read widely through what could be called dissident publications, but from a wide range of factions, and try to understand where they are all coming from and what their motives are. This is because most of them are so obvious and tell you upfront, that it trains you to spot more subtle propaganda, and pretty soon you become like Neo in the matrix, seeing all language as code intended to persuade towards a particular end. As your pass through this cacophony or Chapel Perilous, you enter into the desert of the real, where you realize that most print publications are time-wasting garbage. You start to look for actionable intelligence that you can use to advance your own life in the real world. How does some bloviating about US policy in Zimbabwe advance your cause? How does the latest sports or celebrity BS advance your cause. Likely it just distracts and diverts you.
So then you come down to, what is actually worth reading:
Stuff that helps you make money: job skills, finance skills, stock trading, whatever;
Stuff that improves your brand to help you win friends, influence people, build a social circle, get laid, etc.
Stuff that gives you insight into the human condition: this where you get benefits from fiction, because it conveniently leap wherever it wants not bound by the need to stick to a historical time-line; but also non-fiction, particularly history helps with this; where you see that there is nothing new under the sun and that many of the same follies and mistakes have already occurred in older civilizations.
It's important to track what you read. If you find yourself reading the same crap over and over again, it could be that you're just giving yourself a dopamine hit, for a 2 minutes hate, or for schadenfreude, or for the lulz. Try to at least stop doing that.
Chaddeus_Rex 8y ago
Read historical military fiction like the Gates of Fire - for it teaches the reader to embrace pain and how to fight fear and how to reach the sublime. You are right to stay away from most modern fiction.
Kinbaku_enthusiast 8y ago
That description of the desert is spot on. I recently read some old books of my grandfather and realised he had written inside one. Moreover it was a historic acount of the bomb on Nagasaki (which he had survived). And in a couple of criticizing comments it made it seem he had a similar outlook.
Angu_jungle_poo 8y ago
pa, lifes not about achieving 'goals'. It's about following your own nature, doing what you require as a man. You cannot train yourself for death, only use what time you have to do exactly the fuck you want to.... TRP goes a lot deeper than 'skills', you don't need 'skills' in the afterlife hehehe
[deleted] 8y ago
Goals are tools to better do what you want to.
Angu_jungle_poo 8y ago
And what do you want to do? It is a circle that cannot end unless you believe in something other than yourself. YOU are what you want, each step you take is gracing the world with your presence. YOU are the BOSS, wherever you go.
[deleted] 8y ago
Strong disagree with much of what is written. Reading fiction is absolutely not a waste of time, manosphere reading is not a waste of time (especially if you are still learning), and I wouldn't rely on many of the sources you listed for opinion or news. There is almost no distinction between editorial and news anymore, so no, just staying away from the opinion section of the NYT is not going to cut it. Business Insider is just dumb. I wouldn't even call it biased. It's just low quality crap.
seands 8y ago
To what end is fiction beneficial? Better to read some history, philosophy etc and learn through fact and reason than story, which is a vehicle to slip in various non-truths in hard to detect ways.
Chaddeus_Rex 8y ago
Fiction is beneficial is that it teaches you human nature and about the world. What motivates the passions of a person? What drives their truths and half truths and subtleties? How should you act in a given situation? How does a Man act?
Fiction also exposes you to basic philosophy (and sometimes not even so basic) if you think deeply about everything you read. For example, how can a man reach the sublime, the highest epitome of human expression in a desperate last stand against insurmountable odds? If a man can reach the sublime in desperate conditions, about to die, surely a man at peace can achieve it in his day to day tasks? It can aslo teach one about discipline and that discipline is a day to day habit that must be cultivated.
Much non-fiction written today is tripe - search for good fiction and it will be entertaining to read but it will also allow you to absorb the lessons much better. Humans learn best through stories, especially if they captivate.
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seands 8y ago
The problem of false truths and understandings still looms in those types of texts. There are accounts of what people felt and encountered that don't rely on fiction as well.
It does seem that the case for fiction reading is quite... ficticious [self-indulgent smile]
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truedemocracy3 8y ago
Reading fiction is the equivalent of playing video games but requires more concentration. Reading manosphere is the equivalent of jerking off once you have learned the content here
NotorioG 8y ago
You're missing a very crucial fact that reading fiction forces you to use your imagination, and imagination is a key ingredient in creativity, and no matter what area you decide to focus your life and goals, your individual creativity goes a long way in creating your success.
Watching movies and playing video games -- the world has already been imagined for you, you don't have to create anything, you just watch it and let it pass through. It takes no imagination to enjoy a movie or video game.
I'm saying this as a filmmaker. I love movies and you're right there are cinematic masterpieces out there. As much as I enjoy and appreciate them, I will never be a great storyteller just by watching movies. Reading fiction is what allows my imagination and creativity to run wild.
Putins_Orange_Cock 8y ago
Oh god. You are very ignorant. There are tremendous lessons about the human condition you can glean from The Iliad, Hemingway, William Black, etc ad infintum. You sound like a kissless STEM sperg who has no life experience.
COCAINE_ADVOCATE 8y ago
I strongly disagree. In Search of Lost Time, probably one of the greatest works of literature, is a million words of RP truth embedded in the most engaging prose ever written.
The narrator's best friend is an extremely handsome, filthy rich career military man who gets oneitis for an escort. He spends a fortune on this girl, but the guy is, despite his success and SMV, a pure beta. So she fucks off with some other dude.
It is one of the first books that made me think, through sheer depth and repetition, Oh... This is how the world works.
officerkondo 8y ago
What state's public education system are you the victim of?
Reading The Brothers Karamazov, Nineteen Eighty-Four, Catch-22 or Hamlet is no different than playing Grand Theft Auto? What it must feel like to be confused when someone says, "beware of Greeks bearing gifts" or "alas, poor Yorick".
truedemocracy3 8y ago
In terms of benefits? Yes, there is no difference between 1984 and a game with a story like, say, Bioshock
You might know 'beware of greeks' and 'alas, poor Yorick'. Those arent things that will help you in your day to day
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IndianChad 8y ago
Ugh. Cmon man, read siddhartha, or even pick up the bible.
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officerkondo 8y ago
This is a conclusion. Please describe the logical progression that brought you to it.
Please explain why you think this. You can start by saying if you have ever read The Iliad or Hamlet.
truedemocracy3 8y ago
Sure. Both are stories highlighting a dystopic society that the reader/gamer experiences and can learn from. There are similarities in symbolism and themes between the two.
As for the second comment yes, I went to a basic high school. Even took shakespeare and literature courses. The people in them may be intelligent, but they are hardly successful by most measurable definitions. Knowledge of theater is like knowledge of television, pop culture, sports, etc. It's nice - but wont actually help you get anything.
officerkondo 8y ago
This is an answer a high school English teacher receives from a student who didn't do the assigned reading.
The people in what?
Every time I think this subreddit has reached peak autism, someone like you comes along and finds a way to top it.
truedemocracy3 8y ago
hahaha ok kiddo, enjoy reading hamlet. If that's the area you want to brag about being strong in congrats - you can go down to your local theater group and talk about Shakespeare in between complaining about 'the man' and that capitalism not being fair.
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ThrowFader 8y ago
I don't think you are intellectual
truedemocracy3 8y ago
Call yourself whatever you want to make you feel better chap
officerkondo 8y ago
Capitalism has been very good to me. I’m a lawyer in his early 40s who makes six figures. Despite your advice, I accomplished this while developing a familiarity with the western canon.
How have you taken advantage of capitalism?
truedemocracy3 8y ago
And has Shakespeare helped you with that success? No. It hasnt.
There are masterpieces in cinema as well. Knowing about them wont provide you a tangible benefit.
Kinbaku_enthusiast 8y ago
Honestly you put too much value on the publications you read and they are from a remarkably small perspective pool (american).
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[deleted] 8y ago
The Bible is probably the most red pill book in existence if you have an intelligence level above the average normie literalist and can understand what metaphors are.
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destraht 8y ago
Certainly you mean the only very large name recognizable media sources.
How about:
17 years ago, this 80 year old lady ran a John Birch Society hole in the wall bookstore and I was exposed to tons of literature and books that would have otherwise been two decades ahead of my trajectory. There were books on the communists, Nazis, Rothschilds, Federal Reserve (Creature from Jekyl Island), UN, Agenda 21, The Guidestones, Proofs of a Conspiracy, Bilderbergs, 911, etc. They had a ton of good shit packed into a basically an indoor kiosk. I still get tinglies thinking about it.
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destraht 8y ago
The Left and Right are just elaborate rationalizations for theft. They always hate schools of thought which aren't just simply existing for this for this purpose. The Nazis, Marxists, Lenists, Keynesian, etc have all abhorred everything derived from Ludwig Von Mises' Austrian School and not perverted away from the original spirit of it such as the Chicago School (which is just Neocon ideology perfected for South America exploitation).
Human Action free PDF
truedemocracy3 8y ago
Just because something is gobalist, liberal, etc. doesnt mean you should avoid it. If anything you should challenge your beliefs with those strong publications. I dont use The Economist to turn my brain off and tell me how the world works, often enough I find their solutions overly simplistic and futile (mainly anything with foreign policy or immigration). But if you want to learn what is happening in Asia, Africa, Latin America, etc. from both a political and business standpoint there really isnt anything better that I've found.
Chaddeus_Rex 8y ago
Its better to avoid Western sources on any country outside of Western alliances for they will mislead you.
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truedemocracy3 8y ago
You shouldnt avoid anything and decide for yourself on issues. Willingness to challenge beliefs is what got us here in the first place.
Patriarchysaurus 8y ago
What you're saying is antithetical to the entire thesis of this sub.
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[deleted] 8y ago
The truth is everyone who pays taxes is a beta cuck provider. Globalist feminist Leftist welfare queens stealing our resources, backed by an army of betas in uniform with guns.
A large majority here are still plugged in and don't even know it. Instead of being controlled by a bunch of machines in some sci-fi flick, we're controlled by the state. We're cattle.
truedemocracy3 8y ago
Enjoy being fed information hand to mouth like a child
truedemocracy3 8y ago
So you will never seek out information that challenges your world view? Truly reflective of a weak mind.
Patriarchysaurus 8y ago
No. Its not what challenges one's subjective world view. It is understanding objective reality and working within artificial paradigms to achieve one's mission in the Real World. You can't challenge anything with information that's designed to keep you ignorant. You don't get to pick and choose.
e.g. According to you, Morpheus would tell Neo that being aware of Reality or unaware and living in the Matrix are equally authentic states, and reality is only determined by personal opinion.
truedemocracy3 8y ago
lmao yes. Learning about acquisitions in your industry and political events is Ghana is designed to keep you ignorant.
How about stop bragging about being uninformed and start reading about the real world.
Patriarchysaurus 8y ago
Your perception is manufactured, but so long as you're "informed" by the latest propaganda, you're able to continue feeling intellectually superior. The irony.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PtjfoEvsR9w
https://youtu.be/9aLQPNPlK5M
downvotesanimals 8y ago
It helps to read quality publications of all political persuasion. There are smart and well spoken people of the left, right and center and understanding as many perspectives as possible is important if only to know why you hold the positions you hold.
truedemocracy3 8y ago
This exactly. I love reading things from both aisles. Not only does it help you better reform your own position, but enables you to understand opposing beliefs and what drives them.
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downvotesanimals 8y ago
I doubt you know very much at all about what I believe.
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JamesSkepp 8y ago
You should fire NRS as your ghostwriter.
Also, stop trolling and baiting with that kind of garbage advice.
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JamesSkepp 8y ago
You're the last person who should be talking about "conventional", as you're the one who's promoting such "conventional" concepts as tradition, culture and religion.
Kinbaku_enthusiast 8y ago
Except they're not conventional in the west at all anymore. And haven't been for decades, besides maybe mimickry versions of it while ever ceding ground without protest.
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Timthetiny 8y ago
Tradition by definition is convention.
Basic literacy would help your cause.
JamesSkepp 8y ago
Do explain.
Accepting classic marriage as solution to anything (let alone a goal for a man) is not RP. Divorce rape is an additional side effect of the marriage, not something that ruined the marriage - you got AIDS by shooting drugs with needles, the solution is not to clean the needles, it's to not do drugs. Had you been not married, you wouldn't got divorce raped. Had you been not married, you wouldn't even remotely need to worry about her cheating or that your kids are not yours and so on.
There's ZERO benefit for a man in any form of classic marriage, perhaps even as far as polygamous marriage too. Marriage (which is major part of tradition, culture and religion) gave us the civilization we live in, but it ruined the men. We now have the means (both mental and physical) to move away from false premises that others tell us are good, right or worthy. THAT is unconventional.
It's a big generalization. There are RP things in there, there are BP things there too. Another big generalization I can do is: the three concepts basically boil down to enforcing status quo (culture changes non stop, shaped by changes in technology), slavery to higher authority (both mental and physical, somebody has to tell you what tradition and culture should be like) and obedience to what masses accept as "tradition" and "culture" in their respective times ("be like us or face ostracism").
When it actually comes to you tho:
100 years from now the tradition and culture can be "50 genders and replacing national identity with corpo allegiance", you would not espouse that, you want the "classic" pre-industrial values (broadly speaking). Thus, you're not for "tradition, culture and religion" - you're for specific versions that YOU accept as the right ones. Might as well be open about it and admit that you want YOUR version of the world and that "tradition, culture and religion" are simply tools to indoctrinate masses.
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JamesSkepp 8y ago
Directly - none. Indirectly - all of them, as long as it's the religion or culture of your ancestors (or perhaps country/nationality).
I'd rather have them root themselves in their individuality, in their missions and in their independence from others. Groupthink is the bane of this civilization.
Which is nice in theory, in practice it almost always ends up with conflict (at best conflict of interest, at worst in actual conflict) b/c the values are going to be different for every group and will always prioritize own group at the expense of another.
Why would you even want that?
One can have strong identity he chose and built himself. Historical understanding should be used to transcend the differences in groups, not to preserve them b/c "it's our heritage to be xyz forever". Not to mention the fact that "historical understanding" for an average human boils down to "who invaded us, who we invaded and who won", thus giving people not internal identity but an external enemy.
True, but why you chose these beliefs? Why not unabridged masculinity, why not individual freedom, why not rationality (instead of ideology, culture, religion etc)?
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JamesSkepp 8y ago
In 7bn people it's impossible to be a snowflake, I can agree with that. Deliberately, willingly working not to be one is absurd, especially as a man. I get that you want people rallying behind the banner, and that this has it's utilitarian value, but this is going to raise people who cannot think for themselves just want someone to tell them what to believe in. This is not going to fix anything in the long run, b/c you're going to be replaced by someone else sooner or later. This is temporary grab for power, not reforming the system.
TL/DR?
I still see this as: your problem with that is they are being suckered into not the one you want them to be suckered in. As I said, I can see the utilitarian value of "brainwashing" people to believe something, but if we're going to do that, why not aim for higher, long term goals anyway?
If that's the case, we differ in scales only: you simply want national, ethnic monocultures. The difference is in scale, not in principle.
True, doesn't mean we should cling to it as some kind of ultimate and more importantly permanent (changes with time, therefore it changes with the history of the country) value. Not to mention there mere number of cultures practically guarantees conflict of interest, b/c some people just don't give a shit about your culture - b/c their culture told them to.
True.
A similar question: why do you care (or suddenly started at least) about conserving cultures, traditions, etc. so much? I get that one wouldn't want Germany to disappear into formless collective of EU, but it's not likely/realistic scenario anyway, at best a sci-fi trope. Even on the more familiar TRP ground: men are not going to change from betas and BPs b/c they suddenly found great value in German culture either. So what's with that? Ideological conflict with globalization? Contrarian stance simply b/c it's not mainstream? Individual "I want my world to look like this and that, so I will shape it accordingly" ?
I can vaguely imagine the end goal, what I don't understand is motivation behind it.
Kinbaku_enthusiast 8y ago
Classic marriage didn't have divorce rape. Hence, it's part of modern marriage, not classic marriage.
If drugs otherwise had only positive effects, the solution would exactly be to clean the needles or to not share them. It's the other effects of drugs that causes that reckless behaviour.
It didn't until the last 50 years, so it was not marriage that was the problem, but the intentional perversion of marriage. Of course birth control pill and socialism/welfare played a mayor part in that equation as well. Marriage was a mutually beneficial relationship where a man traded resources for female fertility. It was a good deal for men, because it hugely increased their chance for procreation. It was a good deal for women because it hugely increased their chance for survival. It was a good deal for society because it increased male competition and productivity as well as created the strongest possible next generation.
Honestly, if you want to take down a society so that you can control it, the most effective way is to destroy healthy families. Here's such a brainstorm from the population council: a eugenicist group started by john rockefeller III.
After that, you convince people, business leaders and politicians that you need migrants to fill up productivity roles. Tadaa, decline of the west.
No, because any society that rejects truth to that level will fall to foreign invaders and be supplanted by their culture instead.
You may or may not be right here. However you are probably wrong as /u/gayluboil didn't explain exactly how he defined that so it's a moot point. You might have reached a better discussion if either he explained what he meant, or you had asked him what he meant. He seems to not have explained intentionally and I can see a kind of value in that.
However you seem to view this superficially in the way most people are primed to regard this, with an essentially postmodern view that there can be no rational examination on which values are or aren't the right ones.
Above all you seem to not have understood or accepted that (in the west) the postmodern world view is mainstream, not fringe. Even people that don't consider themselves postmodern, (or feminist or neomarxist or other postmodernist informed ideology) hold numerous postmodern "truths" as self-evident.
JamesSkepp 8y ago
Classic as in "man marries woman in front of state and/or church official". Classic as in "boundaries put on both parties, both self enforced and enforced by state (or some other form of authority that has power to punish for leaving the marriage or tell you how your marriage should look like)". Definitely not meant "classic" as modern, recent.
What are the positive effects of marriage for a man? Is there anything he gets from a marriage that he couldn't get while staying single?
Of course it was the marriage. The secure belief we had in the marriage as something to save us from the nature of the woman, made us weak and complacent. We indulged in the BP belief that b/c we, men, are running the world - women will obey us inside the structure we created (it's no different from the BP belief that b/c we do stuff for them, they should be grateful). The women being women, don't give a flying fuck about that kind of stuff.
The "perversion of marriage" is another BP belief, namely that women behave like they do b/c marriage is broken. The reality is, women always behaved like this, marriage was for US to believe in, they simply went along with what WE wanted to believe in.
The moment you put alpha into this type of comittment, he stops being an alpha and becomes a provider. It's a
systematicsystemic way of producing BP men and beta-ising men. You want THAT to be enforced by state or society?Contraception gave us freedom from being forced to commit just b/c you wanted to fuck a girl and got her pregnant.
And now that we don't have to trade resources to fuck a girl, it's obsolete. It will probably become obsolete for women to, once some form of Universal Basic Income get's implemented. Men don't want (and need, we have technology and civilizational opportunity to mitigate the problem of heir) the fertility anymore, they want faithfulness - and this cannot be bought and negotiated for (as entire history shows, 10k years of marriage did nothing to change that). Not with resources anyway.
If that train of though was factually correct, men, from the moment we first implemented marriage (15-10k years ago) would become stronger and stronger (physically and mentally). The opposite is true.
Honestly, this is pure alt-right conspiracy theory. In the family, the man matters the most - according to classic marriage you're proponent of. Thus all it takes is to make him weak, and that doesn't require ANY outside intervention, b/c this process has been going on for thousand of years now.
SOME values change their "priority" b/c the context changes (both in meaning and in time). In 1939 my ancestors fought invading Nazis. They were patriots, so were the Nazi sodiers, so were the Soviet ones. So are the US vets from Middle East (fighting for not their oil, but your low price of it), funny enough so are the people who want to US to take it's dick out of their country's future. So you tell me if patriotism is universally right or perhaps "it depends".
The same thing happened with marriage - yes, it probably did give early societies enough stability so they didn't have to invade others for women (tho I'm not convinced about this being an issue that much). Is marriage the apex, the ultimate and the best form m-f relationship can take? No it's not. It's what we had, but some people think that b/c we had it for 10 000 years, it must be the best thing ever. We had smallpox for 10 000 years too, doesn't mean it's the right way to weed out weak from strong.
At best I can agree that it's the most promoted.
Anyway - what I never understood is how on Earth can you people (anti-postmodernists to be short) come to the conclusion that since postmodernism is bad, what was before it must be good (or worse - the best). You fail to understand that postmodernism (as was ANY cultural innovation) came to be as a result of previous cultures, not as out of the blue invention. And, as history shows, culture doesn't go backwards.
Chaddeus_Rex 8y ago
Yes it does - culture went backwards from the enlightened philosophy and the science of the Greeks and marvels of engineering of the Romans to the Dark Ages promoted by a religion and its fanatical priests.
JamesSkepp 8y ago
Backwards as in from the current period to the one before it. I had similar discussion about it, the gist is if we assume we live in post-modern world, the move backward would be to modernism.
Kinbaku_enthusiast 8y ago
Don't ask questions that I answer in my post. Female fertility.
No, contraception was one of the ways in which top-down planned depopulation took place. And as they usually do, they couch it in terms like freedom and happiness to make you take their blue pills that go against biological truth and success.
Now you're not after women's fertility, but after their markers of fertility without getting fertility, because birth control pills makes women infertile.
No, I linked a document that you can check the source for where one of the wealthiest and most powerful families in the world had a goal of changing marriage and perception of marriage to cause depopulation. Women were always women, but previously, women shamed other women for being sluts and as such there was a huge social cost for cheating. Now women encourage each other cheat, speaking broadly.
This does not mean women never cheated or marriages were never wrecked and men never raised another man's children. But the factual evidence is literally just against you and I've already provided one piece of evidence for it.
Universal basic income is a way to gain full control over people. It is the second to last step necessary for a mass depopulation event. Because once you control people and they only cost money, what value are you to wealthy and powerful people really? They might let you raise one more generation of loafers, who will be so mal-educated that they'll go into the night forever without a fight, or more likely, helping each other into the night as every previous instance of socialist equality has done and is doing right now in Venezuela.
Of course it is universally right, as universally right as it is to try and score goals for your own team when playing football and as wrong as it is to try and score goals for the opposing team or try and stand there "neutrally". War is about competition. Although I would go one step further and say that wars aren't and haven't been about benefiting the host nations so much as the puppet masters behind them who can benefit from predicting world events by shaping world events through war.
You didn't address the postmodernist claims at all, but just focused on applying it to marriage.
Postmodernism is bad because if we both fully accepted it, we could not have a conversation about good or bad at all. That's why on a philosophical level, it's the complete antithesis of philosophy itself. And by being anti-philosophical and completely eradicating of examination of good and bad, it's the absolute most evil type of ideology, en par with trying to figure out (non-postmodernisticly) what is bad and making that your ideology.
Ha ha ha, yes it does, we went from enlightenment to modernism to postmodernism. That's a two pretty big leaps backward.
Do I want to go back to exactly what was before? I'd rather improve on it where possible. But rooting out the corruption introduced into our thinking from the frankfurt school of sociology, among others? Yes, please.
In any case, when someone comes to conclusion that postmodernism is bad, it makes sense that one would prefer an alternate to it. The assumption that every cultural innovation is an objective improvement would imply that no mistakes can ever be made. And every fallen empire in history would disagree with you.
I bet if we had drinks and talked for a while I could figure out what things you do value, and what cultures you do consider corrupt or less valuable, because few are postmodernist to their deepest core and any philosophy that doesn't withstand being embraced that fully is an incomplete one. And then from that center of things you value we'd work outwards.
If there is one thing you value or disvalue, this means value judgements do exists.
If I asked you for evidence why this one thing is better than the other, you could probably provide empirical evidence for it.
And if there is empirical evidence for it and this proves a certain thing to have value, then that can not be held as truthful at the same time as the postmodernist view that everything is relative. It's either / or. You can't have both.
ps: I saw I linked it badly before. In case you missed it, here it is
JamesSkepp 8y ago
Sure, what else?
Conspiracy theory, laughable as that. At best you can claim that they were researching how to control population growth, which is not a bad thing at all. Depopulation tho (not population growth control) is nothing more than conspiracy theory.
You provided a conspiracy theory to counter my claim that "AWALT and marriage won't change that". Really now...
You want an argument against this or will simple "you're fucking nuts" suffice? The sooner you stop believing garbage like that, the faster you will find how things actually are.
Great, so if I'm not living in Boston or Philly, should I support Eagles or Patriots or none? Can I support either of the teams if I'm not a US citizen?
IOW you're gonna be a patriot and go to war even tho you believe that the war(s) you're supporting (as patriotic duty dictates) is/are unjust. Conspiracy nuts used to call non-believers "sheeple". You're one, b/c you unquestioningly accept raising the banner as reason enough in itself.
No, I didn't b/c I don't believe postmodernism is the main or only reason why current situation looks as it does. Marriage was chosen as most concrete, and universal example of 3 different things I was talking about with GLO.
Not true at all. I'm pretty sure postmodernist (the actual ones, like JBP-level people) themselves have that kind of discussions fairly often, both among themselves and with their critics. It's just that they, bound by their own rules, must tolerate every position (dogmatic rigor), regardless of it's actual validity.
Backwards as "to what was before". 1>2>3, A>B>C is forward, B>A, 2>1 would be backward. In the context of our discussion, "backwards" would mean from postmodernism to tradcon (or something like that).
RK4765 8y ago
Reading the great works of fiction like Crime and Punishment or the Great Expectations is in no way like watching Netflix, you're completely off there. Examinations of culture and investigations into the nature of humanity via quality novels are worth all the time invested.
arrayay 8y ago
I, for one, think Great Expectations is a pill of shit.
Flynn-Lives 8y ago
I agree. Crime and Punishment is one of my favorite books. Great Expectations is one of the few books that I could never finish, and I've finished books like Infinite Jest without any problem.
StarbornProject 8y ago
I agree with most of it, but I'd stay away from coaching or self-help books, most are a scam anyway, based on demonstrated flawed principles.
Also, because of my studies, I spend a lot of time reading research, but I won't expect anyone without a minimun knowledge in the field (and with minimun I'd say... about 1-2 years in college) to really understand research, it's dense, it's very specialized and it's not helpful besides academia or very rare exceptions (where you'll be encouraged to read research anyway).
Good resources of information are really hard to find, but you've mentioned a few good ones
truedemocracy3 8y ago
I've tried research and it's definitely worthwhile but as you said very dense and if you arent in that field it is getting a lot of squeeze for a little juice.
However, there is a ton of benefit in understanding how to interpret it. Because what a study says and what a Yahoo! article SAYS it says can be completely different
StarbornProject 8y ago
as I said, there are other scientific and valid sources, that adapt much better the information. If you want to read academia then go ahead, read it, it's positive. But for the common folk, it's much better to use adapted sources, that tell the same information in a simpler way
I'll give you an example, look at the difference between reading these two same statements:
"c = (2 G M / r)1/2 is behind revised as it doesn't follow the Schwarzschild metric for some points in a very particular tensor"
"Modeling black holes with classical physics was possible until a discrepancy in the 4-dimensional Einstein's field was discovered"
cyrutvirus 8y ago
I disagree. Self-help and coaching books are an excellent source of information. That being said, there is a plethora of self help books that are not the best or offer flawed information, but that’s your job as the reader to pick out the adequate ones.
StarbornProject 8y ago
please, can you name me some?
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Kinbaku_enthusiast 8y ago
I read research almost weekly as a layman. It didn't require two years of college. Though i have no certainty I am understanding it all, I do learn more about academic research with every publication i read. I agree that it is rarely helpful, but its better than to read the journalists description of said research, which only rarely seems to cover the topic at all as I'm sure you're well aware.
StarbornProject 8y ago
well, journalism does a terrible, terrible job with that, but what I recommend is reading scientists blogs, they explain everything much more simpler. It also depends on what you read, physics, math and such can be damn hard to understand without a good foundation, while biology, psychology and some biomedical research can be mostly understood
Kinbaku_enthusiast 8y ago
You're assuming I trust scientists to describe things accurately, or that the simplified results will grant the same knowledge as knowing the test that something is based on. It's not that I distrust scientists as a whole, but they are human with human motivations and biases.
Looking back on it, most of the studies I've read were actually biology and biomedical.
I know my limits and I know I wouldn't be able to understad physics and math papers even if I spent years on the foundations. I'm good at math compared to peers, but the people who work on those papers are another level of gifted and intelligent.
As a whole thanks for the recommendation, but I prefer to go to the source and pay for it with sweat and time.
StarbornProject 8y ago
in that case I hope you get the information that you are looking for, there won't be anything more worthy of trust that a scientific paper published by a scientific journal, that makes all they can to disprove it. If you are interested in medicine, I recommend you Cochrane library and New England Journal of Medicine, they offer top tier information and validity; The Lancet and British Journal of Medicine are also good, and in case you just want to search for a specific topic, Pubmed is the way to go
Kinbaku_enthusiast 8y ago
Like most people educated in universities, you place too high a value on it, in my opinion. The reproduction crises in various fields are examples of being reasons not to place too high a value on it. Though again, I recognise the same does not hold for fields like physics and math, and if that's what you're mostly focused on and studying, go do your thing, you're probably smarter than me (though possibly more naive).
Outside of those fields though.....
And thanks for your recommendations, that's always valuable.
StarbornProject 8y ago
I'm not smarter than anyone else, maybe more educated but that's it. But it is true that science has its problems, but then, I see no better way to know truth, specially to that level of detail. False data is an issue but it's very minimal, scientists caught doing it are swiftly done, and most of the problems with validity comes from the method itself (specially in medicine and biology, where proof is so difficult because they are not exact sciences). Aproach any scientific article trying to see if you can make an argument against it that isn't already covered there, if they lack enough foundation, ignore that article, because it's flawed. In medicine and life sciences, chi-squared and regression analysis is commonly used, know that thos eare very reliable statistical analysis to be done; there are a lot of types of studies, but metaanalysis are the most exhaustive and exact, followed by clinical trials, you should aim to find those kind of papers, it is important that they are randomized, so there is absolutely no way to manipulate results: if they aren't double-blinded randomized, then you are wasting your time, as anyone in that study could've falsified everything. There are more things to take into consideration, but those are the basics, I hope it helped you, please feel free to ask anything that you'd like to know
Kinbaku_enthusiast 8y ago
Certainly less educated on IQ, or at least mis-educated on it.
If you're going to university, you're likely at least IQ 110+ which places you above average. Which makes you smarter than most people in your country, if you define "smartness" by IQ, which I do.
But perhaps you were just saying so out of social politeness.
The problem isn't false data, the problem is (mostly) false positives. This guy explains better than I could. (you only need to watch 1 minute from the timestamp I gave).
Pretty much, yes.
I need to study and understand both of those, thank you. I typically accepted them as truthful in the past. I'll take your word for it until I understand them better.
How do you come to this conclusion? When there is a reproduction crisis, meta analysis may be the most exhaustive, but is it really the most exact?
I agree. Still looking for one that shows long term positive effect from ritalin/concerta/etc (methylphenidate) for ADHD or ADD. I got a rather aggressive response from a psychiatrist that I contacted. I see that doctors that have been sued for sharing research that shows potential dangers (and winning phyrric victories of law costs).
It hasn't helped my somewhat distrustful stance, while recognising that most people in charge of these types of research are typically far smarter than me (IIRC 140 is about average IQ for professors in general).
It did, and thank you for your helpful stance.
StarbornProject 8y ago
Ah I know verisatium, and I knew that video a while ago, unfortunately he's wrong, you'll understand why (I will get pretty technical with math, we aware of it)
In science, you make a hypothesis about a fenomena, and then you refute it with an experiment, that's the basics. The problem here is that, no matter how many cases you look, there will be never enough, as you have to be correct 100% of the time, something that isn't possible because you can't analize 100% of the present and future cases. So, what we do, is to say that we are "as close to the truth" as possible, but what does that mean...
Imagine you ask me "what is the height of a human being", I couldn't give you an answer because people have different heights, but what I can do is to give you a range of numbers that covers them, so imagine I say: "Humans are, at least, more than 10cm and less than 5m tall", of course I'm right, but the range I'm choosing is huge, so in order to make comparisons, you have to get the minimal range possible. And not only that, but since you can meassure every human in the present and the future, you'll have to extract those numbers with a sample, that is, a small ammount of people of that population.
So, imagine I meassure the height of 200 people, then I meassure some statistical numbers (mainly central values and how disperse values are from that center), and then I analyze them, but how?
See, if I represent those data from lowest to highest, they tend to make a curve (not always, but for now assume they always do), that is called "Gauss curve", and it is totally measurable. WHat we try to do is to make some math tricks to make that curve be similar to other curves, that have important properties (mainly area surface), the most basic one is z curve, that has a total area of 1, and is "standart" (meaning that it normalizes all values, so you can compare anything, no matter the units, values, etc...), this curve has the important property that, among a certain distance in deviation, comon to any distribution, you can find most of the values (95% and 99% to be exact), this is called confidence interval, and the value that is beyond that is called p.
So imagine I say "average male height is 1'7m, standart deviation is 0,07cm", that means that 95% of males, that are represented with that sample, will have a height between 1'56 and 1'87, and that means that 5% of males with those same characteristics will have other heights, beyond that range, that can't be explained using statistics. You can improve the range, but then data dilutes, because then the range becomes wider, and as I said, it's most useful when it's as thight as possible, so you can compare. Notable and more accurate distributions are pareto distribution (economics and such), anova and t (medicine) and some others not used as often (bimodal distributions, etc...)
Now, that means that a certain part of the population isn't represented there, but wait, because there's more. This is actually not what it's done, because this is used only in descriptive studies.
Now, imagine you have two samples, and you want to compare them, then you do what I mentiones, you have two curves, and then you compare them. You just put them in the same graph, and watch the % of those graphs that are overlapping. So imagine...
Imagine that the shortest man to ever exist is 1'4m, and that the tallest woman to ever exist is 1'2m... if you graph both distributions, you'll see that the upper part of the women's one won't even touch the lower part of the men's one, so 0% is overlapping. This is what's analyzed, and then, because they aren't touching, it's said that both disftributions are different (and as such, both populations are different too, with significance)
Now, imagine that we have two distributions. The criteria to say if they are equal or not is called test of normality, and it calculates a critical value where difference becomes so significant, that it's considered real to 100% of the cases. This significance parameter is called alpha, and in medicine it usually tend to be 0,01, or even lower, but for it to be scientific, it needs to be, maximun, 0,05 (remember the confidence interval and p-value), in mathematics and physics is suer, super low, like... 0,00000000001 or such, that level of significance is immpossible to reach in medicine, as many data would be huge otherwise. Now again, imagine we compare to samples and 1% is shared, that doesn't mean that 1% isn't represented (like in distribution description), it means that 1% isn't know, and that it could be distribution A or B (or in medicine, sane or ill, men or women, effective treatment or not...), but it doesn't say that 1% of those data doesn't correspond, see?
Most sensible and correct normal tests are shapiro-wilk and kolmogorov-smirnov.
Then, we have regression. Now that you know how to compare samples to know the population, you can undestand regression. Imagine i tell you "I'll give you 1 dollar for each even number that you get with this six sided dice", and you roll 1,4,4,3,6; then you probably know how many dollars I owe you. But imagine I tell you "in order to obtain the max value, which numbers would you change, and why", you certainly know the answer. That is because there is a correlation between you rolling an even number and me giving you a dollar, in other words, if you manage to get condition A, then B follows. Now this is where math gets very tricky, as you will see that sometimes very big mistakes can happen. What we do is to plot data, and instead of finding the curve that we used before, now we use other forms, with other properties, the most common is a line (that's called linear regression, but there are others), so if you don't have more points, but you follow that line, then you can preddict those future points. Again, what we really do is to use that point as the average, and then calculate a confidence interval around it: Whatever data I'm missing, it's there.
The problem with regression is that correlation (measured between 1 and 0, representing how good data follows that line) doesn't imply causation, meaning that sometimes there is a very solid correlation, that means absolutely nothing (wearing blue shoes is correlated with car accidents, but you'll understand that this is nonsense), so is up to further analysis to prove the hypothesis. In reality, regression is never used to prove an argument because of this, but it's used to know what to study next, because if there's a correlation, then maybe there's something going on there. another problem (in fact explained by veritasium) is that correlation isn't stable, so maybe your data points in a direction, but in reality, given enough time, it would point to the opposite... this is knows as regression towards the mean, and in medicine they try to solve this by doing every experiment at least 6 times, proving that those 6 times had the exact same results. Given enough time, this problem can be fixed, but there's nothing that can be done about it.
Chi-squared and pearson method are the most used regression analysis, and they're very good in medicine. RMS method is most used in physics, and mathematics don't use models, but isntead, they do their own analysis from scratch
This isn't near enough to cover everything, but at last, I'll tell you that metaanalysis is by far the best evidence work because it analyzes ALL science done in a specific hypothesis, and compares it one by one. It's very rare to find it, because it's very hard to do, but as you can see, there will be no regression towards the mean, population is fully represented, and papers are classified acordingly to the quality of the science done. Next, there's clinical trials, they can be mistaken because of everything said, but they're totally random, so there's no way they have false data (but as I told you, you can still be wrong even with true data); besides, their sample might not be suited for your population (say you want to know how sugar affects fat people... but maybe their sample is full of diabetic people, you can't use that data then, even if it's correct). Then there's other kind of studies, that try to focus on other things, but I'd stay away from them, because they are harder and they are not random
Kinbaku_enthusiast 8y ago
0.01 or 0.01%? I presume the former.
Up to now it was clear (and already known), but here I'm not even seeing what you're trying to convey.....
...and having looked up and understood regression, I'm still not exactly sure what you're trying to convey here. The questions I'm asking myself:
I think I told you, but it's fine, we both knew it going in.
You're the first scientist (science student?) I've spoken to who contests what's being said in this video and that interests me, but it's not clear to me what part you consider to be wrong.
So could you maybe state clearly what part the video is making a mistake?
kuck_kriller 8y ago
CNBC
HAHA no. Downvoted and removed
truedemocracy3 8y ago
Fair enough. Stay ignorant brother
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Rares5555 8y ago
I have a post about reading as well, really insightful and in tune with this one. If you guys check it out, let me know.
Captain_Save_A_Hoe_ 8y ago
Work as a spy and befriend both sides of the conflicts. Example would be if you want to know about the Syrian conflict in a more detailed way befriend a honest, sunni muslim. Theyre probably not open so you have to nag at them for a long time but its what you must do. Then befriend a Shia or Jew for example and get their perspective on it... Eventually you are educated on the matter.
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