This is copied from an OYS I posted on the subreddit, but I am curious of the perspective of TRP of this topic in isolation.
I have been thinking quite a bit about quality and caliber of women. I grew up quite poor; single wide trailer, no central air or heat, literal fleas and roaches, single mother working at a bar to raise us, weird traumatic shit throughout childhood, etc. Former white trash (maybe others on here can relate). Now I have a good job, live in a nice home, etc.
I have fucked and dated girls from ‘the other side’; pretty, intelligent, from decent homes, decent neighborhoods, that dress well, speak well, good parents, good grandparents, decent jobs, sociable, polite, you name it. All metrics for ideal LTR. When I think of these girls, I think of them as not having the metaphorical ‘fleas’ picked up from a lifetime of poverty and trauma with girls from a background like mine I have been with or dated.. Normal adjustment. (It seems like in my experience, there tends to be a tendency for girls from a less than ideal background to have baggage.)
Some part of me feels I don’t truly deserve LTR’s with girls like this, maybe that if they get to close, they’ll see the metaphorical ‘fleas’ I couldn’t shake off even as I do game them and land them again, but then I think about the guys that often end up in LTR’s with girls like this from observation from life; skinny fat lazy nepo chodes with no to mediocre game that look and dress like shit, as well as do whiny unattractive shit… You know, the average dude… just born in a better than not family and neighborhood. Dudes I frankly mog in most ways. A pool of dudes that deserve to have their best prospects stolen due to their indolence.
You could say naturals get with girls like that. Will a blue pilled natural actually keep a decent girl? Many times no, but I also see quality girls put up with volumes of lazy unattractive shit for years with no complaint.
Then comes the question of the downsides of that sort of girl; Tina from Edina, if any of you are familiar with Aaron Clarey (for those that aren't, Tina from Edina means some gradient of daddy's spoiled princess). I have dated the Tina from Edina type seriously. It was not fun (other than the sex).
Then the next logical question, if a person did want that sort of girl, how would a person repeatably achieve it? Would these girls as a whole be less likely closed via cold approach? I imagine girls like that would lean much more into social circle game. I do think that daygame success selects for girls with a certain set of characteristics, but that’s a whole other conversation. That said, girls like that are likely in run clubs, gyms, etc.
All that said, I have two questions I'm asking for thoughts on: when screening for girls to consider for an LTR, how important is the girl's background, family, past trauma, etc to you guys? Is it something you think about?
have any other men on here struggled with feelings like this? If so, what helped? I find this is a barrier in the "I am enough" frame in my cold approach and game.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1d ago
Family: deeply important
-they were her formative experience and where most of her values derive from. They will also try to be judge jury and executioner if you become ultra serious later. They will also be your in laws. Probably the most important relationship variable besides the girl herself.
Background: very important.
-Being poor doesn't necessarily matter but for example if she was around delinquents, unsupervised friends growing up, low value people (character wise) it will all add up. Her lifestyle she lived in her background is critically important
Past trauma: extremely important
-you are going to be dating her trauma. She is going to replace you with her trauma person when she is set off. She is going to run her trauma script every time she is set off, it will be like she's talking to someone else in a different time in the moment and completely ruin the energy. She won't even realize she's doing it and will 100% hold any negative reactions you have to it against you even though she wasn't reacting to "you" in the moment.
-You will have to pay for everyone else's mistakes while she gives you zero grace for your own. Then after she traumatizes you from the experience she will not appreciate anything you did for her and will Briffault's Law you and not help you clean up the damage she left you to deal with. Just avoid traumatized women.
-It takes them decades to fully get over their traumas. Decades you do not have to abandon your peace for that shit. That and it isn't just trauma, but all the comorbidities that come with trauma: depression, anxiety, anger, emotion dysregulation
Yes I am struggling to think there are any good suitable women out there. I plan on moving to a better area (culturally, politically, socially) because I think that will fix half the problem with that. Your environment really matters for percentage of viable women around as does your own value
Fortunately male trauma and resilience are very different than that of women. Assuming you climb from the ashes of your adversities and excel it won't necessarily hold you back in finding a good woman
(I primarily want to move for my own happiness, not women, but it should get better from that alone)
qzone 1h ago
I'm running into this problem as well. Seems like in my rural area all of the women that are attractive and aren't trashbags either move away to a city or marry at 19 and don't divorce. Can't tell you how many reasonable looking attractive women I go to open and then notice they have a ring on, or are too young to approach. Seems like it's every girl that's halfway normal looking. All the good ones get jumped on right away, possibly by high school sweetheart, and then all that's left are the hot chicks with 3 mental health diagnoses and the ugly/fat chicks. Way easier to have volume of girls to open that are worth opening when I travel to a city (can't move due to an elderly family member that doesn't have a lot of time left and career commitments) and I do open them and have had success.
Even when I do start seeing a girl that seems quality from my area, pretty quick I find out some gross baggage or mental illness or some shit to where they're a plate at most. The last girl I was fucking was great until I figured out she was rigid on sharing custody of her and her ex's dogs for the whole lives of the dogs as well as had thousands of dollars of his debt in her name. WTF? Pounded that shit for a while till the plate fell. One of the last conversations I had with her I told her "you know the dog thing is going to be a colossal red flag if not deal breaker for anyone new you meet, right?" she said "I know and I don't care"... she was 23 y/o.. closed a cute mid twenties redhead recently, date was fine till she mentioned she had a suicide attempt a few months ago...
I didn't used to be of the mindset that a chick in her mid twenties that hasn't settled down with someone should be immediately cause for caution, but I'm starting to believe it. Every time I meet one of those couples where it's a "how the fuck did you land that" situation where it's a skinnyfat beta dork with a traditional down to earth arm candy, they've been together for years and met at like 15-19. Nowadays, girls that are around 25 or up in my area I expect to be recreational use only though am always open to being proven wrong. Hoping I run into the down to earth 19 year old arm candy without mental health diagnosis or baggage that is content in relationships soon, don't know where these beta faggots are finding them, if I find another after that I'll send her your way brother.
Have been working on my personal marketing as well. I don't know if I'm a crazy bitch magnet or what.
First-light 2 21h ago
Women are easily shaped by their circumstances. Background is very important. Aside from "does she pass the boner test" its the most important thing. The thing to screen for is dysfunction and this can be quite hard to do. If a girl has a dysfunctional background she will probably end up dysfunctional too. However, girls get cut a lot of slack and get a lot of support, particularly if they are hot. This means they can get by in life without their dysfunctionality necessarily showing.
So coming from a poor background is not a problem but coming from a background where the right solutions were not found to problems is. If her family were poor and hard working its fine but how do you tell the difference between this and too lazy to improve yourself, particularly in an age when the state often gives a lot of help to poorer families.
A good example would be my first wife (only legal wife, one lesson was enough). She presented herself as coming from a hard up family of small holders. They had 10 acres. They kept chickens and some sheep. The old man did some odd jobs painting and mending things. The story was that the old man had hurt his back and couldn't do a proper job any more but they got by like this. I saw no problem with this. But this was not the reality at all. In fact the old man was mad. The police had taken his guns way. The doctor had signed him off as mentally incapacitated and the family lived on extensive state benefits, supplemented by a bit of small holding and some illegal work on the side. Furthermore most of the extended family had gone to prison at some point. My wife turned out to be an enthusiastic shop lifter, who had the expectation that a man should always be around on hand because her father had always been at home in her childhood.
If you want to get with girls who have had tranquil lives, its not a bad plan. Remember though that just because they have had no hard tests in life, does not mean they are good. They are just innocent. Until they are squeezed by life we won't know which way they will go. Innocence is better than past trauma in a girl as women's minds mark easily but you are likely to see them as children a bit. Some of their ideas will be very simplistic -"We must worry about climate change and the poor in africa and why can't the state just give poor people the support they need" and so on. These are just nice ideas held by nice innocent women. If you have seen harder things in life you may think they are a bit shallow.
qzone 1h ago
Your ex wife sounds a lot like a girl I dated for a few years. Great girl, but her mental illness and fleas from her upbringing made it impossible to be with her.
This is such a great point. I suppose it's up to temperament and nature to determine how they react and grow from adversity, though it is to some extent a learned response as you mentioned earlier in your post. I guess a girl with a rough past truly must be "proceed with caution", though no past traumas or adversity is probably better. Women are going to be led anyways, they don't necessarily need resilience. I think that's what you're getting at when you mention I'm likely to see them as children. They really don't suffer as much as we do, so how would they have the opportunity to grow. By extension, it's my belief and personal experience that the top echelon of men have all endured significant adversity.
Kloi 12h ago
I've been on the flip side of these relationships, hanging out with the girls most of them cheat with Chad and go home to Billy.
Women more so than men, will stay in an unhappy relationship while sleeping around/putting in leg work to secure better options.
No-Stress-Cat 1 4h ago
For an LTR I'd pick a conservative girl with a big family. No tats, no piercings, no baggage. Where the men are men and do men stuff and the women know how to cook and clean and take care of a man.
But who the fuck am I kidding...unicorns don't exist.