Hi everyone
I met a girl we will call her "kenyan girl" for the first time. We got a drink in a pub with her kissed her a load then walked her back to her home I talked my way inside and was kissing her hot and heavy. We were in the kitchen I tried to escalate then her housemates walked in the kitchen. Kenyan girl kept saying I better catch a train home which I did eventually without fucking her.
It seems that was a considerable lack of privacy due to it being a houseshare. I did try to escalate a number of times got as far as starting to take off her bra but she refused.
My first question is would you have tried harder to escalate in those circumstances or consider it best to try again another day instead? She did tell me to leave a number of times in a "soft" way by saying I should get the train home but that could have been a shit test I guess.
My second question is I tried to arrange another "date" and she said "haha.. like you didnt like it (inside joke) and I could be free maybe wednesday though I could't be sure now" so I guess my best strategy is to see other women (I have a few lined up) and go silent for now on this Kenyan and see how it pans out?
Attempt to answer own questions:-
Question 1
I guess I could have tried to take her out of the kitchen into her bedroom but she had already resisted multiple escalation attempts from me and repeatedly said that I should figure out how to get home so I put it down as not great logistics / timing. If I had pushed her too hard it may have backfired but I suppose you will say I should have tried to escalate further regardless as she wouldnt let a guy in her house that she wasnt interested in. Maybe I should have escalated until she outright said no and insisted I leave?
Question 2
I'm not impressed with her "maybe" answer regarding meeting again but I can go silent now and see what happens (text messaging will be logistics only no conversations)
Of course I will contine to message and meet other women in the meantime I already have multiple lined up almost too many in fact I need a calendar to keep track.
P.S for clarity I should say that I have never previously mentioned this girl on here.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 17h ago
First situation: it's hard to tell for sure based on just text, but my inclination is that she wasn't that interested. Women will move mountains to fuck the men they want to fuck.
Sure, it may have just been LMR. you may have been able to push past it (much has been written on this topic), but I always had a more enjoyable time with women who wanted me just as much as I wanted them.
Second situation: a good rule of thumb that served me was that anything other than a "hell yes" is a "no".
Note that this is a rule of thumb, and not a commandment etched into stone.
Musicgoon78 3 4h ago
I'm going to slightly disagree with you here not because what you said isn't true, but because if the logistics of the situation. If it is all girl roommates she has a lot to lose socially. Girls can be malicious in these cases.
A guy brings a chick back to his room, something happens and his guy roommates are giving him high fives.
I'm betting in this case it was more saving face than an attraction issue.
Farang131 17h ago
Thats a fair comment. At the start of the date she said "I was making her uncomfortable" when I tried to kiss her. I got though that and we ended up kissing and touching loads and she said she wanted to come to my place another day so I thought she was interested but as we know what women say can be very different to what they want.
I thought because we kissed and she even stripped for me a little bit it meant she was interested but that may not be the case.
Yes I guess I should maybe have tried to move it to another room. I was trying to kiss her and escalate enough for there to be no time for last minute rejection but like you say I dont want to "pressure her" into it too much for my enjoyment and well as ethical and legal considerations. There is LMR but there is also excessive pressure etc to consider.
She did say she had only ever been with 1 other guy so that may contribute to LMR however it may well be total B.S and I'm sure most men here would call B.S on it.
Thats a good way to look at it yes.
It's definately a "hell no" now because she just sent me this:- "Hey..you seem like a cool person but I don't think I'll pursue this anymore...I have been thinking about the date and there are just some things that don't sit right with me now I wish you well" - I think translated this means I've got tons of other men lined up on the app and you arent in the top percent.
Obviously I will leave her on read I will not answer that as there is nothing for me to reply to it.
I appreciate your answer its good to think that she simply wasnt into me rather than I made some kind of tactical mistake that makes me feel much better about it.
I do have a load of other women lined up its just easy for me to get oneitis regardless.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 16h ago
Why would you try to escalate in an area you can't fuck in. Major rookie mistake. That only ever hurts you tremendously
As @Typo-MAGAshiv said if she wanted to fuck you she would have or brought you into her room. You should take women to your place. They generally put out far more easily on your territory than theirs (even when YOU have housemates).
I have met very few women who are okay with fucking around their housemates. They always get upset about it but those same women have almost zero qualms fucking me at mine. Same women, not different women.
I have had women only put out on a second date/meet. A lot of girls just have "that rule". Often times the second they came over the second time they were trying to fuck. Meaning they wanted to the first time but for whatever reason they want to see that you maybe won't ghost them etc. maybe they just need the story to their friends and family that they didn't just fuck a guy the first time
Not all girl game is just fucking a guy they want to fuck. A lot of girl game is managing their expectations and making sure they won't be pumped and dumped. You guys overthink the fuck out of a lot of girl game or don't seem to treat women like they even have girl game
Yes, women who are extremely high interest will fuck you to make sure they don't miss out or get rejected, this often requires other factors to line up in your favor (no I'm not going to describe them I don't want people mentally masturbating over endless factors)
If you enjoyed being around her make a second meet on your territory. If you didn't enjoy her time don't bother. If you're not planning on marrying a chick don't obsess over if she fucked you same night or second night and definitely stop making plans on women's turf unless they live alone
Farang131 15h ago
Thank you to you and everyone else for the replies.
Fair point my place is temporaily off limits due to building works going on. I did invite her over to my town but she was a bit reluctant and given my building works I decided I would meet her in her town instead but I agree I should improve this situation.
In my defence I didnt know she had housemates until we met I thought she might live alone.
Anyway there wont be a next time as she sent this:-
Hey..you seem like a cool person but I don't think I'll pursue this anymore...I have been thinking about the date and there are just some things that don't sit right with me now I wish you well" - I think translated this means I've got tons of other men lined up on the app and you arent in the top percent.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 15h ago
You're welcome. Thanks for following posting requirements
No I think she thought you were pushy. Like I said trying to fuck you when you cannot fuck or she doesn't want to only ever fucks you over
Women will not blame you for trying to fuck but they will blame you for not taking no or not yet for answer
It is incredibly easy to fuck women who are already making out with you if you remove all the barriers there are to them not fucking you
Hence why you shouldn't even bother trying to fuck them unless you have virtually no actual barriers to them fucking you (a messy place is not a barrier to them fucking you unless it's actually disgusting)
Farang131 15h ago
She actually told me her housemates would tease her so I said "oh cool they can do it before I leave and I'll join in"
Vermillion-Rx Admin 15h ago
Right so you were never going to be able to hit it at her place. You should have waited till you could hit it.
You can ask them if they live alone before you go over. I always ask them if they "live with anyone"
This sounds cringey and overcomplicated
"They're just jealous" would have been perfect. If she still didn't bite you should have had her over at yours. As long as the construction crew isn't at your place and your room or wherever you fuck isn't a construction mess then they are generally still fine with it if they like you. I think you bungled it. She was fine with going to yours
Farang131 15h ago
Yes I did consider saying they're just jealous. This was late and night it was too late to bring her back to mine. I dont think she would have been willing to go anywhere with me that night.
I will be honest my place is a disaster zone right now completely unsuitable to take her to it would have to be a hotel instead. Obviously I will fix the issues at my place but for now its 1OOO% a no go.
I guess trying to go to a hotel is hard because it sets an expectation. Going to my place is much more casual with plausable deniability.
Farang131 15h ago
Fair enough last time I was torn to shreds for not trying to escalate and waiting so I wanted to make sure I tried to this time but I didnt appreciate it would be much harder to do at her place and that she had housemates.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 15h ago
So go with a hotel if you must and just say your house is otherwise great but that there is construction
As long as you give an actual reason and they don't just think it's because you live with your parents or an embarrassing dump then they'll accept temporary restrictions
They care about the experience, not s momentary constraint
Most of these women are not looking for their husband on a dating app
Farang131 11h ago
I'll be honest due to depression and also due to storing tons of stock in my small studio apartment hapazardly it is a real dump but I am going to fix that I've started working on it tonight.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 10h ago
They don't care if it's a studio, they care if it looks okay.
Farang131 1h ago
Fair enough mate the garden and outside looks ok inside is overrun with stock and rubbish but im going to fix that
Farang131 15h ago
I dont think that particular girl would have gone with me anywhere but I take your point.
It's a studio apartment and honestly It is an embarrasing dump at the moment but only because its temporarily messy.
Am I right in thinking its harder to get them to a hotel than to my own place? It seems a lot less smooth to say lets go to a hotel than lets get a drink at mine.
She claimed she was looked for a husband of course like they all do but yes I agree probably not in reality.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 15h ago
It's awkward going to a hotel but her place wasn't going to work and yours was not viable. Beggers can't be choosers
I think you had a shot with her based on her makeout behavior. You seem to not think you have a chance with viable women.
She wasn't looking for a husband. They say they do but nearly every guy they meet on an app will at best end up being a placeholder boyfriend while they look for someone they actually want long term
App girls are sluts
Farang131 11h ago
The makeout behaviour was intense yes but I'm not sure how comfortable she was with me in general. I dont think she would have agreed if I had said lets go to a hotel but who knows.
Its hard to explain but it seemed like she was "just going along with things" rather than being into me a lot but maybe I'm only saying that in heinsight.
Would you tell her that you're taking her to a hotel or just say come on lets go and walk to one without saying anything.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 10h ago
Learn from your mistakes so you can actually see what works
Farang131 1h ago
Ok fair enough mate.
Farang131 11h ago
Why wouldnt they get the highest quality man possible from an app and make him a LTR? Would that not be an effective method for them?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 10h ago
Did you read what you just typed
Highest quality man, app
Bold of you to assume women can just get LTRs from any quality man they want
Farang131 1h ago
So you're saying high quality men arent on the app? Fair enough.
My thinking was seeing as they have access to 1OOOS of men on the app they might be able to sift though and find a quality one.
First-light 2 8h ago
Last time I heard, it was still a bad thing to be a slut in Kenya (unlike in the west where it is cool and emancipated). That means that even the sluts don't want to be seen slutting. There are some massive Kenyan sluts but they are relatively discrete (they love being taken to hotels, particularly in other towns). Other girls just need a bit more time. Even then they will not want to be seen with a man by anyone who knows their family or close friends unless that man is a suitor not just a boyfriend. A man is usually only introduced to parents when he has already agreed to marry her. This introduction can be quite formal and involve the discussion of bride price.
So if she is a slut take her elsewhere. If she is an ordinary girl give her more time.
Bear in mind that, since slutting is not cool, even sluts do not want the men they slut with to know they are sluts. A Kenyan girl should not be seen to be too keen to start. Kenyan men chase hard and spend liberally. If she gives you nothing to chase she is too easy by Kenyan standards. "No" usually means "later if you have proved you are keen".
Farang131 56m ago
Thanks for your reply I got a clear a no message from her when trying to meet her again she said
"Hey..you seem like a cool person but I don't think I'll pursue this anymore...I have been thinking about the date and there are just some things that don't sit right with me now. I wish you well" so there is no point in persuing it after a message like that right?
It would be pointless to persure her at this point right? Or would you call it giving up if I didnt answer her?
Musicgoon78 3 4h ago
Escalating in front of a roommate is just bad logistics. She doesn't want to come off like a ho in front of a roommate. Trying to escalate harder is a really bad move. That's how you get on a predator list.
This is called giving up. It's one of the dumbest ideas you could have. Find your courage and ask her again. And yes, do keep your options open.
As far as what happened, who knows. It's a waste of time to play guessing games,. Don't close the door on this and don't cut off other opportunities either.
Farang131 1h ago
I dont think I explained myself well I escalated then when she resisted I cooled off and started escalating again. I try to be very aware of boundaries, consent etc.
I did ask her to meet again and she said no so it would be weak and pointless to chase at this point right?
This is the last few messages between us
[30/04, 15:48] Me - So how much did they tease you ?
[30/04, 16:51] Her: Oooh, so much I am wallowing in humiliation now????
[30/04, 18:23] Me Mission accomplished.
What days are you free next week?
[30/04, 18:30] Her: Depends why you're asking siree
[30/04, 18:47] Me: For us to meet of course...as long as you promise to go easy on the strangling and domination (inside joke)
[30/04, 18:54] Her: Haha..like you didn't like it???? and I could be free maybe wednesday though I couldn't be sure now
[30/04, 21:51] Her:: Hey..you seem like a cool person but I don't think I'll pursue this anymore...I have been thinking about the date and there are just some things that don't sit right with me now
[30/04, 21:51] Her: I wish you well
It would be pointless to persure her at this point right? Or would you call it giving up if I didnt answer her?