I opened a discussion about setting up date plans with a new friend group. The guys: If she says she has plans and doesn't suggest another date = out. The girls: They do this on purpose to see if the guys will chase, plot twist if he doesn't chase a bit he's out. Said they never provide alternatives as they got options/plans enough, and if they think the dude is hot they don't want to seem easy.
I know the girls opinion goes against TRP advice and we shouldn't ask a fish how to catch a fish but it seems in 2026 there is a near total stalemate going on in dating. Everyone holds their cards so close and is playing powergames. The women are getting tons of bad "girlgame" advice from instagram/tiktok which makes it even worse.
For example I met a women at a party, we clicked really well, I made out with her, I thought she was cute beyond a hookup and asked her out and get hit with the classic I'd love to but have plans that day / those days without proposing alternatives. This has happened more then a few times already. 'Baking' is another one both sides do, waiting x amount of days on purpose and the whole thing become a fight to see who cares less.
The girls openly said in real interactions the men (only the men they want of course) have all the power but they try to grab it back during the texting/planning phases of next dates... The further you get on the first interaction the harder they try to grab back the control and play games/tests. Even when they are thinking about the men they want...
Example: Friend A met hot dude at party, she thinks he's above her so she has to play 'girlgame' to even it out. She denies him the date a few times then blames him for being low effort so it wouldn't have worked out anyway, it's of course never her fault... The dude couldn't win here anyway, if he kept insisting he's a simp, if he cuts his losses he keeps his dignity but doesn't get the girl.
It seems a beta breaker could be useful in 2026, don't do what everyone else does... Surely the great minds here must be able to come up with some adjustments besides keep doing the same and add more quantity?
mattyanon Admin 11h ago
Yeah, women SAY this.
Everything women say is designed to make them look good.
This is absolutely not true.
It's all designed to make her look good / attractive / powerful.
Right.
She says "Sorry, busy on Wednesday". You say "Gotcha, no problem". That's it. You don't chase because that lowers your value relative to hers. If she wants you to chase, 99% of the time it's because she's not interested but wants to be chased for its own sake. ie nothing for you.
Sure. The trick is to be indifferent when she has plans. Reply, be polite, happy even, but thoroughly indifferent to her having other plans.
Yes, but my experience is that women are not good at this.
You should have so many options that a woman not replying for three days is a blessing.
You partially fix this by replying at random intervals... sometimes in minutes, sometimes not answering her direct question for 36 hours.
The girls SAID.
And there's your problem.
And she's only talking about her behaviour with men they like. They aren't talking about the leading on of hundreds of men who are only there to buoy up her ego.
Look, all this happens..... but if you're hot, and have options, it's not that hard to navigate around all this shit.
What they are saying just isn't true about how women actually are.
In my experience when a woman is interested she'll make everything reallllllllllllllll fucking easy. She might lay out a tiny shit test... be slightly difficult about something..... minor inconveniences that are easily batted aside.
Right.
So the guy, if he even wanted her, needs to show enough comfort to her that she is ready to invest rather than being scared.
The unstated parts here are that guys do need to be good at seduction....... but what these girls are saying is 99% horseshit.
Don't ask a fish how to catch fish.
Sure.
No hacks needed
GeorgeIII 1 4d ago
God I fucking hate the scenario you are describing OP.
Girl says no to date, then doesn’t get a date. Surprised Pikachu face. It’s like they are trying to be as retarded as possible but not so retarded they lose the guy.
That being said, I don’t see the never asking again rule as ironclad. As an example, I’d say that you can ask the girl you made out with again after a few days, because you already established some kind of progress with her. I wouldn’t do that for an OLD girl who I never met.
At some point all people, and women especially, want to feel desired. If you act too cold/stoic without any warmth at all they won’t feel that from you.
But god, when I read stuff like what you wrote, I lose an IQ point. Not because of you OP, just the scenario.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4d ago
Cc: @Musicgoon78
My biggest pet peave is "TRP says" because it's always some vague amorphous reference to some vague almighty TRP figure who says all this definitive stuff but no one can ever track down this vague omnipotent source of absolute sage wisdom
There is nothing more confusing to beginners than "TRP says" which is in all likely randoms on oprhaned comments on some oprhaned post everyone has forgotten about or some podcast bro
Musicgoon78 3 4d ago
I think that the new guys think in absolutes. Something doesn't happen like a textbook case so you slam the door shut and throw in the towel. I can say that as adults, we get busy and we sometimes don't think of following up.
So instead of patience, we get guys here that write out a novel instead of simply moving on to the next and keeping the door open.
This isn't an argument. I'm just pointing out if you're not moving forward, overthinking isn't going to get you anywhere.
Kloi 4d ago
It's because they do not want to think for themselves. Most people are looking for a step by step guide to hold their hand through the processes. It's not just with women they want hard defined rules to follow. So when things don't work out they can shift blame. Well I did everything exactly as it says, why didn't I get results?
Overkill_Engine Endorsed Contributor 3d ago
12-step Pussy Password Plan. Sigh.
Musicgoon78 3 4d ago
Bloody fucking hell! This mental masturbation is absolutely unreal!
Here's what I do: Exactly what I want to do, when I want to do it.
I don't fucking think about it too much. I don't read inbetween the lines. I don't follow some stupid fucking alpha rules. I'm barely thinking at all, just having fun.
I see a hot girl. I don't think of a line. I just go and talk . I am overtly sexual. I move fast, I don't play games. I don't plan a fucking thing. Confidence and decisiveness are all you need.
Do I get shot down? On a rare occasion.
Do I get laid? Quite a bit.
The more I'm here the more tired of this stupid alpha and beta shit. It time to start living outside of the bubble of fantasy land.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4d ago
Why are some of you guys so autistically absolute?
You do realize if you suggest plans on a day and they say they are busy and you ask about another day they often say yes right?
You also realize if you ask when they are free instead of smacking a random day of the week on them you get more availability to choose from right?
If you ask about a date in general (no day or time) and she makes an excuse in general she is not interested
If you ask a day and she says she's busy and offers a different day she's probably quite interested
You realize these are all valid scenarios right? Why are you guys being so obtuse about making basic logistics. Not every girl has good girl game. Not every girl is planning for the guy to chase. Some women are socially retarded.
Why are you guys making this so complicated. Ask about logistics and if she is in general not interested then bail
Or if she agrees to a date and then cancels and doesn't reschedule then bail. I honestly think you're probably conflating and misremembering the cancellation rule not the date making rule. If she flakes and doesn't reschedule you bail. You're confusing basics. Another reason you guys shouldn't be overthinking to this degree.
No-Stress-Cat 1 4d ago
Somebody didn't read the sidebar...
Your time is precious. Stop wasting it on "adjusting" to anything. Just say what you want:
Me: Want to go out?
Her: I can't. I have plans that night.
Me: Okay then. *walks off*
She can save the excuses. I'm not interested in playing games.
Kloi 3d ago
My recommendation is fuck around and find out. What is the worst that is going to happen with the girl from the party, she says no again? Owell, at least you could call it shot with out letting your male hamster spin.
I don't intentionally let messages bake. I respond when life allows it. Sometime I can shoot messages off fairly rapidly. Sometime I don't touch my phone for 8+ hours. That's life. Now I'm never doing a shit ton of back and forth with a woman I haven't fucked but I'd rather get to know someone in person. I'm not in Middle School anymore.
Majority of the time when I'm getting a number I am either texting/calling that person face to face (or vice versa) to confirm/swap contacts because that's what I did for years for work.
End of the day you have to develop a style of game that works for you based on the principles. You obviously aware not to blow them up. Gauge what you can get away with.
Bozza 2 3d ago
Dating rules for beginners exist because inexperience leads to over-investment, which reads as neediness and kills attraction. The rules are a crutch, not the destination.
The real variable is outcome independence. Someone with genuine options doesn't cling to any single one, and that indifference is itself attractive. You can break every "rule" and still succeed if you genuinely don't care about the result.
When someone senses you're heavily attached to the outcome, they gain leverage. When you're not, they don't. The example of the woman running hot-and-cold on a guy works precisely because she read his scarcity correctly - he had value (SMV), but not options (scarcity), so she knew he'd chase.
The goal isn't to master the tactics. It's to build a life with enough options that no single outcome matters much. At that point, the tactics take care of themselves.
As @Vermillion-Rx and @Koli responses elude to
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3d ago
Good point cc: @kloi
The problem is that newbs and guys talking to one chick at a time and barely shooting their shot on anyone are reading high volume dating strategies and then autistically mentally masturbating about it
These guys don't seem to understand this advice is intended for the guy approaching and chatting dozens of women, in which case the ones who don't offer much help with logistics are just not worth it in high volume amounts of approaches and contacts compared to women who do make it easy
If a guy were to approach 100 women and 20 give him ease of plans and availability when he asks them or shoots his shot, and 10 give acceptance of date but don't clarify when they can actually meet or anything voluntarily helpful, those other 20 women are probably going to be way easier to get desires outcomes from and probably objectively higher interest women. The other 70 women are irrelevant anyway because they said no or didn't respond.
These noobs cannot seem to understand the basic concept of volume strategy and think they have to framemmog the one chick they are talking to so she thinks he's an alpha Chad
I don't know why so many men who find game and red pill are unable to smell an ounce of nuance
[deleted]
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3d ago
No offense to OP. But the one thing all "TRP says" guys have in common is very little effort or ability to detect nuance or understand context
There is just about nothing in TRP that is black and white. Nothing. Every situation you encounter is a multi-faceted situation drawing on multiple contextual characterstics working in tandem.
Good social awareness makes up 85-90% of these factors before you even start needing to add any red pill or game value to scenarios. Almost every "but TRP says" dilemma could be easily solved by just understanding the social first and the red pill/game after.
Some of you guys are trying to shoehorn in 85-90% game and red pill and then dismiss everything else as 10-15% social and obsessing yourselves into mental pretzels for no reason.
@waybackmachine
Overkill_Engine Endorsed Contributor 3d ago
Protip:
If chick A does not bite, move on to chick B. If chick B does not bite, move on to chick C, If chick C does not bite....can you guess the pattern by this point?
ACCURACY BY VOLUME, YOU WANNABE MOTHERFUCKERS!
Stop mentally jerking off about lining up the perfect shot and never missing like you are some sort of sexual version of Carlos Hathcock. 80/20 rule applies in reverse here, 20% of your effort gets about 80% of the results, trying to optimize for a perfect 100% is a goddamn waste of time and energy.
Stop overthinking and overoptimizing. Women that are interested and immediately available will gladly cover any gaps so long as you are their best option. Sometimes circumstances unknown to you fuck that up, oh well, don't sweat it and just move on instead of getting all mentally constipated about it like you just had a two week black tar heroin binge. If one of them boomerangs back around later, great, if not, oh well, her loss you already got replacements lined up, right?
RIGHT?!
Edit: I need to add that I understand part of this is due to seeing "failure" as undesirable. Well, here's a mental adjustment to make; what is worse than failure is over-investing regardless of success or failure. If anything, "failure" is just getting a time and effort waster kicked out of the queue as fast as possible. You actually want some level of "failure" to prevent getting entangled with those as they will always consume more time and energy than they are worth even if you do manage to eventually dip your wick in them.
Think of it raising the prices of drinks at a restaurant just enough to keep out the riff-raff that would just sit around nursing a cheap coffee for hours instead of ordering any food, and in doing so blocking the customers that are your best profits/time from getting seated.
Lone_Ranger 3 3d ago
The answer is..........its' complex.
guys are going to have to be realistic about how desireable they actually are. Game that works for a top level dude will not work for a mid level guy. That is the truth that a lot of guys simply do not understand.
It is also the reason why so many dummies are wasting their time trying to learn game from PUA. They think that game is some ruleset that you learn, some lines that you learn, and that you just lay that on and walk away with the prize.
Life is not like that.
When you meet a girl, you have to be acutely aware of your position on the scale, and her position on the scale, and adgust accordingly. There is some give it the system, but a mid guy is not going to have much luck approaching a hot girl and just saying something like
'I'm not into games - you can drop everything and come back to mine right now, and get on your knees."
This would work just fine if you were actually fucking desireable.
ogrilla99 3d ago
Time for an analogy. When people are first taught how to drive,they're taught rules to keep them safe, and they're taught that they must follow them all the time, no exceptions, no modifications.
But later, as you gain driving experience, you can start to be less strict, and use the rules more as guidelines to apply with modifications to the specific situation you face. You can speed a little. Or change lanes with a little less space. So on.
Despite "breaking" or bending the rules more, experienced drivers have less accidents than beginning drivers. How is that? The key is situational awareness. Beginning drivers don't have any, which is why the rules are presented as a absolutes to keep them safe. But as you develop that sixth sense of where all the rest of the cars on the road are, how they're behaving (is there an asshole weaving through the lanes behind you?), where in the lane your car is, how much space it takes up, what are its critical blind spots, etc. then you can start to apply the rules more accurately, bending them as needed to better fit the situation that you're now able to read correctly.
Same thing with this. And situational awareness here is the same thing. Learning to read people, to get a sense of what's in their head. Some people are shy and nervous and so fumble invites but will say yes if given a second chance. Some people are genuinely busy and if you layoff and re-approach later they'll say yes. And some people are just playing mind games and even if you somehow get them to say yes, you shouldn't because the games won't stop.
When you get good enough to read people, you'll know how to tell the difference, and calibrate your approach. But when you're a beginner, the rules are there to protect you from wasting your time and / or being labelled a creep because you won't take a genuine 'no' for an answer.
The second part of this is that all of this is to, again, keep you from wasting your time. But if you're able to stay engaged without wasting time, then you can bend the rules. What you don't want to see happen is that you waste all your time texting back and forth, never meeting up, and losing time that could have been spent on a better prospect. But if you're not wasting your energy like that, then you can afford to push things a little more.
For example, if a girl says no, I'll propose another time and place. If I get the sense she's not super interested, but maybe on the right day she might say yes, then I keep her on the back burner, and I text her once in a while to join me on things I'm already planning to do. I don't spend insane amount of times texting back and forth, or slavishly following her Facebook and Instagram. If she sends me a text, i reply with a quick but friendly or joking reply. And when I want to invite her out, I do so. If she comes, she comes. If she says no or flakes out, big deal, I was going to do the thing anyway, and it's not like I have opera tickets I now need to throw out or something. If someone seems genuinely nervous or shy, I spend a little more time on texting banter to reassure her. If she seems like to the type to play games, I don't even bother with the first invite. It's all based on reading people (understanding that sometimes even the best will get it wrong; experienced drivers still get into accidents occasionally)
The goal of those rules is to keep guys from wasting their time, getting their heart broken by developing oneitis for some chick who won't even meet up with them, and/or catching some #metoo flack for being pushy when you shouldn't be pushy. But as long as you're able to follow the spirit of that goal, then the exact specifics are up to you.