Title, i'm 13% bodyfat confirmed by an inbody scan. i know that they can be inaccurate so i've done them a few times and have averaged that 13 +-1%. I have decent lifts for my body weight (150 lbs) and i look pretty strong with a v taper. am i at the point of diminshing returns or will abs make a difference?
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MidgetSpinner 10h ago
Abs either aren't developed enough or you're not quite 13% body fat, or need to hit closer to 11-12%.
I couldn't see my abs for about 2-3 years because I had a shitty diet and I loved my gaming chair a little too much, but I could always feel that my abs were there underneath. Luckily I have a fast metabolism, got my shit together and within a month I could see my abs again clear as day.
Get cycling for a few miles every day, keep the sugar intake low, and keep the focus on variable ab exercises. Don't forget planks.
The main thing that motivated me to lose the body fat though was actually having sex again for the first time in a few years. I've never been a fat guy ever - I'm around your weight and 5'9", but I was carrying all this subcutaneous fat around my abs and love handle area. Once I started having sex again, I noticed I was sweating absolute buckets and that my midsection was raw afterwards. After literally a week of this, I realised I could see my abs again, and this motivated me to start training more and it just compounded from there.
Either way, whatever route you go, just keep going and go hard. You will see your abs again, man.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 1d ago
You're small and thin. Visible abs will help you a lot.
I'm large. They don't help me all that much (at least not that I've noticed, on the few occasions I've had them).
That's the most important thing.
Anyway, while visible abs will help you, don't let the lack of them stop you from trying.
A) gaining more experience will help you
B) unless you're at a pool or a beach, women aren't going to see your abs when you first meet anyway
Additionally, and I've said this many times across many forums over many years, in my particular case I've found that the sacrifices and discipline it took for me to have visible abs weren't worth it. I'm quite fond of saying "I'd rather drink a 6-pack than have a 6-pack". Being able to cut loose and have fun is more attractive to women than excess vanity.
Your mileage may vary, and again, since you're small, they're more likely to help you.
Victor 14h ago
Brother, have you really not experienced a girl drooling over your six pack? I've had girls aggressively hump me till completion
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 12h ago
Nope!
I've only managed to have visible abs a handful of times in my life.
A) The first couple of times were during wrestling season in high school, and I was in phenomenal shape. I was also an oblivious idiot who missed signs of girls being into me. When I started learning PUA a few years later, of course I thought back over high school and the first 3 years of college and kicked myself over all the interest and opportunities I had missed.
B) the other occasions were while I was already married and faithful. My wife always drooled more over my chest muscles, upper back muscles, shoulders, thighs, and buttocks. Abs didn't seem to do shit to her. No other women got to see them, at least not that I recall at the moment.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1d ago
13% is not low enough
Abs too small as well
Victor 14h ago
16% is enough
It depends on how big the abs are. I'm bloated these days but still have a six pack. Come on guys really?
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 12h ago
Anything below 20, they should be showing. Maybe not a ripped 6-pack, but at least the outline and the line down the middle.
Bozza 2 1d ago
Being decent bodyfat range will never go against you.
But at 150lbs, if it makes you look weak and skinny then may not be that great.
I'd hold there and do a lean bulk
Musicgoon78 3 1d ago
Abs will not get you women. Social skills and frame will
Victor 14h ago
Frame is the foundation. Physique is force multiplier. Social skills get you in the door, but visible discipline makes it easier. Best case is all three.
Musicgoon78 3 4h ago
I agree. The sense of accomplishment will definitely help your confidence. It shouldn't be a crutch though.
Visible discipline is a very attractive quality that girls love. I'm glad you said this! It's not a metric like bodyfat percentage, but a mindframe.
MidgetSpinner 10h ago
Abs definitely help though.
Musicgoon78 3 4h ago
I mean yeah. If it makes a guy feel accomplished and actually motivates him to approach. The problem isn't muscles it's with inner strength.
Do women care about body fat %? Not at all and they likely won't see your abs unless you're actually getting naked with her. At that point, your social skills and game have already got you where you want to go.
Even if it's a fat cope, if it helps a guy with cowardice I'm all for it.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1d ago
Yup. Getting women any other way than social skills is how you end up with autistic alphas
GeorgeIII 1d ago
I recall a thread a while back from the OP about using his motorcycle to game women, but not knowing how to escalate.
Abs are no substitute for game. Even if you go to a beach party with a great 6-pack, the same issue of not knowing how to escalate will come up.
Sure the bike/abs can get you in the door, with the right situation. But if you can’t escalate, none of it matters, plain and simple. Same with body fat %, or being huge, or whatever. Women are very rarely going to bed themselves for you.
joyboy 1d ago
Yeah your right lol. I had a couple girls ask me for a ride and my autistic ass fucked it up with them too. I even ended up taking one on a ride and didn’t even kiss her or get her number or escalate in anyway even though she was feeling up my chest and giving iois and shit. Idk how to improve my social skills though tbh
Vermillion-Rx Admin 19h ago
Make friends
If you're not making male friends better than you in every way shape and form you're doing it wrong
This answer won't change. If you're not socially observing and integrating what works through being around it yourself and getting real time feedback you are not going to better your social skills
If you missed the window of your life where exposure to that would have been normal and expected you have to go find it
I find no guy that gets this advice ever applies it. It's really sad to see men repeatedly ignore the only advice that works on social skills and go chase pussy on an endless loop without learning the basics
joyboy 12h ago
Guys also tend to not want to be friends with guys worse off than them since it lowers their status, so it’s hard to do. But I’ll keep trying.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 12h ago
I've not seen that to be the case except among club phoneys.
Most guys, if you have common interests and common activities, won't care about "status" bullshit as long as you don't annoy them or something.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 9h ago
This makes no sense
joyboy 6h ago
how do i get past just being acquantainces with guys? do i just keep inviting them to go out until its mutual or what? its hard to make friends after school/college i feel like. like yeah ill meet some guys on a night out and get their contact but then ill msg them later and theyll have no idea who i am
Vermillion-Rx Admin 6h ago
If you have like no xp don't be the guy inviting dudes. It's likely to be uncalibrated and fail
-Go places
-have good energy
-Dont try to be the loudest voice in the room
-generally be pleasant/not awkward
-extroverted dudes will make of conversation with you
-be chill
-just be half okay at chatting with them
-have shared interests/don't be gay
-Get invited to groups
-Observe how men succeed in groups
It's really not complicated. Just don't tank your interaction or look desperate
If you have this little impact on men who aren't putting up any resistance to you you really need to have more personality
I am extremely curious what you're like in person. You have a lot to work on man
This just absolutely screams of having almost no fundamentals down at all
Musicgoon78 3 4h ago
Bro, you need to stop focusing on bodyfat and get yourself some friends. If you can't do this basic social interaction you're cooked. No one wants to live a lonely life.
First-light 2 21h ago
Can you comfortably hold the weight needed to see abs long term?
If you can, then its OK but if you are going to be miserable and yo yo dieting, then it will affect your joy in life and also your strength and injury resistance. Do you have further goals in strength? You can't do much anabolic if you are putting yourself into a catabolic state.
Is your height at least twice your waist measurement? If so then whatever you do about diet is optional. If not, then possibly you have a not so good relationship with carbs and insulin and changing your diet long term will benefit your health anyway.
joyboy 12h ago
Yeah my height is 67” and my waist is 30. I’m most comfortable maintaining where I’m at weight wise, since I can eat whatever I want and still look fit.
My goals are mostly to be strong and athletic, but I wanted to know if abs would have a strong enough impact on attracting girls to justify making that a goal as well.
First-light 2 12h ago
I was just considering the cost of the impression it will make on girls.
How often does a girl see you topless before she has decided if she likes you?
I think that only one woman I ever banged saw me topless before I banged her and that was only because I was her swimming coach. Others have different life styles and may get topless more often.
joyboy 10h ago
I mean if your using dating apps then using a pic with abs vs without could be a more substantial difference. It's true that most women you meet irl won't see you topless unless your at a beach/pool or something.
First-light 2 9h ago
Yeah fair point.
So strictly, you probably only need pictures of you taken on one occasion, when you have done a cut. You can always tell them that it was an experimental look once you have banged them.
If you have an itch to try it why not scratch it once and see? If you keep at a low body fat for a long time, it will have a catabolic effect on your body. Its not really good for a strong guy (look at how many strong men and powerlifters have visible abs?). But as a short term thing why not?
joyboy 6h ago
Honestly if it's like that i might as well just use edited pics using AI. They look super realistic now, its impossible to tell. Thanks for the advice
Musicgoon78 3 4h ago
Fucking ghey ass editing idea! Don't do this. A woman will meet you IRL and see that you're inecure and completely lying about this. This move is some of the weakest and most desperate shit I've read in a few months. We need to lable you the King of Desperation for the month.
Don't start making up shit. All it's going to do is dig you into a hole. It's also easy to confuse yourself. If you're lying, you're not learning.
The only way to get better is to face your insecurities and get more experience so you get an actual relationship instead of a shallow chick that wants to go out with you until she finds out that you've lied.
Save yourself some time and energy with this absolutely retarded idea.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 52m ago
I see shit like this and want to stop helping men
He'll do anything but fix his social foundation
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 48m ago
Strongly second
@joyboy you're probably too young to remember how bald dudes wearing toupees used to get roasted.
They weren't getting roasted due to being bald; they were getting roasted for their insecurity and deceit.
And again, I've been laid plenty of times with no abs.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 50m ago
I don't know how you can be here for like 2 years and do everything but what you need to
Girls will know they got catfished, if you can even close at all (which is doubtful)
Look man. This is a waste of time, I'm done helping you, I don't know why anyone is at this point, you plain don't care about genuine growth
You just want cheap pussy passwords
joyboy 1m ago
Dude I swear I want to get better. I implemented the advice you guys gave me to go out and try talking to girls and I did. I got approached and approached as well and like I said in another comment I had a girl feeling me up during the ride which made me feel good. I don’t know if i said it here but I had a couple coworkers gushing over how hot I was and how they wanted me to give them a ride as well.
Overall I feel like I made a bit of progress, admittedly at a slow pace.
SeasonedRP 2 17h ago
Lift heavy, get bigger, and look like you could hurt someone. That's what women like, not pretty boys. Eat right and abs will come around.