I’m an18 yo 5'6" Indian guy, and I’d say my looks are pretty average or even below average overall. I came across blackpill stuff when I was around 16, and ever since, it’s kind of messed with my head. It’s been almost two years now, and in that time, I’ve felt pretty miserable. At first, I just rotted. Spent most of my time alone in my room, watching YouTube videos and reading posts on those kinds of forums. It became this toxic cycle I couldn’t pull myself out of. And to be clear. I don’t blame women or anyone else for how attraction works I get it. If I were in their position, I might feel the same. But understanding that didn’t make it any easier to deal with how I felt about myself. For a while, I thought the only way forward was to focus on career and stability , basically becoming the kind of person who’s useful, even if not particularly desirable. I figured maybe that’s how I’d eventually find someone who’s okay with and genuinely likes me. Lately, I’ve been trying to take better care of myself so I can actually feel decent in my own skin. I’m primarily aiming to to improve a little where I can and hopefully build some genuine connection i guess? I don’t know if any of this will work. I just feel like I’m lying to myself sometimes. could anyone offer any some advice from their pov? any sort of advice will be greatly appreciated.
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Musicgoon78 3 1d ago
Well bro, you did yourself a huge disservice by going down the black pill rabbit hole. That place is filled with liars and miserable losers. It's not a good place to get any information. Those are lazy idiots that want to bring you down. Being black pilled is a choice. It's an active choice to be a loser.
First off, you're super young. You're not even close to your peak smv until about 30. That's 12 years to get your shit together. That's plenty of time and you've lost nothing yet. You're in a good position.
For some reason you Indian guys use that fact as a pejorative. Being Indian is not a bad thing. Two of my best friends are from india. They do just fine with women. You can't change your height or nationality, but you can dress nicely, be well groomed and have a great personality. Personality and frame will get you further than anything else you'll ever obtain. Everything you have can be crafted into something extremely appealing for women.
Let's start off by addressing your identity: From this day forward, you aren't going to think of yourself as a victim or even feel sorry for yourself. You're just going to read the sidebar, socialize with everyone and continue moving forward. Can you commit to promising yourself and us that you will get rid of your victim mindset?
I'm asking this because it's the biggest obstacle you'll ever have to overcome with having a successful life. This is the type of talk countless guys come on here and somewhere all the time. Most of them have an extreme live affair with their own misery. They will sacrifice, friendships, happiness, love, sex ,mental health and success all for their one true love; victimhood. It holds no value but the incels will fight to remain broken and pathetic. So you need to let us know if this is a sacrifice that your willing to commit to? This is the thing most guys cannot live without.
You've got a lot of time and this is absolutely doable if you want to simply stick to it and try.
I've helped a ton of guys in your situation and so have the other veterans if these forums. All we ask in return is your effort. It's actually a great deal.
Now I need to also issue a warning. There are also a lot of idiots that just started that will give you bad advice or try to dissuade you. You have to ask yourself if the message they send you seems hopeful or jaded. Some hits here are still in an anger phase which is normal.
Why don't you do us a favor: Write a few things about yourself that you value or like and tell us something that you do that brings you joy.
Let's get you mindset into something more positive, have you finish the sidebar and then you can develop an action plan. You're getting this started at an Ideal age. Congrats on getting away from that black pill garbage.b
Soupy595 1d ago
Hey man, I really appreciate you taking the time to write this out. It means a lot that you’re trying to help. You’re right the blackpill stuff messed me up for a while, and I don’t want to stay stuck in that mindset. I know I’m still young, and I’ve got time to improve. I’ll be honest, though some of this is hard to fully believe. I get that personality and confidence matter, but I also see how harsh the dating world can be for guys like me (short, average-looking). It’s not about playing victim; it’s just recognizing the game. That said, I don’t want to end up bitter or hopeless. If working on myself can make things even slightly better, I’ll put in the effort.Women don't owe me attraction. You’re right about one thing for sure, sitting around feeling sorry for myself won’t change anything. I’ll focus on what I can control fitness, style, career, and mindset. Maybe I won’t ever be some Chad, but I can at least become the best version of myself. As for the things I enjoy I’m into swimming , reading , and I’m grinding for UPSC (It's India’s civil service exam , kinda hard but a gateway to powerful and respected government positions.) It’s tough, but I’m trying to stay disciplined. Anyway, thanks again for the advice. I’ll keep pushing forward."
Musicgoon78 3 8h ago
You've got the right attitude so thank you for the reply. Make it a point to befriend people and keep you life enjoyable.
A man doesn't have to be tall to have social power or influence. That's about confidence and charisma. Just your "presence" can take up a huge amount of space in the room.
Keep working and trying. Feel free to reach out to us if you stumble or get stuck. Welcome to the successful side of things! We are glad you're here.
JPCantell 1d ago
Black pill dudes are pussies. Don’t listen to their whining bullshit. Those faggots should have died off years ago, but they’re still around because many males (not men), unfortunately, would rather bitch and moan instead of actually achieving some shit. It’s these weak-minded motherfuckers that are to blame for the state of our society.
Being a MAN isn’t about how you fucking look, you don’t need to be a pretty boy, stop engaging in looks max feminine crap. That’s not what will fulfill you as a man.
Personally I’m of the belief that you either choose to be weak-minded or strong-minded, and if you willingly choose to be weak-minded you deserve to be a miserable faggot and to burn in hell. Because if you’re one of these self-loathing faggots and choose NOT to change, you’re the problem and deserve everything you’re bitching about.
Being a black pill is equivalent to wishing you were a woman. Wanting everything handed to you, obsessed about looks. Just plain BITCH at your core. Fuck that shit.
The thing about being a man, is you have to EARN everything you get in life. Work to your strengths and build a life worth living. But that’s a good thing, because when you do build some shit, you can look at it with pride, knowing it was YOU, no one else, that did that shit. Women can never experience this like a man. This is why they, at their root, wish they were men themselves. Being a man gives you FRAME. Women have no frame. Men do what they want, women do what they’re told.
Understand, living life on your own terms- this is FREEDOM in its purest form. And it’s only truly possible as a man. The caveat is, you gotta make it happen. No one is gonna save you.
Continue reading old red pill posts, read the top 100 posts per year, especially under the building power flair.
Men thrive on action, not endless thinking. You won’t know what you’re capable of until you give it your all.
Soupy595 1d ago
Hey, I appreciate the blunt advice. You’re right wallowing won’t change anything, and action beats self-pity every time. The blackpill spiral messed me up for a while, but I’m done treating life like a victimhood competition. I won’t lie: some of this shit is harder when you’re starting from behind (height, looks, etc.). But you’re also right that men build their worth through effort, not whining. Right now, I’m focusing on UPSC, fitness, and stacking skills. Small steps, but it’s better than rotting. Still, I’m not gonna pretend raw aggression alone fixes everything. I’d rather be strategic , work on what I can control (status, money, frame) and accept what I can’t. And yeah, I do hope to find genuine connection someday, even if it’s not some Disney fantasy. I will also read those top 100 posts. Anyway, thanks for the kick in the ass. I'll shut up and grind
JPCantell 18h ago
This is the way.
You’re welcome.
First-light 1 1d ago
The reality is that if you do not have women in your life and have never had women in your life, you do tend to feel bleak and a bit hopeless because it is like standing on an icy cold street and there is a plate glass restaurant window in front of you. Inside are men enjoying themselves, outside watching in the cold you wish you could just be on the other side of that glass but but the door women of the restaurant just won't let you in.
18 is very young. Your mind has not yet even fully formed so do not put hope out of the mix or it could be damaging long term. I was much older than you before I got on the other side of that window I was talking about and since then I have had over half a dozen children with several women. the fact you are where you are now is not a worry so long as you have hope and learn to like yourself.
Yes becoming someone useful is a great idea. It will keep you safe and it will attract women. Becoming someone who enjoys life is also very good for your health and very good for making you attractive. Once when I was unhappy in my youth, I fell in love. I eventually confessed my love to the girl and she didn't want me. Her first words were "Oh why can't you be happy!" She didn't want me because I was miserable. She didn't want to be dragged down. Later, when my life was going better and hers a bit worse, she did want me and offered to sleep with me but I had moved on by then.
Learn what you like. It may change a bit but follow it so long as it is healthy. Learn to like yourself, learn to like and be valuable to others and the black pill ideas will slowly drift away when confronted by the reality that you have a good life and are a worthwhile person who is attractive.
Soupy595 1d ago
I appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective. You're right that 18 is young, and I'm trying to balance self-improvement with patience. The restaurant window analogy hits hard that feeling of exclusion is exactly what sent me down this rabbit hole.
I don't blame women for their preferences biology is biology. My frustration is more about the cards I've been dealt, and learning to play them well. You're absolutely correct that self-loathing is counterproductive. That girl's reaction proves what studies show happiness and confidence matter, even if they're not magic bullets.
The blackpill truths still feel inescapable, but I'm trying to channel them into discipline rather than despair. Maybe with time, as you said, proving my own worth to myself will make those ideas feel less absolute.
Your story about eventually having options gives me some hope that effort compounds over time. I'll keep working not with delusional optimism, but with the understanding that even small advantages add up. Thanks again for the balanced take.
First-light 1 22h ago
When you say black pill truths, I want to offer another analogy. When you are deep under water everything is black no matter what colour the water actually is. The water is really red but you are under so much of it and looking down at the seabed, so it looks black. You have to turn and swim up before the truths start to look different.
Women make sensible self interested choices in mates. They have a lot of options, so they get to choose in a way that is harsh if you don't offer much. (and the average guy today doesn't have that much to offer in his late teens when education seems to last well into the 20's for many middle class people). That's not really a black pill truth, its just a fact of nature.
Being Indian, there must be some consolation for you in that India is a place where there is huge economic disparity and I can't imagine an educated man like you would ever be without appeal to the hypergamy of a woman from a less educated and poor background. You will never be unable to get through the glass.
Just don't get seduced by the gloom. Its easy to give up and choose to live in a world where there is an obvious unfairness in the cards you have been dealt. That way, it explains why you are unhappy being alone. But in the end this is no better than the feminists who believe that the patriarchy is the reason why women don't succeed as well at doing men's work as men. Its a convenient narrative based on some of the cards they have been dealt in the past but its not the real answer and its not going to fix anything.
You have to swim up to the surface and it will be OK. You cross a threshold of eligibility and suddenly you are no longer invisible. Instead of being on the other side of that glass, you are being ushered in.
Make yourself a happy, popular and successful man doing things you enjoy. Even if the black pill has it all correct, you will still get more out of life that way in your dealings with men and in fact you will then suddenly find you are very visible to some women. Just consciously study how to be happy popular and successful and take small steps. Don't expect big results in the first years. You might get surprised and things happen fast but probably its a long haul this one. If you were an athlete I would not be telling you to do anything more than the right things in diet, exercise and sleep and to expect a very gradual improvement in performance. Its obvious for an athlete not to expect too much too soon but a lot of people have unrealistic expectations of other improvements in life. Like you say small advantages add up. It is like the power of cumulative interest on savings, success builds slowly but powerfully. There is a synergy in having a few things right that lead to other things going better.
Proving your own worth to yourself is a great idea but also look at yourself sometimes with the eyes of a kind father. You are worthwhile now. Almost no son is worthless, some sons just have to bring the value out in themselves. The father knows it is there and if he is frustrated it is only because the son is not following good habits and working with his strengths. There is good progress to be made in beating the weakness out of yourself, like a smith beathing impurity from iron but you are not a bar of dumb iron. You have feelings and you must not just look at your weakness or you will be always looking down. You are both the smith and the iron. Be proud of your skill and knowledge that improves you. Take time to rest a little when needed, enjoy life and count small blessings daily. It really does help.
Soupy595 21h ago
Thank you for taking the time to write this it means a lot. Your words actually made me pause and think, especially that underwater analogy. You’re right when you’re deep in it, everything looks darker than it really is. I’m trying to swim up, but some days it feels like I’m dragging weights behind me. I'm trying to adopt "accept reality, but don’t let it paralyze me".
I won’t lie, the blackpill stuff messed me up for a while. It’s not even about blaming women I get it, attraction isn’t fair, and I’d probably do the same in their shoes. But realizing that didn’t make it easier to look in the mirror. For a long time, I just shut down. Now, I’m trying to at least fix what I can like (academics , cleaning up my diet, saving up for braces). Small steps, but they help me feel less powerless. It’s hard to shake the blackpill lens sometimes, but I’m trying to use it as motivation, not an excuse.
You’re spot-on about happiness mattering. That story about the girl who told you ‘why can’t you just be happy?’ make me think hard. It’s like I’ve been so focused on what I lack that I forgot people can smell desperation a mile away. I don’t want to be that guy the bitter, invisible one. But I also don’t want to lie to myself and pretend everything will magically work out if I ‘just be confident.’
About India’s hypergamy… yeah, I know I could probably ‘settle’ later if I wanted to. But here’s the thing I’ve seen what settling does. My dad’s 5’5”, mom’s 5’3”, and I spent my teenage years hating every inch of myself. If I ever have kids, I don’t want them to feel like this. So my dream is to marry a woman who’s taller, smarter, and from a solid family not just for status, but so my kids don’t inherit my insecurities. I’d rather stay single than risk passing on that pain.
Your point about the ‘kind father’ seeing value in his son resonated. I’ll try to balance discipline with self-compassion. Maybe the blackpill isn’t wrong, but it’s not the whole story either. I’ll keep swimming upward. Thanks again for your pov.
superhitops 22h ago
The redpill is a pragmatic, objectivist and fact-based, logical evaluation of woman behavior.
But before that happen, one need to be in a logical - and not emotional - state of mind.
There are many man hurt out there. There is the rage phase. But... While the rage is towards woman, eventually it becomes like "why the fuck did I let that happen to me, for so long?"
Sad answer? Because that man, as the victim, allowed. The infinite variety of possible reasons converge in the fact that man allowed. And now he won't.
This is the true redpill moment. And if you learned the lesson, you never allow yourself to be a second class citizen. Never consider yourself disposable. You have true value and such value is yours only.
Then you pick your path.
Soupy595 21h ago
You’re right the real redpill moment isn’t rage at women, but disgust with yourself for ever accepting less than you deserved. I spent too long drowning in that bitterness, mistaking suffering for virtue. The truth? No one put a gun to my head and forced me to be a doormat. I chose to believe the lie that my value was negotiable.
Now I see it differently. This isn't about blaming women for acting according to their nature. It's about taking full responsibility for my own life and choices. The real lesson is that I should have been protecting my own worth all along. Not because I hate women, but because I respect myself too much to be disposable.
I'm still working on fully internalizing this. Grind for status, fix my genetics through marriage, and enforce boundaries like my life depends on it because it does. Not as revenge, but because that's what a man who respects himself does.
Thanks for the reminder.
mattyanon Admin 15h ago
You can fix this
Here's a better plan: get yourself a solid career, life success, and follow your dreams and passions FOR YOURSELF.
It helps. and if you meet noone, it helps with that too.
good
"genuine connection" is a bit of a bullshit thing..... but sure, I get you.
Sure, let me try.
First ditch the black pill. No reading, no reddit, and try not to think along those lines. They're not entirely wrong per se..... but they are very very counter productive. Bitterness won't help you long term.
Next..... looksmax to the best you can. You're not tall, but everything else is fixable. Lose the body fat, gain muscles, work out, get super fit. Play team sports if you can, with men. Gym, fitness and weights are obligatory. This will benefit Every. Single. Aspect. Of. Your. Life.
Also... socialise. Talk to women every chance you get. Bars, bus stop, work, street, shops..... and learn to take every interaction as far as you can. Not just the minimum, but the maximum. Women need to be led, and they need you to have social skills, and you only get that with practice. It's hard, but you can do it.
Dress well. Get shoe lifts (within reason, don't go overboard). Be in environments that cater to social skills rather than height, and make a success of your life. In whatever way that means the most for you,
Soupy595 14h ago
I really appreciate the roadmap you laid out. You’re right blackpill doomscrolling is just self-sabotage. Here’s where I’m at now:
The Physical Grind: Already shedding weight (I am a fat fuck, now leaning out) Building a lean, muscular frame that fits my height Planning hard looksmaxxing , braces, grooming, maybe seoul-tier surgery when I get rich preferably in my 25's
Career: All in on civil services the ultimate status equalizer in India and also because its based on subjects I like (history , polity , economics etc) backed by a law degree for backup (you need to be a graduate to be eligible for the exam) Might not make me “desirable” in a superficial sense, but it commands instant respect, power, and identity It’s hard, but I know I can do it and I’d rather earn my status than cope.
I’ll admit, the “genuine connection” thing might be a bit of hopium. I don’t expect some fairy-tale romance or to suddenly be desired by everyone. But I do want to eventually have a relationship based on mutual respect something real.
Where I'm Stuck: The social skills gap is real. Avoided women for years thanks to blackpill brainrot Worry my improvements won't override the initial height/looks bias Like what do I even talk about? I’m not trying to self-pity, but I’m also not the kind of guy people gravitate toward, so starting those conversations feels weird. Should I just casually chat about normal stuff? How do I avoid coming off awkward or low-value when I’m still figuring all this out?
Either way really appreciate the guidance.