Hey, newbie here. I recently went on a date in a bar with a girl I met recently. Anything went pretty well for the first part.
When I started with kino, I started slowly; some taps on her shoulder to make a point, holding her hand over her phone when she was showing me some photos in her gallery, other taps on her thigh, our legs were touching all the time, etc.
To all of them, she responded neutrally, no particular reaction, just letting me do that. In my mind, when dealing with women, any obvious stop or hold back is a green light, so I escalated. I touched her thigh with my hand and rubbed my thumb on it a little. (I think doing this is pretty normal sexual escalation imo) She said "don't do that" and she instantly took my hand away from her.
This was pretty surprising to me because our legs were still touching. So I thought that this particular gesture was the problem. I didn't know how to interpret this 'rejection'. I have 2 explanations in mind:
- She was either not DTF or looking for a boyfriend type and wanted to take things more slowly. Or she meant "not now" and wanted to spend more time with her before that. I know that in those types of situations, the strategy is to try it again later. In this case, this type of escalation could be considered basic screening and is still ok.
- Her ASD got activated because we were in a bar (not that touch-friendly like a club), and anyone who was looking at us could have seen that my hand was resting on her thigh. In this case, then this type of escalation is just not appropriate for bars and should only be done in more private places like a car, home, etc.
Maybe some girls are ok with being touched on the thigh in public, but I would still take case two if those girls are not the norm, or even DTF girls get ASD as this happens. I would think that the problem is case two, and this type of escalation is just not appropriate for public places.
What do you guys think?
MrSupreme 3d ago
The kino seemed great, you went a bit too far and she let you know. The context is everything, i know girls can get super slutty at clubs.At bars, some touching is fine.
You're not gonna fuck her in either place (i think), so you gotta hold back a bit, play it cool and dont heat things up too much. You still gotta lead, and leading towards a public sex scenario doesn't work too much.
sirGreen 2d ago
Thank you for feedback!
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2d ago
You probably escalated too fast honestly
I don't touch their inner thighs or thighs really at all unless there is a vibe for it
Don't game just to game. You can't out game a lack of a vibe without losing ground to the lack of vibe
I've had dates where she never moved away from my touches but never touched back. Fucked at her place
You guys need to not just lunge for kino like you're owed it in game just because. You can tell when they are ready for it because there are other components of the vibe suggesting it is going really well
Sounds like you are just rather inexperienced and overly relying on touch to game. You need to cultivate more of an atmosphere where they are begging to have more of you and wanting to see where the night goes, kino is not something you have just go watering all over everything and women magically put out
I rarely touch their thighs before I pull
In all likelihood she wasn't ready and it sounds like you have up instead of recalibrating
No one cares about seeing a hand on someone's leg dude she just wasn't vibing with you and you threw out touch there wasn't a vibe for yet
sirGreen 2d ago
Thank you very much!
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2d ago
No problem!
I have a game versus vibe guide in the world it's just very hard to put into words
Will release it in the distant future
orbilius 2d ago
A tap is fine once; maybe twice. But be careful. Taps are more along the lines of "girl kino" - when a girl is into you, she'll make an excuse to touch you like that. But tapping is not overtly masculine. A man isn't communicating that he's dominant and in charge by tapping, or by having his leg touching her. However, if a girl does that, she is communicating sexual interest. See what I mean?
I would say the gold standard for male-initiated kino is prolonged (not momentary) contact that reinforces male and female roles. Specifically, contact that makes it clear you're bigger than her, stronger than her, in charge, and that you're protective.
In other words, the best kino (prior to making out), in my opinion, is having your arm around her. Girls aren't turned by those momentary taps - not the way we men are. They are turned on by being held.
So my advice is to start looking for opportunities to get an arm around her naturally - places you can go that are conducive to it.
I have a few spots in my hometown that have bench seating ...but aren't restaurants. The best one is a "beer garden" that has live music, and some of the seats are benches, with backs. I sit down first, and sit with my arm stretched out like this: https://files.catbox.moe/2gasv0.png
Most girls just naturally sit in close and now my arm is around her. If she tries to sit on the end, I make a joke like, "what are you doing way over there?" and then they move over.
Look for places where you can do this - I can offer more examples if needed. It's much, much more productive than "tapping" - it's more natural, and more in line with male/female roles.
Once you've had your arm around her while sitting down, you do it standing up and walking. If it's cold out, help her put her coat on, and get your arm around her that way. It feels natural ... and it's classy - you'll usually get a comment like "wow I've never had a guy help me put my coat on." Also, the first touch (other than a hug when you meet) should be offering her your hand when you have to step up, like when there are steps in front of a door.
Anyway, it's very easy to go from holding a girl in your arms to kissing her. Then after the kiss, you'll have license to touch more of her (her thigh for example). I think that's a more natural progression than what you did: (1) tapping (2) leg contact (honestly, that doesn't even count) (3) touch thigh
I've closed on first dates (and obviously there's more to it than kino, but you already know that) and the progression was (1) meet her in the parking lot, hug (2) up the steps into venue, turn back and offer her my hand (3) sit down with arm stretched out, she sits next to me - whenever I want to say something to her, like a comment about the music, I pull her with that arm and she leans in and turns toward me. It's very intimate (4) walking around; put my arm around her again (5) stop somewhere, turn her toward me with the arm that's around her - kiss
I'm undoubtedly older than you, so maybe this is a generational thing, but personally I avoid phones like the plague - especially her phone. It's something that she owns that is competing for her attention. Not the dynamic you want.
If you really have to see a pic, I would take the phone from her. I think asserting a bit of dominance by having possession of her phone (even for a second) is a more productive play than letting her hold it and trying to get kino points.
sirGreen 2d ago
Wow, this is clearly a very strong piece of advice. You spotted mistakes I didn’t even know I was making. I love the distinction between girl kino and man kino, maybe I haven’t read enough on kino, because I’ve never heard of this distinction before. Thank you very much. Your thoughts have helped me a lot, and I’m looking forward to implementing them.
Musicgoon78 2 2d ago
Sounds like you did well overall. Some girls simply have spots they don't like touched. Or your pacing could have been a bit too fast.
Pacing is odd because it's a mix of physical and mental escalation. My own pace is very fast and very sexual. The key to it is make it seem just like a part of who you are.
My first tip for the future. Always start a date with a big hug. Break that touch barrier immediately. Give her a good squeeze. Don't pussy out on that. Hug her like she's an old friend that you've really missed. This really sets the tone.
Second is sexualize the conversation. Compliment something about her appearance. Show her you're not shy. Issue commands for compliance. "Stand up for a minute. Lemme see your outfit". "Come sit next to me right here". Show me that tattoo on your lower back". Get her to submit and comply. This will show confidence and dominance which will give her the tingles.
The best way to escalate is to treat her like she's already yours. If she agreed to the date she either should be or she's in it for a free ride. That information is vital to continue.
Remember by escalating you are not trying your luck, you're giving her something good. Time attention and affection. These are things that women want and require. Not making a move is really the most shitty thing a guy can do on a date.
You've got this! Just keep pushing forward.
Bozza 2 2d ago
I will second this. My approach is always:
Within the first minute you've already established kino, tested for compliance, and set a sexual frame.
Tattoos, Nails, Jewellery are all great for kino. "Oh I like your ____". She'll then show you and you can touch her.
JPCantell 2d ago
This seems a little too length of an analysis for this type of situation.
What I’m saying is, quit fucking overthinking this shit.
It’s the autist level analysis of these situations that makes you come off as an autist in these situations instead of having natural flow. If you trust your instinct you’ll know when you’re trying to move too fast etc.
You need to find alignment with your inner masculine energy and go with your gut/flow instead of trying to ‘act out’ these approaches.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2d ago
Good take
Natural is always superior