I'll keep this short. After one and a half year I'm finding out I might be dating an alpha widow.
Been dating this girl for one and a half year. She's always been all over me, since day one. We met each other for a few months before I deemed her worth for LTR. I got to know her and beside the vetting I also made sure I was the best dude she ever had. But I'm realising now that might not be entirely true...
Few months before she met me she was seeing this one guy. I didn't care that much, I assumed I was better considering what I knew of him and at the time my self confidence was very high. I was very arrogant and aloof, getting lots of girls and pretty happy with my life in general. She was one of 5 girls on my rotation at that time.
Anyway, 20 months later, last week I went through her phone, first time ever I do this. i found an old conversation with some of her friends and found out she was all over this guy before me. Like intense oneitis, she was obsessed. Apparently he was a brute in bed, absolute animal. I also found some messages about me from after we met. After our second or third date she answered "Was the date better with him than with X" by "in general kind of, the sex was great and he adores me in some way".
I don't know if that sounds nice or not but I'm bothered by few things:
- We were going through her pictures one day, me and her together, and some picture of her (taken by him) came out. Let's say the guy apparently liked them cheeks purple...She said she had forgot to remove it.
- One month after we met, during a conversation she said I was a teddy bear, that I was gentle and that she was used to hard spanking... I thought myself as a pretty rough guy considering I spank, strangle, use my belts, use handcuffs, and am pretty intense in general. But no, apparently for her it was soft and gentle. I can't imagine what that dude was like lol
- The guy "broke up" with her. She was all over him and obviously was trying to maintain their so called relation. The guy was honestly probably seeing other girl and/or she was just a toy. At that time she was telling her friends it was the best sex in her life. They met for two months total. I came in 2 months after their break up.
Anyway, these last few years I worked on myself a lot and was very self confident, even before meeting her. I live in a country where it's not so hard to stand out and a big portion of my life revolve around how I take care of me. But this thing is starting to shatter my ego for the first time... I can't possibly accept to be second in line. I never pictures myself as the good beta guy, and I even thought I was a jerk in the beginning of the relation. I thought I was rough and tough, I really take it hard that dude was so much more brutal considering how high I set the bar already..
Except for that she adores me, I can't even complain, she treats me like a king since one and a half year. And she never done anything weird, that's why I'm bothered.. she's a good partner except for that.
If you guys have any insights on that, I'd appreciate. I'm approaching the times where the relation becomes more cemented and serious. Am I committing to an alpha widow ? I can't possibly take the risk and go further if I'm actually the second best she had
Silly_birb_returns 3mo ago
Your mistake is committing to a non virgin, because women mold themselves on the men they fuck. So you want a blank slate that adapts to you, your type of sex is the sex she is into, not some kink another guy was into or like often happens she doesn't do extreme things with you to not look like a slut.
Just look at women's hobbies, they took them from their ex boyfriends, just ask them how they got into it.
[deleted] 4mo ago
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Lone_Ranger 2 4mo ago
I feel you bro. I hate the feeling that a woman is alpha widowed, it makes me feel like she is settling. No man wants to be settled for.
But you have to bear in mind that women don't always know what they are talking about. They say stupid things to their friends to impress them.
I would judge her by her behaviours - is she treating you like a god? Does she seem to have a decent amount of dread? If so, just ignore the silly shit she says to her silly friends. Its behaviour that matters.
The truth is that most women beyond the age of about 22 are alpha widowed. That's life. The only way to get around this is to judge for behaviours.
SSnake25 4mo ago
Yes it's terrible.. I regret showing her I had a comfortable situation at that time. Not even on purpose, I just liked hanging out in fancy places, going to nice restaurants.. and she was just following along you now. Should we just take them to some dive or what?
You mean judge by behaviour if she actually is an alpha widow? I vetted her for months before LTR.. at that time I didn't really dig into her past, just getting hints here and there you know. I didn't feel there might be an alpha.. She checked the boxes and all..
Yeah not my best move with her phone, but what about "trust by verify"? I've been a long time lurker here and the number of posts where guys just dodged a massive bullet by checking their gf's phone.. Im thinking about commitment because I'm just at that time of the relation where it's getting really serious.. I can't pretend it's casual anymore. And then you know they start talking to you about moving in together etc.. For me it's mostly about the psychological commitment.. when your brain starts thinking this girl is a long term thing, this is where the game gets harder.. you start overthinking, make mistakes, looking for little details..
And I'm 28 and she's 23. Met casually through an app, she was just one of many at that time. She proved herself worthy so after some time I stopped seeing other girls and that's it. I'm not looking to get married and have kids yet
Lone_Ranger 2 4mo ago
"Should we just take them to some dive or what?"
Why take them anywhere? the solution to not being billy beta bux is not to bring them to a cheaper restaurant -its to not take them to ANY restaurant. Why would a man bring a woman to restaurant (cheap or otherwise)? What for?
You see how deep your programming runs? Your instinct to protect and provide runs deep. Which means you will always be a target for women.
I don't mean vet for alpha widow - I mean vet for behaviours - how does she treat you?
I am now of the opinion that if a woman is making you feel insecure or bad about yourself, you need to push the eject button. Just get out of there.
SSnake25 4mo ago
Ok I understand what you mean, but I like to go out and have a drink, sit in a nice place. I do that with or without them, but for a date it's a comfortable set for me. I know places, I know people, I have my habits.. What do you do personally?
As I was saying, she treats me like a king.. she treats me like I'm her first and only, she never mentioned anybody else, she behaves towards me like I'm the best man on earth. And besides that she gives me a good life.. sex, cooking, emotional support, follows along... Can't complain really
It's just that it's gonna be 2 years of LTR soon, 2 years of seeing only one woman and it's starting to show.. with my frame getting weaker, loss of abundance mentality.. I start asking myself too many questions, and that's what led to me digging in her phone
No-Stress-Cat 4mo ago
How to tell if you are dealing with an Alpha Widow: If she says anything about her ex that you didn't ask.
Lone_Ranger 2 4mo ago
not sure that is great indicator.
Many (most?) women will try to causes jealousy in you by making inappropriate remarks about previous lovers. Its in their nature - its a form of shit testing and just a way to be a massive cunt.
The reality is that if you are the chadliest chad she has ever fucked, she will still find ways to destablise you and make you feel insecure, simply by dropping hints that she has had better than you. That is my experience.
Lone_Ranger 2 4mo ago
don't ask about ex's.
I have yet to have a girlfriend that didn't want to drone on about ex's ....all the time
Its a monumental pain in the ass. Its a sort shit test that I just hate. I only don't mind if I don't care about the chick. If I'm in love with the girl, it destroys the relationship.
Women destroy the relationships. That's my experience. It's the one thing that actually makes me bitter. they say they want a nice time, they want romance and loving feelings, then they shit all over the relationship in a totally unnecessary way - by droning with explicit details about ex partners.
whytehorse2021 4mo ago
Go look up the war bride effect and then convert her to you as her alpha. https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/03/war-brides/
No-Stress-Cat 4mo ago
The War Bride Effect: Chain her to the bed with a book on the side table titled, "How to be a Good Wife."
Theolympicnomad 4mo ago
There's literally no problem here. The only wrong thing here is that you went through her phone which is an EXTREMELY feminine thing to do. If I had to guess I would say that you think she's too good for you. You don't have to worry about her "ex" he was just a different type of guy.
Remember bro, women have "fluid identities". They have morals and beliefs of whatever guy she deems the most masculine in her life (A guy she's chasing per se). That guy used to her her "ex", now its you. Enjoy it.
SSnake25 4mo ago
Too good for me I don't think so, the thing is the more time passes and the more I'm breaking frame yeah.. It was way easier when I was spinning plates. I was aloof, nothing they were saying was affecting me. Feels like I'm going backward. LTR really sets you up for oneitis
NeoSpartan 4mo ago
Girl sounds like quite the freak if she likes it purple. Spank her harder I guess, also, theres a good chance her showing you that pic of her purple bum was "accidentally on purpose". Girls like doing that, giving hints rather than saying something outright. Seems to me to be giving hints to you about not feeling dominated enough during sex. You could try adding a blindfold, similar effect to rough but safer.
I'd be careful if I were you though dude. One thing I always worry about during sex with a girl like that is if things go bad and she wants to hurt you, there's like physical evidence.
But I wouldn't worry much about the ex if it was only 2 months. Not really enough time to become an "Alpha widow" or w/e, girls have to pair bond pretty hard to get stuck on a guy forever and 2 months is definitely not enough time for that to happen, even if the sex was really good.
Kloi 4mo ago
Good news is you're not second, you're fifth or thirteenth, or one hundred thirty sixth. There is always going to be better, tougher, stronger guys than you.
I doubt she's alpha widowed, she's probably not use to hearing no, so the fact he dumped her off to the side will always sting.
Either you get over it or find yourself a dateless virgin.
IMO your ego is fragile because this clearly got in your head.
This is part of the reason I don't snoop through women's phones. Not worth the headache.
SSnake25 4mo ago
Yes this definitely got into my head, I didn't expect to find this. Keeping your head clear when you're seeing only one woman for a long time can be tough A good lesson for me
Musicgoon78 1 4mo ago
So she's fucking you good, you like her, she adores you and treats you like a king?
I don't see a problem. Sounds like you're looking for a problem.
Women are going to have a past. Some of the truth is going to sting. That is what it is. You could next her, but why?
Would you throw away something good because you don't have a problem and need one?
SSnake25 4mo ago
No you're right, I lost my shit.. How the hell do you keep your head clear and maintain frame non stop for many years? I used to think spinning plates was the tough part but LTR is the definitely the real challenge
Musicgoon78 1 4mo ago
The only way I can do it is to STFU and then process my thoughts and emotions when she's not around.
You're not going to find a single woman without a past and most of it will bother you. Just know that is the same thing for her.
You are correct. An LTR is playing the game on hard mode.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 4mo ago
Ok, I'm an old guy here, like 60. so, us old guys, who are still dating women at this age, we have a much expanded view of the world.
how so?
We've had lots of LTRs', have been married, the girls/women we are with, same. The women generally have had kids with the ex-hubby,etc.
so, think about all that , right?
so, I'm putting myself way way back in time, in your type of position. Here's what i see.
Ego....
First, how can you determine if you are the best she's had? And in what way?
Sex relationship both?
Every girl I've been with, except a few ONS, have told me I'm the best they've had.
Ask me if I believe it. F No, Women think they have to say that if they have a chance of keeping you. I have to tell him he's the best I've had otherwise he wont' want to continue seeing me.
So, just remove all the Ego shit. You young guys really need to put that away.
Assume you aren't her best and guess what. What the hell is her best? what does it mean? Think about it, what was your best sex, what was your best sexual partner? How do you define it?
Was it the girl, was it the experience?, the place/location, the sexual tension, the newness and so on.
The honeymoon period of couples we've all heard about, last months to at most 2 years. That's when things are new, you are getting to know it other and it's "exciting" and such.
Anyone who hasn't gone more than 2 years with a girl, doesn't really get that. Sure, you may have got bored with each other in 2 months and split or whatever, but after 2 years and still enjoying it.
The old saying, anyone can hit it right, once, but hitting it almost every time after years, now that's tough.
so, getting back to are you the beta or second best or whatever.
Beta, definitely thing about that. Are you paying her way? Don't.
My girl was a slut before me, I know it. I don't pay her way, our finances are not mixed. Why does she want to and enjoy satisfying me?
So, your girl, if you aren't paying her, buying her stuff. You say she treats you like a king and you are 1.5 years in.
Does she expect a ring? Now, I know of girls who hid their intentions, they wanted the ring and behaved well, UNTIL they got the ring. But theirs always signs. If you are thinking of ring or , no ring but a partnership. Remember, partnership, dont' mix finances.
Focus on the following.
Does she want to satisfy you and enjoys it? Does she initiate sex, does she worry or get anxious when you haven't in awhile? Does she treat you like a king, you said yes do you have the same goals in life? Does she add value to your life? She is not inhibiting your goals in life. Does she follow your lead, you want to do stuff/things and she lets you lead or lets you do your thing?
If she's doing really good in these areas, then life is good dude.
I mean, what do you expect/need? Looking for perfection, that's not life.
Maybe this guy was her best, before she met you?
Maybe this guy was best sex, in the short time they were together. Again, it's easy to have crazy sex short term with someone. At least for me it was and they guys I know. Sex is great when it's uncomplicated, you don't care about the girl, just having fun.
Is sex not as good with someone you really care about? Not what I'm saying, but it's different.
Let the "Best" thing go, it's not helpful
benzino 4mo ago
A lot of what you said is correct, but here we are dealing with loyalty.
As I said above, I dated a girl very similar to this but I'm not in OP's position. I was the guy who refused commitment and got her going crazy.
I broke contact for about a year, then she hit me up and we slept together, then I found out she was dating another guy at that time. Poor guy never knew what hit him.
She could be treating you like a king, showering you with love, but when her better option comes along, she will ditch.
I hard nexted her because I didn't like the lying, and I couldn't give her what wanted - commitment. So she got married.
OP can still keep her around for FWB or plating, but his gut instinct already told him she's not 100% into this relationship. I think it's pointless to try to make it work
Intrepid_Place53900 1 4mo ago
A girl lying, definitely is not good, context is very important.
If you didn't want to give her commitment and that was her goal. Good that you nexted her. I never strung them along once It was clear they wanted a lot more than what I did.
disagree on what that OP thinks she's not 100% into relationship. From original post , looks like she is.
SSnake25 4mo ago
Thanks for the insight
Yeah I know I'm probably overthinking.. I guess when you put all your eggs in one basket you start thinking differently.. I remember I didn't care at all when I was seeing other girls, had a rotation.. I didn't have such fragile ego.
I understand your girl is your current girl? Maybe you have a family already or don't care to have one, so it doesn't really matter and you're just enjoying what she gives you ? One thing at the time I'm probably not that aloof at this point now
This guy dumped her. I guess I'm thinking what happens when he decides to come back to hit it one more time. We know women tend to pick their best option I always thought myself better than any guys she's been with, but now things are different I suppose
Intrepid_Place53900 1 4mo ago
Yes, when you commit, it changes things. That's why you should take your sweet time before doing so with girls.
Yes, I'm in a LTR, we both have grown kids from x spouses. We've both been in bad marriages, know what we are looking for and don't want.
If I had to do my life all over. I'd not get into serious relationships until 30.
And when I started dating after divorce, wow, that's when I noticed how big the $$ aspect is with women. Obviously I was around older women and it starts with $$ for most of them. That's one of the reasons I'm outspoken about if you are looking for a LTR, don't show them you have money. don't spend money on them. You want to find out if it's about the $$ or about you.
Hey, I dumped a lot of girls back in my day. Most girls, if they are with a guy, they aren't going to go back to the other guy, unless she's just using current guy as a placeholder.
dude, if she's treating you like a king, you aren't a placeholder.
benzino 4mo ago
She's for the streets bro.
Definitely not LTR material. Use her for recreational use only. Other dude likely broke up with her for a reason.
Dated a girl very similar to this. They just cant keep their legs shut.