Note: I'm done with this girl for good.
I was seeing a girl who I didn't take seriously. After a little while she was pushing for "romance" and to be "courted".
I told her that I viewed it as a casual relationship. I'll admit that I did initially claim I was "working towards" a relationship when she got heavy LMR after grinding on my dick with her pants off.
Anyway, she didn't want to do casual with me. She acted like she doesn't do casual at all.
So then she went on to fuck her 1st ex again and then her 2nd again. The first ex allegedly told her he changed and wanted a relationship and that she was the love of his life. Then he fucked her a few times and ghosted her.
In between the time that she fucked the first ex again and the time she fucked the second again, I tried to get back with her because I was horny I guess and also thought that maybe I shouldn't have responded the way I did when she was mentioning her concerns previously.
I even told her I was wanting to get serious (this might have been a bit unethical since there was like a 70% chance I'd never have gotten into a relationship with her no matter what). She said we want different things and said she does things with "intention" and "purpose" in regards to dating. She acted like she just doesn't do casual and referenced my text saying I wanted casual and said I was clear that I wanted casual only.
Yet, on New Year's Eve/Day both myself and her second ex reached out. She ended up going with the second ex, and when they saw each other he told her he was moving in a few months and she still fucked him that day and then saw him again a couple weeks later and fucked him then. She chose to do this rather than get back with me, and only after she stopped seeing him did she end up reaching out to me again and we started seeing each other again (at this point she was at least hoping for a relationship with me).
When I grilled her on this when I initially found out, and told her how she wouldn't fuck me casually yet fucked him casually, she eventually said, "Who said it was casual? You're saying that, I never said that. The plan was for us to do long distance for a while and blah blah blah, but then I started overthinking afterward and realized long distance wouldn't work so I ended it."
That made sense to me... from my perspective, she was desperate and she was willing to take a long distance relationship at this point because she was so desperate for a relationship and the other two guys she's fucked in her life (me and her first ex) didn't take her seriously.
However, yesterday I asked her about this situation and she said she knew as soon as he told her that he was moving that she wouldn't try long distance, and she said it was just casual for her. I reminded her how she said the plan was long distance and she acted like she didn't remember saying that, then when I kept giving details she said, "Maybe I was saying that that was his plan, I only wanted casual."
This fucked with my head. I don't understand this and the guy is also ugly. She said it was casual the first time they ever fucked and then became a relationship, and then said it was casual this time around too. I don't understand because I thought women make rules for Betas and break rules for Alphas. Also, she described him as a rebound when she was talking about why she fucked him in the first place.
I can't comprehend how she literally just says one thing, does the other, then SAYS the other like there's no contradiction. Words over actions yeah, but since when did they start literally admitting that their words don't match their actions without making an excuse?
So my questions are:
-
Is she lying about wanting casual with him that time, maybe as a way to make herself seem like her actions were thought-out even though her actions were gross and contradictory to her previous words?
- If she did fuck this guy casually, why? Back in the day she made him wait a long time for a first date, then made him wait two more months for a second while fucking her ex in between and getting played by him before fucking ex #2. She just doesn't seem attracted to him yet she fucks him casually, which is confusing me because why would they fuck an ugly guy casually? Am I uglier than this guy and that's why she wouldn't fuck me casually?
It honestly seems like she chose this guy over me when it comes to casual, and also that she chose casual with him rather than trying to get a relationship with me when there was at least a glimmer of hope that she could have.
Edit: Also, I've seen people even on Reddit claim that ugly guys can't get casual and can only get relationships, so this makes me think she must have found him hot and makes me think I must be the ugly guy here. I don't think I'm ugly but what if I am and just don't know it?
Silly_birb_returns 3mo ago
Dude, fist rule of the female mind: she is never accountable of her actions.
The reason of her behavior is that women think that if they manage to sleep with a man they are close to have him commit to her in a relationship.
Also they don't want to feel like sluts that are into casual sex, so they prefer that a man lies so that after the casual sex she can put all the blame on him for playing her. That's why her 2nd ex fucked her with a lie of a relationship, and such women will keep bouncing around the same dudes, hoping that her nagging would push any of the guys to commit or get her pregnant (the epidemic of single mothers must come from somewhere).
Your mistake was being honest on the casual sex, which is why she came back to you, because if she manages to make you say yes to a relationship you may be honest about it. Which is also why she was more stingy about having sex with you, it's a game of power using her pussy since she knows it's the only thing you are interested about her.
Because more than making rules for Betas, it's about women being opportunistic in nature, if they can leverage something (aka sex) they will not bend unless you give them what they want. After all they always have options for casual sex, and they prefer a lie of a possible relationship rather than the certainty of casual sex.
Wintergreen 3mo ago
It was the first ex who lied and said he wanted a relationship.
The second ex told her he was moving (4-5 hours away) and she told me that she was NOT considering a long distance relationship with him and that she fucked him casually. She said that she felt more comfortable doing casual with him since he was involved with her longer (before she broke up with him originally, which happened prior to me meeting her).
So your comment makes sense, except the part of my story where she fucked him casually and said it was casual. Keep in mind that before this revelation she did say that it wasn’t casual and that they were planning to do long distance, but that she decided against it later, BUT I will admit that I may have pushed her to give that answer. When she said it was casual, I didn’t push her to give that answer (obviously, and that wasn’t what I wanted to hear).
So what do you think the deal was? Did she want a long distance relationship with her but lied and said she didn’t for some reason?
Thanks for your comment.
Silly_birb_returns 3mo ago
I think she initially wanted a relationship from the long distance guy, but since she did not want a long distance relationship she rationalized as "it was just casual sex" to protect her feelings and not think of herself of a fool, which would explain why she contradicted her statements.
To put it simply when you try to understand women you have to think that every argument is based on a feeling, if she is saying something is because she is feeling something. I tested this with my female friends and within this framework the women were surprised i could talk their language. Basically it's not about what is being said but "why it is being said", reason why we men see their chatting as empty, but it is not, it's just different.
So in your situation when she talks about commitment is because she feels the desire to have a man that values her, when she is against casual sex is because she feels like a slut for not being as good as other women, and when she rationalize the lack of commitment after she gave sex is because she feels like a fool.
I bet that if she finds a man to honestly commit to her she would be happy, but like the tail of the frog and the scorpion she will sting the man to death because she is used to have multiple men with whom she had casual sex (lie or not) and she is not used to be loyal to one guy.
In short, she is for the streets, even if she whishes she wasn't.
This type of women keep hopping from man to man for all their lives.
Wintergreen 3mo ago
This is what I was thinking too.. like, she was probably a bit apprehensive about long distance but figured she’d try and then eventually realized her apprehension was valid because long distance isn’t viable.
Dude this is exactly what I was thinking but I needed confirmation from someone else, thanks. It’s like she feels like she needs to justify to herself why she wouldn’t see things through with this guy and give it an honest try, so she pretends she had thought-out intention all along.
Silly_birb_returns 3mo ago
You are welcome
ogrilla99 4mo ago
Jesus dude. I think I grew a vagina reading your post. Here are a few points that might help you figure things out.
Rule #1: there is no figuring out women. You end your post with a bunch of questions about what is really going on inside this woman's head, and the answers are #1: who the fuck knows, and #2: why do you care? Look at her actions my friend.
As opposed to her words, here is what her actions are clearly stating:
These conclusions are pretty clear. Your confusion comes from listening to her words and trying to reconcile them with her actions which is a futile exercise.
Now onto more useful stuff: looking at your own actions and what you can do differently. First, your grilling her on what she does in her own time, who she fucks, why, when, how many times, blah blah blah is diametrically opposite to holding frame and demonstrates that you are far more "invested" in your relationship, such as it is, than she is.
If you both had agreed to be exclusive and then she goes and fucks someone, you end the relationship. No need for drawn out conversations, some sort of bullshit "closure", or whatever. Just end it calmly and move on. OTOH, if you guys are not exclusive, then who she fucks on her own time is of no consequence to you. Assume she fucks around. Assume it's casual. Obviously that means she's not relationship material, and so you decide if you want to keep her as a plate or not and proceed. Either she will agree to be your plate, or she won't. If she decides she won't, then shrug and move on. Don't beg her. Don't dangle a relationship in front of her. Don't get mad and demand to know why she's fucking other people and not you. None of that is going to improve your chances of her changing her mind, and in fact will do the opposite. It only reinforces in her mind that you're being a whiny bitch and she's right to go back to her exes.
I'm glad you've decided this relationship is over, because in truth, after behaving like a high school girl playing gossip, I'm not sure there's any way for you to recover whatever respect and desire she had for you before all of this. Take it as a learning experience and move on.
Regarding your question about why she went back to her ugly ex and fucked him no strings attached while she refuses to do the same with you, go back and read the previous paragraph. Your behavior absolutely did lower your sexual worth below her ugly ex. Remember that alpha status is not just based on looks (although that's a big part of it). And it's relative. If Brad Pitt came along she'd throw all of you to the curb. But if her only options are you three guys (ex #1, #2, and you) then yes, right now, you're the lowest option because of your behavior. Even hot guys can become beta based on their behavior. It's common, for example, for alpha dudes to get married, then slowly get turned into betas by their wives, and then finally dumped because "the spark is gone". These designations are not permanent.
Without knowing exactly what transpired between her and her exes, I imagine that they didn't throw such a hissy fit as you did when she talked about fucking around, and especially ex #2 telling her outright that he's moving away in a few months, I suspect they basically told her the deal (that they're open to casual fucking if she wants, otherwise no big deal, wish her well and move on) and told her to take it or leave it. And she took it because it was the best deal available at the time.
These sound like harsh truths, and I'm sorry if they bruise your ego. But you basically violated almost every tenet of red pill. You didn't have abundance mentality. You didn't assume it was just your turn. When she rejected you, you kept going back to her and sweetening the deal. You lost frame by spending all your time talking about her relationship troubles rather than on shit that's important to you. Rather than AMOG'ing her exes, you made them look better by sounding more insecure and desperate than them. And so on. Are you surprised by the results?
Wintergreen 4mo ago
I don’t think they asked
Why didn’t she agree to do casual with me? This is why I wonder if she was into him more even before I broke frame. Or could it have been because I rejected her too hard back then? She said she wanted to be romanced or whatever while we were still seeing each other and I told her I wasn’t seeking a relationship and only viewed it as casual and she didn’t go for that. One thing though is that he didn’t tell her he was moving until they were already on the date. He made her think it’d be serious and then dropped that on her while she was already there so he had that element of secrecy until he gave her a date.
Note: she fucked the exes after I told her I didn’t want a relationship and she wouldn’t do casual with me. When she tried to push for a relationship I had not asked her anything about her exes or anything like that so by that point I had not broken frame. I actually treated her very casually while the others had taken her on dates when they were together.
ogrilla99 4mo ago
Then that means she already didn't think much of you even before all of this happened. I don't know when it happened, or why, since I don't have all the details of the full arc of your relationship. But the principles of TRP still stand.
If she casually fucked other people and not you, then you were of lower sexual attraction to her. Stop asking for some other explanation. There is none. Now, if you ask, "what did I do to lower my sexual value in her eyes?" then we're getting somewhere, because that question at least carries with it the possibility that you might act differently next time.
But you have to stop running the hamster in your mind. All of your questions boil down to "Is there some explanation for why she fucked her ex and not me that still keeps my SMV higher than her ugly ex?" When I put it that way, do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?
If you accept that and move on, then I'll give you one piece of helpful advice. If you tell a girl (or anyone) something and don't back it up, then they lose any respect for you and your words become meaningless. In this case, you told the girl you're not interested in a relationship, only casual. She walked (as she's allowed to do). Then you come back to her saying "just kidding! Actually, I am interested in a relationship. I didn't mean what i said before. Please, please fuck me. I'm dying here." What do you think she thinks of you? She called your bluff, and you crawled back.
What you should have done is what her exes did (I assume): they gave her their terms for continuing their relationship, she didn't agree to them and walked, and they let her go (thus why they're exes). Maybe they still stayed on friendly terms, or texted once in a while. But when the relationship was over (whether she dumped them or they dumped her), they didn't go crawling back to her. They moved on. And whatever she thought of them before, their value increased after doing that. Then when you come around and fail to do the same, and pretend to give her an ultimatum but then crawl back to her when she calls you on it, then do you see why she thinks you're lower than her exes who -- regardless of their physical appearance -- were man enough to stick to their principles?
Wintergreen 4mo ago
Okay so this all makes sense, thanks.
You say that I should ask you what I did to lower my SMV in her eyes, but tbh I can’t think of anything. We didn’t even talk on the phone or anything and her complaint was that I didn’t ever put in effort. She also broke up with ex #2 for “not putting in effort”, only he said he would once she mentioned it initially and then he didn’t follow through, and he kept trying to get her to see him for 16 days after they last saw each other. There was no terms that he shared, she just wanted to leave because he wasn’t doing what he said. I think had he said “this is casual” she’d have left him too.
So perhaps it’s not a matter of my SMV dropping before she said she wouldn’t do casual with me, it seems likely to me that the problem was my post-breakup behavior as you suggested to be a part of it. Because like I said, she’d have broken up with either had they said flat out it was casual in such a way, at least in my opinion.
What you’re saying about that makes sense, does my conclusion make sense to you or am I off base?
EurasianChad 1 4mo ago
Women do not operate on logic, bro. They can rationalize absolutely anything.
Here's what works:
Put yourself first, always. A constant quest on improving your body, bettering yourself in your hobbies, and finances. Your immediate family & trusted friends are important too.
Be completely unemotional in regards to needing "love" from women.
Never get attached to a single woman. Always be willing to walk away when there is any sort of disrespect. This will keep your self esteem high, and reduce drama from your life. Put your life first bro.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 4mo ago
Look, you are trying to rationalize a girls "hamster". that's not possible, that's her reality , not yours.
focus on your reality to understand this.
Yes, this girl does Casual, she's got no issue with it.
Yes, this girl is using Casual sex to attempt to get a LTR
Yes, she wants a LTR and will use sex to get the LTR
Yes, she's not really interested in You per se, she's interested in whoever will enter into a LTR with her.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
Exactly what I was thinking.
I know I come off as though I’m overthinking, but I’m trying to get clarity here. I don’t have feelings for this girl (I started to dislike her personality and convictions as time went on), but I’m curious: what was the deal with the guy who was moving? Was she trying to get an LTR out of it? I kind of think she was entertaining the idea of long distance, maybe not wholeheartedly but somewhat, especially because the move was like 5 hours away and they could still see each other while he simps.
Or, was she just genuinely doing some casual thing?
Theolympicnomad 4mo ago
You already lost by having "feelings". Save that for the humans with vaginas.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 4mo ago
Who knows? You really shouldn't care about that. Don't try to understand specific situations with women. Generalizations like the Red Pill stuff , sure, but specific situations where you don't know all the details, it's not possible.
focus on what you want, focus on your goals, what you want out of life. What you enjoy,etc.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
Thanks. The reason I care though is because I take this to mean certain things about myself. Not sure if I should but I do.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 4mo ago
? Explain please
to mean certain things about yourself? like what?
Wintergreen 4mo ago
“Women make rules for betas and break them for alphas”.
I was familiar with this redpill concept before and now I feel like it’s happened to me where I might be the beta in this situation. I mean she literally did casual after telling me she doesn’t do casual and stopping seeing me due to me wanting casual.
I think there may be other aspects at play here but I’m haunted by the fact that no matter what, she fucked that guy knowing for a fact that it wasn’t going anywhere (unless she was lying about not wanting to try long distance).
So yeah, “women make rules for betas and break them for alphas” is what I’m concerned about.
I’m not sure if that’s the explanation for what played out here which is why I came here to see if there’s any nuance but almost everyone has told me that I’m a beta cuck lol.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 4mo ago
Look.
There's women who do casual, and some find they don't enjoy it. They typically won't do casual again, they'll only have sex if they think there's a relationship coming out of it. Like they go on a few dates, like the guy, thinks it's going somewhere and then jump him.
There's some girls who find they really enjoy casual sex. These are the girls who will fuck a guy any time it suits them. If they "feel" like it tonight and some guy they find good looking is up for it, or they go on tinder and swipe right and see who's the most fun, got the biggest D, etc.
I think it's pretty clear, the girl does casual and has no issue with it. But, She's really looking for a LTR. Now, why she did this guy knowing he's moving. Who Cares? She wants to visit him? He pays for stuff? He's got a big D? Who cares
And the Alpha/Beta stuff, don't get too stuck on it.
But, don't pay for stuff, don't be her wallet.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
Do you think it might be because he pays for stuff/takes her on fun dates?
I’m sure it’s not that he has a big dick, one time I sent her a picture on Snapchat where I happened to be naked (comparing previous physique with new physique) and she commented that the picture didn’t do it justice and said “because you have a GOOD sized dick but that picture doesn’t do it justice”. I’m 100% sure his dick is not bigger than mine.
Alpha/beta in my concern is about who is hotter tbh.
Also her n count is only 3 currently, I’m the third, so I don’t think she is that okay with casual.
But really, could all this be explained by the fact that he treated her more nicely than I did? I kind of treated her badly and rejected her for a relationship and made her feel like I wasn’t into her, according to her, and I believe this because she would cry every time she talked about it.
Although you don’t want me to get too fixated on alpha vs beta, would a girl reject an alpha for a beta who treats her nicely?
So either if it was because he validated her or because she was indeed considering long distance it’d make sense but only if that is something they would do even if they didn’t find the guy as attractive and didn’t like him as much. I flat out told her I wasn’t seeking a relationship and viewed it as casual which made her stop seeing me originally.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 4mo ago
you are still focused on your ego
I need to be hotter than him, I need to have a bigger D than him.
Look, it's good to have confidence, ie Ego. But it can also be unhealthy.
And her N is 3? I highly doubt it, since when did we actually start believing girls on this? And from what I've read, it sure does seem like she's fine with Casual. I think you are trying to make her look like a nice girl next door. That's not what I'm reading.
Yes, girls cry to try to manipulate you. You told her you didn't want a real relationship. So at that point she can and will do whatever she wants, see other guys, whatever.
You should focus on, I'm glad I didn't get too deep (feelings) for this girl. Also, why is this bothering me so much? I had a girl, who I told her I wasn't interested in more and "gasp", she went and f'd another guy. OMG, you mean, my magic D, is not so powerful to have her infatuated with me above all other men? I mean seriously this is kind of what you are expecting
You should also Focus on what you want out of life, especially for girls. Do you want a LTR or play the field and so on. Different approaches, different girls or girls (at that point in time).
Stop worrying/thinking so much about , Why she did that or this. Who cares. This girl is not worth your time, find more girls and get more experience
Lionsmane8 4mo ago
Buddy.
You are falling for women's head games.
They'll own you at head games because they have no head and you are wasting your head trying to make sense of it all.
She's damaged and hopelessly pair bonded to the previous guy(s).
They got on her the emotional leverage you don't.
They can lie about wanting a relationship or explicitly say they don't want one, and she'll rationalize to herself why she fucked them.
Don't waste your mental and emotional energies on her. I understand not wanting to lie, but If I were you I'd keep her casual while I look for someone more mentally stable.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
Thanks for your comment.
I did keep her casual for a while, but eventually I just felt like I was disrespecting myself by spending so much time with someone who acts like she does.
As for the pairbonding, idk... By the time the romance conversation came up we had fucked four times (which were on three occasions) and seen each other a total of 6 times (3 times we saw each other we did not have sex because we live an hour apart and I drove).
Ex #2 she was only actually sleeping with for like a month, so I'm not really sure if the pairbonding there should've been more than ours. Especially because there was a period of like a month after we had fucked a couple times where we didn't see each other but still talked and didn't "stop seeing each other" before we saw each other again, because she was waiting for me to ask her on a real date it seems.
Also, at this point we've had two instances of seeing each other 2+ months at a time (I broke up with her in April for lying then started seeing her again just for sex in May but of course she seemed to think we were trying to fix things for a relationship). So shouldn't she rationalize and fuck me now since I did give her the option of continuing to have casual sex which she declined?
Edit: just to be clear I’ve fucked her 40 times now.
Lionsmane8 4mo ago
It seems you are the one pair-bonded to her.
If she is casual, she shouldn't be occupying so much of your head space.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
You didn’t answer my question.
Durek_The_Bald 4mo ago
And you know this, of course, because you are her emotional tampon.
you didn't have other options.
Literally begging for pussy, because she wouldn't fuck you otherwise.
Because he's above you in the hierarchy of her options.
Jesus fucking Christ.
From your hamster's perspective.
Except, you already told her you were wanting to get serious. Remember 3 paragraphs ago?
Why do you keep opening your mouth when only unattractive stuff is going to come out?
If what they say isn't congruent with what they do, then don't listen to what they say, and watch what they do. Stop asking her stupid questions for bullshit answers. She's more into him, and you already know it. So why do you keep prodding her for answers she doesn't want to give, and you wouldn't want to hear anyways?
You're fucking with your own head by being inside a woman's frame. And boy, is she taking you for a ride. Honk, honk, hamstermobile coming through.
Then read the sidebar. I don't know where it's at around here, but you'll find it over at r/theredpill or /rmarriedredpill. Read all of it, and then read it again. Then read the literature recommended there too.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
Yet I also flat out told her I only wanted casual at some point while no other guy ever said that, does that not have any relevance?
Yet she broke up with him before because he “wasn’t putting in enough effort” and made out with me at the club when we first met which was 6 days after they’d last seen each other after breaking up with him initially.
Well actually I asked her about this because I wanted answers before I broke up with her… she didn’t just come out telling me all this to vent.
How could she be more into him? Her actions actually show she’s not more into him in my opinion but her claims of casual are what are throwing me off.
Lastly I feel like I’m not begging for pussy, the thing is that these other guys put way more effort in all along. I think if I actually did put effort in I’d have been the one to fuck first but I wasn’t putting effort in aside from a couple messages. The ex #2 got blown off a lot before ever even fucking and still kept trying whereas I didn’t try if she wasn’t being easy for me.
Durek_The_Bald 4mo ago
No, because the minute she pulled the pussy away, you caved in, and offered her to be serious - which only demonstrats to her that you have no options, and you have no frame.
More things she's told you. Look, she had the options of going home to get fucked by you, or going home to get fucked by him. She chose to get fucked by him. That's all you need to know. The rest, everything she's "telling you", everything you're trying to figure out like some Sherlock Holmes, it's all just noise.
We've already been though the listening to what they say stuff. And other guys here have gone through it with you as well.
This is your rationalisation hamster again. Take a step back, be honest with yourself, and I'm sure you too can see the ridiculousness of that claim. She had the option to go home from the club with you or him. She chose him. That's the only clue you need. If you want more, she pulled back the pussy when you wanted something casual. Didn't with him though.
Look, you're basically running around in your head, trying to look for an out, where she somehow "got fooled by his promises", and that, really, you're her number one option, despite every action showing you the opposite.
It's called "self deception", "wishful thinking" if you will, or "hamstering". And it's all brought on by the mind virus which is "oneitis" and "blue pill conditioning".
Seriously, read the sidebar. Nobody here can tell you what you want to hear (that you're her hypergamously preferred option). You take the red pill, or you stick to the blue pill. The choice is yours. If you want to eat the red pill, you read the sidebar, and you lift.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
I’m not sure what you mean, she stopped seeing him before the club and never went home from the club with him. He was still trying to see her while I was making out and grinding on her at the club. Also, he never said he wanted casual.
I didn’t message her for weeks after that. He kept trying when she initially broke up with him.
Durek_The_Bald 4mo ago
Talking about New Years Eve.
Great, so you're both pussy begging betas without option, him just a little less than you.
Look, I've entertained your hamster enough. Just get to work on the sidebar, and lift. Ask again in 3 months if something's still unclear to you.
Don't mean to be a dick, we've all been where you are more or less. But you have to do the work (sidebar and lift) before you can get anything out of what you're asking here.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
I will read the sidebar but I do lift, while this guy is scrawny, small and does not lift. Why does lifting come into play here if this guy doesn’t lift? I lift anyway but I only got back into it recently. Currently I’m at 245 squat 170 bench, 170 lat pulldown 170 cable rows 95 barbell curl, 210 leg extension, etc.
Lionsmane8 4mo ago
He got there before you and from the looks of it, knows how to fuck with her mind.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
Or maybe the fact that he took her on dates from the beginning while I rarely ever did. Not to mention that we went to a hotel for her birthday which she paid for. Tbh you guys just don’t know the story and I recognize that my obsessive questions can’t be answered by people who can’t relate to the way I think. After thinking about this more, my concerns are totally baseless.
Durek_The_Bald 4mo ago
They all say that, but cheers to hoping you'll be an exception.
Good. Keep at it.
Because game matters too. And some of the most glaring examples of how terrible your game is are:
listening to what she says
keeping score over what she said and when, trying to force accountability for incongruences, fishing for the right words out of her mouth a.k.a. negotiating desire
setting a boundary, telling her about it, and then caving when she removes the pussy a.k.a. having no frame , being inside her frame
not having options, and behaving and speaking like you don't have options a.k.a. outcome dependency and oneitis.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
I see what you’re saying but to be clear I asked these things only for my self esteem as I was going to break up with her regardless… it’s not that I wanted to get the answers in order to continue seeing her because I was going to break up with her anyway.
Durek_The_Bald 4mo ago
All set up for you here, @Typo-MAGAshiv
Typo-MAGAshiv 2 4mo ago
NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!
Durek_The_Bald 4mo ago
Yass! That felt great!
Wintergreen 4mo ago
I don’t understand the Spanish Inquisition thing.
Musicgoon78 1 4mo ago
I stopped reading this long, drawn-out bullshit. Summarize my guy...
Look at her actions, don't listen to her words. Go after what you want. If you don't get what you want, move on quickly.
Don't be surprised if she wasn't completely truthful with you. You weren't completely truthful either. Also, women can change their minds at a moments notice.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
What are her actions though? Was she not really casually fucking that guy? Was she casually fucking me? Was she “casually” fucking him because he gave her dates and attention while I didn’t?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4mo ago
You care way too much about labels. She was causally fucking all you and you all lied to her about what she was to all of you for pussy.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
True except I was the one guy who was truthful at some point by saying I only wanted casual, does that not have any effect on her actions? People here are making it seem like she would casually fuck ex #2 without any effort or anything but I think what it is is that he didn’t reject her and she had the power, and he was saying he wanted a relationship so she didn’t feel used and got to go do fun things with him.
However I still wonder if she actually was going to try for a relationship with him, even if long distance, and is just lying when she says it was casual and she didn’t want a relationship.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4mo ago
After the damage was already set in stone
Bro you already lied. Damage done on her relationship goals with you.
It's called plausible deniability. She can have fun while telling everyone they are dating.
Already told you she had the freedom to discard him or upgrade him to s temporary boyfriend to discard later
You have trouble conceptualizating nuanced situations
Wintergreen 4mo ago
When I say I was being truthful I’m referring to THE damage, aka “I only want casual”. Yeah I’m basically thinking that this is what messed it up but others are saying he’s just got all this pull on her when I don’t think so. Thanks for the comment.
pofkaf 4mo ago
Jesus fuck. I can hardly even read this post because it's like a high school girl's fanfiction. "She fucked this guy then she fucked this guy, then she said this about this guy, then this guy did this to her..." and blah blah blah.
Clearly you are not "done" with this girl otherwise you wouldn't be obsessing over her sexual encounters.
Here's the deal. Women fuck men who give them tingles. It doesn't matter how fugly the man is. She will fuck him for as long as he gives her tingles. Or until he cuts her off. That's it.
If she isn't fucking you anymore, it's because you stopped giving her tingles.
Go hit the gym and read the sidebar.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
What kind of tingles? Like emotional support tingles? Keep in mind it took this guy a long time to get a first date with her, it doesn’t seem like she was that into him. That’s what I’m trying to understand.
Also I am done in the sense that I don’t want to see her even if it was casually at this point. I just want answers for my self esteem.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4mo ago
Tingles is a broad spectrum. There is no strict definition. Leaving her on read for 37 hours and finally responding can be tingles too.
There is no strict criteria for tingles. Just anything really that causes her to be emotionally spiked in a way that makes her want to see you
Wintergreen 4mo ago
Like taking her on dates and being proud of her, which I wasn’t and the other guy was. Yeah I think this post just proves my overthinking is dumb.
mattyanon Admin 4mo ago
They always say they don't do casual. She might mean "I won't do casual WITH YOU", but they all do casual. They will swear blind they never do it, they will swear blind they won't do it again....... but they've all done it before and will do again. It's a value-generating lie.
It's funny when they're on video with this shit..... "no casual...... gotta court me...... gotta be a full relationship"..... and then it turns out she got literally laid the night before with another guy on the video. I've been with a girl who I am fucking, while she is explaining to a guy how he has to court a girl and get to know her and commit to her because women don't want something casual. All while having casual sex with me.
This lie is universal. I've seen it soooooooo many times. The girls are so fucking convincing.
haha..... and there we go.
See this is the mistake you are making...... by dangling the carrot of relationship you hope to motivate her to sex with you....... but really it motivates her to DENY sex in the hope of getting that relationship.
My dude...... stop believing any shit that comes out of her mouth on this subject. She wants a relationship and she wants sex. Stop pandering to that shit. If she doesn't want to fuck you, let her happily fuck off. Don't enter into any discussion AT ALL about the future. Be confident enough to know she'll either fuck you or you don't care.
Or maybe she made the whole thing up in her head...... AKA hamstering...... to make it seem more palateable to you at the time. AKA lying.
In womanese speak, "the truth" is a problem to be worked around. It's not something that actually matters. It's a problem to dance around while trying to get the most result possible from her PR brain...... truth just isn't a big factor for women.
So many lies that you can't work out which is truth and which isn;t.
because she wants to
um...... don't fall for "got played by him". Most likely she wanted hot sex, and then wanted a relationship, and when it didn't work out she claims she was played. In reality she wanted sex and got it, then blames the guy. This is standard female behaviour.
more lies for your beneft
No
Your problem is that you are dangling the beta carrot of commitment, which makes you less attractive than a guy who acts like "fuck me or fuck off".
I don't think you can conclude anything at all from anything she says.
By entering into these conversations with her you are inviting her to repeatedly lie and obfuscate to you to try and get what she wants.
Not 100% true, but this is a definite tendency. Alpha fucks, beta bucks.
Not relevant.
Work out what you want, go get it.
Lionsmane8 4mo ago
I recently learned that. I have the tendency of dangling relationships to girls I am really attracted to (higher in the socio-sexual hierarchy) which only has the effect of burning my emotions and setting me up for getting played (which leads me to going full ballistic and burning bridges).
What's the alternative? (Considering that where I am from, these muzzie girls tend to avoid casual sex)
ogrilla99 4mo ago
Victoria's Secret gets some of its highest per capita sales in the Middle East (they have stores even in Saudi Arabia), and Dubai has one of the highest concentrations of plastic surgeons in the world.
IOW, muzzie girls may not be having sex but they sure as hell are behaving as if they want to. I'm not an expert on conservative Islamic culture, but I suspect that, despite the heavy social punishments and ostracism at risk, there's a lot more hanky panky going on than is let on. It may be more secret (house parties instead of open clubs, secret trysts arranged online rather than open PDA on the street, etc) but it happens.
The truth is that American culture is invading everywhere, including the most conservative, closed off societies in the world. So I suspect things are changing even in your neck of the woods, even if it's not yet as public and open and celebrated as it is in the US.
Lionsmane8 4mo ago
Hmm I think you have a false image of muslim countries.
The picture painted in the average westerner's mind is very wrong.
That being said, there is a high rate of virgins (real and "technical"). Amd most girls are angling for a conservative marriage (i.e. male exploitation).
Sex happens, but it happens with a lot of hurdles and very discreetly.
Nothing changed. It's always been like that and all the westernization of society did was introduce western clothing and push women to escape their traditional duties (while retaining traditional privileges).
mattyanon Admin 4mo ago
Relocate?
I dunno man...... what do you want? What's possible to get?
Wintergreen 4mo ago
What I think is being missed by the readers here, probably due to my poor summarization, is that this guy waited a long time to even get a date with her, then kept taking her on dates while I didn’t. Then she still broke up with him for “not putting in enough effort” and chose me, a guy who was making out with her at the club, while he was trying to get her back. I feel like this guy actually gave more relationship vibes and still had to try way more than me initially. Does that make sense?
mattyanon Admin 4mo ago
Yep...... you don't wanna be taking her on endless dates to nowhere.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
Agreed. So I don’t think I’m as beta as my post might come across as.
Also, I just realized that I actually can’t take anything at all she says seriously. I just remembered that she was telling me she was mad at me when I said I only wanted casual, and then at one point down the line I mentioned “when you were mad at me” and she said “I was never mad at you”. Then she said a couple more times at other points, including a couple days ago, that she was mad at me. I do think she was mad at me since she would cry every time she talked about me saying I only wanted casual.
So in conclusion I don’t believe anything she says, she is dumb.
mattyanon Admin 4mo ago
Not remembering previous emotional states is because they are entirely in the one current emotional state, which has always been the same and always will be the same.
This is fairly normal and exactly the kind of woman that's impossible to date.
Theolympicnomad 4mo ago
Damn dude this girl out-gamed the FUCK out of you. Clearly you were giving off signs that you can’t do better than or equal to her in terms of bedding other women
Wintergreen 4mo ago
I think you’re wrong. I think she was just mad at me and spite-fucked the other guy.
Theolympicnomad 4mo ago
Girls don't get mad and "spite-fuck" unless SHE knows that YOU can't do better than or equal to her in terms of bedding other women. Get your game up.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
I disagree, I’ve heard an administrator here say they will sometimes spite-fuck to get back at Chad. I doubt she thinks I can’t do better because she was asking me about some other girl I was following who was following me.
Also you have no idea how ugly the other guy was. I think you’re just being contradictory for fun.
Theolympicnomad 4mo ago
Yes it's true. and in some rare cases yes it can happen. BUT in your specific case NO. Women only have 2 types of men in their lives, men that are chasing them (AKA you) and men that they are chasing (AKA the two guys she fucked).
And on top of that, If a girl really fucked another guy while being with an alpha male (Which rarely ever happens) then she would be the utmost sneaky about it. You found out because she simply doesn't give a fuck if you're in her life or not. Why? Well it goes back to my previous point. Because you're a guy that's chasing her, AKA a beta-male.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
At this point I think you’re just larping and pretending to know what you’re talking about. Now you’re telling me that if a girl fucks another guy and her main guy is an alpha, she would hide it, but with a beta she wouldn’t? If she’s with the beta she wouldn’t respect him and would think she could get away with lying, so she would lie.
There’s literally a story that was posted in TRP about a girl who was married to a Chad and she always accused the Chad of cheating because he was way above her. So she cheated on him with her ex. Then she told him. Your logic is just made up and dumb as hell.
Edit: also, how is she chasing the other guys? She broke up with both of them and then fucked other people before returning to each of them too. She was the one to end things with each of them (the first guy did ghost her in the end but she ghosted him when they were dating before so she wasn’t chasing him). And the first guy came back and told her all about how he’s changed and told her she was the love of his life. The other guy is a beta who waited 4 months to fuck the first time, while she was blowing him off. You clearly don’t know the whole story, which I can’t fault you for, but your pretending to know everything is idiotic.
Theolympicnomad 4mo ago
lol ok dude, good luck with that girl haha.
Wintergreen 4mo ago
I dumped her so I don’t need luck with her, I only need luck with getting answers so that I can keep my self esteem that I’ve gotten.
Btw I struggle with OCD so that’s why my post seems a bit beta…. I didn’t message this stuff to her or talk to her about this stuff to this extent.
Sorry for insulting you but calling me a beta cuck or whatever is fueling my obsession with my questions.