This is for LTR. So I been duped by a girl before who lied to me about her past. So now I try a different strategy, which is acting sexually progressive, saying stuff like “I would only date a woman with experience, or who had her phase and got it out of her system.” And act very liberal minded.
Now the issue is this may get her ti be more transparent, but it gives off extreme beta energy from you, as a man with no self respect. So What is the real solution here, because acting like this can make her lose respect?
And guys can we please not make this into a discussion of I just shouldn’t care about n-count. Please let’s just stick to the main topic of my question. Thank you!
Seagram7 1y ago
This question may be worthy of its own post but I'll ask here: What about the girls that have played the Q&A secessions, told the truth and got dumped? Would they not be more on guard and not stupid enough to tell on themselves after learning their lesson? I knew this girl totally heartbroken and destroyed because she "trusted" her fiancée and told him about the time she had sex with two guys at the same time. He broke the engagement and she even said "that's what I get for being honest." My very first thought was that she wont make that mistake again. How would the next sucker she lines up ever find out?
[deleted] 1y ago
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ogrilla99 1y ago
The difference is in how you direct the conversation.
The wrong way is to emphasize general sociopolitical crap like "I'm an LGBTGIA+++ ally!" or talk about how you like to participate in Take back the night marches. At best, that will make a girl view you as friendzone material, at worst, she thinks you're not even a man.
The right way is to focus on testing / qualifying her to see how progressive she is. For example, "You haven't had a threesome? What kind of boring sheltered life have you lived?! Bah. I can't date someone so plain vanilla."
The difference is that in the former, you're trying to qualify yourself to get in her good graces. In the latter, you're inviting her to qualify herself to you, and show you she's "progressive" enough to be worthy of dating you.
Let's take the two things you mentioned. "I would only date a woman with experience." Why? If the unwritten context is that you're saying that because you think the girl likes it, that's beta behavior. If the unwritten context is that it's because you've had such a fantastic and varied sex life that you'd be bored being with a beginner, then that's better. So how do you turn it around? Easy. "I've dated all kinds and enjoyed the variety. Life's too short to spend time teaching a virgin the ropes. If we bang tonight tell me what I could look forward to."
If a woman tells you she had her fun and now is looking to settle down (first advice: walk away :-) ) ask her what she learned from her ho phase. And whatever she says, imply that that's beginner-level shit and she should stay in her phase a little while longer, that she's not ready to keep a man (any man, but especially you) happy just yet.
Note: the point of this banter is to get her to spill the beans on what she actually did. To get the unfiltered wild and crazy stories out. Don't do it by creating a "safe space" where she feels "comfortable" telling you the truth. That just means you're a nice shoulder to cry on for the rest of her life. Do it by stirring her competitive juices and implying she's a prude until she feels compelled to show you just how much of a slut she really is. Preferably by taking you home that night to get that approval from you that you've been withholding.
AbusiveFather1 1y ago
would she ever tattle on herself like that? that's basically admitting that she's been ran through
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 1y ago
Browse some WAATGM posts from over the years, especially those flaired "dual mating strategy".
They'll say it in dating profiles. They'll say it in posts seeking advice. I've had women say it to me back when I was on the market.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 1y ago
(Would she ever tattle on herself like that)?
oh hell yes. I'm an old guy, on dating apps, I see this ALL the time. In many ways, they girls will show they had their fun, NOW, they are looking to settle down with a nice guy.
I don't eliminate them, I put them in the "for fun" only category. I have to say, generally the saying "sluts are fun", is true. Just week out the "and crazy" ones.
NeoSpartan 1y ago
Stop being gay. Most girls will just straight up tell you if you have the right energy.
Peirce their souls with your stare, truth will spill.
No-Stress-Cat 1y ago
This is the way. You don't even have to stare at them. Just feign kinda sorta interest. She'll spill the beans to try and gauge your reaction.
Her: "I had a gay friend once."
Me: Uh huh.
Her: "I fucked him once."
Me: Oh? Why was that?
Her: "Because we were bored."
Me: Oh. *mental note: n +1*
Musicgoon78 3 1y ago
Sounds like you're not leading the interactions and just accepting answers.
Usually insecure guys worry about what is "beta". The rest of us are getting laid and enjoying our life.
Most girls are going to have a sordid past. Do you want the truth or to live in ignorance?
It's very possible to mix the right amount of comfort with Dominance. Do you want to be a man who takes action or spends his time overthinking everything and butthurt. Most forgettable men will wallow in self pity. They are the majority. Choose to be the exception.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1y ago
My policy is to use non judgement to spill as many beans as I can get out of them until they say something that eliminates them from ever being an LTR candidate and then i keep using as recreational use
I suppose preferred LTR candidates would just never spill too bad of beans no matter how much encouragement and trickle truths there could be (ideally because she has nothing, not because she's devious)
Musicgoon78 3 1y ago
I totally agree with this. I will state that for my preference, a girl has to be loyal but very slutty. I've come to accept that that level of deviance comes from experience. Of course this all boils down to preference and not really a wrong or right answer.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1y ago
Makes sense to me
First-light 1 1y ago
If you want a conversation to be natural and open its hard to script it. I think timing can help here. Time it to when she is feeling open, happy and trusting already. The earlier you can get it in the better.
If you are checking a girl out prior to making a move on her, this can be an ideal time or as soon as the opportunity arises early in a relationship. After that she is invested. She doesn't want to blow this one.
Women like to conform -you know how all the girls in the girl gang all like the same thing and profess the same values (while secretly they hate each other sometimes). One of my daughters won't pack a meat sandwich if she is going to train with her closest local sporting rival who is a vegetarian. Yet take her up the woods with her friend who is another country girl and the girls are all "What can we kill, gut, skin and cook today?". If she is like that with a rival (who she has beaten at every major clash in the last couple of years and so has no reason to act submissive to), how much more would she lie about who she really was to a man? The further you go in a relationship the more she will know you actually don't like sluts just from other things you say and will aim to conform.
This is why it is probably not ideal to say "I like sexually experienced women" because you are not coming as who you are and once she realises this, she will be very guarded and this will spill over into other areas. Forming a LTR is an act of diplomacy. You have to also show you are here for fair play and will treat the other well, while within the rules of fair play protecting your own interests. I would get the questions in before she has shaped a view of your values, when she just knows you are likeable and trustworthy.
In some other cultures it is common to check a girl out before approaching her by getting your pals to talk to her pals. This might pay dividends if you could do it.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1y ago
No ...
You express no judgement and if you respond at all you say gay ass shit like
"Oh yeah i could see that"
"I mean you got to live a little some times"
"That sounds like it was a fun night/adventurous" etc
Like @NeoSpartan said, when men "just get jt" women will freely spill the beans
You don't need to be a progressive sex-positive slut cheerleader to get info out of a woman. That's gay ass stupid shit
You need to "just get it" which you don't atm
Hugo_The_Great 1y ago
Look, idk if there's a way to get them to spit out the truth in a short time frame without coming off as desperate/weak. I don't think there is. Unless you want to share some of the raunchy shit you've done yourself, but that's shooting yourself in the foot in a variety of ways imo.
My (successful) approach has been to come off as nonjudgmental, open-minded and chill. Over the series of a couple of months, they will slowly trickle truth to you until you know enough.
One thing you can do to stimulate the conversation in that direction is when in their bedroom ask 'So where do you hide your sex toys' in a joking manner.
I remember one convo in particular, where I asked about sex toys, she told me she lost her satisfier while moving, I asked if she had other toys, she told me about a dildo, I said is it a 20-inch black mamba, she chuckled because it actually was, told me she got it from a fraternity as a birthday present (red flag), I said (jokingly) well maybe you shouldn't have fucked that entire fraternity, and before she could filter her speech she already said 'No just 4 of them' (Last part of the sentence very quiet because on some level she realized she fucked up).
Or by being curious in general about first time sex experiences. Had a girl tell me she was not on contraception while we had fucked raw already. I was like wtf why not are you insane? Told me she wanted to see what not being on contraception was like. I asked her why? Tells me she's been on birth control since 15. I'm like ok, why that early? Trickle truths to me she lost her virginity to and fucked for a while with a 18 yo guy.
Also had numerous girls tell me they fucked in bathrooms on multiple occasions with guys they met 5 min previously etc. All sorts of things you'd never want to hear. Obviously when you hear these kinds of things you should know they're only recreational use.
I'm sort of a self-proclaimed guru of discovering these kinds of red flags. There's not really a 'method' to do it other than the correct mindset and being 'curious', depends on the girl/situation also which way to play it. I'd estimate a small minority of young women (never dated 24+) go out of their way to overtly lie and deceive. A majority will tell you in detail the shit they've done, actually. Some will try to downplay certain aspects, and the ones that did I figured out through other mutual connections. If you're Machiavellian yourself, most women will not be able to deceive you anyway.
I think women start lying about body count, sexual experience once they become older and have been dumped over this shit, only then they understand on a conscious level that men despise these things. They will mostly lie to some beta to get him to wife her up just before she splats into the wall.
Lone_Ranger 3 1y ago
this response from Hugo is spot on.
You can tell. You just need to learn to listen. Young women will tell more, it takes ages for women to learn that we are not impressed by high body counts.
You don't need any special tools to find out -they will tell you.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 1y ago
(I think women start lying about body count, sexual experience once they become older and have been dumped over this shit, only then they understand on a conscious level that men despise these things)
They learn, like, we were great together, why wouldn't he commit more to me? Why wouldn't he let me move in? Why wouldn't he give me a ring?
They decide to not share as much (past info) for the next guy
Lone_Ranger 3 1y ago
Sluts always tell themselves. You don't need some special technique to get them to spill the beans.
You know why they always tell on themselves?
because they are so proud of the high n count - they think its means that they are popular and desirable. They see it as validation and attention. That is one reason why they will tell you - the other reason is to manipulate you. The first thing a woman does when she is interested in a man is start trying to manipulate him - and the big weakness of men is jealousy. Women don't feel sexual jealousy to the same degree that men do (for biological reasons). This is especially true of retroactive jealousy (look it up). So a woman will throw this into the mix really early in a relationship to see if she can hurt your ego or damage your frame in some way. She might talk in code, like saying things like 'Oh I used to be quite wild' or 'that was a crazy trip' or 'that summer was chaos'. She is trying to find some way to tell you about all the cock she has had.
Sluts will very quickly tell you that they are sluts because they can't keep their mouths shut. They will boast about the kilometers of cock that they have had.
All you have to do is sit back and listen.
Musicgoon78 3 1y ago
I have a theory. It's just the other side of the coin where women don't understand how men are attracted and vice versa. I guy sends out an instant dick pic because he thinks women are visually stimulated by genetalia. He doesn't understand that this isn't the case because he would like for the woman to do that to him in a playful way.
The same with women. A guy with a high notch count is seen as wantable by many women. So hypergamy kicks in and tingles ensue. She doesn't realize that men don't think like that and a high notch count and a sordid past is a deterrent for us.
Lone_Ranger 3 1y ago
you say
"The same with women. A guy with a high notch count is seen as wantable by MANY women."
I think its ALL women.
All women want playas. They say they don't, but you just have to observe what they do and ignore what they say. They ONLY want playas. The ultimate insult a woman can hurl at a man is 'incel'. An incel is the opposite of a playa. he's a guy that cannot get sex.
Women want James Bond. JB can get sex whenever he wants, with whichever woman he wants. That is the man that women want. Because the guy with the very high BC is the guy with the most power to validate her. The reasoning goes like this - if a man has shagged hundreds of women, and could go on to shag a thousand more, BUT he picks me, then I am the special one. I am the princess.
If a man has zero or very low body count, this gives the woman the ick - because she feels that she is low value, she has been chosen by a guy that has very few options. This means she is low value. This is why women are not interested in nice guys.
Your analogy is absolutely spot on. Women are confusing what they find desirable in a man (high body count) and think that we might find that desirable in a woman. The truth is, we don't for LTRs.
Let's be honest - men have their own 'dual mating strategy'. We want good mothers for LTRs, because we care about our future offspring.
But on a night out, with a belly full of wine, we prefer sluts. This is why slut signalling is such a great strategy for women on a night out. If I am out on the prowl, and I spot two women at the bar, one is a slut (tattoos, crop top, skin on display) and the other is not, i will always go for the slut, even if the other girl is much better looking.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 1y ago
As others have said, act non-judgemental, actually pro-sexual. Especially after sex, this is when they are most open to talk about it. After some drinking, of course helps.
You have to act cool about it, sex positive. They really want to talk about it, they want you to actually be cool with it so that "it won't be an issue in future". Also, yes, many girls actually think they are cool or hot for letting a lot of guys F them. Like, I must be hot? No, you were hot enough to F, that's about it. They don't get it. They think guys are like them.
A girls view, I wouldn't let an ugly guy F me, that's gross. Unless he's rich/famous of course.
A guys view, she's not pretty, she's fat, but I need to bust a nut, she'll do.
A woman's hamster is powerful.
As mentioned by others, the girls who've been burned by this will be the toughest to break. If guys would not explain why they won't LTR a girl ,etc with a non-acceptable sexual history it would make it easier for the rest of us. Once a girl goes through that or knows of a GF who did, they learn. Never explain it to a girl.
Once she's let you know her past is not acceptable to you, don't show it, enjoy it. Plate her or slowly disengage, whatever you want, but don't explain why.
Lone_Ranger 3 1y ago
you're so right.
Women have a biological need for male validation - its in human evolution. They are the weaker of the species, and they would have died without male attention. So, the modern woman thinks that lots of men fucking her puts her higher in the rankings of females in the cave.
They are dead wrong - no man wants to LTR a slut.
EurasianChad 1 1y ago
Better off having a non-judgemental vibe towards her sexual past.
That way she feels she can he herself around you & you find out, if it matters to you.
MrSupreme 1y ago
You wanna know about her past,just ask her,get her to open up and feel comfortable around you. You shouldn't put up a show about it, get some skills.
Lone_Ranger 3 1y ago
You wont' need to ask her. She'll tell you as soon as she can in as much detail as she can. They can't keep their mouths shut.