Obviously, you cannot date women above your own SMV (for long).
I think that if you LTR 2 or even 3 points down, she will be very loyal and treat you like a king, but you'll probably want to have something hotter on the side. For plates this can be great as it's very low maintenance, and you can probably spin her a long time.
On the other hand, if you LTR someone who is at the same level or slightly below, she'll never respect you as much and be more prone to branch swing, but when things are good, you will have the best time. If she's a plate, she will ask for commitment relatively soonish, and it probably won't last long anyway.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
you can't date women above your SMV for long?? What crack are you smoking. All of my friends have LTRs / wives that are way above their own SMVs.
Hugo_The_Great 2y ago
No. Women date up and across social hierarchies, not down.
Maybe these women look better than your friends physically (I should've used RMV instead of SMV perhaps), but your friends have intelligence/wit/game/confidence/status/money to compensate for their lack of great looks.
Exception to this rule is that they are just a temporary boyfriend and she's fishing for someone better (and the relationship is shit).
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
Also, you are making the most basic and fundamental of all mistakes when you say that 'women date up and across'.
You are talking about the market for sexual exchange. For that market, women date up, because they can. When it comes to marriage, they have to date down and men date up. If I go to an event where the guys brings their wives, I promise you the average wife is waaaaaaay hotter than the average dude.
Women control access to hook ups, men control access to marriage.
Hugo_The_Great 2y ago
I think for hookups, women exclusively go for the highest quality Chad they can get to have sex with them. Usually 1-2 pts above their SMV.
In terms of relationships, I don't think women 'marry down' as you put it. While it's true men control access to relationships, the people I see in relationships usually have very similar RMV and are much more equal than short term flings. Sure, the wife can be better looking than her husband, but looks are not the most important factor for determining male value in long-term relationship, as opposed to short-term.
Like I said, the husband always has other attributes to compensate for his looks, like money, status, confidence, wit etc.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
respectfully, I think you're wrong on this.
For hookups, there is no limit to the pts above them women will go. Damn it, I've seen 4s women hooking up with 10s. I think its very difficult to smash hook ups that are only 1 or 2 points below you in SMV. We used to call it 'mouse hunting' in uni. It's not 1 or 2 points above their SMV.... here's a thought experiment - imagine Brad Pitt in his hey day, comes back to the hotel after a shoot, is a bit tired, can't be bothered to go out, so he just asks the girl at the reception at his hotel (who is a 5) = "Hey sweetcheeks - wanna come up to my room?" Is this women going to think "Well, I'm a 5 and he's a 10, so theres no way I should be banging him" .... No...those panties are coming off. Probably in the elevator.
In terms of 'marrying down' (in SMV) that's what ALL women do.
Think about it Hugo - when a man is offering marriage, he is offering what ALL women want, and find very difficult to get. Hence, you can easily marry far above your SMV when you are marrying.
When a women is offering a no-strings hook up, she is offering what ALL men want, so she can easily shag up the hierarchy. Seriously, this is what is happening.
If you actually read research about the market for sexual exchange, you will see that young men are reporting that they are getting zero sex. And young women are reporting that they get lots of sex. So its kind of obvious what is happening - the sex is happening with 'super shaggers'. The only men that are getting action are the chads. The top 5% of young men are doing all the shagging.
An example of a Super Shagger would be someone like Russel Brand, who has an N count of about 1500 to 2000. He is an extreme version, but a more pedestrian super shagger would be someone that devotes their life to slut hunting and has a body count of about 300-400. He will only be able to get these high numbers by shaggin well below him in the SMV value. A super shagger can't be hanging around doing week long texting etc, going on dates and all that beta shit. A super shagger approaches women that are WELL below his value - if he is a 10, he is going to be approaching 5s . He doesn't even need good game - the deal is implicit.
The deal is like this - "I'm very far above you in SMV, you can come home with now, and we will bang, but I'm not going to call you in the morning, we're not going to be friends. There it is...deal or no deal?"
If a 5 has taken the trouble to get all dolled up, and she is out on the town, she is taking the deal. This is what she wants. She will never get the chance to have an LTR with a 10. She is lucky this guy is even talking to her. She will take the deal, trust me.
That is what the market for SMV looks like, at least that is my experience of it in the UK. The male super shaggers are racking up numbers like 300-400 and they are all shagging women well below them in SMV, those women have numbers like 30 or so by the time they get to 25 years old.
Hugo_The_Great 2y ago
I get your point about how marriage is all women want, like hook-ups are all men want. Therefore, it makes sense that women would marry down, just like men fuck down.
But marriage is only what all women want, if it's with the right guy. (Highly educated women with financial independence rather stay single & get cats than marry down). I agree, high SMV guys will fuck anything. But women will not marry just anybody. (Unless they're old & broke)
I think your perception is warped in regard to male and female RMV. I'll give you that women can marry down 1 point. But most marry at least equal or up. And FYI, there are a lot of moronic men that want marriage as well, that's where your theory falls apart.
In a world where every many is completely RP, you would be absolutely right though.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
There are several holes in your arguments!
You say "marriage is all women want". That used to be the case. What modern women want is to 'find themselves and be independent and THEN settle down' (they want to fuck around for 15 years and get railed by 50+ chads, and then settle down with beta bucks).
You say that "I'll give you that women can marry down 1 point. But most marry at least equal or up" That is clearly not the case. Go to a party of married people and you will clearly see what is going on. The wives are much much better looking than the guys. When I go to parties the women are like 10s and the men are 5s or lower. It's totally standard to see short, fat and bald guys with smoking hot wives. This is because the market for marriage is TOTALLY different than the market for hook ups. It's a buyers market, and the men control it.
Kevin Samuel summarised it well 'Women control access to sex, men control access to relationships'.
The result of this is that men get left on the shelf in their teens and 20s, and women get left on the shelf after their 30s.
Hugo_The_Great 2y ago
1) We actually agree here, I just didn't nuance my point enough. They want fun initially. Marriage ($$) later. 2) Again, you are making it seems like these smoke shows are marrying average dudes. Maybe they are average looking, but I'm assuming they are not working as mail men, right? But yeah, buyer's market, men control it, that's fair. So compared to short term relationships, men can set a much higher asking price. 3) Agreed
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
Ahhh, you did say SMV. Which I take to mean Sexual Market Value.
I would say that if you are a man above 30, and you are fucking a woman with an inferior SMV than you, you are doing it all wrong.
"your friends have intelligence/wit/game/confidence/status/money"
Money. Just money. That's it. That's all they seem to need.
coolsocks00 1 2y ago
There isnt much use in overthinking this stuff. Some things may tend to be true, but there's so many exceptions that you have to judge on a case by case basis.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2y ago
Women generally shoot 1-2 points higher than themselves for SMV (women tend to auto-reject when it's 3+ because they know they'd just be pimp and dumps)
That being said you might think you're a 7 based on objective standards and what other people think, but she still might think you're an 8.5, so as @coolsocks00 said, it's more nuanced than that and you should really just case by case
nicknack 2y ago
Only some (decent) women auto reject guys way above their league. Most women text him to come over and proceed suck him off, or invite him to threesome her and her friend.
I don’t even personally remember a girl below my level rejecting me. It’s usually skip the date straight to sex even.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2y ago
OP asked about LTRs, this point about strait to sex supports that they are just pump and dumps if SMV gap is too big
nicknack 2y ago
They still expect a relationship though. They think giving their pussy is enough to get an LTR from superChad, as thats been enough for all the other guys to try to ltr her.
They fuck superChad right away because she doesn’t put up arbitrary rules for him. The same way we will spend that extra dollar when we have a chance with superstacy
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2y ago
Perhaps we have different experiences, when I've seen girls get approached way out of their league at night game they reject or act bitchy
BuckMulligan 2y ago
As everyone else has said, it's case by case. But I think you're also assuming your SMV is static, as is hers, and it isn't. It naturally fluctuates over time. Worried it's low? More gym, more hobbies, more time on your career, more time with friends, etc can all bump it up a bit. 1-2 points above the woman you want to LTR is recommended. But that's the easy part. Maintaining that gap is where damn near every guy loses it.