This questions is moreso for the older, experienced guys. Give it to me straight. Should I get married?
I know that TRP is generally skeptical of marriage. I've read tons of material on TRP and other forums. I've watches countless videos about the benefits of marriage for men. I've asked many guys that I personally know. Overall I've received a mixed bag of opinions; some guys have been happily married for a long time, others got divorced and now feel jaded, and a few enjoy staying single.
I'm 28 years old. I've studied TRP for a long time and believe that I've mastered most aspects of it. I've banged my fair share of women. I've spun multiple plates at once, and I've jumped into a few LTRs. I eat well and stay fit. At such a young age I've managed to escape the W2 grind and have been building a business. I'm a homeowner. I hold leadership roles within my community. And so on.
It would be nice to have somebody to help around the house, share expenses, and support my endeavors. I'm also open to having kids someday, and I believe that marriage is the best institution for raising children, so I'd be interested in marrying a woman with whom I want to raise a family with. (The more I consider it, the more I think that raising a child is man's greatest challenge and accomplishment.)
I am currently in an LTR. We've been together for over a year, but knew each other for a few years prior. She is 25. Without getting deep into the weeds, our relationship is about as good as it gets. I've done a terrific job of maintaining frame and leading her. As such, she has been an incredible girlfriend so far.
Lately, quite a few people within our circle have gotten married and starting popping out babies. That has caused us to think about our future. We've had some intense conversations about the subject, and we've both been very mature and patient with each other while also stating our intentions and concerns.
In short, if I decide to get married, it will be with her. However, the concept of marriage doesn't seem to appealing to me. So I'm just trying to gather as much info/experience as I can before I make a decision.
I told her that I need more time to make a decision (like half a year). She seemed very understanding of that, and assured me that she isn't in a rush and doesn't want me to feel pressured. I also told her that we need to work on three things before I decide to propose.
1) Finances. We are both financially secure and have been pretty open about our situations. I feel like I need to understand her spending habits a little more specifically, and I would also like to help her with investing.
2) We need to make an effort to "live together" more often. We currently live in separate apartments. It would be nice to literally sleep with each other more often and generally spend more mundane time together to see if our lifestyles are compatible.
3) I want to build a deeper relationship with her father. She adores her dad. They have a great relationship. Her parents have been married for a long time. Her parents seem to like me, but I haven't spent much time alone with her dad, but I'd like to before I propose.
I also told her that if I propose, we must sign a pre-nup before we get hitched. No if and or buts. She seemed accepting and willing.
With all of that in mind, the thought of getting married has been swirling around my brain lately. I'm processing it by asking other men about it. So here I am. Share your thoughts below.
Mein_Tarnaccount 1y ago
EurasianChad 1 1y ago
What benefit does marriage have over long term relationship for the man?
Divorce, you lose half your assets without prenup in America, and you now have to live with this girl.
Marriage in my eyes only benefits the woman. Live by your own standards for life and not society's.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
"Divorce, you lose half your assets without prenup in America,"
I wish this misinformation would stop.
You don't lose 'half your assets'. Half would mean 50%. A guy earning a decent salary with 2 kids will lose about 200% to 900% of his assets. If you don't understand the maths of a negative net present value income stream, then I don't think you should be getting married.
Durek_The_Bald 1y ago
1) Vet the law.
As long as there's no alimony, and everything you bring into the marriage is yours in the event of divorce, you can bounce back from a 50/50 split of assets made during the marriage. To avoid anything less than a 50/50 split of custody, it's important that she works full-time as well. No stay-at-home freeloaders.
Research the law and common practices where you live. If they're hostile to fathers and husbands, the conversation ends there.
2) Vet yourself.
You might be financially protected, but there's also the case of handling a divorce emotionally. You can't be needy, and you must retain the will to walk away, and be secure in the knowledge that you can always get other (better) women.
3) Vet the woman. This takes years.
pofkaf 1 1y ago
Good points. Appreciated.
To your first point. Yes while talking with my LTR, I clearly stated that we must sign a pre-nup that includes me keeping my current house and all profits/assets of my business that I'm currently building. Among other things. No pre-nup, no marriage. She actually seemed very supportive of that.
Second point, noted.
Third point, definitely. I think I've done a decent job of vetting her. I've known her for a few years and we started dating during the past year plus. There more work to do in terms of vetting, as I outlined in my OP, but I'm already confident in my choice to pursue a relationship with her.
mattyanon Admin 1y ago
She PRETENDS to be supportive of that, but ask yourself this....... whose idea was it? Did she bring this up? Or did she sense it's non-negotiable from you and switch to immediately supporting something that she knows is non-negotiable?
Relationship, sure.
But marriage? Dude, don't do it. Prenups get thrown out, and even when they don't they get fought over (at your expense). You are literally paying her to leave. If there is no financial upside to all this, why does she want to bother? Because she knows it BENEFITS HER. And that benefit comes to you. Court ordered by the state.
Why can't she trust you to be loyal and do right by her? Why involve the government? And don't tell me "it's romantic"........ there is nothing about a legally-backed court-ordered lawyer-benefiting one-sided providership contract.
Save yourself.
DO NOT MARRY
mattyanon Admin 1y ago
Right.
It isn't.
Ok, imagine two scenarios from the female perspective.
Scenario A: she's with a guy, things are harder than she thought they'd be. Together they might just pull through. If she leaves she'll be worse off.
Scenario B: she's with a guy, things are harder than she thought they'd be. Together they might just pull through. If she leaves she'll get a house, a car, alimony, a payout, cash and prizes.
Obviously the latter is married. She is literally offered cash.... YOUR CASH...... in exchange for leaving. You are offering her money to leave.
You can be as redpilled as you like, but how are you going to stop her realizing one day that she already has your cash and doesn't need to do a damned thing for you in order to get it? In fact better than that.... she can fuck someone else, leave, take your money (court ordered), and carry on fucking this other guy.
Marriage is fucking dire. Don't do it. It fails 60% of the time. The remaining 40% are mostly failures but "I'm sticking with her so she doesn't take my house".
Do not offer the mother of your children money to break up the family home.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
This guys speaks wisdom. Sounds like he has experience!!!
There are sooooooo many misconceptions about divorce. Esp about pre-nups are what you are going to get as a man when your wife divorce rapes you. Most guys are truly deluded.
Mark Twain says it best "It's easier to fool a man that to convince him that he has been fooled"
Most men don't know what lies ahead of them in the divorce courts when they get married, because THEY DON'T WANT TO KNOW.
mattyanon Admin 1y ago
Not directly...... I saw the marriage trap and avoided it. Before TRP I saw the inconsistency of women's voice vs actions. I never understood what was going on, but the patterns were clear as day in all my dating. I gave up exclusivity and turned to TRP instead. My relationships have never been better.
Except where the woman can't afford to, in which case the man will be paying both sides.
This is good to know, I didn't know this.
Yeah, this is true. it's a kind of willful ignorance...... "this girl is special and would never do that to me".
mattyanon Admin 1y ago
PS don't say "prenup". They get thrown out by the courts. The only cast iron prenup is not to get married.
EurasianChad 1 1y ago
Are those types of agreements not adhered to or superceded by some sort of law? I don't live in the west but that sounds fucked. Its as if they are purposely trying to make men take the full burden despite who's fault it is.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
Pre-nups are FANTASTIC...for lawers! It's the number one earner for a divorce lawyer.
Here's how it works - the guy thinks that he is going to be ok in a divorce, so he gets married. Then he gets divorced. He pulls out the pre-nup and his lawyer presents to his wifes lawyer.
The wife's lawyer gets back to him and says that she was 'pressured' into signing and wants 80% of the assets and $9k a month for the next 20 years.
The mans lawyer says 'fuck that, lets go to trial'.
Its the trial that makes the money. My lawyer only charged £290 per hour for mediation. But he charged £5k per day plus expenses (assistant) for trial. And that was one of the cheaper ones that I could find. If both parties can agree, and keep it out of the courts, the lawyers only make about £20k each side. Once you go to trial, its almost unlimited. Some divorce hearings go on for years. And the number 1 reason for going to trial? To fight the pre-nup.
It's the pre-nup that gives you the false security of getting in to a marriage in the first place. And its the pre-nup that drags you into the courts.
Trust me - prenups are totall garbage. Do not bother.
TLDR: Prenups don't work. If you are thinking about a prenup, then you are not understanding what is going on.
EurasianChad 1 1y ago
Thanks for clarifying, I had no idea.
It just boils down to my same point though, why involve the government in a social construct that only benefits the woman?
Regardless, I believe the best way for a man who is headstrong on commitment to 1 woman and a family is to never marry & keep things as LTR, as the same things can be done just without all these possible problems down the line.
mattyanon Admin 1y ago
The law says agreements can be thrown out if they are deemed unfair. Unfair might be "she said she felt pressured" or "there wasn't enough time before the marriage to fully agree to the terms". That period might include the whole engagement term. They might throw the agreement out if it makes it cheaper for the state to compel the man to pay more.
It is fucked, but so is the rest of the marriage industry.
Yes, that's exactly what it is.
EurasianChad 1 1y ago
If thats the case, I suggest you boys settle into SE asian countries. English is widely spoken, cost of living is cheaper, you can live like a king if you make expat wages, and the women are in general more submissive & hold traditional values.
mattyanon Admin 1y ago
.... for now.
Fast forward 20 years and the same thing will happen: marriage laws rewritten to favour women, men financially eviscerated to benefit lawyers, etc.
EurasianChad 1 1y ago
Yeah theres definitely a promiscuous crowd but hey, I benefit off that shit. No one doing only fans yet though. Maybe ill be the first pimp, we'll see.
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EurasianChad 1 1y ago
I won't say exactly for security reasons, but I grew up in the highest socioeconomic class in my country which would be upper-middle class in the USA, but parents made sure to not spoil me & only provide for survival needs and education, so everything I have is a direct result of my own work. Inheriting money just won't make me satisfied with myself. Most people don't speak english to this degree but I've been fortunate & blessed enough to be given the best education in my country.
I appreciate the compliment and I have lived in europe and the USA previously.
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EurasianChad 1 1y ago
I'm only 25 my dude
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Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
Forget about the prenup. Its a fools errand. Once you have kids, it doesn't matter.
The only point of getting married is to have kids. That's it. You say that you are open to having kids....if you're not sure, then don't get married.
You sound level headed and your thinking about all the right angles. But...you guys are not even living together?? You need to be living together for a while before you get married.
There's no getting around it - marriage is risky. About 50% of them fail, and it will be messy, painful and expensive if it fails. If there are kids involved, it could ruin your life. Having been divorced, I can tell you this - forget about the prenup. Forget it. It will not change anything.
What is your net worth right now?
[deleted] 1y ago
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EurasianChad 1 1y ago
Exactly. All marriage does is involve the government in your relationship. There is no point or benefit choosing marriage over LTR as a man.
mattyanon Admin 1y ago
It's clear to anyone with half a brain that marriage is a onesided provideship contract designed to benefit only women and lawyers.
Diabs 1y ago
Having kids with and marrying is the same result financially if you seperate in my country. Kids are worth the risk. you're probably more than qualified to make the decision you know the girl better than us and if she is worth it.
mattyanon Admin 1y ago
Ok, another reply.
I think you're looking for ways to get married safely.
Your question isn't honest. You are asking "should I get married", but what you really want is to find a way to do it. You're hoping that with the right prenup and the right arrangement and the "right girl", you can make marriage work.
You can't. Everything is stacked against you and designed to financially cripple you once you agree to the shit show that is modern marriage.
Good luck.