I eventually want a family. I am fortunate to come from a 2 parent household and witnessed how powerful a household with 2 loving parents can be. My parents have provided us an amazing life despite starting from extremely low SES, and I’d love to do the same for my kids and build generational wealth.
Non-negotiable:
healthy relationship with father parents who aren’t divorced morality/religion/traditional values attitude
By attitude I mean she has to be positive, willing to listen, likes to please, and respects herself.
Negotiable things are traits that I thought were important in previous relationships but turned out they were just blinding me from reality. These include:
Cooking (can be learned) Organization/planning/cleaning Style Mutual interests Fitness (I’ve had girls who started going to the gym after dating me and improved their life dramatically - and in my experience girls obsessed with the gym have some mental health issues they’re masking. I wouldn’t date anyone who isn’t healthy, but I’m putting this here as it can often blind me to other aspects of a girl.)
I’m definitely missing a lot from both lists. Feel free to counter anything I’ve listed and add your own. Would love to hear how your experiences have shaped your lists as well.
dongking 1y ago
One big Non-negotiable for me is being a whore for social media. Posting loads of photos and videos for male attention, glued to phone, inflated self-esteem and dopamine receptors ruined etc.
I can't see a bitch ever recovering from that shit.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
agreed - the only issue is just how prevalent that shit is. When I met my (now) wife, we both agreed that SM was stupid. That was back in 2013. Without any pressure, we both committed 'facebook suicide' and deleted Instagram and any and all social media. We're both better off.
The issue is that SM is addictive for females, because it provides instant validation and dopamine. If a woman posts something thoughtful about politics or art, she gets 1 or 2 likes. If she posts a picture of herself, perhaps an over the shoulder mirror selfie, in some tight yoga pants she will get 100s of likes. So they become more and more retarded and narcissistic. The only solution is no social media.
Impressive-Cricket-8 1y ago
I was about to write exactly that. Too much instashit, too little investment in the relationship.
There are many other things, of course, but as @Lone_Ranger said: "screen for behaviours not skills". And friends - a group of bad friends will eventually drag her down.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
that is so true about her group of friends. You are the average of the 5 people you spend most time with. You are more influenced by your friends that you realise.
My ex-wife was in a friend group of 5 women. In the end, all of them were divorced except her. They used to meet up and talk about how much better their lives were now that they were divorced - they were free to go to paris for the weekend to get their hair cut and spend thousands on new hand bags without any nasty man to tell them that what to do (not joking, this is real life). It was a matter of time before my ex-wife filed for divorce.
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Notorious 1y ago
@Lone_Ranger get in here, look forward to hearing your wisdom
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Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
I would say, screen for behaviours not skills. Example, cooking can be learnt.
My non-negotiables would be:
She is polite (to me and others) She listens to people (esp me) She has 'grown up'...ie she behaves like an adult, not a child (most women behave like kids) She is calm (does not have an anger problem) She comes from a good home (2 parent household) She has good relations with her parents She doesn't have debt (its not about the money, its about impulse control) She is not a pig (her apartment is clean) She is punctual (lateness is a real red flag, in men and women) She doesn't swear / smoke / drink heavily
I would much rather these behaviours and she was ok looking rather than a 10 out of 10 hottie that had poor behaviours. Tbh, I think men that marry poorly behaved 10s get what they deserve. And the very worst female behaviour I have ever seen has come from 10s. They behave that way because they can.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
I forgot to add some other behaviours
GodLuminous 1y ago
The because they can part. Absolutely accurate.
Most of the victims from these women become cucks, literally. It's so fucking sad.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
If you marry a slut, I think deep down you want to be a cuck, probably without realising it.
GodLuminous 1y ago
I sorta kinda agree, but then again I attribute slut acceptance to beta males.
Men that are insecure or know they're failing at life.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
It's not just betas that are guilty of slut acceptance. Alphas only pay attention to sluts. Just to to the average bar / club at the weekend. Only the sluts are getting their drinks paid.
We have to be honest here - the women are responding to incentives that men create. We only swipe on sluts. We only buy drinks for sluts. We only invite sluts onto our yachts. Women are sluts because the system rewards sluts.
Back in the old days, sluts were outcasts. They were literal outcasts. They had to leave town, and go and live by the docks, sucking of sailors for pennies. Now we celebrate them and marry them.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
The one thing that guys most often get wrong is that they do not screen properly for mental health issues. Women that are 'hot but a bit nuts' are often very popular with young men. This is a terrible strategy.
a) she will divorce you b) she will pass on her mental health issues to your children.
The most important thing that you can pass on to your children is A1 mental health. DO NOT DATE OR MARRY CRAY CRAY.
Goingthedistance 1y ago
Can someone please frame this and hang on their wall already?
Diabs 1y ago
For me I have found the most important things in the mother of your child don't get mentioned all that often having a ltr and a child myself I find through experience these are the things I've come to value most in my ltr
how does she look and how do you want your kids to look shape height ect..
maternal instincts allot of the time you can tell weather a woman will make a good mother before she has children
Loyalty is very important to me at the earliest stages of a relationship listen to how much she does or doesn't value loyalty because if she has a bad history of cheating or seems morally poor then don't even bother because that's who your child will be also
If you have these main points in your little family at home allot of the other smaller things can be worked out with time and some good guidance from a man.
EurasianChad 1 1y ago
I agree with all of your points, some things I'd add with reasons:
Overly tattood - shows impulsivity which may lead to promiscuous behaviour/cheating. Also, I'm not gonna bring heavily tattoo'd women with me to a business meeting where higher status individuals will judge me as someone who makes poor choices, hence leading to a disruption or termination of the business relationship.
Cheating on a previous LTR, regardless of how beta he was. Women with traditional or conservative values find this to be extremely immoral, and wouldn't do it.
Any sort of drug addiction or substance abuse disorder. I think that's self explanatory.
Positive outlook on life. Avoid the unhappy and unlucky as robert greene says. This is not only an LTR non negotiable but a non-negotiable for friendships.
Any sort of sex work/onlyfans/strip club work. No promiscuous women with unbelievable high body counts.
Single mothers. I refuse to take care or build a father relationship with any child that is not of my blood.
To add as a final one: Party girls or women who are heavily into the clubbing scene. Promoters, etc. Environment where promiscuity and degeneracy run rampant, obvious red flag.
nicknack 1y ago
Any tattoos. Tattoos are self harm / self destruction, and selfish. They’re putting themselves before the wants of their parents, society and future husband by getting tatted. A tatted women will not be a good wife, yet alone a good mother.
Diabs 1y ago
Anyone who has been with allot of women knows that a tat or two doesn't really make a difference hard lines on things like this is a good indicator of a LARPer
coolsocks00 1 1y ago
You mean half the comments section?
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nicknack 1y ago
You summed it up better than me. I would only add that it’s probably less than 1/100000.
I know I struck a nerve when some guy starts resorting to the “you get to bitches” argument. Sounds like he’s dating one of these tatted up streetwalkers, or his mother is one.
Diabs 1y ago
Not the case I just haven't found it to be a major factor in a girl's personality myself it's not that high on my list of red flags. I agree that no tattoos is ideal and heavily tatted bitches are clearly messed up. Awalt though just because a girl has no tattoos doesn't mean she's a good girl and just because a girl has a tattoo doesn't mean she is porn star or hooker girls are all the same until proven otherwise in my experience.
Where does the 1/100000 stat come from?
filtereduuu 1y ago
Without a doubt any tat in my experience and in my view is non LTR territory.
To understand this you've got to understand why.
First, a tat is a permanent thing (almost). Girls live in the moment and a Tat is usually something she does because of a feeling she felt at the time - which shows some poor self control and inpulsive behaviour that often carries over to the way she behaves sexually - the kind of poor inpulsive behaviour that means she has likely fucked or blown someone down an alleyway for thrills.
Second, a tat is typically for two reasons 1) for a girl to feel sexual, beatiful, which means she has an ingrained belief that she is not good enough as it is. 2) For a girl to get some attention and gratification.
Every girl I have slept with who had a tat ended up being a freak and showing many more red flags down the line.
Seagram7 1y ago
This whole debate on women and tattoos make's me sad seeing how far we have sank as a culture, how far we have fallen as a society. Not even a generation ago, tattoos on a girl were frowned upon, now they are OK? These are the same guys now that argue that the number ten isn't a high body count. What's next? "Oh it was only ONE gangbang! and she has been a good girl since!" It’s In The Small Things Where The Rot Starts.
We are literally feeding girls id and ego with attention and validation when we peruse women with tatts or think tatts are OK. when is that line drawn? Do the wrong thing once, it’s easier to do it again.
EurasianChad 1 1y ago
Interesting. I wouldn't normally disqualify a woman who has an isolated tattoo, quite like the minimalist trends seen now adays, granted she is sweet, shows traditional values of wanting a family, and all other previously mentioned non-negotiables.
Do you believe that tattoos on men are also a measure of self harm, self destruction, etc?
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Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
Tattoos on men are a sign of retardedness and low socio-economic value. May also hint at latent homosexuality, as its usually a form of 'look at me, I'm real tough'. Whenever I see a full sleeve on a guy, I always think to myself 'The lady doth protest too much'.
Any one that needs to tell you that they are tough (through signalling) isn't usually that tough.
EurasianChad 1 1y ago
So the rock "dwayne johnson" isn't actually tough? Conor Mcgregor isn't actually tough? Any ufc fighter with tattoos? Men who have the balls to risk their lives like modern day gladiators? C'mon man
I think you're looking at it too narrow mindedly, and I myself have 0 tattoos.
I do have friends who have tattoos as an expression of rebellion & non conformity, or simply an artistic edge. There may be many reasons for something other than what you personally think
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
Your frame of reference for tough guys is Dwayne and Conor?
EurasianChad 1 1y ago
You don't think men who risk their lives and step into the octagon are tough? I'd like to hear your definition, please tell me what you've done Mr. Tough Guy authority.
There is definitely courageousness in this feat. I don't think that has to be explained any further. If you don't get it, I don't know what to tell you lol.
Prisoners are also heavily tattoo'd, please go on and explain that.
EurasianChad 1 1y ago
And I mean no disrespect, but saying its homosexual is like the fat guy rationalizing why dudes who are far more ripped & attractive than they are, are also gay. Seems to come from a place of jealousy rather than objective truth.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
But how in the world would I be 'jealous' of guys with loads of tats? Doesn't make sense. Because it doesn't take much skill, brains or resources to get covered in tats.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
So an actor on steriods, an Ex-ufc fighter on steroids and now convicted felons ...those are your bench marks for 'tough guys'?
Ngl, it sounds pretty childish. Like what a 14 year old boy would say those are tough guys. It sounds like you have a child like view on what what it is to be a man.
Since you asked (so nicely), for me masculinity is about about a lot more than lifting weights, taking steroids and committing crime. It's about achievement and overcoming adversity. Guys that you dont' see on TV, the guys that raise families on low wages while being shat on and robbed blind by their own governments, those are tough guys. Men that persevere, and go on to do great things, like walk on the moon, invent things, explore the world and science - those are tough guys. The guys that escape the negativity of their backgrounds, those are tough guys. Men that have formulated ideas that then changed the world - those are tough guys.
And you offer up Dwayne, Conor and prisoners in prison. That's your view of masculinity.
I think you have growing up to do.
EurasianChad 1 1y ago
I agree with your definition but its multi-faceted. There is an element of mental toughness to what you just described, but saying conor mcgregor or dwayne johnson aren't tough is just blindly ignoring the truth. Even by your definition, these men also came from poverty & had to overcome massive adversity. Any successful man at the pinnacle of his field had to. So by your definition, you're disputing your own claim.
Just because someone is taking a lot of shit from the govnerment & raising families on low wages doesn't mean thats the definition of toughness. Elements of truth to it, but not the entire truth. Lets be real here. Withstanding a horrible situation and not making out of it does make you mentally tough, but also shows a lack of intelligence to be stuck in those situations. Or maybe a bad hand in life, there isn't just one reason for something.
you basically agree with me. Just because they are on steroids or are no longer fighting in the UFC doesn't mean they're somehow pussys. Would you say the same for a war veteran who charged bravely at his enemy, is now no longer a tough guy? C'mon man.
EurasianChad 1 1y ago
Any man who has the balls to put himself in a position of danger voluntarily is considered tough in the most primal definition. Its very easy to point out how a strong man stumbles or errs.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
I think your definition of what is 'tough guy' is very flawed - because you are basically selecting guys that are stupid. You're selecting a comic book representation of a tough guy. It doesn't take 'toughness' to be an MMA fighter, you just need to be stupid, have a disregard for your own safety and develop some skills at fighting. That's not toughness. That's just being retarded.
There are loads of normal guys that look around at the world they are in, and weigh up the options. A smart guy can see that putting in the work to say, become a dentist, is less than the amount of work required to be a professional MMA fighter. And he is smart enough to see that the average lifetime earnings of a dentist is probably about 100x the average lifetime earnings (or more) of an MMA fighter. So that is why we have 1000s more dentist that we have pro MMA fighters. Because most people are not retarded.
And please please please do NOT say that average MMA fighter makes more than the average dentist. Because that would just prove that you do not understand the concept of average.
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EurasianChad 1 1y ago
Anyone who steps into the octagon knows they're risking their lives.
Conor McGregor is extremely mentally agile, watch his press conference. A stupid person can't come up with things like this on the spot. Also, this isn't an argument on intelligence. Idk why intelligence is even a factor here.
Toughness = courageous. Toughness = hard to kill.
How can you argue a dentist is tougher than a MMA fighter.....
But I'll disregard everything illogical you said and get to the main point
Main argument you had: tattoos are mostly for dudes trying to appear tough. These MMA fighters have tattoos and are simultaneously tough, even by your definition. All went through poverty and massive adversity, provided and made their families lives better. The only difference is they made it out of poverty as compared to your examples stated earlier.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
not going to sit here and argue with you dude, because its like talking to a 14 year old.
You have a childish view of what is tough. If your weltanschaung of what a tough guy is are those examples you gave, then you have an infantilised perspective of masculinity. If you think that CmG is 'mentally agile' then I don't know what to do with you.
Now run along.
EurasianChad 1 1y ago
You're literally denying dudes who fit your exact definition to a tee, and it seems you're just jealous they aren't still going through hard ship til this day hence why you can't accept it. Ironically goes to show lack of maturity to still not admit you're wrong. But okay, say what you want.
See how you only nit pick small parts of my argument but can't answer anything else, now even bringing an irrelevant characteristic, intelligence, into the mix. Just denying outright facts.
To deny these guys aren't tough just cus they aren't going through adversity and poverty to this day blows my mind.
Now run along.