My situation:
Met this girl around half a year ago. We go on a date, have sex, then our relationship turns into a sort of her being a plate of mine.
She is younger than me, 22, has been only in LTRs all her life, no casual dating. So it was new to her. She had broken up with her ex not that long ago. Straight away she stated that she looks for serious stuff. I defused, amused mastery. We had sex around 3 times. Already after a week or so she had “the talk”, now that I realize it.
We have sex. She asked what are my intentions, said she seeks serious stuff, and I said I don’t want/need a relationship currently, I need to know the person better. She took it as me being "a player". Which it kinda was. I should have taken that as a green flag and a sign of naivete, inexperience, but I did not.
Anyway she got frustrated, bitchy, I maintained DGAF mentality, but I think I need to take responsibility here for being too harsh as well. I was not in the best place of mind too, as I was partying a lot at the time and doing whatever. Apparently she asked again about my goals, I said I don’t need a LTR atm. She got kinda mad and said she was going to town to meet some friends. I said do it, pushed her to go, as I was not about to take shit from a girl. I wish I judged her more accurately before of wasn’t that aloof.
Anyway, I held frame. I kinda thought we wouldn’t even see each other again. She did too. We don’t meet for 2+ weeks, with only a text sent by me to her twice, receiving a text back respectively just to keep in touch. Otherwise we only texted for logistics (and throughout our whole situationship).
Even though our last encounter didn’t end that well, I thought we were still ok, once emotions subsided. After those 2+ weeks go by, I hit her up, she comes to my place. We have sex. All seems great.
We talked a few more times about the relationship and my expectations and I would never want to talk about it, defuse any talks. We continue to see each other on my terms, text for logistics only.
Anyway, a few months go by and my perspective changes. I learned her body count of 2. I see that she is a great girl, and I also want to change my lifestyle, stop acting single and focus on relationship with her. Being with her helped me cut drinking, workout more, become more religious.
I cut contact with other girls and focused on her, while still maintaining previous relationship frame and an abundance mindset.
She goes out of her way to please me, makes me artistic gifts, she even wrote and recorded me a love song. She is also a homebody, few friends, rarely goes out.
All is good, but before committing, I tried trickle truth from her about her past during our situationship. I don’t know why I even felt the need to learn that, I might have caught feelings and began feeling suspicious (trust issues with all women). I asked about some other things assuming she slept with someone else (shot in the dark). She tried hooking up with someone the same night we fell out initially and both thought we were done. She also told me that she slept with her ex during the 2 weeks we didn’t meet (1st month of dating).
NOTE: She is the one who left him, as he was a beta in her eyes. She seeked emotional validation from him, "wanted to spend time with someone who appreciated her", while we also were single and not working towards an LTR.
I learned this info 5 months after. To note, she was the one who broke up with her ex (3+ year LTR).
I understand now - that was when the plate broke (after 2 weeks of dating). But since we resumed contact and all went well afterwards, I didn’t think nothing of it. She assumed she was single and lost that initial interest she had in me, once she realized she couldn’t lock me down. She continued to spend time with me after though and would show her feelings to me, but I would never allow myself to change my mindset.
What I need help with is frame and feeling of insecurity. I felt like upon finding out this info, my ego took a huge hit. I blame myself of what could have been had I lied to her more initially, I was being too honest back then about my intentions, though I remained vague. I tried to be too honest and not lead her on initially but I didn't realize things could change and I could see her in a different light.
That rumination leads to nothing, I am just torturing myself, and I will just push her away. I am willing to walk away but more than that I want to fix myself and escape this blue pill thinking. It’s like I wanted to use red pill methods to achieve blue pill goals.
I don’t want to end this thing and regret what if, because otherwise she has shown great traits, is a homebody, cut all orbiters/males off for me. But I need to somehow reconcile with what happened, because of my own stupidity. I didn’t see her as a serious candidate due to my own experiences with trash, party women, and I also saw her in a bad light at first, which led to my vagueness and the “plate breaking”.
I feel like I can fake the frame now, but the insecurity/anxiety feeling comes back every now and then.
I broke up with her (ended our FWB arrangement), but she did everything to make me stay, I took her back. Gave me keys to her flat, removed males on SM, blocked her ex, for over 2 months done everything to show her loyalty to me. We are now in a LTR.
Some days it’s fine, I just have this inner jealousy, but most days I keep getting stuck in the past, thinking what if. To cut it all off again would be option (which my instinct tells me to do), but I want to take the hard way and try it with her, due to what she brings to my life, and my feelings for her. She has done nothing to question her loyalty or feelings for me since.
Any tips to deal with it? How to find that inner confidence? I want to forget what happened. I know Rollo’s iron rule #7, but I want to take responsibility for my actions too.
I know such shit will continue to haunt me in all relationships, if I don’t learn to work on myself. I am avoidant and aloof until the last minute and then I am surprised why it went the way it did. Like I don’t trust no girl at all, when I should be more open at first and take the risk, not self-sabotage myself.
I am her oneitis.
Can I ever love her the same? Can I override this inner feeling? Is it OCD? Don’t understand what is wrong with me.
TLDR:
Was seeing a girl for a couple weeks (new plate). Didn’t see her as LTR material at the time due to own experience with only trash women. Had the talk, I went aloof and dismissive, plate broke. Didn’t realize that at the time, met 2-3 weeks after. Plated to FWB to LTR (5 months dating after). Found out she slept with her ex during the break when plate broke 5 months ago (she told me when I pressured on some other things). Feeling insecure and needing to reestablish frame. Inner conflict between feelings for her, what’s logical and inner anxiety.
Thank you.
EDIT:
Ended up breaking up. It’s not a matter of logic but anxiety and saving yourself, even if I don’t have reasons to doubt her.
Durek_The_Bald 1y ago
You did the right thing. Sure, she didn't owe it to you to be exclusive, seeing as she was just a plate or a FWB. But still, fucking her ex during your 2-3 weeks hiatus puts a massive spanner in that whole "potential LTR" thing. As you say, it'll always be in the back of your mind, so it's better to seek out new prospects, where you won't have that sort of baggage from the get-go.
It's just one of those where nobody's to blame, but where circumstances make it impossible to pursue anything potentially serious.
Also, I don't see this as an issue with your frame. Having frame doesn't mean being ok with everything - like her fucking her ex. It's about acting on it (i.e. walking away) when something isn't to your liking, isn't working for you etc. And you did, so...
I think most guys will get it. We might be ok with a girl having some history (to varying degrees), but we don't want to know it that specifically, or for it to have happened during our time with them. It's normal (and healthy) for that kind of information to be a major buzz kill. If we expect ourselves to be ok with that, we're fast approaching Cuckville.
alfon335 1y ago
Thanks for the response. What I was trying to figure out is this:
1) Was this gut feeling truly unfixable and had to do more with her actions (feeling cucked), or rather my own insecurities (made me subconsciously feel not good enough)? I sometimes think if like I saw her ex in real life or improved myself even more that shit would have gone out from my system but my frame was already starting to crumble with her.
2) Did I fuck up by not giving a fuck too much the first stint (too strong frame) and it’s my fault she did what she did, or was it unavoidable? Beta/alpha calibration issue?
I think now that I realize I was being too considerate of her and should have lied better.
Anyway on to self-improvement
Durek_The_Bald 1y ago
1) 100% normal, natural gut reaction in my eyes. Not even supposed to be "fixed". It's in our biology to be disgusted at that, part of what we are. Whether it's insecurity is besides the point. There are plenty of things we're supposed to feel insecure about because it helps protect us. You're supposed to be insecure about cuckery, the same way you're supposed to be insecure about stepping in front of a moving train.
2) No such thing as "too strong frame". And by "frame" I mean being unapologetically true to oneself.
If you really wanted to go exclusive at an earlier stage, but didn't due to "rules", then that's not frame. That's an external locus of control
If you're actively, consciously "calibrating your alpha/beta", then that's not frame either. That too is an external locus of control.
If you went about it how you truly wanted at the time, then fine. Don't second-guess yourself. Then she went and did something that gave you an ick, and you acted on it by dumping her. Don't second-guess that either.
If you didn't want exclusivity and a boyfriendish vibe at the time, then nothing good would've come from you going along with that anyways, just because she was twisting your arm. So in that sense, yeah it was unavoidable it ended in an ick.
There are no villains in this story, noone "at fault". Just two people playing their respective games, and the games not aligning. So you move on to the next. Plenty of fish and all that.
As for lying...you could make an argument for or against that. Yeah, you should be comfortable lying to women. It's not like they have a God given right to know everything about you. And when they press you on stuff that's none of their business, sure you can lie. Nothing morally wrong with that.
But the optimal ideal is to have enough options, a strong enough frame, and to be outcome independent enough that you don't have to lie. Just spouting the ugly truth all the time, and on to the next when someone can't handle it. But ideals are just that though - something to reach towards that you can probably never reach.
alfon335 1y ago
Thing is, I am trying to figure out if she was a quality girl due to the fact that she ended it with me and didn’t allow to be stringed along at first, or the opposite.
Like sometimes I think guys on TRP (myself included) get on with insecure girls, who allow themselves to be led on.
I was used to much more promiscuous women and that 100% alpha state was something I was used to. It worked and it became a part of me. Zero empathy.
In her situation she was just being logical and did not want to waste more time on me. Yet her emotional ego outburst caused her to act in that way.
Maybe I met her one too many times too early? Maybe I could have sent a text to her, to make her feel more wanted. In hindsight, I truly did not give a fuck. In the future, maybe I should treat a woman with a little more respect, before it backfires. You never know who will prove themselves quality, but we all do mistakes + AWALT.
It just sucks that you have to learn this shit from experience and pull yourself by the balls to sacrifice an otherwise great relationship with a good woman.
Durek_The_Bald 1y ago
Naw, she wasn't a keeper.
Men and women aren't the same. Sex is biologically far more risky to women than it is to men. So naturally, we have different attitudes towards it, different emotions built up around it.
Her reaction to not getting what she wanted was basically "jump straight on another cock". How do you think that would've panned out in a relationship with her?
That's man-behaviour. And it's acceptable from a dude. But it's pathological behaviour from a women, and invalidates her as LTR material. Giant red flag, regardless of how many green flags she had up until that point. Showed her true problem solving skills.
I think you're pedestalising this girl. On to the next.
alfon335 1y ago
I fully understand the red pill concepts logically, and from my experience it was always easy to follow them and not get too attached to a girl. The problem is that I did get attached here and I am pedestalizing.
I know my SMV is higher than hers which always made our dynamic work, but I doubt myself if I will be able to find a woman like her, with her values, submissiveness and dedication to me, who would also click with me intellectually so well. IDGAF about the looks tbh, it’s plentiful.
What can fill this void? How do I become at peace with myself and let her go? I think it would be much easier (like for 99% of guys) if she broke up with me and I knew it was over. Then I could reconcile with my fate and go on with my life. Now I alpha widowed her, while still loving her. In the back of my mind, it lingers that I can hit her up and we can still be great together again. Yet, I know that I probably won’t be able to maintain my perfect frame like I did before and resort to my neurotic/toxic ways of mistrust with her, due to the actions that were done before we were serious/back when we split up.
And I also know that I fucked up so bad initially with being too alpha with her. I blame myself so much, as I was never used to “good girls”. I came into our relationship from the start with so much baggage…
It’s been 4/5 days since we broke up, but I still think about her most of the time. I never texted or called her though.
Any reading material, or someone who gives advice about a situation like this?
Maybe I should try to take her back, but first fuck some hoes to regain abundance? What do you think?
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
This sounds like me when I was younger. A bit too 'sensitive'. I don't think thats a crime.
Some of the answers on this thread are a bit to hard on OP. He is young and romantic and slightly obsessive about this girl. But slightly obsessive is the way that young men love. It's a fine line between being obsessive and being in love. The way some people talk on TRP is like they have no idea what romantic love is, and by the way they talk, they are advising against it.
In answer to OP - you'll have to figure this out. Women are the delusional of the species, men are the jealous of the species. Both genders have their weak spots. You just have to make sure that your jealousy doesn't morph into anger and rage. Can I ask - what is your own body count? Which country are you in?
You will have to work on your frame and inner strength. If you think your current situation is a bit tough, just wait till you get older and the constant shit testing from women that have high body counts in their late 20s and 30s. It's normal nowadays for women to just blurt out that they had much better sex with other men before they met you, with bigger cocks, and they were rich and handsome etc. They do it to make you feel jealous, because they interpret jealousy as you caring for them, and also to get power in the relationship. And it destroys the relationship.
So, TLDR, if you are not able to handle what she is putting on your plate right now, you're not going to enjoy what is coming down the track. The solution is up to you. My solution was always to dump women at the very first sign of this kind of bad behaviour. I can tolerate lots of things in a woman. They don't have to be super hot, dont' have to have a great body etc. But I will not tolerate bad behaviour and disrespect.
alfon335 1y ago
I am 24, body count around 15. From Europe. Thing is she doesn’t disrespect me, I have clear boundaries. But that thing happened when we kinda fell out. She lost interest back then because she wanted something more serious. I left we didn’t meet for 2-3 weeks. I hit her up again and we continued as her my plate. I know I am probably overreacting but this shit made me really anxious and insecure. Like logically I cannot fault her too much that’s why I am looking how to work on myself and regain my frame. I still do the day to day things but I keep ruminating most of the time on what happened and blaming myself for being too tough on her initially before I met her, that I didn’t add any beta game initially
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
I understand you better than you think! I've done my fair share of 'over thinking'. Esp on things like retroactive jealousy. I suggest you look up 'retroactive jealousy' and get to know it. - know your enemy!
It may well be that she is a great girl and it would be a shame to lose out on her just because you can't handle the fact that she slept with someone else, while you weren't together. As you said, you were not in a relationship when she slept with someone else.
I think a lot of men over estimate their ability to handle jealousy. They think they're going to be fine with free love, sleeping around and everyone just getting groovy with everyone else, and then they find that its actually not ok for them.
me personally, I'm a jealous guy. I would rather have one faithful woman than 20 sluts on rotation.
alfon335 1y ago
Yeah, I researched retroactive jealousy as well, also realized my avoidant attachment, which never allowed me to fully express my feelings (until I learned this info). I tend to be very aloof with women and want them to prove themselves to me first, which is what TRP would advise. I gradually began warming up upon learning her low BC.
Back then, maybe I took it to the next level by being too alpha (my lesson). Anyway, I don’t know if I can keep this retroactive jealousy under control. Sometimes it’s fine, but sometimes it dominates my day to day thoughts. It’s kinda irrelevant to our situation and some days I just want to forget I learned that information. Maybe she was emotionally immature at the time as well but I need to take responsibility for what is and stop being such a pussy. However, easier said than done. I never thought I would be in this situation. I am ready to walk away but I also realize she is a great girl otherwise who adds value to my life, and if I don’t fix myself I will lose her anyway. So I keep contemplating between ending the LTR vs fixing myself.
The latter is what I seek here. What helped you fix your jealousy? Can it be fixed in my situation?
EDIT:
Overall I was never jealous about her. I had deflected all shit tests up to that, when she would try to tease me or something or throw something at me. I never budged and DGAF. I wouldn’t have even gave a fuck if she went on dates before, I didn’t care much about orbiters. But this info broke me for some reason.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
Gosh, we have so much in common.
The thing to realise is that male jealousy is totally different to female jealousy. Male jealousy has a good reason - we need to make sure that we are the fathers of our children. Women are never unsure that they are the mothers of their own children. The strongest desire in any life form is to pass on our own genes. Passing on your genes is more important than life and death. That is what motivates male jealousy. Female jealousy is just vanity and being petty.
Men are criticised and shamed for being jealous, which is stupid. When women or other men shame men for being jealous, it just shows that they do not understand the biological imperative for male jealousy.
When a woman shames a lover for being jealous, she is non-consciously shaming that man for loving her. Because a man is only jealous of a woman that he loves. Most women HATE male jealousy. What is really going on here is that most women hate men that love them. They yearn for men that have no feelings for them. This is what makes women fucked up. Their hatred of men that fall in love with them.
If you find a woman that you love, and she likes that you love her, then you have found a diamond in the rough. There aren't many of them about.
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alfon335 1y ago
I hadn’t built any emotional attachment with her back then though?
I know what you are saying, I don’t feel in my shoes too, but what makes it worse is that I made this foundation be as bad as it is. I can’t even blame her because back then we didn’t even see each other for a while. But the feeling of ego hit is there.
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Notorious 1y ago
Sorry but I'm going to be blunt with you...You have some obsessive tendencies and it sounds like you lack abundance mentality. It will be painful but you need to move on and improve yourself before seeking out girls. It sounds like you also are filling a void, and this girl helped you fill that. Only you can fill your void and you need to improve yourself in all aspects (mental, physical, spiritual) to do that.
As for the girl...forget about her. Your oneitis is showing hard through this post and that is a spiral you don't want to go down. There are no unicorns - they are made not found. There will be another girl to take her place, and how awesome that girl is will be determined only by you and how much you improve yourself. She will treat you well, but until you have self-respect and self-mastery, you cannot create your unicorn. Stay single until you can say "I am comfortable being by myself 150%, but I am choosing to let this woman into my life because she supplements it."
alfon335 1y ago
I know I caught oneitis. But I think some degree of it is inevitable for a LTR, it’s how you manage frame.
That was the case with my gf. She was a supplement in my life and I was 100% confident in myself back when we weren’t serious. It’s just when I found that information out, I lost my inner confidence. My subconscious started thinking maybe I wasn’t enough, rather than accepting the situation for what it was at the time, me being too aloof and distant with a girl who was not as emotionally mature at the time, who I also hurt by rejecting her.
She treats me well and is submissive but I know I will lose that if I continue down this path. That’s what I am looking for, to somehow improve my mental toughness and regain confidence. If the girl screws up again, it’s over, but I need to fix myself and learn how to hold frame in a LTR, doesn’t matter if it’s going to be this girl long term or another.
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Vermillion-Rx Admin 1y ago
If you have to write this much about a single woman that is already your first problem. You care so much about her that you believe these small lesser details somehow change the overarching themes and they do not. So you ruminate on the trees instead of the forest
Secondly, would you want to LTR a woman who fucks her ex in between seeing you? No. Because she's not over him
Third "doesn't do casual" uhuh. Guess you didn't count and neither did fucking her ex again, which she probably did more than just once.
4th. How did she earn any of these upgrades? Sounds like you didn't want an LTR with her initially and then settled anyway. Someone said you didn't have abundance already and that's why gives it away. Don't settle. Settling is blue pill and it sounds like you quickly learned why you didn't want her an LTR to begin with after 5 months.
5th. A huge part of stopping blue pill ruminating is to fully accept that you don't owe women shit. She sure as fuck didn't owe you anything when she fucked her ex and then came back to you. She didn't even tell you and she was never going to. But then here you are thinking you owe her a bit more unearned seriousness in your relationship style with her
Start by internalizing that you don't owe women shit. Thinking you have to be anything more than an anti-hero (not a villain) to them who dicks them well consensually is overkill. If you're the hero in their story you are doing it wrong. Be like Deadpool, he's not the hero. He's an asshole but he does good for the general plot, but more importantly, himself
alfon335 1y ago
1st: I see your point. But I would also like to emphasize my behaviour too back then. I definitely did not calibrate my alpha/beta game well enough, I was very non-chalant, borderline rude at first. I don’t even know why, it’s that I was in that frame of mind, as I was still in that anger-phase of RP, being with women who would cheat on their bfs, and I came with similar preconceived notions. I maintained frame but I also was definitely making her feel like trash. I don’t even know why I was doing it, definitely my RP rage.
2nd: See above. I think some emotional attachment was of course left for her, but I guess it was moreso that I destroyed her ego by my cold attitude, while she was used to “nice relationship starts” and she sought validation from her ex.
If I had known it back then, it would probably be a different scenario. But I learned it after I caught feelings.
3rd: From the information I have it was once. And yeah, I was the first guy she had this situationship thing with. Also had verified this info. But I see your point.
4th: I did not want to. I explicitly had told her that I don’t talk about that shit and don’t need one but maybe one day with the right person or so, I need to get to know a person better.
She got the consideration because she has great inner qualities. Caring, submissive, smart, does gifts, goes out of her way to please me, no arguments whatsoever (until this).
5th: She told me this herself. I pressured her on some other stuff I had suspicions on (asked about something not fully founded), then she told me she hadn’t slept with anyone “new” since meeting me. I figured she had with her ex and she told me after.
Regarding abundance, I maintained that frame of mind all the time until this information I received. I ended it with her without loss of frame as well. It’s only after she pleaded and begged to try it with her, even with her being back at plate status, to try and let her prove how much she is devoted. Since then I have had trouble maintaining frame and became a loser toxic idiot.
It was not settling, I guess it was rather seeing her for who I thought she was and becoming open to that consideration. Though I still never let her know my feelings and possibility on that.
I learned a great deal of lessons with this girl, so as to not be an absolute douche first and lie more initially, as you never know who you will want an LTR with.
EDIT: I am just wondering if it’s possible to override the instinct and kill the stupid rumination while also giving this girl a proper second chance with readjusted boundaries. She hasn’t given me any doubts since. Or is it impossible to kill this inner conflict?
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
don't be too hard on yourself. You're young, you're learning and you're going to make mistakes. Everyone does.
The hardest thing to learn is how to calibrate.
You also have to be careful not to fall too deep into the RP hole - if you take it to extremes, then there is no way you're going to be able to have a loving LTR. There are plenty of guys on here who say things like 'She talked to another men? Disgusting slut, demote to plate straight away'.
These are clearly guys that dont have girlfriends, and probably never will. Life is a compromise.