I'm not so sure if I'm just circling around but why are ultimatums bad? From my understanding of frame you just have to own it. The best example I could give was that guy who's chick got railed by other men in twitter a couple months past and while others called him a cuck, he owned it. Which is why I think he has frame in that regard. So I was wondering if you own the ultimatum, would it be fine?
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SarsaparillaCorona 2y ago Stickied
That's not an ultimatum, that's some termally online bullshit drama.
An ultimatum is a last call choice presented to you by someone who wishes to control you or coerce you into their frame.
They typically follow this format:
A real world example of this would be "I don't like how friendly you are with my sister, stop having cute coffee dates with her or I'm leaving you"
The option where you agree to her ultimatum is the moment you completely lose all frame and credibility. Ultimatums are pretty much always given out of fear or jealousy and contain a bluff option.
Always. Pick. The. Bluff. Option.
Why? Well, the other option is certain failure. It is certain you will lose frame, because that option is the option where you unconditionally bend to the ultimatum giver's demands, no matter how irrational they are.
The bluff, on the other hand, is often just that, a bluff. But even if it's real, you still have frame and you can still reel back the narrative.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2y ago
Stickying because OP @Akuma doesn't appear to know what an ultimatum is
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2y ago
@akuma
ultimatum [ uhl-tuh-mey-tuhm]
noun:
a final, uncompromising demand or set of terms issued by a party to a dispute, the rejection of which may lead to a severance of relations or to the use of force.
Example:
Girlfriend: if you don't stop hanging out with your boys on guys nights on Fridays, I am going to break up with you"
Or you: "If you don't stop texting that guy, I am going to break up with you"
Ultimatums are bad because they are a complete breakdown of frame. You have no influence at that point. The person receiving the ultimatum has all the frame.
A person giving an ultimatum is basically saying "I am living in your frame, but I am tired of it, and at the force of a threat or loss of resources, will demand you be in mine"
It would be like if a twig was telling a jacked guy to physically follow his commands etc when the jack guy knows he's stronger. Even if the jacked guy complied, he would know it's all a farce and that the twig dude has no actual influence.
Ultimatums are just complete revealing that you have no frame or influence to get a situation to be in your favor and is thus inherently very low value, if not near the bottom of having no value
financehardo420 2y ago
I think op is wondering whether it’s bad to give ultimatums.
In general yes; you lose frame.
Instead of using your words to communicate how you feel ab a certain behavior, use your actions
EurasianChad 1 2y ago
He may own being a cuck, but its like a snitch owning up to being a snitch. Or a dork owning up to being a dork. Like yeah, you owned up to it, but it doesn't change the fact that you're low value.
[deleted] 2y ago
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financehardo420 2y ago
Lololol apparently his wifey is about to get railed by like 4 or 5 dudes next
[deleted] 2y ago
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Problematic_Browser 1 2y ago
Ultimatums are bad because they're terrorism.
And do you negotiate with terrorists? No.
If you give in, they will just use whatever it is again because they know you will capitulate.