if you were just starting out in America today, what are the top 3 jobs that you would try to get into for your main source of income?
i thought about doing IT, but people here are skeptical, with good reason: everyone and their mother is trying to break into that field, and with the advent of AI - who knows how long this ride is going to last? my plan A was to get a remote position with good job security in the US and then employ geographic arbitrage to live off a US salary whilst in a low CoL country, but it appears that ship has sailed - Karl Marx of this forum explained to me that I'd (soon) be competing with people not just from the US, but from everywhere around the world, for that remote position.
i don't plan to start a family yet, so the whole digital nomad thing sounds perfect. an alternative would be to work, say, 6 months in the US and get 6 months off to travel; i'd even be down for the vanlife while stateside.
thoughts?
financehardo420 Should i (x1) 2y ago
In no particular order: high finance (private equity/hedge funds/vc), tech, commercial real estate
drkb 2y ago
10y traditional software dev, 0 ai. 330k/year, negotiaiting for 500k/year with another company rn.
The influx of people into IT is a good thing. 99.9% of them are worth shit. Me and my senior friends are looking forward to standing out from the crowd even more and companies begging us in their knees to undo the noobs' damage.
Re. ai, coding will probably be the last one automated away.
Which brings me to the actual point of my comment: if you rock, there is lots of money to be made in everything, unless you majored in black lesbian dance theory.
Also agree with other posters that blue collar work/running your own business will make you more money sooner. Many prefer being their own boss. Respect. I prefer the comfort of employment and working 2h/day.
RedPilledAF 1y ago
How do you work 2h/day at a day job?
whytehorse2021 2y ago
I've spent the past year or so contemplating this. I must now admit AI can't code better than me after further testing. Perhaps one day it will but not right now. I feel bad for the people implementing AI thinking it will replace programmers. Actually I don't because they're my competition :).
Long term, you need to find jobs that can't be replaced. Special education teachers, caregivers, oil rig workers, trades, etc. If I were a young man starting out I'd go work on a cruise ship. Work my way up to captain. Bang all the hoes at work and passengers. See the world. Get a side hustle, save up money. Your biggest expense is going to be housing and food. Cruise ships provide that.
AbusiveFather1 2y ago
but the question is: how long will that last? isn't AI evolving exponentially each passing day? if so, how soon will that day, when they're equal or better, come? the usual answer is "nobody knows" - which absolutely sucks
whytehorse2021 2y ago
I think it has to do with creativity. Everything AI produces is just a rehash of something a human did. Positioning myself as a video game creator instead of a tester/dev/marketer/etc makes me irreplaceable. Sure I can use AI to make the art, test the levels, code some stuff, make marketing stuff... but I can't make it make a game from imagination. It can't come up with new ideas. So find yourself a way to make income doing that and you should be good.
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Problematic_Browser 1 2y ago
I want to tack on to this:
There is always money to be made in facilitating the indolence and incompetence of others.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
The best way of losing money is to UNDESTIMATE the indolence and incompetence of others.
For example, if there are two competing products, and one is better but requires more effort, it will always fail. Which is why things like nespresso are so successful. The coffee is dreadful, but it useful if you are lazy and unskilled at making coffee
Problematic_Browser 1 2y ago
The world will always need plumbers, carpenters, electricians, and welders.
If you're low on skills, you can always do the military as a stepping stone, but I wouldn't recommend that route for most people.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
the big issue with manual work (in the first world) is two fold;
They are usually done by men. And because all men are evil rapists, they don't deserve to be well paid. Only black lesbian feminists deserve 750k a year. So the pay is always lower than corporate retardation posts.
There are exceptions to this (as always) - if you the trade is protected, the wages can creep up (to the consternation of all of society - imagine a white, working class male (clearly a racist, evil bigot) making 6 figures?? OH the injustice of it all !!!!!!).
The way to make money from trades would seem to be as an independent contractor that employs 5-20 immigrants on low pay. Then you can prolly make 7 figures a year if you're organised.
Elegiast 2y ago
Trades by themselves are not that lucrative. The real money comes when you stop being an employee and start your own business.
I know a guy who started out as a union plumber getting paid about $80k/year + pension + other benefits. He said fuck it and started his own plumbing company. Now he has 8 other plumbers under him and clears couple of million a year easy.
TRPDuryodhana 2y ago
While this is not an answer to your question, I'd say anything that involves lots of creativity, social acumen and empathy, is going to safe for a long while, if not forever.
You can then think of all the careers that involve all of this.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
have you seen that state of the advertising industry lately? Trust me, there is no money in 'creativity'. The clients are all NPC normie corporations, and the one thing they DO NOT want is creativity.
They want shit content, for shit marketing managers that make shit products and services for shit customers. That is where the money is.
You can make money in advertising as long as you are strict about NO creativity - it has to be same same normie blah bullshit virtue signaling bullshit woketardedness.
that is the only thing that sells in advertising.
TRPDuryodhana 2y ago
Advertising has always been like this as far as I know.
Besides, 45% of US women b/w 25-44 will be single or childless by the year 2030. The so called "SHE economy" as predicted by Morgan Stanley. I think you can guess what this means.
Companies will get even more feminist and WOKE because... what else can they do? Women tend to be the biggest consumers, and so if they want their products or services to sell, they don't have much options other than wokification (If they don't, someone else will).
And, since the world gladly eats up whatever US media sells, wokery and feminism will continue to spread all over world as well. Oh, well, that's life.
mattyanon Admin 2y ago
Creativity is easy for AI to replicate, as we're seeing already with ChatGPT and the AI art generators.
Social acumen and empathy: basically this means sales, and I agree that will be safe for a long time.
mattyanon Admin 2y ago
Yeah, the whole remote working thing is really tough for the reasons you've said.
The trades will continue to be solid for years to come. Most people suck at using their hands and intelligent/talented people go into IT / Engineering. That leaves a permanent gap in the trades and they will be the last to move over to AI.
You said "top career", but what do you really mean.... most secure, easiest, highest paid?
AbusiveFather1 2y ago
my criteria is: job security, good work-life balance, low stress, average salary. something that leaves me enough time and brainpower for: a) working on a side-hustle/business, b) doing hobbies.
i used to work as a laborer in construction; i'd work for a few months, then go have fun in 3rd world countries for another few months, then repeat. but that kind of physical work is too hard on my body and is unsustainable. also, trying to do any mental work after 12 hours in that environment was nigh impossible for me. i now realize that the best strategy is to work just enough to pay for rent, food and insurance, and spend the rest of my time studying and looking for ways to earn more or the same amount of money for less time invested.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
you are looking for 'average salary'? that is a terrible strategy. Every year that goes by, the average is getting closer to bread line. Nurses in UK are one of the most frequent visitors to food banks. Average = poverty.
Plus - this 'side hustle' meme is nonsense. Side hustles never take off. they remain dreams for people that are dying a death in souless employement. No 'side hustle' can ever compete against a 'ride or die' enterprise that is fully committed and 24/7 enaged in its mission.
You cannot build an empire in your spare time. It requires everything you have.
Side hustles have got to be the dumbest ideas of our retarded times. Belief in 'side hustles' are a result of watchign too many youtube ads.
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AbusiveFather1 2y ago
Then how does one build a business if they have to work for a living at the same time?
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
I would guess that if you looked at the tiny subset of businesses that are succesfull (the overwhelming majority of them fail) they all have this in common:
An owner/ operator / founder that puts in 20 hours a day. (NOT a side hustle) Owner puts in starting capital Owner borrows for working capital Outsiders invest in the business for share of ownership.
Thats it. I can't recall hearing about a 'side hustle' that morphed into a success.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
just wanted to add....
not only is your side hustle likely to be lame if you are working a job at the same time.... you career will likely to be shite if you are operating a side hustle, because you won't put the 110% in. Someone else will (who is not operating a 'side hustle') and they will scoop the pot.
You are going to need to choose one - run a business OR grind at your career. Nobody succeeds on half measures.
One of the best ways towards owning an independent business is to join a firm, learn the game, leave, steal all their clients and go on from there.
That is a story as old as the hills. I'd say 90% of successful business were started that way.
It's how I started mine.
PS if you think its unethical or illegal to leave a business and then steal their clients ....then I have bad news for you - you are not suited to running a business.
Boosted_Arrow 2y ago
I don't get the whole IT-AI drama. There are loads of different STEM fields that you can choose from. I'm in EE and can say engineering of any kind is def. a good choice. AI will be a tool to us. I'd say it won't make engineers obsolete in the, let's say, next 50 years.
AbusiveFather1 2y ago
what STEM careers are compatible with remote work?
can you be an engineer and have a remote job in the US while working from, say, europe? i'd be willing to fly into US ever so often, but i'd like to spend the majority time overseas (heck, even in mexico).
i've also heard that various engineers do the 6 months on, 6 months off thing: they get a lot of money for completing a project in bumfuck nowhere (build a powerplant or a mine, etc), then have a few months of downtime.
Elegiast 2y ago
That's most likely not going to be possible due to taxation issues. I'm a software engineer working remotely, and corporate policy is you can only work 1 month out of a year outside the US due to international taxation and such.
AbusiveFather1 2y ago
how common is it for people to just get a VPN and ignore the 1 month rule? i assume if you were to get caught, that'd be the end of your software career? or would you still be able to find a job in another company?
i'd be willing to pay taxes in the US, while i actually live in countries that don't give a fuck about taxes (like eastern europe)
Elegiast 2y ago
You can take your chances, but it will be super obvious that you are using a VPN if IT ever has a reason to check your connection logs. Maybe you can set up a residential VPN using a friend's router or something for your own private use, but its too much risk in my opinion for no reason.
You'll get fired if you get found out, but you can easily find a job in another company if you have a couple of years of experience.
Above is for W-2 employees though. You can become a 1099 contractor, and live wherever you please as long as Uncle Sam gets his share. Take only 1 year+ contracts if you want to feel like a real employee lol. As long as you don't get found out by the Eastern European country you're living in, which has a pretty low chance, you'd be golden.
AbusiveFather1 2y ago
is it better to be a w-2 employee than a 1099 contractor? if i were to work remotely from europe, and pay for local health insurance out of pocket, that would make US health insurance benefits irrelevant - but what are some other points to consider?
Elegiast 2y ago
A lot of the highest paying jobs are going to be W-2, like the FAANG companies. W-2 jobs are also not going to allow you to live outside of the US due to tax liabilities for the company. You will also require at least a couple of years of experience at a regular W-2 job before you start to be able to land well paying contractor gigs.
1099 is okay, but you'll also have to pay your half of the Social Security and Medicare tax, where in W-2 that would be paid by your employer.
Elegiast 2y ago
1) Software Engineering. About as difficult as other engineering fields to get a bachelors for, while being tons more lucrative. Your earning potential is sky high as you get more experience. I work remotely as a Senior Software Engineer in a FAANG company, and clear $500k/year easy at age 32. Probably going to clear upwards to $600k this year, as most of my compensation is in stocks and they have gone up significantly. I started out making 50k EUR/year in Europe at age 22.
2) E-Commerce. If you can market a product and market it well, there is endless money to be made in this field. My previous software job was tangentially related to e-commerce, so I met a lot of young entrepreneurs in this field. Shops with $1M/year revenue are considered very very small, but they still bring about $150-200k in net profit after all the expenses. They also require minimal ongoing time investment once you figure out your audience and get your ads/supply chain running.
3) Doctors. Bit of a cliche but this is a proven path to 1% income. Not to mention some of the more competitive fields within medicine are making insane cash. A friend of mine recently finished his Dermatology residency, and received his first job offer for $750k/year base pay, $35k initial signing bonus, up to $100k performance bonus/year, medical school debt forgiveness if he works for 3 years and guaranteed partner track at the clinic. He will also be working 4 days a week 9 to 5, with an option to work 5 days to add another $200k/year to his compensation.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
Excellent progress dude - can I offer a bit of unsolicited advice?
You say you are paid mostly in stock - get that stock sold as quickly as you can, transit that value into cash and then back into a diversified low cost index tracker ( I personally am a huge fan of the Vanguard S&P 500 passive tracker).
REASON: You are very overexposed to your employer. The employing company is providing your income AND makes up the bulk of your assets. If that company goes pop, you loose your income AND your assets. I have personally seen this happen to friends that were earning high six figures and had low 7 figures of stock. they lost everything in 3 days. And they were all 'full sure' that their company could never go bankrupt. Think of all the too big to fails that did actually fail.
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Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
I can't really say which companies because I'd be doxing my self, but it was very common on wall street to get stock options. Many of the execs kept their stock options in things like Lehmans and AIB while working high level jobs. Then one day, the office pass doesn't work, you can't get in the office, and you go home, check your investment account and it says 'trading suspended'.
AbusiveFather1 2y ago
so, a lot to unpack here - i'm just relaying the issues other (non-software) people on this forum were concerned with, please bear with me: 1) do you think AI will take over software jobs soon, especially entry-level ones? 2) do you think it's only a matter of time before american companies find competent enough talents overseas to offshore the software jobs and pay them a small fraction of what they (used) to pay local american talent, thus destroying the local american software job market (and saving a whole lot of money)? 3) all in all, do you think it's a good idea to get into software in 2023, and if so, do you think one should focus on getting a CS degree first, or would it be a better investment of one's time to focus on self-learning and building a project portfolio. also, is something like Western Governor's University CS degree sufficient to get a job, or do you have to get a degree from a brick-and-mortar college?
people keep telling me it's nigh impossible to get an entry-level software jobs these days, and you definitely need a degree to even be considered for a spot, while preferrably having a few internships under your belt. from what i've gathered, there are two camps: people are optimistic about the future of software engineering, and those who believe that it's a dying field. the optimists claim that things like AI and an increasing pool of developers will allow more difficult tasks to be tackled, which will in turn create a need of more developers and more advanced technology, and that the recent lay-offs are only a small hickup. the pessimists claim that software has reached the end of its life-cycle: AI will remove the need of any new developers, and only the highest-end, top dog software engineers will be left in business, who will only concern themselves with maintaining the AI. that, or the companies will fully outsource the jobs to India and China, maybe get a few seasoned american developers over there to watch over them.
i thought about the doctor thing, but i'm mortified at the fact that i'd be old as fuck before i start earning a proper wage. it'd be hilarious if i were to finish residency, finally pay off student debt - treat myself to a steak, instead of the usual ramen noodle, and get hit back a car that same day. i'm in my mid 20s and have a net worth of basically $0. i do have a useless liberal arts degree, but i'd have to get into a shit ton of debt even before i got into med school, by getting all the prerequisites. frankly, i'd rather earn 50 or even 40k whilst working on a laptop from a beach somewhere in thailand, yet still enjoy youth (or what's left of it).
Elegiast 2y ago
Not going to happen. Software engineering at its core is problem solving, and that requires abstract thinking abilities. At most there will be more AI assisted tools for entry level engineers that'll make life less tedious for everyone.
Trust me, companies would have already done this if it was possible. I used to work at a company who decided to offshore a part of our code to some indian developer farm, which led half my job becoming fixing their awful code instead of writing code myself. They reverted back to all US engineers after making us suffer for about a year. There is a reason why quality software almost always gets built by engineers living in the US, and that's because US is a whirlpool sucking in the world's best talents. I myself was a developer in Europe, and was lured to US by the very attractive compensation.
It's always a good time to get into CS. This is probably one of the fields with the best long term outlook looking 50+ years into the future. Getting a CS degree would open doors for you to get that initial entry level job, but I don't think it's worth it if it's gonna be a degree from a university like Western Governors. If you wish to get a CS degree, try to find an online program from your local state school. Since you already have a bachelors, you can try applying for GATech's OMSCS Master's Degree program in order to pivot to a software role. It is fully online and pretty cheap.
This is true, but not for the reason you think. There has been massive layoffs in the tech industry starting last year and it still continues to this day. This caused a flood of talented engineers to the market who are laid off from Apple, Google etc. and made the market incredibly competitive even for Senior roles. This problem is compounded further due to the ongoing hiring freeze at most of the top-mid tier tech companies, so there aren't that many jobs to begin with.
It is a self correcting situation however. In a year or two, hiring will open up and it will be business as usual.
In the normal software engineering marketplace, getting an entry level job is easy/moderately difficult if you have CS degree depending on where you've graduated from, and a bit harder if you don't have a degree but went to something like coding bootcamp. However at the end of the day, interviews in this field are purely meritocratic. If you can solve the technical interview questions better, you will most likely be chosen over an Ivy League graduate, assuming all other things are equal.
This entire passage is some high grade bullshit. AI is not going to take over and start writing code. If it does happen, it will be way wayy beyond our lifetimes. Current AI models in existence do not have ability to problem solve, be creative or think. They merely regurgitate things that may or may not be true, depending on the dataset they were trained on. They are merely an application of statistics, where the models use a lot of existing data to produce something similar to that dataset when prompted.
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Elegiast 2y ago
From what I've seen, most of the money goes to online advertising and labor costs. Google Search/Shopping Ads, Facebook/Instagram Ads, Tiktok Ads etc. it all adds up. You can probably have better margins by doing Amazon FBA, but then you'll have to compete with the chinese sellers and be locked to Amazon's ecosystem.
How do you manage 50% net profits, is it fully organic traffic and you have no employees?
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AbusiveFather1 2y ago
if you could do it all over again, how would you start in e-commerce?
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