Im in such a unique dilemma. I am a proven 8.5/10 smv guy. This is confirmed by the laws of sexual market, I have many HB8 ex'es, constantly rejected by HB2-7. In public, IOI's constantly from HB8-9. But they are rare.
Just to add context i did steroids and look like an elite athlete, not like a bodybuilder. Before steroids i was a "pretty boy" so i have both the face and the body now, some top-tier tattoo sleeves (professional athlete type tattoos you see on nfl mlb or nba players), a career, traveling the world especially in countries where my smv (foreigner status and financial earning power) gives me an advantage. This throws me up to an even higher smv especially considering im a high smv in USA
My issue is simply this... I meet a girl thats just my type. Shes generally an HB8. We hit it off, she becomes a plate and sometimes my GF. But this doesnt happen often because a true HB8 is not super common. When I go to a club or bar literally 95% of girls there are HB5-7. Theres no HB8 or HB9. If there is she has a boyfriend.
Im now forced to approach and interact with HB5-7's all night. Ones who generally reject me all the time by being rude or cold to me in daily life (grocery store, cashiers, etc). Now put them in a bar environment and its generally the same thing. I get friendzoned by them while they start kissing a 5/10 guy right after. A guy that is in their league. At times become invisible. Then i go home alone.
I go to the gym next day for example. Theres a bunch of HB8-9 in the gym. All of them checking me out and giving me IOI's, following me around, just flocking to me. Them ignoring other guys who are 5/10. Im Chad again, but mainly because they view me as "in their league" generally but the thing is there is only a higher concentration of HB8-9 at the gym because thats where theyre made and produced. The truly hot girls are working on their bodies. The HB5-7's are too lazy
Its just super frustrating. When i go to a club or bar with an abundance of hot women im def going home with one. But thats kind of rare to find.
I guess if i can make a TLDR it looks like this:
HB5 - Rejection about 90%
HB6 - Rejection about 70%
HB7 - Rejection about 50%
HB8 - Rejection about 33%
HB9 - Rejection about 33%
Its clear to me that evolutionary speaking, the universe or sexual market does not want me reproducing with HB5-7. And that they dont want to reproduce with a high smv guy, maybe because they will be abandoned when reproduction occurs. This makes my dating pool extremely smaller than the normal guy who is generally say, a 6/10 which i believe makes most of the sexual market. Most guys i see on the street with girlfriends or wives are generally not chads but generally average guys who are not losers but not necessarily champions either.
Im not sure what to do with this. I do well with women when i find my type, because im their type. Im tired of going to clubs and being surrounded by HB6-7 who reject me and go home with losers. Im invisible to them. My dating pool is super limited compared to a lower smv man.
Heres the thing. Im not saying all lower smv girls reject me. But truthfully a lot do considering my smv. When i do get access to low hanging fruit, girls are generally hesitant because they know im "autorejection" material... but lets say that some nights i hook up with one which happens sometimes. Its like we kiss at a club and nothing happens, we kiss there is no sparks, we kiss and she likes me and im a good actor and eventually later down the line she figures out im not genuinely attracted to her but just opportunistic for sex, or that we have sex and i lose a boner, or we have sex and she catches feelings but i start flaking bc i lose interest bc i know my value/potential, or we have sex and i dont look or touch or fuck her the same way i would with a "hotter" girl, or i dont look in her eyes as lustfully i would a girl in my actual league...... these are all things that happen when i date down and it seems evolution spreads us apart naturally.
With a hb8 i catch genuine feelings for them (not beta) and the girls genuinely believe they can hook me for commitment or they actually do, and we have a fulfilling relationship with amazing sex and genuine loving feelings and great vibes and energies and i can look at them lovingly and not want to ruin the relationship over trivial bullshit. In this case i kiss them more passionately, fuck them like the last pussy on earth, and hold their face as i kiss them passionately and eventually they eat out of my hands figuratively speaking and view me as a primary priority in their life. Im also not embarrased to be seen in public with them, and i do generally view them as enhancing my status and not drawing unhealthy attention of a hot guy + ugly girl dynamic
Its as if nature and evolution gravitates us together on a primal level, and it repels me from HB5-7's. Im at the point where im so tired of empty sex and hooking up (im 27 now and my ncount is probably around 100 now) and i only want a LTR with a hb8. I have recently rejected a few ONS/plates that were hb7 because i know they were going to break eventually for reasons i posted above and its not fulfilling to me anymore.
Am i onto something here? Anyone else relate?
whytehorse2021 10mo ago
This happens to me when I go to Asia and transform from a 6.5 to an 8.5(maybe 9 now my teeth are fixed). The Thai word for it is butterfly. And just like a butterfly, you go from flower to flower and never stick around. And the women know this. So you're a hook up at best to them.
Every time I fucked a HB6-7 it was always some married chick or a prostitute. Normal single women autoreject me. What's really annoying is how Asians consider an ugly light-skinned woman prettier than a pretty dark-skinned woman. So I'd have all these ugly/light chicks thinking I'm the same SMV as them and all the hot/dark chicks auto-rejecting me.
So your choices are to go for hook-ups with married chicks, make a HB5-7 prostitute really happy, or stick with HB8-9 chicks. I've learned that all the HB8-9 chicks go to certain places like red light districts where they can make bank, colleges, beauty pageants/modeling shit, the gym(as you pointed out), etc. What's funny is if you do this long enough you start to realize all the hotties in the gym are strippers.
So in order to deal with this Mike Sartain has come up with this social circle game. You're basically casting a wide dragnet and letting the women sort themselves into your inbox. You basically friend-zone a bunch of hotties and then they go find chicks for you. Every chick has that one HB9 friend that isn't a hoe and needs to meet a great guy who is looking for something serious but she quit dating or whatever.
ogrilla99 10mo ago
First question: do you really want those HB6-7s? I mean, I get that they're more common, but at some point, quality matters over quantity. If you do, that's fine, but just make sure it's not just the natural reaction to someone "lesser" than you getting a girl that rejected you. IOW, make sure you're going after an HB6 because you actually want her (even for just the night), and not just because your ego can't handle an uglier dude scoring while you're not.
That said, I find the same thing. I'm not an elite athlete by any means, but I find it easier to talk to HB7/8/9s than lower ones. And I think the reason is, you have to approach the two groups differently. An HB 8/9 gets worshipped by every dude she meets, even plenty of hot rich guys. If you want to stand out, you basically need to cut her down to size. Make her realize that you're not intimidated by her, you have higher SMV than her, you can get tons of girls like her anytime you want while you're a rare gem that she needs to chase. Hot girls love that, and the more DGAF attitude you have (while staying fun, and not becoming an asshole), the more they'll chase you.
With HB 5/6s, as you mention, they already know you're the prize. You're way hotter than the guys that normally hit on her, and they also suspect your motives: are you just dumpster-diving for the night? For these girls, your approach has to be 180 degrees opposite: you build comfort, reassure her that she's worthy of you. Instead of a neg, where you find something she's proud of and indicate it's nothing special, build her up: find something you know she's insecure about, and tell her you find it irresistible. If she's comfortable that you're genuinely interested in her, then she'll be much more open to something.
Or to think of it another way: TRP spends a lot of time telling us to view ourselves as the prize, and to get women to realize they have to chase you to win that prize, not the other way around. But, you can't overdo it: a woman has to believe she has a decent chance of actually winning that prize, or else she won't bother. An HB9/10 knows that, even if you're a millionaire athlete with washboard abs, she has a good chance of "winning" you if she wants. You just need to convince her that you're the one she should want. OTOH, an HB5/6 already knows they want you. You just have to convince them that they have a decent chance of "winning" you, so they should try.
The weekly Mega Millions sometimes has a jackpot of like $300million. And yet, plenty of people play scratchers where the payout is $10-$50. Why? Because it's not just about how big the prize is, but also the chances of winning it. An HB9/10, you need to convince them the prize is big, because they know they can win any contest. An HB5/6 already views you as a big prize, you need to focus on convincing them they can win the prize. Does that make sense?
amazonri 10mo ago
My thing is that the HB8-9 immediately see me as a prize, and make things easier. I dont deal with insecurities, autorejection, and gaslighting that theyre better than me. They respect my smv because as you said, they believe they have a realistic chance of "winning me". This is not a facade that i can fake or present to them, rather its a palpable sexual tension thing, where they can see with every ounce of my energy and body language that we are both in the same league and im rare and shes rare, so things go naturally from there without much games.
Its only with the HB5-7 where they generally play stupid mind games with me, treating me like im the low smv one which i consider a form of gaslighting, and just generally having a hate boner towards me. So yeah. The thing is that i dont get with them because "ego" of an uglier dude scoring, it has more to do with just being a guy and wanting to go home with whats available to me, which as i said is generally only hb5-7 available because that is the majority of women at bars. It just so happens this demograph is the saltiest to high smv guys. They inevitably hook up with these average smv men because these are the type of guys who will catch LTR feelings for them later down the line, or so they hope.
Of course i know quality > quantity. Thats the root purpose of my post and why i dont chase plates anymore.
I think you make a good point. If im being frankly honest, I dont view any of these attempts at hooking up with low hanging fruit as me genuinely wanting the girl. Its me just 'settling' for a ONS. But also in my post i do state that when i go to clubs i hardly see HB8 because a true HB8 is rare and therefore my dating pool is small. Theyre the only ones who take my advances seriously and with respect. Low SMV girls can see that nothing will come of this.
My best relationships are girls i meet and theyre so attractive to me that when we talk and look at each other its extremely awkward from sexual tension. Like theres static in the air. My body only reacts to this with an HB8 thats my "type" and generally their bodies react the same to my presence. These are the girls that end up becoming my plates or LTR's and amazing sex and vibes. Theres no "charity" fucking or tolerating bad odours/low attraction to hb5 body. You can only be a good actor for so long before they notice you dont even like fucking them, why would i want to LTR them? With an hb8 there is no acting, if anything im trying to poker face my way into not showing too much feelings or being "Whipped", more of a gameface of just lust / teasing / etc.
No. Im only tolerating them sexually. After a ncount of 100, an hb6-7 body and face are generally not going to turn me into a pussy fucking animal in heat. I certainly wont dream of them romantically either in the plate phase either.
ogrilla99 10mo ago
Reading this, I wonder if you're just giving off the wrong vibe with the lower SMV girls. I mean, HB5's are still down for ONS. They're not always just looking for LTRs. But they need to sense that you really want them, even if it's just for a night. There's a distinction between abundance mentality, where even though you have plenty of other options, you at least wouldn't mind adding this woman to your harem vs. disgust where you have absolutely zero interest and literally see her as a warm hole and nothing else.
At the very least, you gotta give off a sense that yes, you understand they're not conventionally attractive, but you have a thing for them anyway. Like chubby chasers: even fat people know that fat isn't generally considered attractive, but there are some guys who like it, and if you're one of them, they'll give you a chance because at least you won't make them feel horrible about their weight.
If it's clear that you're clearly not enjoying their company, will hate yourself (and her) in the morning and will actually literally put a bag on her head when you fuck her, well... it's hard to find a girl with enough daddy issues to accept that deal :-)
In your situation, I wonder, why not just call up one of your plates for a booty call? In another post, you said you had a decent girl that you actually wanted to hook up with again, so clearly, it seems that even if you leave the club empty-handed, you have other options, and better ones at that. So why this fixation that the girl must come from the club?
amazonri 10mo ago
Youre definitely right I am. I deal with so much autorejection from these HB2-6 in daily life that when im nice and polite to them they try to reject me. I cant give them one fucking inch. When i was younger, around 21 it used to perplex me. I would be nice and flirty with these type of girls only to be rejected at the end. But at 21 i discovered TRP and what "autorejection" was and was able to compartmentalize what was actually happening. Then I started becoming jaded, that i cant treat these girls like humans. Because being nice to them meant they would try to one-up me and reject me, they are mentally unstable and you cant treat them normally without their baggage coming into play.
Five years later im very versed in this now.
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Bulba 10mo ago
You have two options, either level up or drop out:
1) Level up: Go to expensive clubs in expensive cities. There are no HB5-7 at these places. In some of these clubs, bouncers won't even let them in.
2) Drop out: Become a passport bro and leave the U.S. for the time being. It seems you've already done that for a while, so you should already know that is an easy way to consistently get HB8+.
amazonri 10mo ago
Yes these particular bar events are language exchange ones where locals come to speak English. But its still like a party with drinks and what not. Its definitely not where the hot girls in town are going.
I only go to these because i am actively trying to learn portugese and make friends with both local men and if i score a hook up on the side thats ideal too. Its just that all the girls here are not the smoking hot brazilians you would imagine. Theyre quite like the low-mid tier of them.
My best pulls in foreign countries have not been at events like this. Always been more "in the wild". I have gone to enough of these events to realize something is weird.... that maybe the girls are looking for a betabux or something. And that generally the upper tier girls are not meeting men at language exchanges, it seems like low fruit for women. Which is why the low tier girls come here.
Bulba 10mo ago
The problem with language exchanges is that they make it too easy to approach girls. They are sitting right in front of you, and you are expected to talk to them. It's almost like speed dating.
In a normal context, low value men would not have the balls to approach girls, but this kind of event allows them to become very confident. So attractive women tend to avoid these places because they know that they will be approached by creeps.
In my experience, every single language exchange has at least one regular creep who is there exclusively to hit on girls. Average girls enjoy this kind of attention, but upper tier girls obviously are going to avoid it.
By the way, this goes for language exchanges everywhere, not just countries where girls might be looking for a walking green card. I've had exactly the same kind of experience going to language exchanges in Europe.
amazonri 10mo ago
Well that’s good to hear that because I knew deep down something was funny about these meetups. Because it is unlike any of my other experiences stepping out the house- like I’m high smv everywhere but in these language exchange meetups. It was gaslighting me to question my smv and that I was being outperformed by low-mid tier men too
I’m going to just stick to normal clubs and bars and pull where the actual hot Brazilian women are without them judging me for being at a language exchange. They never really felt like my type of crowd anyways. I never went to one in USA because I always felt that it’s where the local outcasts go to meet friends. I won’t blame a foreigner for attending one they’re just trying to meet people. But Generally this attracts attention whores recruiting beta orbiters
Bulba 10mo ago
If you focus on clubs that are expensive by Brazilian standards, you will be more likely to find girls who can speak English.
If you are in São Paulo, go to Itaim Bibi. If you are in Rio, go to Barra da Tijuca. If you are in Florianópolis, go to Jurerê Internacional.
In fact, I am almost sure you are not in Florianópolis. Otherwise, you wouldn't be complaining about not being able to find enough hot girls in Brazil. I highly recommend you to spend a week or two there and see how it goes.
Lone_Ranger 1 10mo ago
not really sure what you are complaining about?
your TLDR should be: I'm a super hot dude, I don't have any problems pulling hot chicks, but I'm finding it hard to pull ugly chicks.
What is your issue? Maybe rather than trying to find advice on how to pull hundreds of low value chicks you need to have a think about where you want your life to go. Why are you spending your time trawling the dumpster? All clubs and bars are basically the dumpster. Some are expensive dumpsters, but they are all dumpsters. You only ever find trash in the dumpster....not sure why guys don't get this. Some people are just hard of learning.
If you give a rapper or NBA star $4m per year, all they seem to do is spend more money going to more expensive dumpsters, but with 'a crew'. Then they wonder why they only meet expensive trash.
Perhaps you need to level up, if you want higher value women. You might find it hard to pivot into a man of quality / substance, because of your 'top quality full sleeves'.
amazonri 10mo ago
Well im already in another country yes, but i do come to these events to make friends and possibly some hook ups. When i come to these events i meet lots of guys who want to be my friend, thats the main reason. But im also drunk and theres women around sooooo, yeah. I do kind of want pussy too.
The thing is that these are :language exchange" events for locals and foreigners. The catch is that no quality Brazilian girl goes to these events. I noticed that the main girls here are generally the 'uglier' Brazilian girls that speak english. The super bad ones arent coming to events like this, but they also dont speak English. Im in the process of learning Portugese as we speak.
You are right about putting myself in the wrong bars. I had this same issue when I was in Colombia. All the ugly chicks are in the language exchange bars. But when I made it to "normal" clubs with hot women dancing all around i would easily score there.
I think girls who need to go to those events are generally weird by nature, probably some looking for beta bux. This is my 2 cesnts, but when i was living in USA all the hot girls were not going to language exchange events to meet foreign men. The only reason i go to these is because when youre in a completely new country, the only social events available are advertised as language exchange
All my plates have been found outside of these events when i go out to other clubs . I met some cool Brazilian guys there and they invited me to go to real clubs
Lone_Ranger 1 10mo ago
I don't think understood my first post, because you say "you are right about putting myself in the WRONG bars"
There are no right bars. That was my point. Some men never get it. The get more money, and then they progress up the bars and clubs. When it comes to women, all bars and clubs are dumpsters. Going to the top bar in a top city, where the champagne is thousands of dollars and comes in a tub with your own table and some red rope to keep the povo's away? Yeah, that just gets you more trash. That gets you expensive gold digger trash sluts.
You totally missed my point.
amazonri 10mo ago
Well it goes both ways. Some upper bars do have more attractive women ratio. IF thats what i need, then thats what i need. I wont find a wife in a bar or club generally speaking, since thats what you are alluding to, i also agree.
My question on this post is more based on just surrounding myself with HB8 though. Even if just for sex or plates, thats fine. From there i can vet them, but thats another story in itself.
Being at these low hanging fruit bars suuucks. Even if just for sex or ONS. I need to surround myself with HB8 concentrated areas to really get my fill or i will have a bad experience otherwise.
So your advice on coming to an upper bar/club for me is true. I shouldnt really come to these language exchange events anymore
NaCl 10mo ago
to score 99-100% you would have to read minds and be pre-calibrated to a person. So you could kill with first stab and fuck HB1 like from the film 'Feed me' if you are into this stuff.
I like the anecdote about JFK, his popularity shot up when he spilled coffee on TV and this way he seemed more approachable.
JamesSkepp Moderator 10mo ago
This is a known known issue with below 8. It's also known that 9s and10s are the nicest and coolest girls ever. This is b/c they have nothing to prove - and they have nothing to prove b/c they already have everything (looks, status, attention, abundance). The 7s dont have it, but they dream about it.
They protect themselves from being rejected by the hot guy. She rejects you first so she cannot be rejected by you. You have to understand that the HB5 dreams and masturbates to a hot guy but statistically speaking she has no chances with him. She understands this, so to keep the dream of snagging a hot guy alive she rejects the hot guys. Once hot guy rejects her she knows she's not the hottie she thinks she is.
Secondly she rejects you b/c if your hot AND smooth (have game) she is afraid she will fuck you TOO fast, meaning she will act slutty in a way she thinks is too much, or that her friend are there to watch her act slutty or that her friends will assume she fucked him ("come on Stacy dont bullshit me you havent fuck THAT guy!")
BabyUareSoSexy 10mo ago
I agree with everything you said, except for your last paragraph. When a girl is genuinely attracted to a guy, she'll do anything to fuck him. Chances are pretty high that OP is not as attractive as he thinks he is. When a girl truly thinks you're hot, she'll be eating out of your hand. There are no games, everything is easy, and there are no shit tests. There's no thing such as being afraid that she will fuck you TOO fast when you're a 9/10 CHAD.
Intrepid_Place53900 10mo ago
yes an no
these girls seem to get it , that the OP is out of their league. He'll pump and dump me, and they aren't going for it.
If a girl thinks she has a chance to LTR you, and really wants you, and thinks pumping you right away will help, she'll do it.
These girls are looking for LTR's, not pump and dump.
amazonri 10mo ago
Of course but it just doesnt make sense to me. For them to reject me when im clearly not rejecting them. I have put in a decent effort into a few of these girls for them to entertain me in my face but hook up with a low mid tier guy later in the night. A guy that would generally look at me like im the Chad. Except he has the girl at the end of the night.
The whole premise of autorejection is simply: rejecting him before he rejects me. But in some cases i am clearly not rejecting her. Its like they reject me because they predict in the future i will reject them. Thats insecure baggage. Its why i have a hard time looking at a hb6 in the face and acting like everythings all good. I know shes calculating in her head about rejecting me or whatever.
JamesSkepp Moderator 10mo ago
They reject you so you cannot reject them. It's as simple as it sounds, ther's nothing nuanced here at all.
Doesn't matter. She has her own experiences and her own interpretations.
Not even in the future, it might be even immediate rejection bu you, hence she acts rude from the start.
Most women are insecure anyway.
amazonri 10mo ago
Its why i only really want hb8.
When. i was younger and lower smv i was able to get lots of hb5-6 pussy here and there. That changed as i matured, got older, got buffer, increased style, better career, became well traveled, tattoo'd etc.
Now its like I need a hb8 to even take my advances seriously, and for me to have a harmonious dating life. In my post, i just said its rare and my dating pool is a lot smaller than the avg guy for this reason.
User4566 10mo ago
I think it's because women at bars and nightclubs can take one look at you and know that you're looking for a fling.