We've all heard the saying, "violence is never the answer". We also all know that's BS. I'm curious where the line is drawn.
Anecdote time: Me and my buddy were at a bar last night, putting a couple back and watching some hockey. There's one pool table in the bar, and we wanted to play a game at intermission. There's a guy and his girlfriend on the table, so we put our quarters on the edge and say we have next game. Buddy and I keep chatting, and the guy comes up and says we have to play him for the table. We explain that's not how it works, but tell him he can play another game, no big deal. There were maybe eight people in the entire bar. He keeps trying to play us individually - following us around when we walk away. Full disclosure, I play competitively and would've wiped the floor with him, but to be honest, I just wanted to hang out with a friend I rarely get to see. As he finally starts walking away, he's calling us gay, pussies, etc.
I've never wanted to turn around and break a bottle over someone's head more than at that very point. As angry as I was, cooler heads prevailed. Truth be told, I was much more worried about the repercussions than actually throwing down. I have a white collar job with a great salary. I can't imagine they'd take kindly to getting arrested, or showing up with cuts and bruises.
The more I think about the incident, the more unsure I become - not so much thinking I should have acted, but unsure about the scenario in general. At what point do you take physical action against someone's disrespect? What are the risks and how heavily would you weigh them in a situation such as this?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3y ago
I just want to say if you can avoid physical conflict avoid it.
There is always a chance you swing for a punch and someone pulls out a gun or a knife.
Don't ever anticipate that a physical throw down I'll end in a predictable, linear manner
MidgetSpinner 3y ago
The guy was essentially a RL troll. Obviously had a huge ego/felt threatened by you in some way, or felt he was better than you and didn't like your look/vibe, and was an ego tripping bully, whatever. That doesn't really matter though. The best response is usually no response with twats like that. Don't give them an ounce of your energy, even if they've pissed you off deep down, don't show it. Keep your cool as you correctly did. The only time it's good to smash cunts like this over the head with a bottle is when they put their hands on you, especially after warning them not to. Other than that, it's best to avoid fighting altogether if it can be helped because anything can happen, even if you're fucking Bruce Lee himself. Always fight in self-defense if it can't be avoided some other way.
Choosing your battles doesn't make you a pussy, it makes you smart. Although, as a man I totally understand not acting on your instinct/urge to beat the fuck out of an idiot can make you feel like a pussy. That's all ego talking. Example: I once had to run from a potential fight because I was outnumbered 3 to 1. I know how to fight; I've been in a few of them throughout my life, but I knew the chances of me winning that fight were very slim, and my instinct was to get the fuck out of there. But like you, I ruminated about it for a day or two after and felt like I made the wrong decision, and that I should have just threw hands with all 3 of them in some pointless scrap where I could have potentially been battered, mugged or worse. Situations like this are an annoying catch 22 when you do what's smart, because you also carry a lot of pride.
apeman 3y ago
You did the right thing
mattyanon Admin 3y ago
Had you punched him you'd be criminally liable.
Guy being a dick will make zero difference to this.
The risks are obvious: losing to him, the rest of the bar jumps in on his side, and even if you win: criminal proceedings against you.
No court will side with you: noone was in physical danger and you started punching. That makes you the aggressor, plain and simple.
Don't fuck up your life for a turn on the pool table.
sketti-os 3y ago
The only fights I've ever been in were controlled (MMA, hockey), so I don't know how it works outside those constraints. Is litigation really that common in altercations like that? I feel like most people I know have been in at least one bar fight in their life and never been to court over it. Then again, maybe they're leaving that part out, or lying about the fight to begin with.
mattyanon Admin 3y ago
It's a risk, not a certainty. What odds of ruining your professional life are acceptable to you?
Most bar fights are ambiguous about who started it..... someone says something, someone gets nudged, there's a push back, then a punch is thrown but it might be in self defence....
Whereas in your case it would be clearly your fault and you instigating it. I picture you in court saying "I didn't like what he was saying and he wouldn't let me have a go on the pool table".
[deleted] 3y ago
[--removed--]
sketti-os 3y ago
It generally depends how its paid for. If it's a pool hall, they'll have the balls behind the counter and you pay for a certain amount of time. You'd usually go to the bar/desk and be put on a waitlist for when someone was finished.
This was a quarter-fed table. I've always looked at it as arcade rules. Seems to be the standard, but every once in a while someone disagrees. Generally you work something out. It's the only table in the bar; you have to expect others will want to hop on at some point.
[deleted] 3y ago
[--removed--]
Lone_Ranger 3 3y ago
There is no 'winning' a bar fight. You either lose (get beaten up, stabbed or shot) or you win and go to jail. This isn't the movies. There are plenty people in wheelchairs of with brain damage from bar fights. The damage usually occurs from falling rather than the punch, or from airway blockage after being out for a couple of minutes.
Avoid any situation which could set you back. If you feel that guys are looking for a fight in that bar, strike it off the list of bars that you go to. Go some place better next time.
hell, go to the best place in town and have coffee. You are a combination of what you read, where you go and who you hang out with. Improve all of those, and you improve yourself.
Sober and not fighting for the win.
You're
User4566 3y ago
He was a drunk slob, ignore the babbling idiot.
dongking 3y ago
Best to just laugh at him in a situation like that. There is literally 0 upside starting a fight with a random loser.
Obviously if he'd get physical first, then you have to defend yourself.
If it ever happens again try your best not to get emotional and into his frame. That's exactly what he's aiming for. So a scuff and then ignore is best solution, like he's no threat at all and you literally couldn't care less about him.
[deleted] 3y ago
[--removed--]
pfeilmacher 3y ago
You should have played him one game for $100
whytehorse2021 3y ago
I'm also a former hockey player, former military, and trained in martial arts. I haven't been in a fight since boot camp 25 years ago. Most of the losers I used to hang with in HS went to jail. The guy I scrapped with in the Army learned a hard, fast lesson in front of the whole squad and I never saw him again or got messed with again.
That being said, I don't resort to violence unless I have no other option and I go in with the intent to kill. So I always have to ask myself if it's worth killing somebody over this situation. For some reason, other guys can detect this and it deters them.
Problematic_Browser 1 3y ago
It's how we walk, how we speak, how we wear our clothes. You can see it if you know what to look for - it's purposeful. Everything serves a function.
Unholy-grail 3y ago
I've always been of the mindset that violence is deployed to end violence. Never strike first.
If someone strikes at you, it's best to pull out the best you got in defending yourself. Even if you have to be dirty. This attacker can and will harm or kill you under circumstance. Defend your life at all costs.
With that said, I once punched a drunk guy very fucking hard and broke his nose, for being a total twat. I remember lots of the blood.
He called the cop that stopped me a nigger earlier that day, so I explained what happened and the cop said nothing and walked away.
Inb4 "fake" sounds fake but I promise, it was real and I'm lucky to not be in jail.
Problematic_Browser 1 3y ago
I fully believe it.
As a black man™, we get shit that our white counterparts don't get for no reason.
A few months ago I was at one of my favorite dive bars (bottle beer only, cash only... So you know it's good) and I was playfully flirting with a woman I know (I'll call her Amy). It's time to go, so her brother scoops her and some random woman up and they leave. I don't think about it and I head home.
About a month later, I run into Amy and she told me that the random woman was calling me all sorts of nigger and even said "you're lucky, he was probably gonna take you back to niggertown and rape you". To Amy's credit, she beat this woman up and left her at a random gas station.
We all had a good laugh, because if you know me I'm not exactly a stereotype, but the fact is that people like to fuck with us for no reason other than that pigment of our skin.
Problematic_Browser 1 3y ago
Violence is a tool that should be employed when it best solves the problem. In this case, it wouldn't have solved anything.