Have you ever questioned why male peak SMV is around 35? Rollo will say it's because of financial reasons. I'm not saying it's not, but why? So I looked at a different stat such as the age of first marriage for men. Right now it's age 30.4. But if you look at 1950 it was more like 22 (boomers). What's even crazier is how perfectly women's age of first marriage tracks men's nearly identically and went from 20 to 28 since the 1950s.
Perhaps our true evolved peak SMV is 25 for men and 23 for women but because of capitalism men are not economically attractive at that age, delaying their lives by 10 years now before they can have mate selectivity. When you compare boomer stats with current stats it becomes pretty obvious. My boomer dad was done with college and military and working a high paying, secure job by the time he was 24. He had no student loans and could afford a starter home and have kids. In other words, he was economically attractive, had status, etc.
Some people will claim it's due to women entering the work force so men make less now but we are now back down to boomer levels of workforce participation rates thanks to the pandemic. The main reason men make less is because wages haven't kept up with inflation and productivity gains.
Some people will claim feminism is making women delay marriage and I'd agree that's why women are delayed in marriage 8 years whereas men are only delayed 6 years. But you can still find women making the argument that men their age aren't economically attractive(until around age 28+3 to 28+7). That's the old stat where women prefer men 3-7 years older.
So now we come to the answer: male peak SMV is drifting older because it is determined by when they are economically attractive and that age is based on the median age at which women first marry plus 3-7 years. At least that's how I see it.
fuegobuttstuff 3y ago
It's not feminism. It's the Triffin Dilemma. If you don't have an understanding of the global monetary (few do) it's hard to grasp but effectively the way the dollar is weaponized globally lead to labor intensive economies exporting their labor to US while the US services industry built out. This increased wealth inequality significantly and is why the manufacturing sector is so upset.
Two options:
1) Bitcoin fixes this in 15-30 years 2) Become part of the wealth elite that benefit from it
whytehorse2021 3y ago
Bitcoin was great as an idea, but impractical in practice. Don't believe me? Go buy a pizza with bitcoin. Be ready to pay $15 transaction fee and wait 4hrs for confirmation for that $10 pizza. Sure you could only pay $1 transaction fee(10%) and get it confirmed in 24hrs.
Bulba 3y ago
Andrew Tate has explained that bitcoin is way more useful for millionaires than it is for ordinary people. Paying a $15 transaction fee and waiting 4 hours is nothing next to waiting several days and going in person to banks to explain why you're trying to transfer millions of dollars to a bank account in another country.
whytehorse2021 3y ago
That's exactly how I see it. Bitcoin offers security as it's #1 use case. Some guy just came up with a new cryptocurrency that solves all of bitcoin's shortcomings. I was waiting for him to release the source code and white paper. I think he has... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashgraph
Bulba 3y ago
The problem is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Bitcoin is secure exactly because of its shortcomings. That's why I'm a Bitcoin maximalist. BTC is not going anywhere.
whytehorse2021 3y ago
I think hashgraph will offer the same security but it needs to be publicly tested and hacked.
Bulba 3y ago
I don’t think there will ever be anything like Bitcoin.
Bitcoin’s founder is anonymous and the most likely candidates to be Satoshi Nakamoto are all dead by now. This is a significant advantage, having a known founder is a huge risk for a coin. Imagine what would happen to the ETH market cap if someone found out that Vitalik Buterin is a pedophile or a neo-Nazi.
fuegobuttstuff 3y ago
You guys need at least 200 more hours of research. The problems with bitcoin you're discussing are due to a lack of understanding. There's quite a bit to grasp to understand how crypto actually works. Bitcoin is a base layer monetary standard for the internet. There are fundamental tradeoffs between security, efficiency, and scalability for any cryptocurrency. Bitcoin is optimized for security at the base layer (as it should be). Anything that claims to be secure and more efficient/scalable is a lie and why the market is full of shit scams. It's like say your thin and strong at the same time. We need a secure base layer at the bottom and more efficient payment layers and scalable layers that provide utility are being built out on top. This will take time (hence 15-30 years in my OP). Ethereum is trying to provide all of these benefits in a single layer which is simply not possible. That's why it's centralized (aka insecure) and being censored by OFAC sanctions. Go read some books on bitcoin, understand how this revolution is actually going to work. Ignore retards on youtube that use big words and buzz words to sound like they know what they're talking about. The Bitcoin Standard, Layered Money, and The 7th Property are a good places to start. It will change your life.
Bulba 3y ago
That's exactly what I think, I just didn't have the energy to put it into words like you did. But that's it, just buy bitcoin and ignore the noise.
Peter_Henderson 3y ago
First of all, 35 isn't for everybody. It's just an average.
Let's say at age 40 you win the lottery and lose 200 pounds and hire a personal trainer and train at the gym 5 days per week for 90 minutes. You'll peak around age 42 rather than 35.
whytehorse2021 3y ago
Right. Justin Bieber was economically attractive in his 20s but that's not the experience for the majority of men.
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hornetsfalcons12 3y ago
Yeah, part of it is the service sector economy and the fact that you aren’t shit in this world until much older ages (compare to small town, working class jobs of the GI generation, where a few months of training sets you up to be productive and economically viable). The dating market is no longer your immediate area, it’s the city, county, state, region, country, even the globe. Average mid 20’s dude is going to be a nobody compared to older men that will be trying to pick up the same women he wants.
Feminism also plays a part. Before, women really wanted to marry young and start their adult life. Now women want college and career and the like, before they “settle down” (whether they’re doing so because it’s what they really want to do deep down, baby rabies, or because this “empowered” life of working themselves into the ground after running up massive education debt is not as fun as they were promised and they need a man to save them depends on the woman). There’s a LOT of actually physically attractive women in their mid, even late 20’s, who are single. This wasn’t a thing a few generations ago, when they’d have been snatched up and made 2-3 kids already, because men would work themselves into the ground in order to get that as a mother of their children. Many women aren’t even thinking of finding a husband until around this age.
As someone who is conservative and wanted marriage, family, and kids to be the leader of, the dating market in my 20’s was insanely disheartening. You basically had zero shot unless you were Chad, or willing to compromise significantly on things like looks. But hey, at least it means that instead of getting that 25 year old hottie when you’re 25 and watching her blow up like a balloon because she doesn’t value you enough to try, you get her at 35 and she actually sees you as a prize.
Bulba 3y ago
Besides what others have already said, there's another factor. Many men are chasing high-paying jobs that bring almost no social status. These are usually very recent professions that didn't exist a few decades ago.
Last week on Reddit I saw an Asian short guy complaining that he is an incel while he earns close to 1M a year at Citadel as a quant dev. So unless this guy gets a Lambo he won't get any bitches because nobody has a clue about what he does for a living.
Of course, I'm making an overstatement. He doesn't need to get a Lambo or a Bugatti and become Andrew Tate, but you get what I mean. Compare this to traditional careers that men used to pursue in the past where money walked hand in hand with social status, like being a doctor or a lawyer.
craftsmanmindset 3y ago
Can you link the post that's interesting?
Bulba 3y ago
It has already been deleted / removed ( as usual on Reddit ). But you can still read it here https://www.reveddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/z62jzc/job_statusmoney_doesnt_matter_anymore/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
craftsmanmindset 3y ago
thanks brother
Intrepid_Place53900 1 3y ago
Lot of different topics discussed in your thread.
I'll focus on (male peak smv drifting older, why)?
I'd argue this is kinda irrelevant. It's by individual, not a group.
some reason guys are more attractive (as a whole) to women as they get into mid/late 30's.
They can still be in shape, hot, if they are taking care of themselves. They typically earn more money, established in their career,etc. *they've gained experience, especially with women.
So, many men don't get the relationship skills, etc, until years after women have it all figured out. Now, many men honestly don't "care" to learn it either, they are focused on pussy, on their job, having fun,etc, not on relationships with women.
But, as you get into your 30's, life changes, you party boy's are all gone, in relationships,etc, you are working hard, not a lot of time,etc. so, I'd argue, it's that men actually start prioritizing relationships at this age and that's why they become attractive to women for relationships, because they are open to it and are focusing on it now, instead of just puss.
Your other comments, yes, feminism delays women wanting to settle down. They should have their (fun) with guys, they should get their career so they dont' need men,etc. All true. Many women don't want to just get out of college, they want to get their advanced degrees before (settling) down. Ok, so those girls are late 20's now at least.
The fact that in this age group , women earn more than men, is going to make things even worse for guys.
You'll hear, read that women don't care if you don't make as much as them, etc. bull shit, is what I call that. Women care for sure, the less you make than her, the more of an issue it will be.
Hypergamy , pure and simple.
helpfulguy22 3y ago
Good points but one question, if in your 30s you are only attractive to women for relationships what is the point? Let’s be honest is if that is our prime as a man, most men want to use that prime (atleast for a little while) to sleep with as many women as they can before settling down, just like how most women these days use their prime. If I am only attractive for relationship in my 30s prime years, won’t that mean it will be harder for me to get sex? Because even if I have many more options than I did in my 20s, all these options are going to restrict their pussy to get a relationship out of me. Where as in my 20s even if it was far less options, most were just looking for casual sex. This point can also go if u date younger women, if u are 35 and say talking to a 23 year old she will 100% try to get a relationship out of you and hold out sex, where as she will more likely give up sex to a physically attractive guy that’s in his 20s.
I hope you understand my question and what I’m trying to ask, would like your opinion on this. Thanks !
Intrepid_Place53900 1 3y ago
Oh, boy, that's a loaded question there. I mean that's the biggest issue today with young guys who actually want a relationship. (I'm FAR from being a young guy BTW).
You aren't looking at this correctly however.
Let's look at the female view on this stuff.
A guy has to meet a certain level of physical attraction for her to view him as a sexual interest. Period, you either meet this level or you don't.
Now, once you've met this level, how much higher do you meet that level, are you a smoking hot 10? A very hot 9?, A real good looking 8?
so, a girl has Dual mating strategy, just like guys do, let's be honest on that.
For Casual sex, you have to be very attractive to her. But it can also be the right place, the right time, the right mood,etc. Maybe she's just freaking horny, time of month and you were a guy in the right place , that she got good vibes from and now wants you to bang her head against the wall.
For relationship, you have to meet an attraction level, but definitely other things. Mutual values, Goals in life, conversational, money/job, kids/family, etc. All of that shit comes into play , for relationships, NOT for casual sex.
Girls will say over an over, that Those casual guys weren't hotter than you, none of them will admit they were. Now, were they? Maybe, it depends upon if she got lucky with you, are you hot and also have everything needed for a relationship? If you are honestly a 8,9,10 maybe you are like the hottest guy she had. TBH, if you are close, you will be viewed that way because of the relationship factor. It's only when a girl has a guy who's like a 6 or so, and has been with many guys who are 8 or 9, that it's like, no way, he's by far NOT the hottest guy you've been with.
That's one of the big issues today as I've mentioned. With Tinder and the hook up culture. These girls go for the "hottest" guys they can get. The guy that has (the looks) that they like, specific looks, like muscular, or tall or whatever. So, the hook up with these guys, but they themselves are a 5 or 6. Hooking up with guys who are like 8 and above. They aren't gonna end up with that 8 guy, they are gonna end up with a 5 or 6 guy, your Typical Joe AVG guy.
so, your question (if in your 30's you are only attractive to women for relationships, what's the point)?
Again, it really depends on what the girl is looking for, LTR or casual or both. Remember, most women say they are looking for LTR only, but in actuality they still hookup with hot guys, if the situation is right.
So, if you are hot, in your 30's, they won't view you as only LTR, that's up to you. If they see you have money, you have your shit together, you can manage a conversation, they may say, shit this guy is hot, but he's also LTR material.
Some girls will hold out sex, trying to get you hooked on them. Some girls will love bomb you some girls will just hit you on the 3rd date and see if you stick around.
Girls in their 20's will always (as a %) be more interested in casual sex than girls in their 30's, older you get, less casual. These 20's Girls will always (as a %) be more sexually attracted to guys in their 20's, than other age groups. But, if you are hot in your 30's, it doesn't mean they wont' be attracted to you. Shit, many girls in 20's, are more attracted to guys a bit older, so it's not crazy here to see them being hot for a guy who's in 30's. But, if you have love handles and going bald, well, don't expect them to get wet.
If it worries you them seeing you as a provider. Then don't show your money, let them know you aren't interested in LTR,etc. But, you know that will rule out more an more women the older you get, the lower your SMV is.
My view was always, sure I'm interested in a LTR, but in no hurry to get in one. I didn't hit girls that I didn't think it was at least a possibility, yes I ruled out many women real quick.
Positive-Lifeguard80 3y ago
No, not at all. "Relationships" are entirely out of the window for me. Girl wants a bang from a 30+ guy to check off some bucket list? Fine. Girl wants to live with me? "What are we?" Yeah, get lost!
I have way too much going on in my life to encumber it with a relationship. You know, "relationships are hard work", but I already have lots of work to do. More important work, more rewarding work. Women under 25 just get utterly confused, when I don't set up a third date, because they missed the put-out window.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 3y ago
They are entirely out the window , for you.
Many guys, in their 30's, get tired of the pussy train, party days,etc and want to settle down for many different reasons. LTR, kids,etc.
Not everyone, but many , and this includes many "hot" guys, that the girls couldn't get in their 20's to go into a LTR.
So, even though the guy is in his 30's now, maybe he's not quite as physically hot as in 30's, but he's ready for a LTR.
Women under 25, who are confused you didn't setup a 3rd date, is because they are looking for more than a smash. You know the deal, if you did setup a 3rd date, you'd probably get it, but then there's probably some expectations and you don't want to deal with that.
No problem there, you are doing what you want. You are filtering girls out who will do what you want also.
Positive-Lifeguard80 3y ago
No, these are women in 30s, not "guys". Men like these don't exist except in the fever dreams of WAATGM women trying to find a provider after hitting the wall.
My main demographic is guys in their 30s and beyond, and no-one, I repeat no-one is looking for a LTR with kids. Weddings are DEAD. And this boils down to exactly two reasons:
They are already married/cohabitating with a woman with children and don't need another one ever in their life.
No, women under 25 are not looking for "more than a smash". They are confused, because they probably never ever encountered a guy above their own SMV and try to put someone through the grind, who doesn't have to do it.
And that's their problem, not mine. You don't date 30+ peak SMV guys and don't put out. That's a pure waste of time. No one looking to get into the friendzone, because women beside their fertility features we men like to enjoy are boring. The stuff they like to talk about is boring, their emotional instability is annoying and all the mandatory appointments your girlfriend likes to set up for you, because that's part of being in a long-term relationship is just tiring. That's not something you want in your life, when you have something better to do with your time, including having lots of sex.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 3y ago
disagree Lifeguard80
Many men, get tired of chasing pussy in their 30's. It gets boring, tiring, to chase after girls to just smash.
their are guys who actually want kids guys who just want to be in a stable LTR guys who are just tired of wasting time in the hookup scene
Its fun in your 20's, when you get into 30's, often your bro's are gone, they are in LTR's, etc. You are in an established career and work long hours, don't have the time for it.
Sure, (some) guys are totally not interested in a LTR, they are only in it for the quick hookup, rush of a new girl,etc. NO problem with that. If that's what they want, they should be doing it.
Your comment (No, women under 25 are not looking for (more than a smash), they are confused because they probably never encountered a guy above their own SMV who doesn't have to do it).
I think what you are saying is that a girl never encountered a guy above them , who won't put up with waiting.
Sorry Lifeguard80, most girls definitely have. Think about it, all the stories about girls saying, they never got a 2nd or 3rd date, etc. It's because she didn't put out and he didnt' want to wait. That's exactly why they are making you wait for 3 dates for example, they want to know it's for more than a smash. They are confused because they assumed you were interested in them, but you only wanted a smash. That's how they filter guys who actually are interested from those not. these are the guys they call "jerks", because she was interested , you were only interested in the smash.
Is it worth going for that 3rd date or until they are ready to smash? That's up to you of course and the specific girl.
You mention women are boring and you aren't interested in being in a relationship. That's ok, everyone should do what they want.
Me, I got tired of casual sex real fast, one of the reasons was it was a waste of resources/time for me. I had some FWB type relations, those were good, but they always wanted more.
My first go around, I wanted kids, so did the traditional thing. Didn't work out great with marriage, but got my boys. Was worth it for me, but again, we are all different.
I was too busy, working too much, to always be hunting for more smash. Wanted a more regular deal and the relationship. That's just me though, we are all different.
I definitely don't put up with shit though, and my current girl knows it and was warned about it. I also don't "pay" for her, she pay's her own way and there's no ring at the end of the road, she knows that too.
Everyone is different, and what you want changes as you get older sometimes also.
Key is to know what you want, and stick to it, what makes you happy, makes life enjoyable.
Positive-Lifeguard80 3y ago
You're coping in someone else's thread.
User4566 3y ago
Because older men are much more capable of being fathers to children.
whytehorse2021 3y ago
Not necessarily. Having a kid in my 40s was pure hell compared to my 30s and I bet it would've been a breeze in my 20s. I doubt I could afford kids in my 20s but a few generations ago that wasn't a problem.
Positive-Lifeguard80 3y ago
Rollo's famous SMV chart was made up, as he stated himself. But we have real data, too:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aap9815
And what that 2018 study tells, is that older men just own the world and women just fucking crash starting from puberty:
https://www.science.org/cms/10.1126/sciadv.aap9815/asset/3bd0b25c-e37c-49d1-b908-2248738e492b/assets/graphic/aap9815-f2.jpeg
So it's much more extreme than Rollo predicted.
whytehorse2021 3y ago
I know he made it up and then was accidentally vindicated by later studies but I'm asking about the drift. I'm pretty sure it's because of stagnant wages with increasing cost of living. It kind of puts an upper limit on capitalism as women wait longer and longer because men take longer and longer to become economically attractive. What happens when women are waiting until menopause to settle and have kids? No more kids. No more workers. We've already crossed the threshold into a declining population, even if we include new immigrants.
Positive-Lifeguard80 3y ago
That's because they are able to "wait" using hormonal contraception.
Contraception crashes the whole system of monogamous matriarchy with no survivors. And capitalism, nation states and everything else with it.
I already posted about that elsewhere - how we are going back to polygynous patriarchy.