This is an update from my ex that flaked on me 3 times in a row. One of them was isolated, two were within 24 hrs of losing her cat. I didnt reach out after the break up technically, I just didnt respond to her "Are you serious?" until the next day.
The only reason is because i had a second thought that maybe i dumped her in grieving, as some other posters here told me that may have been the case.
Basically I believed I was being what blue pillers call "Slow faded" when a girl is politely falling out of the relationship without confrontation, making excuses etc. But I heard when that happens you can break up with them they will accept it gracefully because they were purposely pushing you to break up. The thing is slow faders become cold on text and stop texting you enthustiastically and frequently hoping you get the hint. This was not the case for me. She said she was gonna make it up to me, called me daddy, etc.
But when I broke up with her she begged me to stay with her, that shes complicated, etc and she needs attention (red flag). I asked her if she was grieving from the loss of her grandma and cat, and she told me yes she is. I told her why couldnt you tell me that before, instead of saying "Im sad. Im very sad" etc and she told me because its really hard to do.
I just didnt reply from there, because I had to sit on that for a few days. At this point we have been broken up for 5 days but I think the door is still open since she wants me to stay. She has been posting heart broken memes and the usual, that girls normally do. Which makes me think that she wasnt ghosting me, actually.
Some people advised me to dump her asap, some said give it a bit of time just in case shes telling the truth, and some said she is indeed grieving and maybe needs a bit of time to process it and its normal for people to be distant in times like this. Especially women who are emotional creatures of the present moment.
I understand that taking her back would be a loss of frame, but if there was a genuine misunderstanding and it was a good relationship before, Im willing to put my pride to the side and take her back for one last chance. I know there will probably be some damage done, but it is what it is.
What can I say to take her back... Im confused on whether i should grant her exclusive privileges right away since it was a misunderstanding, or is it TRP law to make her work back up from demotion? Should I require that she meets up with me in person before making anything official, or is this a good time to make demands she needs to abide by before agreeing to LTR again. Im also open to waiting 1-2 more weeks to open up communication again just because, but im also not sure if that will change the tides for the better or worst given the circumstance of misunderstanding.
Im just moving off the basis that there was a misunderstanding, which would imply that i misread the situation and made a bad judgment call.
Its just complicated because if she cheated on me for example, I could easily walk away from the relationship. But i dumped her, and theres that 25% chance eating at me that maybe she was being honest about grieving. I dont think its fair to break up over a miscommunication on my part. I read on the TRP sidebar that any negatives on the relationship are the man's responsibility as the captain. Im basically only dumping her for 3 flakes, 2 of which happened within a 24 hour span when her cat escaped.
Based off her begging for me to stay, and not being seemingly pissed about my reaction I think I can take her back with minimal damage. How do I go about this? Do i tell her i made a mistake, or it was all an understanding, or do i go ultra-alpha and demand more X, Y, Z if she ever wants me back.
P.S. I also fear her baiting me for closure and then rejecting me for revenge if shes really hurt or found what i did to be very unattractive and made her light-switch. Or this looking like im needy, begging for her back. I guess its worth it for my own conscience, i would rather get spitefully rejected and move on then think what if.. There is also the chance of looking like an absolute fool that she was actually ghosting me and i want her back, giving her the last laugh.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3y ago
I think you still fundamentally misunderstand the level of comfort and rapport needed for a relationship. You're asking us how alpha you should go after destroying all the comfort and rapport that distinguishes an actual relationship from a purely or mostly sexual partner like a plate or FWB. That says a lot.
I think the initial domino reaction that led to all of this to begin with also stemmed from the same fundamental misunderstanding of what LTR game is supposed to be like
What will taking her back change? You say there is a 25% chance she wasn't lying about grieving when literally your entire relationship was flake-free until her grandma died. How is the rest of your relationship going to go if every emotional obstacle you come across is perceived as a sign that she's about to cheat/flake and that the reaction to it is to debate going alpha?
I don't think you should demote a girl over a genuine misunderstanding. Also though, I think ending the relationship pretty much broke your chances of it being the same. 5 days is stretching it for getting back together
If you do take her back, you will have to deal with a lot of frame loss as you said. How will you react if she flakes again? How will you react if she mentions "that one time you broke up with her"? These are all questions you're going to have to continue asking yourself if they occur.
I'm answering this late at night so it's perhaps not my greatest articulation of these points. But that's the gist of my take
Edit: yes, being alpha and red-pilled is a huge part of keeping an LTR in check and keeping her turned on, but there is a small slice of the LTR pie that should be slightly beta in a socially calibrated manner. LTR game isn't being alpha Chad 24/7
Edit 2: I also think you lack some empathy. Most of your post discusses your own ego or self-esteem. Some mention of conscience, but it doesn't seem genuine. You need empathy to have a functioning LTR and there just seems to be very little empathy about all the shit she's been going through these last few weeks. You need that in a relationship
bymxco 3y ago
Im going to contact her tomorrow. Based off your response it sounds like I can get back with her under the premise that she would go straight to exclusive status - but im going to have to deal with whatever fallout occurs in the future. I would rather deal with that then break up indefinitely as over you said, her first few flakes during an emotional phase in her life.
I just dont know what to reply back, do I tell her it was a misunderstanding. Also, its going to be weird taking her back without actually meeting up in person, which i imagine will probably be the issue again since its why we broke up to begin with. She told me she needs attention, so im assuming if we get back she would want my attention (read:support) from afar until shes ready to hang out. Is this a rare time to say "Im sorry" or do I just tell her it was a misunderstanding and make mends from there and support her from afar.
"How can I help and make a difference?" would probably be a nice tone-setter coming back in from my mistake.
It jus sucks because i had intentions on being beta from the start, giving her comfort and taking her out on a weekend trip outdoors in nature outside of town. Its just a big fumbled misunderstanding.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3y ago
I don't know that I said anything conveying the likelihood of being able to get back together, apart from that 5 days did more harm than good. I was just saying what would likely happen if you did get back together, which is a damaged relationship
I don't know what you two's conversational dynamics are. I wouldn't be able to come up with what to say
Obviously you're going to more than likely take a massive frame hit if you want to get back together. More than likely you'll have to explain that you misunderstood her distance as losing interest (which will make you obviously not feel like you're the prize.) She's gonna know you didn't view yourself as the prize.
You're ultimately gonna lose some attraction from her having to explain yourself. That was the price of dumping her and going back.
You're also going to have to deal with a fuck ton of comfort tests for the long foreseeable future and she'll probably always hold this against you in some way, shape, or form. This is probably going to be an insecurity she always holds going forward. Can't blame her
There really isn't a red-pilled way of taking back a girl, even if you were the one who dumped her, because of all the comfort and beta shit you're gonna have to do to restore trust and comfort
bymxco 3y ago
Its hilarious this all happened from my failed soft next, isnt it?
Anyways im learning LTR game. Cutting her off ultimately came from a high value perspective of not chasing though. I think I can twist around the "im the prize" part by saying "it was a misunderstanding, I thought you were wasting my time, I misread the situation, Ive only seen you once in X etc." obviously more polished phrasing.
I did a lot of these things out of self love, it sucks. I soft nexted out of self-respect and valuing my time, I broke up with her out of self-respect and valuing my time not being strung along. Maybe these things are too "alpha fucks" in womanese though. To be fair i offered to be there for her in many different ways, so i think she would understand i tried. Lets be honest here, she is not helping the situation, her communication here is just as bad as mine is, but i wont blame it on her when we talk. Shes leaving a lot of guesswork and reading between the lines up to me.
My last question before asking her, is should I ask her to meet up to talk, given the irony of the flakes.
Ill let you know how she responds tomorrow.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3y ago
More than likely. Could have been handled way differently
I still think what you're planning on saying to her is too alpha fux "I thought you were wasting my time" is a bad response to that she grieved and picked up a shift at work. I think it's tone deaf.
I think you're overly preoccupied with looking alpha. I don't know why you're trying to be alpha when she probably feels like absolute shit this month and at this moment.
Meeting in person is better. Should angle for that. You need to first accept the real possibility your relationship is fucked though. Perhaps you can salvage it but it's damaged and going to be damaged
Also, you're reading way too far into my comment about being the prize. You're gonna damage a lot of the fundamentals of good frame by getting back with her. I was merely giving one example
bymxco 3y ago
Heres an update:
Me: I think it was all a misunderstanding. Its not fair to do what i did, if you were sad. Can you forgive me?
Her: I dont know why you do these things. You only think about yourself.
Me: I am very difficult to understand. Its because Ive only seen you once in 3 weeks.
Her: I forgive you. But i feel that we only meetup when you want to. Sometimes I text to see you and you dont respond (not true, entirely). Its happened a few times.
I wasnt planning on making some demands, but she handed it on a silver platter to me. Also she rarely initiates hang outs, if ever. Im always doing all the heavy carrying of logistics. I didnt like that, but she never flaked before this so i dealt with it. I found it a good opportunity to make it clear she needs to work on this, wasnt planning on it but she handed the silver opportunity for me to say this. This time i made it very clear: Do This.
Me: Yes, only because sometimes i feel it is one-sided. I prefer we both make an effort to see each other. Text me first more to see me.
Her: *sad sulky face emoji. I will try my best. I love you so much
Is her response a red flag... "I will try my best"... is kind of like "ill let you know". Im trying to take your advice and not view things as black and white, but the proper response is "I will do that" not "ill try my best". Anyways Sounds like we are back together almost. I have not written back since this response. Its probably proper to reciprocate some comfort after what i did "Ok babe, I love you too."
Im going to set up logistics soon. maybe tomorrow, since its a bit late where i am.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3y ago
I think you're overthinking it.
You probably do give off vibes that you only hang out when you want to. I could see based on her response that you probably do blow off any plans with her that make you feel less alpha. I would drop the plate game and do some things she wants to do some times. That comes with being in an LTR.
Obviously don't do plans you despise but you gotta throw LTRs a bone here and there. A captain who never listens to his first mates ever, despite being in charge, will get a mutiny at some point. You can't captain your way over everything all the time
I do get the vibe that a lot of your LTR is plate game.
Honestly man, I don't know why you're expecting anything more than "I'll do my best" after you just dumped her. I think you should be natural and attempt to take it one step at a time and with less plate game
Obviously don't become a simp or beta but relationships require a bit of calibration and sacrifice to make them work
You should probably give your expectations of what you think an LTR looks like and be somewhat receptive to feedback she gives you about how you are in relationships
bymxco 3y ago
Interesting turn of events: She used me for closure then dumped me.
Her: I will try my best. I love you so much.
Me: I love you too, you mean a lot to me. Has Yeras returned? (her cat)
Her: Not yet *heartbroken emoji
Her: Im in a moment of crisis and im not sure if i want to be with someone, I dont feel good and I wont give 100%, I love you and love being with you but I dont want to waste your time. Its complicated
I knew writing her today was gonna give her closure and the upper hand, but i did it for my own closure. I can live with this. I have not responded yet, but theres nothing i can say to bring her back, I understand that.
I believe she has branch swung if im being honest. If im being 100% honest im not sure if shes telling the truth about the cat, it seems i didnt catch the hint and pushed her to be blunt. The truth is women never tell the truth about why they broke up, so that show i know its not her in "crisis". Women need beta providers in crises, since alpha fucks and chads wont give them comfort. The truth is i was probably back up plan when she starte flaking on me. Then I lost all attraction with the breakup/closure and she didnt even want me as a backup plan.
It hurts but at least i wont spend the previous week thinking about What If.. I can also know 100% No Contact is the way from here. The reason why I hit her back up was because there was a misunderstanding and fuck up on my part.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3y ago
That sucks. Honestly though, I still think you nexting her fucked up a lot.
And then waiting 5 days have her a lot of time to try to move on
Maybe she did branch swing, but I still maintain that you destroyed all the necessary comfort for an LTR
bymxco 3y ago
The only part thats going to fuck with my head is no signs of a dying relationship. Im going to become paranoid in the future.
When there are signs of a dying relationship, you mentally prepare or expect for a break up/branch swing. Or you recognize the signs and fix the fuck-up.
If im being 100% honest with you, all i can think about is what beta things ive done to lose attraction. I know you are emphasizing im running plate game, too alpha for ltr, etc. But my mind is automatically shifting towards what beta things did she discover? I just dont think women leave alphas. Its more that the alphas became beta.
Yes I failed some comfort tests majorly at the end, but apparently she was most likely branch swinging before the flakes. So now im thinking i was beta somehow or someway, before this.
My mind is automatically thinking she branch swung me and lied about the grieving. Instead of her actually grieving and me failing comfort tests.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3y ago
You killed your own relationship. You don't need to look for the signs of your own choices
Even after all of this you still don't seem to see how relationships work. I've seen guy after guy on this forum ruin relationships from running plate game on their LTR.
Every time, it's some dude nexting his girl for a week, every time, without fail.
You tried being too Chad. When she was actually grieving you ran plate game on it
I'm genuinely shocked that you still don't see the problem with your actions
You're obviously incredibly determined to not look beta, to the degree that being beta would have been better than what you were doing to avoid being beta
You need to drop the alpha bravado. It killed your relationship. Right now you're looking for signs of being too beta in the rubble if being too alpha
Stop looking for signs of branch swinginy when YOU were the one that dicked yourself over.
You're not going to find shit, YOU did this to YOURSELF
bymxco 3y ago
I meant she probably thought i was sensitive/butthurt for soft nexting her first flake. Im just trying to see the other side of the coin. At what point do you punish though? Shes flaked once in a blue moon before, but i was very gracious and she offered a reschedule without me asking.
Do you recommend never using soft flakes on LTR's then? It makes sense that non-red pill guys in the real world with girlfriends (who are most likely the guys most women are dating) are probably unaware of the soft next concept so it probably is a rare, toxic damaging thing to do.
I just thought that women never cut ties unless they have their replacement ready, in a LTR context. In casual dating, they do cut ties because theyre technically already single to begin with. Is this yet another autistic TRP belief that women dont end things and simply become single again?
master-of-losers 3y ago
Soft nexts are fine in LTRs, but don't make them 5 days long. Lack of attention is incredibly painful to girls. However, girls are also quick to move on after the initial pain. Wait maybe 1.5-2x the time that it would normally take you to respond. She WILL notice and she will be in a moment of maximal pain and longing for you, so then reaching out to her will give her lots good emotions and get her more addicted. If you reach out too late, she won't be feeling the pain and longing so much anymore.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3y ago
Which is why you shouldn't have reacted like a sperg. You nexted her for a whole week for something she rarely did. After someone in her family just died
You need to own that. That on its own was a disastrous mistake and you keep trying to hamster away from that fact like it was self-righteous
I don't recommend them. Plates are purely for sex. If a plate annoys you, you can ignore them and they will notice the sex tap has turned off. With LTRs, they are going to sit there wondering if their whole relationship is over. That's why you don't do it.
No, women fear rejection too. You cut contact with her several times while she was experiencing a lot of shit in her life. Women will not stick around forever even if they don't have a replacement, if their emotional state is so bad they can't put up with it anymore.
Like men, women like to get ahead of the curve as well and abandon a guy before he can cut ties with her, too. AWALT isn't literal, don't think every single woman is doing an exact copy paste of other women like branch swinging.
Stop thinking AWALT in certain situations and actually try to communicate and read what is happening in your specific situations before assuming your LTR is doing something sketch
You literally gave her almost no logical reason to stay with you. You went no contact numerous times in an LTR. You need to talk to an LTR, that's rule zero in relationships and you broke that several times WHILE she was in a grief period
You should be punishing for shit behavior, not unavailability. If your girl is unavailable, you need to find out why. And she told you why, she picked up one shift at work.
If you are at a point in a relationship where you genuinely have to punish a girl, she's not someone you should be in an LTR with. If a girlfriend is acting so poorly she needs to be punished, then it's not going well
Have some empathy next time for what your girl is going through. She literally said "please don't get mad" when she cancelled and then that's exactly what you did, which was get mad and ditch her for a while week
I cannot understate how badly that week long next damaged your relationship
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bymxco 3y ago
Its just that weeks prior to the break up, when she was flaking and grieving, I would often see her on Whatsapp. Almost to the degree it looked like she was communicating and doing things.
The chances of her grieving and being isolated in a dark room is pretty slim to none. Most likely she feels like shit but is able to work, do things, grocery shop, hang with family and friends.
She was constantly online on Whatsapp, I imagine talking to people, including on weekends. I will never know what truly happened on her side, but all I know is i handled it very badly and killed my relationship.
At this point she said "Im in a moment of crisis, Im not feeling well, etc etc" so it sounds like there may be an excuse for her to come back and say "shes feeling better"... although unlikely, may be some copium.
Like I said I am going no contact, but its tough right now. Especially because i did this to myself.
I know you cannot answer this, but do you think she will come back after no contact? Or did I ruin any relationship value here. Just curious, since we did enjoy our time together otherwise she wouldve rebelled against me via shit tests, bitchiness, sex withdrawl, disrespect.
Its really my last hope for now, Ive already seen another girl last night, but i couldnt help but compare her body and quality of sex and personality to my ex. They just didnt compare, and its not oneitis, she was perfectly my type.
Sometimes these plates are attractive but the way they laugh or small things like that turn you off.
whytehorse2021 3y ago
The general rule of married/LTR red pill is to own your mistakes. It's more alpha to genuinely apologize for a mistake you've made than to try to hamster a rationale for it. The problem you've got is you don't know if you made a mistake because you don't communicate with your woman. I could understand if she's like my wife and DOESN'T SPEAK ENGLISH, but come on. You had a legit grief about flaking and instead of setting boundaries you just yeeted the whole relationship. Yeah you could take her back and set boundaries but you're going to have to establish clear communication to keep going forward.
Durek_The_Bald 3y ago
I think first of all, you need to start working towards becoming "your own mental point of origin" (ref. Rollo Tomassi). That means, take a chill pill, read more side bar material, lift, and focus on your own goals and wants in life independently of your girlfriend (or this community for that matter). Don't try and do red pill on express mode, as if there's some sort of catch-all recipe for what to say and how to behave in every little specific situation.
Throughout all of your posts on this matter with your girlfriend, there's a recurring theme, and that theme is "validation seeking". You seem to be spending an awful amount of brain power on figuring out ways to get validation from her. And then you come on here, asking what you "should" do with this and "should" do with that, which is just as validation seeking, as if you need our approval to do anything at all, or try out whatever might or might not work for you.
You're far too reactive, far too caught up in every little detail that might or might tell you something about whether your girlfriend is attracted to you or not, and you're missing the bigger picture, the underlying baseline, which is to have inner game. It's like you're constantly walking on eggshells, scared that your behaviour might not be "red pill" or "alpha" enough. And then you want us to say: "It's ok, you can do this and you can do that". Validation seeking, approval seeking.
Relax, and don't go hunting with a magnifying glass for signs and symbolism as to whether you're "too beta", "lost frame", getting "soft nexted by LTR" or whichever red pill concept you're obsessing about at any given time. Chill with all the buzzwords and catch phrases, I mean mentaly speaking, inside your mind. This is what people mean when they say not to be "autistic" about TRP. Happens to guys on here all the time.