There is no red pill secret sauce for tinder openers. "Hey name. I like your style/hair/smile/big ass" or something short and personalised based on a picture.
Be interesting, cool, low investment, dont fall into her frame. Use sexual subtext to gauge interest level. Close quickly or move on to the next girl. If you stop getting responses reinitiate after a few days to see if they bite.
I might turn this into a post or might not, hence the length and level of detail. I wrote it in post format to test the waters
I have a disclaimer at the end of the post saying this is certainly not a better approach than getting a girl to come straight over (IF you can routinely pull that off), so there's that. But this tends to be far more effective for me for a broader range of girls
I have tried perfecting an approach that I think most guys on here would downvote me for, but it works for me well, has gotten me laid, and I've only ever gotten one flake using it but that's because I changed the venue day of and it probably ruined my plans. Girls almost always ask me if the plans are on still the day of (they anti-flake check me, I rarely have to).
My opener is counterintuitive to the Red Pill but I think there are valid explanations for why it works even though it's not red-pilled at face value.
My go to opener is to look at every picture and their bio thoroughly and to come up with 2-3 rich comments (each comment could be about a different photo or not, doesn't matter). By rich I just mean the quality of them is good, but not long, and (notably) different than what at least 80% of guys send
I think it works so well for me because if she has already swiped on you and matched with you, she already has an attraction and apart from that, she knows every guy that deliberately swipes on her already wants to fuck her.
Unlike cold approach or introducing yourself to a girl for the first time in person, girls on tinder who match with you on purpose have already determined they see you as fuckable.
Dating apps distort the courting process because they begin your interaction with a girl on the premise that you two would and might fuck each other if it gets that far. However, you are an online stranger. To her, you could be a catfish, a psycho, a guy that rapes and drugs his dates, etc.
Because tinder starts her off on a fuck-possible premise, displaying social competence and other desirable qualities in a non-needy manner erases barriers to her meeting you, and thus possibly fucking you.
(If your SMV is so high that she would just come straight over, or if she is just a horny slut with disregard of strangers, or both) no need to regard the above logic. But most guys aren't going to get that outcome with that approach.
So my openers are all unique for each girl but have the following qualities:
•emotionally stimulating words (example, referring to photo scenery as stunning rather than nice)
•comment seems genuine and not contrived
•touches on things girls girls are going to be intrigued in or passionate about
•fun
•demonstrates social competence/intelligence
What my rich comments are not:
•simpy, they do not boost their egos at all
•needy, opener conveys no sense that I'm eager for them to reply or connect with me
•(Over)invested, the opener does not convey that I've already decided to see them or that I'm thinking way too much about them
Additionally, I almost never directly mention them in the opener, my openers might tangentially mention them in it, but no superficial compliments about their attractiveness or over-emphasis on them.
I usually zero in on a theme in their bio or photos and will mention them in the context of that, but not solely them. Exception is if there is something very unique about the girl, thus making it genuine why you'd comment on it.
I don't know roughly how many characters I average or technicals, but my openers are usually 2-3 decent sized sentences, not a paragraph though. At least one of them is and should be a question, sometimes two.
I have been balsy before and sent about 5 sentences but felt reason to in that instance. She ended up suggested making dinner in her kitchen for the first date, it wasn't even my suggestion, she said it on her own, so take that as you will.
Girls more times often then not send me a paragraph back or more. It's not uncommon for them to double the length of what I sent them.
Their (often lengthy) first response back to me gives me a direct shortcut to figure out which stimulating topic to go straight to after one message, instead of having to throw darts down a crapshoot hoping I hit a bullseye. It's a fucking cheat code.
Rich responses also ensure that for barely much more effort on your part, you can have 7-10 messages worth of content after only 3. And the girls feel like they know you enough by the 4th message when you propose a date. It's so low effort.
My next response makes sure to select a theme that will segway into a date idea within the next 2 messages. If we ended up talking about travel I might stay on that for an additional message to build rapport and make myself seem interesting
I maybe only send 4 messages total to these girls and I've got them on a date they don't flake on.
My closer for these messages is usually "you seem cool, would you be interested in grabbing a drink?" Drink is low investment and reduces flake.
I did steal that closer from Day Bang by Roosh V
I think only a couple of girls have just stopped responding just before the date plans but I may have closed out poorly and can see how I messed up. Besides my own mistakes in those cases, I stand by my method
They treat me the same as any girl I meet cold approaching when I get them on the date, so the rapport openers do not seem to be dicking me over at all. They seem to be making up for the reversed dynamics of online dating
Obviously some girls will just come straight over with almost no effort, so by no means am I claiming this is better than that. This method is certainly not more worthwhile than a low effort "come over" if you can get that to work. I'm just saying this method tends to cast a wider net than "come over" and is consistently effective, rather than high-risk high reward.
Very interesting, I think this works in all environments, so also like cold approaching, since you display some creativity which is also attractive to women. Also your text is very well-written, you can explain it pretty well.
May I ask what's your archetype? With that I mean, if we'd meet, would I see you as a muscular bodybuilder type, as a fancy player (with nice hairs, nice clothes, charisma), the extrovert, etc. (Basically what the girls think of you after seeing your tinder pictures)
Also could you state a specific example on one of these openers?
Thank you, I greatly appreciate the comment. If I post I will expand the post to have those details
I would say my archetype is lean but buff (still gaining at the gym). Hard to describe my look in terms of type. Athletic jeans (usually black) with masculine fitting t shirt and military style hair. I don't think I neatly fit into any specific archetype
My pictures are average at best, maybe one great one. I'm fucking lazy with getting better photos so I'm not reaching my potential
I would say that when girls meet me in person that I am probably more attractive to them than my photos let on (they're really average photos)
Here are 4 of the numerous examples I have:
"Wow [name], you must be pretty fresh to [area], There are a lot of good hiking spots and restaurants here. What have you seen so far?
That opener netted me 2 paragraphs of response with 7 sentences total. She had highly positive responses and long answers to everything I said after.
She made enthusiastic 2nd date with me, but life happened
Girl 2, lost her acting job because of covid, had many mutual interests
"Wow [name], there is so much I can comment on here, I don't really know where to begin. It's rough that you had to stop doing what you love. [Then I asked some question about an interest, can't remember well]
She invited me over on her 3rd message, smashed the same night
Girl 3, had some kind of weight loss side-by-side, and she became hot. A profile prompt said never been to a bar before
"Hey [name] sorry for the long delay in reaching out, I've been finishing a busy semester and can finally breathe now.
That photo is incredibly inspirational, that takes a lot of determination [sic.]
Also, how is it humanly possible to never have gone into a bar at 27?"
She invited me over for dinner for the first date as her idea (I ended up not pursuing her, she uploaded a fatter photo during logistics)
Girl 4, loved cooking and baking.
"Hey [name] cooking is such a fun activity, I love making great food. What is your favorite dish to cook and what is your favorite dessert to bake?"
She come over for the second date, and almost the first date
I went monk mode shortly after getting good at this approach so it only had limited usage, there were other matches it worked on that I chose not to pursue further after the 1st date.
Yes, I do think that to some extent this is transferable and applicable to cold approach and in-person meeting of girls. The main difference is that it would seem this approach doesn't really need to bother with building attraction on OLD as far as pre-date messaging goes
In OLD, I focus almost entirely on being interesting via rich questions and comments and demonstrating high social intelligence. I think the social intelligence makes girls realize that I'm probably going to be good at reading cues and escalating properly as someone they'd fuck (maybe I'm wrong but I'm guessing that's part of the reason it works)
The amount of times girls say I'm "genuine" and "refreshing" is pretty high. This approach makes you stand out from all the "hey's" and "wanna come over's", "beautiful's" and mediocre comments and questions that girls get all day every day
Alright, thanks I have now a clear picture of this approach.
I'd often do it like this, even though I try to be a little bit more bold and get some dark humour into it. (That's kinda my personality I guess lmao.) But it works for me.
It's amazing that you get good returns with "just mediocre" pictures, bc OLD is quite competitive. I haven't made a tinder acc yet, but I'm planning to make one and this gives me some hope. I know it's different to get good pictures, without a professional photograph.
It's amazing that you get good returns with "just mediocre" pictures,
My leading photo is a professionally taken photo of me in good clothes and a guitar that I customized to look exceptionally asthetic. It is sleek black and has a beautiful golden vine design on the fretboard. I wouldn't say the rest are "mediocre", there is just nothing remarkable about them and are objectively not above average
They aren't great, they're just acceptable enough to still make it clear that I do social stuff, what I look like, and that I have dogs and do outdoorsy stuff. I'm sure the girls still decide they find me attractive and probably ignore the actual quality of them to an extent
I definitely could get better photos, and I'm definitely going to this summer. I'll reset my account when I have enough great ones
I was maybe getting a match or two (some times 3) a week, so I know for sure my photos were not pulling what I could have had they been better. Matches came in slow but surely.
But I'm also a rather picky swiper, so those 1-3 matches were girls I 90-100% wanted to fuck and were attractive. So, not bad. The majority of them seemed to respond to my message and conversation style
My bio was also attractive, low-pressure, and fun, so that probably helped them feel at ease with me as well. I know bios don't generally matter for shit, but mine probably helped me out, too.
I'd often do it like this, even though I try to be a little bit more bold and get some dark humour into it. (That's kinda my personality I guess lmao.) But it works for me.
By all means, whatever works for you should be used.
I know it's different to get good pictures, without a professional photograph.
My photo shoot wasn't too much. I think it was $80 but only because I had her for 1.5 hours. I didn't use the vast majority of what she took because it ended up looking way too staged. Hence keeping only the guitar one.
I haven't utilized the following strategy, but I will. You take dozens of photos in the same area, just with variations in locations, pose, angles, etc. The truth is that the vast majority of what you take will be unusable for a number of reasons but 2-3 of them will be great
No problem, personally I regretted the amount of time I got my photographer for, I don't think my profile looked natural after using most of what they got me
You can always get a female friend to help. I've had several offer me and stupidly declined it
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coolsocks00 1 2y ago
There is no red pill secret sauce for tinder openers. "Hey name. I like your style/hair/smile/big ass" or something short and personalised based on a picture.
Be interesting, cool, low investment, dont fall into her frame. Use sexual subtext to gauge interest level. Close quickly or move on to the next girl. If you stop getting responses reinitiate after a few days to see if they bite.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2y ago
I might turn this into a post or might not, hence the length and level of detail. I wrote it in post format to test the waters
I have a disclaimer at the end of the post saying this is certainly not a better approach than getting a girl to come straight over (IF you can routinely pull that off), so there's that. But this tends to be far more effective for me for a broader range of girls
I have tried perfecting an approach that I think most guys on here would downvote me for, but it works for me well, has gotten me laid, and I've only ever gotten one flake using it but that's because I changed the venue day of and it probably ruined my plans. Girls almost always ask me if the plans are on still the day of (they anti-flake check me, I rarely have to).
My opener is counterintuitive to the Red Pill but I think there are valid explanations for why it works even though it's not red-pilled at face value.
My go to opener is to look at every picture and their bio thoroughly and to come up with 2-3 rich comments (each comment could be about a different photo or not, doesn't matter). By rich I just mean the quality of them is good, but not long, and (notably) different than what at least 80% of guys send
I think it works so well for me because if she has already swiped on you and matched with you, she already has an attraction and apart from that, she knows every guy that deliberately swipes on her already wants to fuck her.
Unlike cold approach or introducing yourself to a girl for the first time in person, girls on tinder who match with you on purpose have already determined they see you as fuckable.
Dating apps distort the courting process because they begin your interaction with a girl on the premise that you two would and might fuck each other if it gets that far. However, you are an online stranger. To her, you could be a catfish, a psycho, a guy that rapes and drugs his dates, etc.
Because tinder starts her off on a fuck-possible premise, displaying social competence and other desirable qualities in a non-needy manner erases barriers to her meeting you, and thus possibly fucking you.
(If your SMV is so high that she would just come straight over, or if she is just a horny slut with disregard of strangers, or both) no need to regard the above logic. But most guys aren't going to get that outcome with that approach.
So my openers are all unique for each girl but have the following qualities:
•emotionally stimulating words (example, referring to photo scenery as stunning rather than nice)
•comment seems genuine and not contrived
•touches on things girls girls are going to be intrigued in or passionate about
•fun
•demonstrates social competence/intelligence
What my rich comments are not:
•simpy, they do not boost their egos at all
•needy, opener conveys no sense that I'm eager for them to reply or connect with me
•(Over)invested, the opener does not convey that I've already decided to see them or that I'm thinking way too much about them
Additionally, I almost never directly mention them in the opener, my openers might tangentially mention them in it, but no superficial compliments about their attractiveness or over-emphasis on them.
I usually zero in on a theme in their bio or photos and will mention them in the context of that, but not solely them. Exception is if there is something very unique about the girl, thus making it genuine why you'd comment on it.
I don't know roughly how many characters I average or technicals, but my openers are usually 2-3 decent sized sentences, not a paragraph though. At least one of them is and should be a question, sometimes two.
I have been balsy before and sent about 5 sentences but felt reason to in that instance. She ended up suggested making dinner in her kitchen for the first date, it wasn't even my suggestion, she said it on her own, so take that as you will.
Girls more times often then not send me a paragraph back or more. It's not uncommon for them to double the length of what I sent them.
Their (often lengthy) first response back to me gives me a direct shortcut to figure out which stimulating topic to go straight to after one message, instead of having to throw darts down a crapshoot hoping I hit a bullseye. It's a fucking cheat code.
Rich responses also ensure that for barely much more effort on your part, you can have 7-10 messages worth of content after only 3. And the girls feel like they know you enough by the 4th message when you propose a date. It's so low effort.
My next response makes sure to select a theme that will segway into a date idea within the next 2 messages. If we ended up talking about travel I might stay on that for an additional message to build rapport and make myself seem interesting
I maybe only send 4 messages total to these girls and I've got them on a date they don't flake on.
My closer for these messages is usually "you seem cool, would you be interested in grabbing a drink?" Drink is low investment and reduces flake.
I did steal that closer from Day Bang by Roosh V
I think only a couple of girls have just stopped responding just before the date plans but I may have closed out poorly and can see how I messed up. Besides my own mistakes in those cases, I stand by my method
They treat me the same as any girl I meet cold approaching when I get them on the date, so the rapport openers do not seem to be dicking me over at all. They seem to be making up for the reversed dynamics of online dating
Obviously some girls will just come straight over with almost no effort, so by no means am I claiming this is better than that. This method is certainly not more worthwhile than a low effort "come over" if you can get that to work. I'm just saying this method tends to cast a wider net than "come over" and is consistently effective, rather than high-risk high reward.
Boosted_Arrow 2y ago
Very interesting, I think this works in all environments, so also like cold approaching, since you display some creativity which is also attractive to women. Also your text is very well-written, you can explain it pretty well.
May I ask what's your archetype? With that I mean, if we'd meet, would I see you as a muscular bodybuilder type, as a fancy player (with nice hairs, nice clothes, charisma), the extrovert, etc. (Basically what the girls think of you after seeing your tinder pictures)
Also could you state a specific example on one of these openers?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2y ago
Thank you, I greatly appreciate the comment. If I post I will expand the post to have those details
I would say my archetype is lean but buff (still gaining at the gym). Hard to describe my look in terms of type. Athletic jeans (usually black) with masculine fitting t shirt and military style hair. I don't think I neatly fit into any specific archetype
My pictures are average at best, maybe one great one. I'm fucking lazy with getting better photos so I'm not reaching my potential
I would say that when girls meet me in person that I am probably more attractive to them than my photos let on (they're really average photos)
Here are 4 of the numerous examples I have:
"Wow [name], you must be pretty fresh to [area], There are a lot of good hiking spots and restaurants here. What have you seen so far?
That opener netted me 2 paragraphs of response with 7 sentences total. She had highly positive responses and long answers to everything I said after.
She made enthusiastic 2nd date with me, but life happened
Girl 2, lost her acting job because of covid, had many mutual interests
"Wow [name], there is so much I can comment on here, I don't really know where to begin. It's rough that you had to stop doing what you love. [Then I asked some question about an interest, can't remember well]
She invited me over on her 3rd message, smashed the same night
Girl 3, had some kind of weight loss side-by-side, and she became hot. A profile prompt said never been to a bar before
"Hey [name] sorry for the long delay in reaching out, I've been finishing a busy semester and can finally breathe now.
That photo is incredibly inspirational, that takes a lot of determination [sic.]
Also, how is it humanly possible to never have gone into a bar at 27?"
She invited me over for dinner for the first date as her idea (I ended up not pursuing her, she uploaded a fatter photo during logistics)
Girl 4, loved cooking and baking.
"Hey [name] cooking is such a fun activity, I love making great food. What is your favorite dish to cook and what is your favorite dessert to bake?"
She come over for the second date, and almost the first date
I went monk mode shortly after getting good at this approach so it only had limited usage, there were other matches it worked on that I chose not to pursue further after the 1st date.
Yes, I do think that to some extent this is transferable and applicable to cold approach and in-person meeting of girls. The main difference is that it would seem this approach doesn't really need to bother with building attraction on OLD as far as pre-date messaging goes
In OLD, I focus almost entirely on being interesting via rich questions and comments and demonstrating high social intelligence. I think the social intelligence makes girls realize that I'm probably going to be good at reading cues and escalating properly as someone they'd fuck (maybe I'm wrong but I'm guessing that's part of the reason it works)
The amount of times girls say I'm "genuine" and "refreshing" is pretty high. This approach makes you stand out from all the "hey's" and "wanna come over's", "beautiful's" and mediocre comments and questions that girls get all day every day
Boosted_Arrow 2y ago
Alright, thanks I have now a clear picture of this approach.
I'd often do it like this, even though I try to be a little bit more bold and get some dark humour into it. (That's kinda my personality I guess lmao.) But it works for me.
It's amazing that you get good returns with "just mediocre" pictures, bc OLD is quite competitive. I haven't made a tinder acc yet, but I'm planning to make one and this gives me some hope. I know it's different to get good pictures, without a professional photograph.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2y ago
My leading photo is a professionally taken photo of me in good clothes and a guitar that I customized to look exceptionally asthetic. It is sleek black and has a beautiful golden vine design on the fretboard. I wouldn't say the rest are "mediocre", there is just nothing remarkable about them and are objectively not above average
They aren't great, they're just acceptable enough to still make it clear that I do social stuff, what I look like, and that I have dogs and do outdoorsy stuff. I'm sure the girls still decide they find me attractive and probably ignore the actual quality of them to an extent
I definitely could get better photos, and I'm definitely going to this summer. I'll reset my account when I have enough great ones
I was maybe getting a match or two (some times 3) a week, so I know for sure my photos were not pulling what I could have had they been better. Matches came in slow but surely.
But I'm also a rather picky swiper, so those 1-3 matches were girls I 90-100% wanted to fuck and were attractive. So, not bad. The majority of them seemed to respond to my message and conversation style
My bio was also attractive, low-pressure, and fun, so that probably helped them feel at ease with me as well. I know bios don't generally matter for shit, but mine probably helped me out, too.
By all means, whatever works for you should be used.
My photo shoot wasn't too much. I think it was $80 but only because I had her for 1.5 hours. I didn't use the vast majority of what she took because it ended up looking way too staged. Hence keeping only the guitar one.
I haven't utilized the following strategy, but I will. You take dozens of photos in the same area, just with variations in locations, pose, angles, etc. The truth is that the vast majority of what you take will be unusable for a number of reasons but 2-3 of them will be great
It should, read these for additional perspectives
https://killyourinnerloser.com/inspiration/
https://www.forums.red/p/TheRedPill/4370/how_to_really_succeed_at_tinder_not_just_another_tinder_guid
Boosted_Arrow 2y ago
Thanks for the extra ressources. I'll read into it, I really want to get into tinder tbh.
I think I'll also get a professional photographer, bc the pictures my friends take of me are unfortunately mostly trash.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2y ago
No problem, personally I regretted the amount of time I got my photographer for, I don't think my profile looked natural after using most of what they got me
You can always get a female friend to help. I've had several offer me and stupidly declined it
Can always also use a tripod or something
onaj_lik_s_mackama 2y ago
Hey, I'd say you're beautiful but beauty comes from within and I haven't been there yet.