This is a serious question. I'm asking it here because I want a diversity of opinions on the issue, I don't want any censored opinions, and I don't want the truth to be obscured or avoided because it could make me uncomfortable.
My situation: I'm a 24 y.o. straight woman. I'd like to be in a monogamous LTR and, ideally, to get married to a man and to have a close and emotionally intimate relationship. While I want to have my own source of income (especially if I'm not married - if I were married I'd be open to not working if my partner and I desired that), a career isn't the only priority in my life and I don't plan on pursuing one at the expense of connecting with my partner, taking care of myself/my health, prioritizing friends and family, and exploring interests unrelated to my job. I'm on the fence about having kids, and the conditions under which I'd do so are unusual. While I'm open to having kids through adoption or through becoming a stepmother, I do not want to become pregnant and bear any children myself. Alternatively, I may end up satisfied living a childfree lifestyle with (hopefully) a long-term partner/husband who is also childfree.
My question: Is this realistic? In your opinions, is it realistic to expect a man to still be invested in me and interested in me as a partner when I'm in my late 30s, 40s, 50s, and beyond when I have not borne any offspring that shares our DNA? Or is the harsh truth that he, having lived longer and attained more resources, would fantasize about leaving me for a younger woman and perhaps even go ahead and do so because he can? Basically, do I have significant value to a long-term male partner beyond my attractiveness/youth and my childbearing ability (the latter of which I intend not to use)? Would my relationship with him have a shelf life that ends when I'm no longer attractive? Would I be without value to him once I'm old if I haven't borne our genetic offspring?
CasualC 2y ago
Some of this may seem harsh please know I do not intend it to be. I have a brand of bluntness that often has me labeled the dickhead.
In the Blue Pill men I think, you’ll find that most have been sold this story of “find the one, have babies, provide. And you will be rewarded” so personally I think, that at your age you may find plenty of guys to LTR with who will tell you they don’t want kids. However, I think as they age and as your relationship matures they will change their position on that. You may as well. It is in our nature as humans to want to procreate. There’s even a good chance they will tell you they don’t want kids despite knowing they do. Because telling women what they want to hear is what the blue pill is all about. So they will just say they don’t and hope your love for them will change your mind later.
I think that after a change of thinking, a blue pilled man would more than likely also stay in this LTR with you and not want to bring up the subject on how they grew to feel about fathering children because they will be so scared of losing “their one and only soulmate” that they won’t want to rock the boat. Especially if you were already married. They will then grow to resent you, this will result in a subconscious change of behavior. Your hind brain will likely start to take note of this, eventually your conscious mind will follow. I’d be willing to bet one of you would cheat/monkey branch their way out of this relationship shortly thereafter.
However, there are some viable LTR/marriage options for you I think.
Sterile Men. While certainly uncommon they exist. It would be hard to find as I would expect them to be unlikely to freely give out this information. However, if you’re vocal and forthright about your ideas from the jump I’d imagine he’d be eager to sell you on his inability to even reproduce during a private conversation.
Single Dad’s. As one myself, who has been and still is a part of “don’t kill yourself” type of single dad groups across the Internet. (It’s all too common, if I can be the reason it doesn’t happen I will, whatever the cost... I digress) Many single dads have sworn off the child wagon for one reason or another. Many get vasectomies as a result. These men would likely be quite a bit older than you by roughly 10 years give or take. This requires you to be a step parent. Good luck finding your ideal co parenting situation they are very few and far between. Please, if you aren’t going to be able to handle a little baby momma drama leave these guys alone. They have enough on their plate.
Rich Old Dudes. They are too old to have kids. Probably also have had a vasectomy after freezing some batches somewhere. Whether or not you can find an LTR like this would depend entirely on two things. 1.) your willingness to have hot- damn near heart attack inducing- monkey sex with some wrinkly old fuck on his yacht. 2.) how attractive you are.
The Red Pill gets a bad rap. We aren’t the women hating/resenting, “raise the patriarchy” womanizers we get painted as. We just understand that the world has sold men a romanticized ideology that doesn’t exist. It also seems to me you have fantasized about these same ideas. You essentially came here to ask us if we think you will still get your Disney Princess Story regardless of your unwillingness to bear children.
Despite this, your other option IS the red pilled man to do this you would have to invest time and your sexual intimacy with no commitment from him while you prove yourself a viable option for an LTR. However, yet again he will be your senior, in at least his 30’s and while you will find red pilled men in this age bracket willing to commit to a monogamous LTR, I wouldn’t expect you would be getting a ring on your finger without your willingness to go several years without it. I’m willing to bet there’s a decent amount of red pilled men who never want to entertain the idea of having children.
hopingforapartner 2y ago
Lol compared to some of the other responses to this post, yours is not harsh.
If I did it would be through surrogacy. I had sterilization surgery because I don't want to be pregnant. I think my feelings about pregnancy are strong enough that it's safe to say I'll never change my mind, even if I do end up wanting kids via marrying a single dad, adopting, or using a surrogate.
I'd like to be forthright about my ideas from the jump, but I'm wary that men will just pretend they feel the same way in order to use me for sex, all the while knowing they plan to discard me once they find their ideal woman. Do you happen to have any strategies on how to spot possible liars in this sense so I can be up front about my preferences without falling prey to being used?
I'd consider this. A little baby mama drama would probably be ok, but I wouldn't want to become the target of anyone's ill will. I wouldn't want to always feel like an outsider and not really part of the family - that would be one of my main concerns. I'm not sure where a childfree 24 y.o. would meet single parents, though; it seems there are more resources on how to connect single parents to other single parents.
Also, I'd like to be married. Do you think my chances of that are reasonably likely with single dads or men significantly older than me who never had and don't want kids?
Hmm, I thought men could technically father children into their 80s. I'd be worried that, even if I were involved with someone decades older than I, he would end up wanting kids... have some sort of midlife crisis or something, who knows.
Yeah, I wouldn't spend several years in an exclusive relationship with someone just hoping but never knowing if they'd actually marry me. If they decide not to, that's several years of my life wasted. It doesn't seem logical for me to do this. However, maybe I'd get to know them as friends and/or go on a few dates, becoming exclusive if they decide they really want me.
substructure 2y ago
Fulfil the biological imperative or you've wasted your life, and you've wasted your mans time. Its pretty fucking simple.
Now fuck off out of here and stop wasting ours.
carnold03 2y ago
If a woman has dehumanized herself, what reason would anyone have to regard her as human at all?
celestial 2y ago
the answers to your questions depend on whether or not he is bluepilled.
obviously we work to redpill all men, so we're working against you in that regard.
I'd definitely advise you to freeze your eggs while they are relatively undamaged, in case you have a change of heart in the future, which I would say is fairly likely.
I think to find the type of man you want, you have to judge whether he's bluepilled; meaning looking at his life ethos. you might be looking for a hippie type guy, they are easy to spot.
hopingforapartner 2y ago
Yeah, depending on the cost and all I've contemplated doing that just in case an unexpected opportunity arises. As for changing my mind, I've been sterilized because I'm 10,000% sure I never want to be pregnant. Technically though, through egg retrieval and surrogacy, a woman can still pass on her genes without getting pregnant. I haven't made my mind up about whether I'm open to that route or not.
Normally I'd say I don't care if a guy is redpill or bluepill - and as a disclaimer I'm not super well versed on the different subcategories of the manosphere - but I probably wouldn't look for a specifically redpill man, or at least the type to practice TRP strategies, because I'd like a male partner who doesn't resent women and who doesn't have a high N-count. I'm not trying to misrepresent or denigrate redpill followers, but I do come away with the impression that they resent women and that they're very promiscuous.
I posted my initial question here because, like I said, I want a diversity of opinions and I don't want to filter out ideas/opinions just because they're unsavory or unpleasant to entertain.
celestial 2y ago
Why wouldn't you want a man with a high n-count? Do you take as a sign that he just simply isn't serious? Of course, most men who manage to be promiscuous don't hate women -- for the exact reason that women give them what they want. So what you're looking for is a guy who's had few partners and also doesn't see women as unfair to men. There's plenty of those. I would say typically they are family-minded. But you can probably find one if you are patient and know where to look.
hopingforapartner 2y ago
Yeah, I would suspect that he only likes women for sex. If someone has had a history of monogamous LTRs I'd associate that with a lower n-count, assuming they weren't unfaithful. So if he hasn't been with that many women and has been in LTRs I'd assume he wants to connect with a woman more than sexually. There are also STDs. Unfortunately there's no HPV test for men - only women can be tested for it. I'd also be concened a man with a promiscuous past would have a hard time being monogamous and might cheat without my knowing, exposing me to STDs.
I guess what I mean is I wonder if they only view women as sex objects, nothing more. Women may give them what they want and that might make them less likely to be jaded, but that still doesn't mean they'll appreciate women for qualities other than looks/sex. Also, to me it's a red flag if someone - of any gender, in any context - resents another for not "giving them what they want." Entitlement is a huge red flag to me.
celestial 2y ago
Okay, so what you're looking for is a man who's had mostly LTRs, with a low n-count and who has effectively a bluepill mindset who either doesn't want his own children or is already a dad?
I'd say that those men are out there. Many men with their own children would appreciate a second chance with a women who doesn't want children and who's body hasn't been through pregnancy. As for all women, you have your best chance at getting what you want out of men by having an athletic body. That, along with hanging out where to find such men, gives you your best chance.
hopingforapartner 2y ago
Hmm, it seems there are more resources on connecting single parents with other single parents. Are there any particular places where I might encounter single men who have already had their kids?
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hopingforapartner 2y ago
For me having Lambos (especially in the plural lol) isn't a selling point. A 6 pack would be nice I suppose but looks and money aren't everything to me.
Hmm. You think men who don't want kids tend to desire eternal bachelorhood punctuated with flings and FWB? It's probably true that most people, men and women, in LTRs are looking to have kids just because most people are looking to have kids. But it doesn't logically follow from that that most childfree people/childfree men don't want LTRs/marriage.
What do you mean by this?
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celestial 2y ago
"You think men who don't want kids tend to desire eternal bachelorhood punctuated with flings and FWB?"
I certainly think that; granted there a few commitment-minded men who don't want children
hopingforapartner 2y ago
If you don't mind my asking, do you personally aspire to have kids? If not, are you by extension not planning to ever be in an LTR? I've never been totally clear on this: do redpill men like the ones on this forum just want flings for the rest of their lives - no marriage or LTR? Do all the ones who want LTRs want kids?
celestial 2y ago
I have a kid. My child's mother dumped me, I did everything I could to stop her but she monkey-branched. I also don't think parenting is for me, so I won't be having any more. I'm also not a good parent; I'm good at providing physical things, so I was great with my kid up until they were about 3, but now everyone around me just undermines my authority which I hate, so I gave up. He's free to develop a deeper relationship with me when he's older, but my intentions from here on out are to not have more kids and to just have brief, 3-year maximum relationships. It's actually completely optional for me because I already understand what I want from women down to the letter and it's not that important - jut sexual development and learning more about how I relate to others. I intend on going full ascetic once I can no longer date young women, which is fine because my sex drive is pretty low anyway and I lost my virginity at 22 so going without sex is no big deal to me. I'm happy to pursue intellectual goals. I would alter this plan if I fell madly in love with a woman who likes me back, if I felt deeply infatuated by her. But if it's just "attraction" then that's not enough to make me sacrifice my freedom, and I've already had that anyway. I can sustain myself on past memories. I don't think I can speak for other men. I've no idea what percentage of men are redpill, marriage-minded, bluepill, player/f-boy or any intersections between those. It seems to me a lot of guys over on the redpill subreddits are either "totally avoid women" or "just play women for sex". I haven't really come across any who want to sort out solutions to modern problems, which is what it would take to push a lot of men back into the commitment game. I'd say you can find men who want LTRs but no kids, if you look in places where they congregate. Would you be against marrying a man who already has a child? There's numerous communities springing up who endorse flexibility in relationships, perhaps those might have something to offer you?
hopingforapartner 2y ago
Lol are there certain places they tend to congregate? I suppose I could go out and meet people at times/days when parents would likely be taking care of their kids.
No, not inherently. It would depend, though; I wouldn't want to get in the middle of drama between the father and mother, I wouldn't want the mother to resent me, etc. It would also depend on the reason the couple split up. While divorce doesn't mean someone would make a bad partner, it would make me want to know why things went south.
celestial 2y ago
I mean primarily online. You could try childfree facebook and reddit groups.