A relevant comment in this thread was deleted. You can read it below.

As a woman who is considered hot by many guys, I'll give you some advice. DO NOT take steroids. I find muscular guys attractive but if you're at a point where you need help from drugs to make any more gains, you're good where you are and your muscles are not the problem. Listen, I'm scrolling through TRP and I'm not going to pretend to know the rules, I'll get up on that later, but I will say that women like guys who make them feel a certain way and with hot ones you have to work a little harder, even if you yourself are hot. [Continued...]

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You are looking at the stars

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Its probably your personality and communication style. Women are VERY in tune with your mental state. Its biology, you can't really fool them. You probably need to go to therapy or do some serious changing internally. I know a handful of guys who look good but are absolutely insane and socially incompetent. A skinny guy with narrow shoulders who knows how to talk to girls, holds frame, and is mentally healthy is going to have a hotter girlfriend than a dude that looks like Brad Pitt but is a spaz and can't communicate.

RSD Tyler says that many hot girls end up with betas because it's simple a safe choice, because they are always "there". Sexual market is mayhem for the hot girls, many socialpaths, criminals and assholes. Unfortunately, they won't be able to keep them as they can't make her wet properly.

Depends on where you are located...much of it has to do with social status.

The narrow shoulder weak looking dude or chubby neckbeard often has some status in their school or town or group.

Of course, then you have to throw in places like the American South were the women seek out their father's for BFs. So if there father was a chubby, fart joke cracking yokel who hated "yankees" and "fureigners" then to these chicks, hot or not, the top of the alpha male mate chain is a chubby, barely literate, yokel who drives a pickup and thinks a night out is around a bonfire swilling PBR and seeing who can fart the loudest.

And never underestimate the ability of a women's hamster to conflate any flabby loser into Superman with Ryan Goslen looks. Many women just check out to settle for a safe choice then get their hamster running to spin that he isn't as fat as he looks, she really does like having that flab rolling around on her and he is just "pretending" to be stupid. Of course, these women drive the romantic novel and rom-com movie markets with their obsession with reading about the chads in those stories to help them to forget what they have to fuck once a month.

a) They're funny and interesting

b) Maybe they have a good job with a good income (sounds like you're describing the typical computer programer)

c) They may be artsy. There are plenty of hipster types who attract fellow hipster girls

d) Not all girls are looking for a muscular macho alpha. They like being with safe nice guys.

I'm sort of sceptical this is a real post. It sounds like you're basing the entirety of women being attracted to you on your muscle mass. There's way more to attraction than that. Yes RP says to lift, but you do that in concert with other value improvements. You sound like a whiny bitch complaining that less muscular men are getting hotter girls.

Also, when girls tell you to not get bigger. Take the fucking hint.

You say:

girls that do get with me tell me not to get buffer

Then you say:

But I'm seriously considering steroids if it will allow me to go out at the bar and be approached by hot girls.

Are you stupid? Average girls are telling you you're getting too buff (unattractive) and you're thinking is to get even buffer to attract better looking women?

Consider this article that explains girls like a certain level of fitness/muscle mass, but that attraction significantly drops when you get to 'body builder' type physiques.

It sounds to me like you're better off forgetting the steroids and putting time into becoming more interesting as a person.

First off, face matters a lot. A skinny guy (not skeletal and freakishly skinny, just not buff) with a cute face and hair that could land him in a boy-band or underwear ad will far outperform a plain or ugly-faced guy with broad shoulders and tinder-abs. And a good-faced guy looks good in anything, so he doesn't have to dress sharp.

Second, one of the arch-types many women like is the brooding, silent, too cool for school type. I promise that skinny, poorly dressed guy you loathe so much isn't a computer engineering major with a cubicle job at a local IT company who watches anime in his spare time and jerks off to milf porn. He's not a skinny loser socially awkward nerd, he's just a brooding, artsy, emo, too cool for this club type of skinny guy, and some girls are into that.

Third, outside of your view, there's no reason to assume guys like that have zero game, zero social skills, suck at life, or suck in bed. They definitely gamed (and continue to game) their girl. They did not walk up, shake hands, introduce themselves, and proceed to mutter some boring respectful conversation with these hot girls that eventually led to dates and sex.

Fourth, many women will be with a "right now" guy, just for now, until they find a more stereotypical hot guy. Sometimes, they'll play with one of the random orbiters in their friend circle in between real guys. We live in the sex-positive age, so the idea that women would go for any length of time without having sex is preposterous to the socially liberated circles. Most sex-positive, liberated women have friends or fuck buddies they tap between relationships.

The answer you're looking for is proximity. You can be the most attractive guy in the world, but if you live in a desert you can only date camels.

You can be a plain nobody, but if you work with the hottest women in the world and have OK game, you'll eventually have proximity, status, and time.

Stick a man and a woman in the same room long enough, they will eventually fuck.

You obviously lack personality. You sound like a whiney bitch.

You say this...

Their narrow shoulders disgust me

...and then you say this...

and I can't understand how they can be males, and wake up in the morning being unmuscular like that.

...but then you say this...

No hate.

Actually, there's nothing but hate in your post. You are 100 percent being a hater.

My point in illustrating this is that it betrays a very severe insecurity in you. If you're in awesome shape, then that's awesome, but you seem to think that's the only thing that matters, and it's not.

Yes, it may be stupid, but if there's a another way, please do share.

Your frame is in terrible shape. That's where I would suggest you start.

You don't have to be muscular to be powerful. A skinny drug dealer with a gun collection is more "dangerous" than a guy whose great shape is just a showcase of his scheduled meals and life

I'm think is potentially a refletion of dualistic strategy by women, and placing men into the "beta", or "alpha bucket".

I get it, some of these skinny quiet men with hot girls probably have good game/status,etc. But, I'm going to have to agree with OP, more often than not THEY DON'T There is no seemingly rhyme or reason from an ATTRACTION standpoint why they are with them.

which brings me back to my first point. I would almost argue that in some strange ways, you are given less of a change if you are NOT the stereotypical fallback BETA, but also not the stereotypical Alpha.

You don't get the women fawning after you and wanting your cock becuase you aren't the CHAD, and as soon as she gets burned by CHAD, you also aren't the supplicating skinny beta that would do anything for her that she runs to for a temporary relationship to "try a true nice guy out" (which is a GOOD thing).

I know it sucks, at LEAST the suppplicating beta is getting some form of hot pussy and you are not.

I know plenty of men this camp, decent career, lift, decent personality/game/funny etc, but not QUITE a CHAD, nor a supplicating beta. they are the amomolies, and are frustrated. they can't understand why all these men who lift less, have less personality, more supplicating/etc are getting these hot women occasionally and in some cases getting married, while they are not.

they don't see the whole picture here.

Get steroids to get approached?

You should consider that. But maybe you should start changing your life mission than getting stupid girls. They wont fill the void in you. Ever

Your frustration is coming through at jet engine decibel levels and I understand it completely. But, all due respect, I think that is exactly what is fucking with your mind and tormenting you. You believe you've done the right things (which it appears you have) and therefore you "deserve" the hotties (which by logic you do). Maybe it's a shift of focus to "the hotties DESERVE you" as in TRP teachings about YOU being the prize.
FINAL IMPORTANT POINT - DO NOT JUICE. You are already pissed off and frustrated - if you juice, it will only amp those unpleasant feelings/thoughts/physical sensations exponentially. My thoughts - if they help, great. If I am off base - disregard. Good Luck.

OP I would not suggest steroids but the choice of taking the risk is yours. Lifting is a major theme in TRP but it is not a silver bullet. Lifting is not just body building but character building by cultivating the self discipline it takes to succeed. Many people who come to TRP are out of shape and feel like shit and it bleeds into their mental state. Yes you will pull a few superficial hot but low character value women with the muscles but after the novelty wears off she's onto the next shiny thing she sees. I have a friend who is ripped as fuck, rich, former Olympian with 2 medals but no game and has the same frustrations you described. I know lots of not rich plain guys or even dad bod middle aged guys that slay the pussy because they have charisma and character. They are fun to be around. Girls often just call it confidence. If you want to be more successful in dating you need to look at your frame and game instead of juicing. These plain guys probably know who they are and what they are about, have a mission in life and are working on it with a good attitude and set boundaries they enforce in their relationships.

with awfully plain guys

Are they paying? Are they actually having sex? Are they really plain, or is this just your wrong judgment? What else is great about them?

NOT buff -> probably slim face.

NO fashion sense -> are you sure? women judge these things differently.

They look boring and bored -> or are they IDGAF?

those guys actually read the sidebar

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dont do roids bro theres a fine line between muscular (what girls find attractive) and disgusting bodybuilder gym freak. theres a reason theyre telling you to stop gaining muscle. and btw u didnt reach your natural limit. if you want to bulk again i advise to eat more, try to lift heavier every week, eat compex carbs 1/2 hour before workout which really does make you lift more. Also keep track of your macros. And as soon as youre done with the bulk you should cut down to atleast 10% bf and then maintain that weight

You will never be approached by girls at the bar. They don't do overt communication. That's your job. They will simply smile, or stare a bit longer than usual, or "bump" into you. It's on you from there. Also how do you not know by now that it's their status that allows them to pull hot girls. Whether it be social or wealth, doesn't matter how they got them. Have you ever thought to have a conversation with a guy like them? Maybe read GLO's most recent post on how basic gets basic.

They are naturals or betas. Most likely naturals since hot girls can typically have whatever guy they want. Stop thinking being big is the only thing that matters. It's nothing more than a foot in the door, if your frame sucks dick, that's all you'll be doing.

There are many reasons why and if you have had enough experience you could pick out the Red Pill principles that are being applied to that relationship.

The key thing to remember is that Red Pill isn't a playbook, meaning X+Y=Z ALTHOUGH it will give you the keys to predict behavior.

Some women seek out betas. Despite what we know and learn some women are at a point in their lives where a beta is easier to control. Maybe they've had an Alpha and didn't like what happened. Maybe the Alpha shunned the relationship goal they wanted. A beta suited them. Consider it hypogamy....yet still securing the best resources for their goal, as misplaced as it may be.

In the end though a women will seek an alpha. Betas don't last nor can they go the distance.

In the end the only thing you can do is keep improving. your frame is the most essential part of this. No matter what if you have unassailable frame all the bullshit a woman has created to convince herself that she doesn't need a strong man will fall away. She will see it. Some take longer then others, some require tragedy in their lives. But in the end they will come to see it once they are with a true Alpha male.

They have more status than you. Hater.