Jobs are very "professional" but we all know that behind a manager/ HR representant/ CEO/ etc, there's a human being which (to a certain extent) will be influenced by his human side when doing his job/ taking a job related decision.
Given the above, I wanted TRPs thoughts on asking a raise. The thing is that I don't wanna fail.
Context: been 4 months at a company; I worked my way around the social groups here and found out that I'm 16% underpaid compared to the lowest paid employee here. On the other side of the spectrum, a guy that's been here for ~ 3 years is paid double what I'm earning. -> hence, I can ask for a raise.
Initial discussions (1 month ago) resulted in HR telling me that I must prove that I'm working at the same level with the rest, have the same responsibility as the rest and do just as well as them and in this case they will "adjust me to the next payment bracket".
It's been 1 month and I got some shit done around here and I'm feeling confident I'll get even more done (am in line with the others).
I wanna take another shot at asking for a 15% raise. The thing is that asking for a raise is like asking your mom for money when you're young: do it wrongly and be a brat and you won't get a dime; do it correctly and you may even get more than you expected!
Some very important info: I can only talk to HR on the phone (the HR department is in a town 600 km away) and if I convince them that I'm good, they'll talk to the local manager to see what opinion he has about me and if he approves of the raise. I'd say I'm neutral with the guy: we did a few lunches together, had some work-related and non-work-related chat and he didn't seem neither delighted nor disgusted by me. He's pretty busy so I can't really call him for a cup of Joe daily.
So what are your thoughts on this TRP?
Edit:
more info on the matter:
-I'm ~15% paid less than the smallest salary here;
-I'm ~30% paid less than most people here;
-I'm ~100% paid less than the highest paid people here;
-I wasn't aware of this info when I got hired. It is a move upwards but I still feel like the biggest loser here.
-When I discussed with HR 1 month ago, they suggested that I spend at least 2 more weeks to get a feel of things before resuming this discussion.
Edit2:
Thank you to everyone who took their time to answer here and talk to me; I tried to reply to each and every one of your comments since you replied to my post. The vast majority decided on one of two things:
1). state clearly that this is not fair and shit has to change now (and branch swing if it doesn't soon enough);
2). start searching for a better offer and then confront them with it to leverage a raise or straight up branch swing to a better place.
Given these two, I'm starting to think about the swing. With this opportunity I want to ask: what do you guys think about America? Is it worth it to come there for a job? Generally speaking are salaries good (I'm not a heavy spender; presuming that I just eat and go out just 2-3 times a week in which I buy 2-3 beers, how much of my salary would I be left with? What's the average salary all around and let's work with that?) , are there enough jobs to go around?
If this is too OT, I will make a new post about the matter. Thanks once again.

[deleted] 10y ago
It's difficult to say anything without knowing your industry, position and replacebility.
In general, I believe the best way to increase your salary is simply switching firms. Once your inside its quite hard to get any real raise (20-40%).
R3v4mp3d 10y ago
I just switched firms (that's why I've been hired for just 4 months). Replaceability is low since there used to be 30-35 employees and now there are only 15 and HR is relatively desperate to get new people as to not lose the branch. 2 more people are coming in next month and the company is offering bonuses (1 extra salary/ refferal that gets hired) for bringing new people in.
15% is a (relatively) big jump but everyone was hired with the salary that I'm aiming to get. So actually this 15% isn't a raise, it's to put me in line with what initial salary they had 1 year ago.
Initial salary lowered since there are fewer employees -> less productivity and implicitly less profit and since someone somewhere is getting their cut.
All that amounts to me not asking for much but what should be rightfully mine; what I need is the "how" part.
[deleted] 10y ago
Well in that case focus on excellent performance and above all get your superior on your side. Explain to him that you love your job and you want to continue working there, but it's hard to do so when the HR department ripped you off when you negotiated with them in good faith. Then go back to the HR department with his support. If that's doesn't do it, start applying for other positions and simply demand the raise or you're leaving.
R3v4mp3d 10y ago
Ok, so there's no "little secret" that I can apply here.
It's hard to work on "excellent performance" since the company just got a new client and that means it will take time to get to know the client; learn his needs; mold on his way of working with people; etc. It's hard to be efficient when what we're doing at this stage almost resembles research.
The only thing I have to offer is more of my time and effort/ attention.
VasiliyZaitzev 10y ago
There are two strategies:
The best one has been pointed out--go out in the marketplace and get another job. When they ask you how much you were making, at BetaBux Enterprises either (a) deflect by telling them you are negotiating based on the position you are applying for, not the one you have now, or (b) lie like a motherfucker. Your choice.
Eventually, you're going to have to move on to get more. Employers always expect you to be their bitch and take a "hometown discount". The complain about how employees aren't loyal anymore, while ignoring the fact that the days of walking into GE or IBM at 21 and walking out at 65 with a nice pension and a gold watch are Way Long Gone. Now they give you "merit increases" which are really COLAs but often are less than the rate of inflation. BFD.
You never have more power than during the negotiation process when they want to hire you. That's when you make your case for $. As a fall back, you can always structure an increase after 6 months as a proposal, and sometimes they will go for that (I had it happen once, so don't get your hopes up).
You should also study up on negotiations. Start googling, and good luck.
R3v4mp3d 10y ago
Thank you for your reply!
I'll get reading right away as to be prepared for the moment I'll have the chat.
I already emailed HR regarding the 1 month that passed and that we must have another discussion; am awaiting their reply to set up a date.
If you have any pro tips to drop, feel free.
VasiliyZaitzev 10y ago
Well, really I think it's going to be "find another gig" combined with "improve your negotiation skills".
Management is going to wonder "Who is this serf who thinks he should be paid more than we TELL him?" Nobody gets a 15% raise. Even if you went out into the mkt and got an offer to leverage your current position, you can only do that once, and I never recommend it. If they wanted you so much, why the fuck did they wait until you were leaving to show you?
I'd file under "lessons learned" and move on when I got a better offer that I actually liked.
And yeah, you don't want to be a job-hopper, but the reality is that today, people's loyalties are to their paychecks, which is EXACTLY how it should be in the current environment. If you're in your 20s, some job-hopping isn't going to hurt you.
R3v4mp3d 10y ago
Honestly I'm searching for that "die here" company where I can stay for the next 10-20-30 years or until I decide to open up my own business.
It's hard to find that outside a big corporate job. My experience with big corporate jobs is that they actually pay you the least -> not the "die here" I'm searching for.
That's why I want my CV to be as clean as it can: in case I find the golden goose, I can shove my hard up its ass and hold tight!
[deleted] 10y ago
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R3v4mp3d 10y ago
I didn't know I was this low compared to the others until I came here. Getting here and seeing that you're the lowest. the dumb working mule; that doesn't really stimulate me to give me all and be happy that I'm shat on.
I won't branch swing for another year but I'm at least ~ 30% lower than most people here; and compared to the 3 year senios who have 100% extra salary (yes, double) I feel like a fucking toilet scrubber. This alone is incentive enough for me to push a raise. I want to mention that the difference in job difficulty between me and the 3 year senior is that he has the backgroubd needed to do everything faster; this I can get down within the year.
I can't really tell you the post since I wanna avoid doxxing.
Proactive tips please? :( (also check my other comments on this post for more insight on the situation)
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
R3v4mp3d 10y ago
Will try this over the next two months; will bail after those 2 months if shit's the same. Thank you!
[deleted] 10y ago
Can people stop telling op his mistake was to accept the position at current rate. He knows that now. Give him advice to get the raise.
R3v4mp3d 10y ago
Thank you.
Sandkasten 10y ago
Why do you think you deserve a raise? Just because other people earn more than you? I think the HR department was clear, and not even a month later you want to ask again?
Your first mistake was to accept the pay before you started to work there. Maybe it seemed like a good offer at that time. You second mistake was to talk about a raise only four months into your new job. I can assure you the HR department was not amused. And now you are swinging again, strike three ahead.
R3v4mp3d 10y ago
They told me to wait 2 weeks before coming in with a new request so that I can get a "feel" of where I am. I am not amused either to be paid 15% less than the lowest salary here and watch as I do little to no breaks while others who have 2x my salary take 4-5 breaks a day and are telling stories about how they do almost nothing all day while I'm busting my ass.
I'm pressing because I know I have a case behind my words.
Edit: for clarifications: I'm earning 15% less than the lowest one; most of the people here started with that 15% already there, and are at ~ 30% more than what I get. That's more than just "unfair".
SilentForTooLong 10y ago
Are you a very inefficient worker?
R3v4mp3d 10y ago
Nope. Literally we get (more or less) to do the same thing each of us. My CV looks spotless and I'm ALWAYS serious in the office (I never crack jokes, I rarely smile at jokes) so the higher ups give me the more mental tasks: coordinate this and that; talk to team X and get the knowledge from them and implement what was good for them in our team and teach it to everyone.
The other colleagues get menial tasks; they go for "the sandwich break" which lasts from 9:30 - 10:00; they go for lunch outside the building (another 1:30) while I go in the canteen (30 minutes); they have the 3:30 or 4:00 pm "it's almost leaving time" break; and maybe 1-2 more breaks in between all these. I take a 30 minute break at 4-5 pm to eat dinner (my rule of thumb) and then an extra 10 minute break with 1 of them as to not be that awkward for avoiding them.
In total I sum up around 2H of breaks (I have to shit/ piss/ get some tea); they sum up around 3-4H of breaks.
SilentForTooLong 10y ago
You might think you are selling yourself as a hardworker, but you come across as a total chump, or like the office bitch. Basically, you get paid less for the same job, but everyone else knows they can take 4-5 breaks, while you, instead of taking any breaks, just kowtow to any demand thrown at you?...
Sounds like the whole office knows you are their bitch, when the job really doesn't require that much effort. And you are paid accordingly.
If you want to spin this all as "I'm a go-getter" then either 1. what everyone else said should work = just go to the bosses you constantly suck up to and tell them you need their support to get a raise. or 2. leave the job ASAP, since you should have the skills and work ethic to easily jump ship. You're everyone's bitch anyway, so why would you want to stay?
R3v4mp3d 10y ago
I have to stay for AT LEAST 6 months and optimally 1-2 years. I would really like a neat CV. This being month 4, if I don't get at least in line with the lowest then I'll start searching to jump ship after the next 2.
I'm well aware of that perspective and that's why I wanna point it out and get paid accordingly.
Keep in mind, this is in Europe, in an emerging 3rd world country -> everyone is trying to rip you off as hard as they can and put in their pockets.
pobo90 10y ago
Hmm.. Be careful with getting another job offer and using it as leverage. From personal experience, they may not take too kindly of an employee looking for another job, no matter how much they value you. I was canned because they had match another offer that I received PRIOR to being hired, only to be contacted by another employer for a job reference.
Just be careful.
CryptoManbeard 10y ago
Best way to get a raise is to have options. Go apply and interview elsewhere, then you can leverage offers against eachother and your current position. And if they don't buck up, you just pick the other position.
R3v4mp3d 10y ago
I want to have a good track record: I stayed 2 years at my previous company before deciding to branch swing here. I want to stay at least 1 year here so that my CV doesn't look like I'm a rabbit that's jumping from company to company.
The leverage suggestion is good but if the current ones don't play out the way I want it then I either:
-stay and prove that I'm a beta bitch and they will know that they can keep me with no raises on the horizon; -leave and have a grasshopper CV which will make me be doubtful at the new company -> less chances of raises for at least the first year.
CryptoManbeard 10y ago
The branch swinging isn't as indicative if you're leaving for the right reasons. No one's going to fault you for leaving for a better opportunity, and you can clearly say that. These days companies expect people to show no loyalty, the system is set up that way.
Now what looks bad is if you're leaving every 6 months from every job for lateral moves.
R3v4mp3d 10y ago
Hmmm; I just read up on lateral moves (never heard of em until now).
I'd never do a lateral move to another company since it seems too stupid: risk your current stability for uncertainty and a "maybe better" some place else? No thank you!
bicepsblastingstud 10y ago
Did you get this in writing?
R3v4mp3d 10y ago
Sadly no; it was just a chat over the phone to which (sadly) 3 other HR chicks assisted (I was on speaker). So, it's pretty much up to their morality if they deny it or not.
As far as I know this country, girls fear being accused of low morality since then no BB wants to wife them up. In this case it would look really bad for the company if I told this story to the other employees.
Sketti-Os 10y ago
My advice from personal experience:
Start looking for another position. Go on interviews. Get offers. Once you have an offer, you're gold. You have a bargaining chip.
In the ~week they give you to decide on the offer letter, make a short list of your accomplishments and confront your boss. Use the offer letter if you need to, but as with women: be prepared to take the L. If they say no, or try to bring you down too much, say "I'm afraid I'll have to put in my two weeks notice". It's always good to leave on proper terms. Call the other company, accept, start new.
R3v4mp3d 10y ago
Thank you!
So the bottom line is that there's not really anything you can do inside the company and while negotiating a raise to actually get a raise.
The best option is the "warning of soft nexting" the current company for another more rewarding company. Am I correct?
Sketti-Os 10y ago
If you're a smooth talker, you can craft arguments that you're asking for less than it would take to train a new employee, who would probably ask for no less than what you're asking for, anyway.
But essentially, yes.
Men are the gatekeepers to commitment. We commit because the (sex * benefits) equation is particularly in our favor. When sex gets too low, a girl should be demoted to a friend, or nothing at all. If benefits get too low, a girl should be demoted to a plate, seeing as you're just fucking her. Either way, if one is lacking commitment should stop. There are better girls with higher results of that equation.
Men are employees because of (money * benefits). Again, if either is lacking, employment should stop.
Best analogy I can think of.
R3v4mp3d 10y ago
Fucking golden!
Will save your reply since the metaphor is too tight to let it slip!
Edit: btw, are you from America? Please check the latest edit to this post.
Sketti-Os 10y ago
I can't really speak for averages. Depends on your field. I'm being paid very well.
To give you my details: I'm a 23yo DevOps engineer at a big 10 company. They're willing to shell out $101k/year, which is easily in the top 1% of people my age.
I would guess the average college grad my age is making $40-50k. At $50k, you'll be taking in about $2500/mo after taxes, depending on the state.
A decent apartment also depends on the state. In the city? $2000/mo easily. Try to live on the outskirts, or even suburbs. I'm happy with my $600/mo apartment twenty minutes from the city.
But I take in about $4100/mo, and live VERY comfortably.
ThrownAway10102 10y ago
I nearly doubled my rates by following Ramit Sehti's advice. His free advice is good, and his paid courses can be worth the money depending on the upper end of your industry.
http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/salary-negotiation-earning-more/
alisonstone 10y ago
If you are at a company that would underpay you by 15-30%, you don't want to stick with that company in the long run. Because even if you successfully negotiate a raise, you know that they try to stiff you the next time and the time after that. One of those times, you are going to be replaceable and you will either be stuck with a low salary or you are going to get forced out.
There are companies that actually pay their workers very fairly. Usually this would be the case in industries where they can't handle turnover that well or that the business is vulnerable to workers taking trade secrets/clients to competitors, etc. Those are the companies that you can stick with for the long run. I work in finance (investment management) and there is pretty much no salary negotiations, but everybody gets paid fairly because it is assumed that everybody is knowledgeable about finance (people leave the moment better offers come elsewhere), so management doesn't even try to pull one over you. And turnover is very bad for the firm because employees can leave with trade secrets and turnover makes clients nervous.They'll ask, "If your fund is doing well, why are your analysts jumping ship? Can you maintain your performance in the future without your analysts?".
You want to find a business where the workers can be in this type of position so management is willing to work with you rather than against you. Usually that means a business where if you do better work, the company makes more profit. It is not one where there is a fixed amount of money that the company gets paid for the project and the company makes profit by finding out how to do it for as little cost as possible, e.g. minimizing labor costs, because it creates a situation where employees and management would have an adversarial relationship.
If you choose to stay in a "bad" company, then you have to learn how to be the corporate asshole. I've seen some people have great success manipulating the bureaucracy. They'll dig themselves into a niche role and refuse to teach anybody else. If they are a programmer or IT guy, they may intentionally write very difficult and confusing code so other people can't figure it out. Basically, they go full dark triad in building their moat in the company, they are not really concerned with doing what is good for the company but doing what is good for themselves. They may even sabotage projects (e.g. intentionally getting someone incompetent into an important role) just so they can swoop in at the last second and save the day to get credit for everything. I don't like playing this type of game, which is why I left one of my previous jobs.
krustytheclown2 10y ago
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favours_of_the_moon 10y ago
So, they told you the criteria you needed to fill. You filled it. So call them back and tell them you fulfilled their required criteria.
Worst case scenario: they disagree that you have fulfilled this criteria. If that is the case, then ask for greater specifics.