I've been on five dates with this girl and three of those times things have gotten hot and heavy (Did not spend money on dates, all free activities). After our first date, we ended up making out on my bed but she said she had to leave which was understandable. The second time as I got her on my bed, she explicitly said "We're not having sex" and I replied "That's fine" but continued escalating. I tried moving her hand to my belt but she moved her hand back every time. The third time, I tried rubbing her vagina through her jeans and she said "let's just watch the movie" to which I complied. I really like this girl because she respects my time, she makes it easy to meet with her and she never pulls out her phone when she's with me. I'm aware that I should be hitting on other girls which I'm doing but haven't had success so far. Is there anything I can do to improve this situation? Am I just not being aggressive enough?
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redbluepilling 11y ago
Any guy can be blindly aggressive, it doesn't mean it always works...you just need to better your LMR game, avoid playing her waiting game (she's trying to snag you and put you in a box--remember, you should put her in the box if anything), and think about getting her to want you sexually, no matter what.
Oh, and from experience in a similar scenario...get the idea of a LTR out of your head, especially at this stage. Women don't want a tiger so easily caged.
40Watts 11y ago
Yeah I checked out all of your comments and your responses are the red pill take I was looking for. Don't worry man, I'm not going to consider a LTR until I have sex with her.
I will use the LMR tactics and give you guys an update.
mrust 11y ago
It's not the aggression that is the problem, it's that your push-pull needs better calibration. There's no danger that she wants to put you in the friend zone because you haven't been sexual with her - that would indicate a need for more aggression.
My suggestion would be to escalate more gradually, and when she resists pull back just a little a bit and tease her some more.
You did ok with "That's fine" which was at odds with your physical escalation, but you could have done better.
Here's a couple of ways to handle objections:
Agree and Amplify: You're right, we definitely shouldn't be doing this.... You can take this in many directions:
"...We'll be in danger of having a good time."
"...I want to bite your neck, but I probably shouldn't do that either." (as you bite her neck)
"...We shouldn't be doing this either..." etc. escalate
Be super-explicit about what you are going to do to her.
Qualify her
"You seemed like the kind of girl who knows what she wants, now I'm not so sure."
Flip the script
"Of course we're not having sex, you haven't wined and dined me yet."
Freeze her out
I'm sure you can read up on how to do this.
Read Vin DiCarlo's Escalation Ladder
I suspect your escalation may not be gradual enough. Pay special attention to the part where you lift up her shirt.. I think you might be skipping too many steps. Also pay attention to the concept of plausible deniability. When you rub her through her jeans, you want to do it in such a way that it almost seems to be accidental.
It's also possible that she has some "rule" in mind that you have to meet before she will have sex with you. The most common one girls have is no sex before the third date, which is past due. Hopefully she's not the no sex until marriage kind of girl. Girls will bend their rules if they really like you, but sometimes it's less effort just to meet their criteria.
Other than the above, just keep doing what you're doing and keep escalating. Also keep going after other girls. She will either accept that sex is a healthy and normal part of the relationship or you will find someone else.
One last thing... LMR is an indicator that you didn't build enough rapport. Just relate to her, lead her emotions, and given time you will stop getting this kind of resistance.
redbluepilling 11y ago
This is actually good advice. The other highly upvoted posts sound more like /r/relationships. OP is only spinning one plate and is now thinking about a LTR with this girl--what.
She likes him, but needs his game to be better. It doesn't matter if in her head she wants to slow things down...game breaks that kind of resistance. That's the point. By playing along, it's her game, not his.
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mrust 11y ago
It's actually TBP, but yes you are on the right track.
40Watts 11y ago
Yeah I've actually been following DiCarlo's escalation ladder and I have been noticing results. It's not like I'm stuck at the same barrier every time I hook up with her. I notice I make slight progress every time. The thing is that I feel like I'm pleasuring her more than she's pleasuring me (I'm licking, sucking her breasts, I just get to make out with her). I definitely think I need to connect with her more, most of our dates consist of watching a movie so I guess I'll change that. Thank you for the advice!
rebuildingMyself 11y ago
If you make progress than just be patient and keep testing the boundaries without rushing up the ladder
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redbluepilling 11y ago
This doesn't matter. That's why game and overcoming LMR exists. Regardless, she's into him...so he just needs to play it right. Focus more on getting her to want him, sexually, no matter what her 'rational' side is thinking.
40Watts 11y ago
Yeah this is what I suspected. I guess it's not always as simple as "alpha fucks, beta bucks".
redbluepilling 11y ago
Alpha and beta is a spectrum, and it always varies in reality. You can do dumb beta shit and get away with it if you've been good otherwise. Life's more complicated than four words. But...let's be honest, if you were 100% on top of your game and didn't do any beta shit, you would have fucked her by now. The longer time goes with you hanging out and not fucking, the more you play her game, she'll have less and less respect for you sexually. That's part of the brutal irony we get w/ RP.
upright619 11y ago
I think the same.
Captain_of_the_ship 11y ago
Classic LMR. Dude, it's been 5 dates and still no action? How long are you going to hang in there?
Yeah, I get it, she's a keeper because she didn't look at her phone etc. But time to shit or get off the pot, don't you think?
Read up about escalation. There was the stuff that the TokyoJoe (or whatever his name is) about LMR, it was gold but of course got trash-talked here on reddit. But he knows his stuff.
Good luck! Update pls.
frequentlywrong 11y ago
there is a ton of info out there on how to overcome LMR.
upright619 11y ago
Yep, read some PUA books OP, about LMR.
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mrust 11y ago
An explicit denial means that she has been thinking about sex with you.
"We're not having sex tonight" = "We could be having sex tonight"
After all, woman's prerogative.
Based on his other comments, the girl isn't shutting down every attempt at physical escalation. If that was the case, I'd agree it's time to move on.
The only way to make someone do something is to make them want to do it. So your job is to make her want it.
redbluepilling 11y ago
Seriously, in sales, when a customer says "I'm not going to buy anything" they're very likely to buy something, but only if you sell it well. They say that to convince themselves. Sales/women 101.
upright619 11y ago
I wouldn't push for sex if I was you.
I've slept with a handful of girls by pushing so far as you did. They actually caved and gave me sex. But after some time it's just an ice-cream flavour, if I don't get it, I won't die or be unhappy.
I have met so many girls who are constantly messaging other guys and checking their hair on their iPhones whilst on a date with me. Sometimes even calling people and having long calls on a date with me. I show my appreciation to girls by not answering my phone and texting. If another girl does the same. She gets into my 'I won't pump and dump this one' book. I'm slightly jealous of you. This girl actually shows you respect. There are not many of them. Please don't lose this one.
In addition some girls want a man to organize all the logistics. "Come pick me up!" And get you to drive all the way to the other side of the city when they know it's inconvenient for you. Their mind-set is 'I don't care, he asked me out, he has to show me a good time even if it takes him an hour to get to me and another hour to drop me off, he can organize the petrol money on his own'. But I can see your girl makes it so easy for you to meet her and works with you on the logistics together.
This girl genuinely want to take it to the next level with you. You will have sex with her, because she shows you respect unlike other girls. Provided you wait and be romantic.
It will come. Just be a gentleman and show her your appreciation for her.
raloa 11y ago
seems like she's playing redpillwomen
40Watts 11y ago
Yeah she definitely seems like LTR material. She has her own car as well so she drives to my place which makes it easy on me.
I suspected that she wanted to take things to the next level and I guess I'm gonna have to take her on more dates that are conversation based so I can connect with her more.
I think I will keep escalating but I will stop whenever she tells me to. I will never verbally push for sex because that will just backfire and make me look bad.
mrust 11y ago
This is definitely the way to go, other than the stopping part. Two steps forward, one step back. You want to be playful. But you definitely don't want to respond overtly either as an argument or a rebuttal.
I suggest a walk in the park. Great opportunity for conversation and kino.
BTW, I've been in this exact situation before.. the turnaround point was when she started initiating a lot of kino and being very happy and bubbly around me.
I still got the "we're not having sex" resistance, and I was on the verge of kicking her out when I realized the alternate explanation.. She was on her period.. Cue more escalation and her asking "may I kiss it?"
upright619 11y ago
Glad you appreciate her.
Don't ask for sex. Be attractive and unneedy. If she tells you to stop being sexual start doing little playful things, like drawing circles on her legs or forearms with your fingers. Giving her check kisses, pretty much semi-sexual kino.
With time she'll become more comfortable with you and sexy times will happen.
But don't wait forever. Girls do sometimes make you wait to see how much of a pussy you are. So be a little selfish sometimes, not all the time. Keep her on her toes.
redbluepilling 11y ago
What is this nonsense and useless advice? Go back to relationships
Yeah, she might be trying to play the long game, but that doesn't matter. His game is off...he's playing her game...and playing her game is losing.
upright619 11y ago
Each to their own.
[deleted] 11y ago
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[deleted] 11y ago
retardobot