I made a post a week or so ago about a girl I started seeing who tested my boundaries and I walked away from her. I rationalised her behaviour in the comments and made a fool of myself.
I just want to say: I was wrong, and I apologise to everyone who lifted a finger to help me.
That said, I am now actually asking for your help and I am an open book willing to learn. I've gotta be honest and admit here exactly how I fucked up. It's gonna be embarrassing but it's the only way I can learn from this.
Here I go. We reconciled after I walked away, and things were great for the first few days, but then she started acting up again and once again I didn't tolerate it. The way she spoke to me was shit, mixed with being all over me again. This was confusing - talking down to me, snapping over little things, but the problem was that by this point a switch had occurred in me. I got oneitis.
We had a huge argument a week ago and I told her to go and fuck herself, and she got defensive and started acting like she didn't care. Shut the door on me and told me to never message her again, and I said bye bye and walked away.
We didn't speak for more than a week. Zero contact, but I did notice her snooping my Facebook stories. After a couple more days I reached out to her, and I know I shouldn't have, and her and her sister replied with a voice note mocking it basically.
I tried tragically to get her to talk to me, but she just kept reading the messages and staying silent which made me in turn more and more needy. There was an inner conflict in me between what I knew I should be doing, and what I felt compelled to do and the latter won. I fucked this up.
I gave her an ultimatum and told her she either says something or blocks me by midnight or I'm done. She ended up blocking me in the end. I was fueled by hopium and didn't expect her to call my bluff, and I ended up sending more desperate fucking messages trying to get her to speak to me. I stopped as of this morning, but I'm left feeling a mixture of pain, regret and shame at my behaviour.
Keep in mind I haven't been with a girl in over 3 years since my last relationship. All the red pill knowledge and experience in the world didn't save me from myself, and I was rusty and more vulnerable than I realised I would be going into this. The first week was a home run, I handled everything perfectly and I had no attachment - I was just enjoying her and that was that, but as I said, with drama turned a switch and instead of walking away fully, I leaned into it.
After those 3 years I felt strong again, and like I didn't need anything. My only intention was to get a lay, and I achieved that but I wasn't expecting to grow attached and behave like this. Just threw me through a fucking loop. At least the dry spell ended, but currently I don't wanna spin plates or anything like that - I've still got a lingering attachment to her, and I feel down and like I don't wanna do anything.
This is why I'm here. Please guide me out of this. I want my strength back and to learn from this rookie error. I don't ever wanna behave like this again, and I want more emotional resilience. Help me, brothers.
This time I will listen.
Answer to my own question: Enforce discipline, redirect my energy towards my goals and growth. Cut off all reminders. Reflect on behaviour. Read sidebar.
pofkaf 1 5d ago
Here is a simple, step by step guide to immediately improve your situation.
Hard next this chick. Block her. Cut her off. No communication with her whatsoever. (This is the hardest part, but if you can successfully overcome your attachment to her, everything else becomes much easier).
Hit the gym.
Buy a new wardrobe. Make sure your clothes fit and look good on you.
Hit the gym.
Find a social hobby where women are around. Rock climbing, volleyball, etc.
Hit the gym.
Ask a few women on dates. In person. No online shit. You have to get used to direct face to face conversation.
Hit the gym.
Fuck multiple women, build a rotation, and forget about the chick who you wrote this novel about in the first place.
MidgetSpinner 5d ago
I can do all that, no problem. Will start ASAP.
I'm not sure I care about hitting up other women right now, so the focus is the first few on your list. That said, I do perform music live so plenty of opportunities to meet and talk to girls at some point soon.
I'm just wondering how long of consistently doing this it's going to take for the attachment to go? Because I want it gone right now lol.
Thank you man.
PS. I know her sister finds me attractive too, I could just bang her. Joking joking haha.
ExConvictNowMillionaire 1d ago
Hard to say. In my experience it can take a week but also 1-2 years depending on how much I liked her... Spinning plates speeds up the process because you'll realize she wasn't a unicorn. But I feel you. I've also had break ups where I couldn't be bothered with even texting a girl & just wanted to focus on myself. In the longterm the latter is probably the best method - since spinning plates always seemed more like replacing a void rather than fixing the void.
MidgetSpinner 18h ago
100%. Done all that shit with plates before. Yeah it helps with abundance but if you're doing it to fix feeling like shit after a breakup then you're on the wrong path.
mattyanon Admin 4d ago
don't bang her sister, you are hard nexting this girl and having nothing to do with her (including her family)
yeah, that's the oneitis speaking. fix that shit
mattyanon Admin 5d ago
Fuck 12 hot women.
First-light 2 4d ago
Haven't we all embarrassed ourselves at some point by over investing in women?
It hurts when you take the fall. All you need to do is remember the hurt. Remember also how easily you got led to it by seeing what you wanted to see and you won't get so easily burnt next time.
Having done that be kind to yourself and like yourself enough to make good choices for you. Don't worry too much. You are not the first and you won't be the last. Best of all you are not the fool who wonders what he did so wrong got lose her and decides he didn't simp enough. there are millions of men who come to that conclusion. You know she was not worth the effort now. You are going to be fine.
MidgetSpinner 4d ago
I do actually like myself in general, that's the thing. I have a life, friends, goals and ambition. Women are secondary to all of that, but there's this little bitch that lives inside of me that rears its head whenever I meet a girl I REALLY like - and I am picky these days. Most women don't have this effect on me.
Like I said, initially I was cool as a cucumber and running game perfectly, then a couple of red flags came up and I reacted to them, and that was the downfall. Not only that, but too many nights spent with her cuddling and being affectionate, relationship style shit, and I could feel the bitch within me growing louder. I distinctly remember having thoughts like, "You're infatuated with her" and I basically treated them like intrusive thoughts. I was trying to push them away so I could maintain frame, but they just got louder and then these blowouts made me fear losing her and then I just lost control of myself and all rationale. Man, it's so pathetic but it is what it is.
I'd like to be able to get a grip on this, otherwise I'm fucked. And I forgot to say, thank you man. I definitely saw her the way I wanted to see her, and those red flags were like a jolt of reality, but I ignored them.
First-light 2 4d ago
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4d ago
This is not a normal woman. This is a covert narc or borderline or both
You don't want to hear this but while the moving on process should still have the same staples (fuck other women, date other women, etc) there are components of this one that are not the same
Unlike other plates or FWB you can let come back into your life and be cordial with you cannot do that with cluster B people (men and women)
I have possibly met one cluster B borderline girl and i could never see a single instance of her being borderline. Other than the fact that she completely randomly pushed my friend away for a mild comment she somehow reacted very strongly to and got "uncomfortable" by. He showed me the convo and her discarding of him as a human being made absolutely no rational sense. She was always unbelievably kind and well put together. I can count that example on one hand to the point I wonder if she was misdiagnosed
I have one ex that is borderline/histrionic/narc that we didn't get along with because she wasn't being as exclusive with me as she indicated and her narc friend with feminist leanings went on a gaslighting campaign against me so I dropped her as a friend and as a person. We became civil again and she was very friendly with me and inviting me to places and stuff.
Well her friend was still trashing me at my venue a year later and when I told her it was still happening despite how cordial we are she blamed me for noticing I got disrespected instead of being upset with friend for being an unrelenting manipulative slanderous cunt.
She told me to stop texting her and I blocked her. She is still blocked and still trying to come up to me with my new girl that I am very happy with. It's fucking annoying. These people are just generally unfixable and cannot look within
Rant aside, the general problem with these people is that they have a disordered self-hatred of themselves and they cannot cooperatively function with others. They always have to drip other people's souls out
And the reason I mentioned the one ex is because she is the only BPD I have ever fucked that is somewhat tolerable even though she is a selfish fucktard with zero loyalty and can't respect the fact that I blocked her and have woman around me. That's the most tolerable one I've ever seen. She mostly respects my space but i don't give people third chances.
This woman is not like my ex. I don't give a fuck what my ex does or who she dates or what her past is or whatever because I emotionally removed myself for it. Her presence does not bother me other than that I think she is going to annoy me and my girl, which is not hard to handle anyway but my point is she doesn't bother me really because I distanced from even a well enough mannered BPD
This girl you are dealing with is NOT like my ex. She is insane. These people for your soul and destroy you from within
You are not dealing with a normal plate break. Cluster B's like the ones you dealt with for you and genuinely psychological torment you.
That is not normal female behavior. You cannot treat this like a normal plate break. What you experienced was actual psychological abuse. And it would have only escalated to physical, false accusations, etc.
Your healing process here is understanding you got genuinely psychologically abused and not just the normal moving on from a broken lay.
Never contact her again. Do not be cordial. Do not look for closure from cluster B's, because they will never relinquish their control over you by giving you any actual closure. Closure would remove their ability to hoover and keep sucking you dry.
In this case you just have to banish her from every aspect of your life and heal from actual abuse
You got away early but that's how bad cluster B's are
I once went on four dates with a cluster B who i didn't fuck because she was insane and wouldn't let me run normal game. In one weeks time and four dates, we had exchanged 2,000 text messages and i couldn't function and she sent me a novel ending shit. I had no idea how the fuck that happened
She was intoxicating. She had extreme feminine energy like a siren but wouldn't stop talking about how much of a sex freak she was. It was maddening. I didn't realize what the fuck was happening to me and it was only a week. She was like a siren in the water calling a sailor over.
As a man i never want to experience that kind of love bombing again. I don't think I've ever been love bombed so hard and i don't text often. 2,000 messages in one week was insane.
You need to get away from these people. It is actual abuse
MidgetSpinner 4d ago
Another thing, her loveboming was no where near the scale of what you experienced lol. I know not every case is going to be the same, but this was a more physical and emotional lovebombing.
She seems normal in many ways. Has a social life, but most of the closest people in her life are her family. No father figures though anywhere. It's very much matriarchal.
Also, as I said, I am not perfect myself either. Part of me wonders if it's all my fault, and I'm analysing where I went wrong, what I could have done better, where this neediness comes from etc, because I don't want to be a mental case. There's the "what if"? What if I'm the one sabotaging everything, what if I'm the one who is mentally ill? And if the way I chased her at the end after I had explicitly given her that blocking ultimatum is anything to go by, it would suggest something is not quite right with me as well. But in general, I feel fine and have healthy friendships. I think a lot of my issues stem from anxiety and impulse.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4d ago
So were all of mine
Look, it doesn't matter how all these cluster B's are different, they are almost all the same way fucked up. That's where you can see it
MidgetSpinner 4d ago
I actually see what you're saying now. Although I'm not qualified to either recognise nor diagnose something like this myself, after my last post your words made me somewhat more cautious with her. I could see obvious red flags here and there that I ignored, but the covert stuff - not so much.
I'll give you some prime examples that I think match your analysis pretty well:
I think on the surface you could describe her as an "avoidant" attachment type, but as I said, it's extremely difficult generally to recognise anything deeper than that unless you're qualified.
So, the things that align are her ability to just shut me off after love bombing me for a week or so, and she went hard on the love bombing; everything from holding hands at every opportunity, describing me to her mother as "future son in law", multiple times telling me she was falling for me after sex, showered me with constant affection and passion, chasing and validating me. I'm not gonna lie, it was intoxicating mate. Especially after a 3 year drought.
It did seem like love bombing to my rational mind, but I wasn't complaining either. I think I hamstered it away as, "this is typical with most honeymoon phases", but failed to factor in just how quickly it happened.
Now, where we get into juicier stuff was when conflict began to arise between us.
Things I noticed: Could and would not take accountability at all, extremely defensive and very quick to anger, minimising my feelings or point of view, deflecting blame. Although I did one time get her to admit she wasn't perfect - that's the best I could get out of her. Never heard anything close to an apology though, and she didn't even crawl back when I no contacted her twice for her behaviour which I was clear to her about. She took it as an attack.
Other things to mention, physically threatening behaviour although it never came to that. We were play fighting one time in her room, and I did a little side kick on her stomach (It was as light as possible), and she somehow turned it into accusing me of being a potential woman beater down the line. News flash: I've never hit a woman in my entire life, and trust me, I've had plenty of reason to lol.
The way she'd snap about something inconsequential one minute, and then go back to being passionate and hands all over me the next was fucking confusing and giving me mixed signals. I have to take some blame though and say that my behaviour wasn't perfect either, and I slipped up once or twice and made her retreat or become defensive, but she was just another level of hostile. I only ever took accountability, and even then she would not drop a subject. It started to become like I had to walk on eggshells around her because she'd snap at the tiniest things - thankfully I have some semblance of a backbone and I didn't tolerate it when it happened which is why I had to next her. My biggest mistake was going back.
The way she ghosted me instead of giving me closure seemed callous and cold, and then the eventual blocking. But you could also attribute that to needy and pushy behaviour trying to get that closure out of her.
Prior to that, she blocked me performatively on Instagram after I nexted her after an argument which she caused by being disproportionately angry about something extremely petty and minor, but kept me unblocked everywhere else and was even snooping my stories and trying to be covert about it. I use Facebook Professional Mode so I can see exactly who is watching even if we're not friends.
I am pretty sure I am blocked everywhere now though so she no longer has access to "supply" or whatever, and that only happened because I forced her hand with an ultimatum - either block me, or say something by the end of the day otherwise block I'll you later tonight.
And just in general, she was becoming increasingly more difficult to communicate with. But I assumed that was because of the sudden issues between us, and took it as a result of my pushing. Either way, it very much felt like she was playing a subtle control game, I just can't fully explain how, but I felt it.
My question to you right now is, why would someone with a Cluster B personality type be so willing to give me up as their supply? I haven't heard from her still, I don't see any snooping either yet. I'm not quite sure what their motives are.
ExConvictNowMillionaire 1d ago
Spot on cluster B behavior.... At some point I even started questioning my own behavior. My wake up call was a random girl I meet on vacation. I realized again how normal people communicate lol.
I'm sure they don't even know the motives themselves. Probably a combination of control/power/push pull & being self-destructive Anyway it's hard enough to understand regular women, so don't even bother trying to understand cluster B women
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4d ago
You're making far too many excuses for a cluster B
Just learn how to spot them
Any time a girl moves way too fast emotionally and starts speed-running breakup dynamics and also has a litany of super freaky sex experiences and telling you she's going to hurt you or laughing at stuff that hurts you, or has an extreme emotional reaction to basic accountability, she's 99.99% a cluster B
Stop making excuses for them. You could have been Brad Pitt and she still would have head raped you
Stop making excuses for her abusive behavior. You're never going to heal from these people by blaming yourself
I already know. I've been through this. Your healing begins where your excuses for cluster B's behaviors end
MidgetSpinner 4d ago
Why would she do this though just to cut me off? I'm no longer feeding her. The cut is clear, so she gets nothing out of it other than maybe a temporary ego boost. Which btw, she had a massive fucking ego on her.
Could not tolerate me "talking back" to her, and I remember when I said "fuck you" at the door to her before I left, she went "Who do you think you're talking to??" Haha, I said "YOU" haha. Ahh, that did feel good I have to admit.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4d ago
Narcissistic injury and control
You wounded her ego by doing anything other than lavishing her uncontrollably, which she would have left you for as a woman anyway
And to wound you so you would chase
It's all control
MidgetSpinner 4d ago
Great. Does this mean I'm likely to hear from her again then since I showed neediness at the end, but have cut all ties now? Or is she less likely to because I can see through the majority of her shit? How clean is my break, is what I'm asking.
I really don't understand these people. How are they ever supposed to maintain any kind of functional relationship? What kind of a man could deal with this?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3d ago
It doesn't matter how a BPD gets rid of you
The only way I've successfully gotten rid of BPDs is to lose frame so badly that they ghost me
She'll possibly reach out to youz i would say narcs reach out and hoover more often
Your job is to ignore. You need to ignore her
[deleted]
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4d ago
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (301.81)
Diagnostic Criteria:
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
Diagnostic Features:
The essential feature of narcissistic personality disorder is a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and lack of empathy that begins by early adulthood and is present in a variety of contexts. Individuals with this disorder have an excessive sense of self-importance (Criterion 1), often exaggerating their achievements and talents. They are preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love (Criterion 2). They believe they are superior, special, or unique and expect others to recognize them as such (Criterion 3). They may feel that they can only be understood by, and should associate with, other people who are similarly special or of high status.
Individuals with narcissistic personality disorder require excessive admiration (Criterion 4). Their self-esteem is almost invariably very fragile; they may be preoccupied with how well they are doing and how favorably they are regarded by others. This often leads to a sense of entitlement (Criterion 5) and an expectation of special treatment. They are often interpersonally exploitative, taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends (Criterion 6). A lack of empathy is a key feature; they are unwilling or unable to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others (Criterion 7). They may be envious of others or believe that others are envious of them (Criterion 8). Finally, they often display arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes (Criterion 9).
MidgetSpinner 4d ago
Well, out of the list:
She may have had a grandiose sense of self underneath the surface, but nothing said to me indicated towards that. She referred to herself as "ugly sometimes hot", and I never once heard her boast about anything. Just trying to be honest here.
I wasn't made aware of any of this, but again, could have been under the surface.
I didn't get this sense from her either. She seems to mesh well with all varieties of people, like myself. She may have thought she was special though, she definitely acted like a princess sometimes.
While she certainly enjoyed the admiration and affection I showed her, it didnt seem like she needed it - it was more like she just enjoyed and appreciated it. I didn't see dudes blowing her phone up either, and her social media posts mostly have a few likes and that's it - mostly from friends and family.
This one fits perfectly. She was definitely entitled.
I can't prove this one conclusively, but it felt that way as the relationship started to break.
Not sure about her lacking empathy. It's possible, but there were times where she showed some, not only towards me but others. Though I wasn't around long enough to observe this more broadly. She definitely lacked empathy for me at the end though.
Not sure about this one either. I didn't get the sense she was envious.
Maybe NPD doesn't quite fit, but hard to say without more evidence. She's more likely BPD. Something is definitely wrong with her either way, I know that.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3d ago
Cluster B's usually share traits. She sounds BPD for sure but nearly every BPD has narc traits
MidgetSpinner 3d ago
She seems like an anxious-avoidant attachment type too. Lovebombing me initially, and then when I overeached and a little bit of conflict occurred, she expressed that she was hurt and began to pull away big time. That's why I chased so hard.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3d ago
I'm not into attachment styles.
They are fairly bullshit irrelevant. Ditch the idea
Dude that's not anxious avoidant she's just a fucking BPD crazy bitch
You clearly have very little experience with them
MidgetSpinner 17h ago
I've been with some crazy bitches in the past, but thankfully their level of crazy was obvious much sooner and so I didn't become attached and got away.
With this one, for the most part she seemed good and normal. At least at first, minus the lovebombing but as I said, I wasn't complaining.
Just updating you: I am not in contact with her still, but I am still suffering from the attachment. I'm finding it hard to move on from her despite living my life. I don't know how she's had this effect on me. How the fuck can I move past this?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 17h ago
Honestly, I have started moving on from all of these women the second I allowed myself to have anger over the mistreatment and realizing none of the attachment was real. It's just cluster B disorder for them but feels more real to you because you aren't the cluster B person
It's not real. Fill your life with other meaning and this will go away
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4d ago
Borderline Personality Disorder
Diagnostic Criteria 301.83 (F60.3)
A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
Diagnostic Features
Borderline personality disorder is characterized by a pervasive pattern of instability in relationships, self-image, emotions, and impulsivity. Individuals fear abandonment, leading to frantic efforts to avoid it, often triggered by perceived rejection. Relationships are intense and unstable, swinging between idealization and devaluation. Self-image is inconsistent, with sudden shifts in goals or identity. Impulsive behaviors, like substance abuse or reckless spending, are common, as are recurrent suicidal or self-harming acts. Mood swings are intense but brief, often reactive to stress. Chronic emptiness, intense anger, and stress-induced paranoia or dissociation are also key features.
MidgetSpinner 4d ago
This one fits much better, although she hasn't done any substance abuse as far as I'm aware. She doesn't drink or do any drugs at all. Maybe in the past, but I don't think so.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3d ago
She sounds BPD as hell
MidgetSpinner 3d ago
B for Borderline, right?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3d ago
Correct