She's a waitress, I make the food. I'm closing down the restaurant and she's getting increasingly irritated because it's taking too long - she's got a party to go to and can't leave until I'm done.
She interrupts me while I'm talking to the dishwasher to ask how much longer, she's telling me to hurry up, irritated voice, throwing a tantrum basically. Completely unacceptable behavior.
I tell her the job will be done when it's done and not to use that tone, obviously she gets even more annoyed and it doesn't seem to put me in a better position either (that is, it won't shut her up and get her off my back).
I usually have a teasing frame with this girl ("bratty little sister" I guess you could call it) when we're getting along and I have never yielded to her poor behavior or given her any sign that I'm aware of that I would tolerate any condescension.
I avoided quibbling about logical things with her because that's always a dead end (why can't I put X over there? Because it'll be in the way when I open up shop again on monday, etc....).
My question is first, how could I handle the situation better? I told her not to use that tone, that I would not stress because of her, and after that I basically ignored anything except direct questions from her. However it felt like doing "the silent treatment" which seems weak to me.
I may have somewhat matched her energy level which was probably a mistake. She sounded angry - I sounded annoyed. I should probably either have stayed very calm or have become even more aggressive than she was.
Second question, how should I treat her the next time we work together? Her behavior was totally unacceptable and if she mentions it at all it's probably going to something akin to "sorry if I yelled at you but I really wanted to get out of there, we're cool right?", not cool.
I can't avoid talking to her either because then I'll be the weird one, won't be able to socialize freely with the rest of the staff and won't be able to do my job properly.
My current plan is to act like nothing ever happened, but I feel like I've been walked all over while she clearly rattled me and suffered no consequence.
I don't care a great deal about this particular situation but I really want to behave in a way that people will tend to respect me. I hope it isn't against the rules or subreddit etiquette but like the title says I'm hoping to give away some reddit gold in this thread if there's good advice or discussion to show I appreciate your time.
Thanks for reading.
Misteralcala 11y ago
Don't bring up the past to her - that's a tool women use.
Next time this happens, give her some tasks to do just to get her out of your hair.
"You want to get out of here quicker? Ok. Refill the napkins and straws. Refill the ketchup. Help me wipe down the bar. If you don't want to help, that's fine, but I don't want to hear any complaining out of you unless you're busy. We all want to get out of here."
And then you ignore her like she's not there. If she starts helping you, then fine - thank her for her help. If she doesn't then she will feel some shame at not giving you a hand and she'll shut up and go stew in a corner and twitter about how shitty her job is. It's a win/win.
Edit: Working with women is a slippery slope - you have to make them respect you, but you have to be very careful what you say or do around them - they can turn damn near anything into harassment. Shame is a good tool to use with women if you apply it in a subtle manner. Give them direction and tell them why their help is important to everybody, and that the group's success is dependent on their help (haha!). This plays heavily into women wanting to be the center of attention. Make them feel important and they will do damn near any shitty little task you ask them to with a smile. Reward them with small praise 'thanks' or 'good job'. Treat their negative behavior as a slight betrayal. Women hate people being mad at them, and if you show you are disappointed in them, they will jump to please you.
Edit edit: Thanks for the gold! I shall melt it down to gild my codpiece!
CrazySunshine99 11y ago
That's familiar thinking about shame, I usually read www.therawness.com on shame but I think I need a refresher. Any advice for further resources that would help me in these kinds of situations?
She was already asking me for tasks to do and completing them, but it was part of her aggressive behavior. "Does this go here? Does this need to be done?" and so on. If she was just moping around doing nothing then your approach would have been the only sane one but she was already helping out.
I think you're right about bringing it up later, I'll just swallow my pride on this one and ensure I'll handle it better next time.
Edit: Mentioning this here as well. Instead of becoming angry something I tend to do when someone starts yelling is to point it out in a happy but befuddled tone of voice, "wow, you really sound angry!"
People usually cool down and seem a bit self-conscious. Maybe that's another path to the shame you were talking about? (Showing that I'm unaffected but their behavior is socially inappropriate)
Misteralcala 11y ago
It's fairly simple. You state your case, imply that they are critical to your success and a vital component to the well-oiled machine (hold back the smirk), and if they fail to comply then you just shake your head and look disappointed. Give them the silent treatment and their hamsters will manufacture the shame for them because they feel they are letting others down.
If she's really acting shitty you can reinforce it by comparing her to other girls that work hard and have your respect. Women hate losing to other women by comparison. "You know, you're the only girl who complains like that. It's so unappealing. Why can't you be cool like the other girls?"
Shame is the best tool, but it only works if she internalizes it. The way to do that is to get her to see her shitty behavior and make her believe that it's seen as a huge glaring character flaw to others. Is it manipulative? Yes. Does it work? Fuck yes.
CrazySunshine99 11y ago
Ugh fucking hell, I just realized how the waitresses have been using that on me.
Misteralcala 11y ago
Women learn this shit in grade school. We guys have to play catch-up. That's why it works so well for us - they don't expect us to use their weapons against them.
TheSKSpecial 11y ago
You could have gone the agree & amplify route with that "bratty little sister" frame, said something like "now now, that's not nice. You need to say 'CrazySunshine, can you pretty please (do whatever) with a cherry flavored blowjob on top?'. If not, you're gonna be grounded for a week and no party for you!" Basically just mock the shit out of her to show you're not rattled, until the tantrum stops.
Let it go. No point in being resentful, if you bring it up later she's gonna spin it into a way to make you look bad (i.e. "being mean" or "bullying" her, or that you're just "angry") which could turn everyone against you (unless she's a real cunt).
EDIT: and thanks for the gold!
CrazySunshine99 11y ago
I like the agree and amplify up to a point but she was aggressive enough to yell at me to "let's gooo! get out the door NOOOW!" at which point I told her to mind her tone. If I ignore her completely I feel like a tool but if I choose to confront her at that point it feels like I'd have to pretty much become aggressive (obviously not physically but body language and tone).
I think you and Misteralcala are spot on about letting it go, no way to make it better.
Edit: One thing I tend to do in less charged situations is to point out someones anger. "Wow, you sound really upset" while sounding happy but a bit befuddled. This sometimes makes people self-aware and they cool down.
If I were to escalate it would force someone to either call or fold I suppose.
TheSKSpecial 11y ago
Then you turn it up even more.
"Yelling louder doesn't make me move faster, little miss bossy-pants. Now you have to say 'pretty please with a cherry flavored blowjob on top, and anal. Or you'll be grounded for two weeks!"
If she gets louder or more aggressive, turn it up again. Come up with some of the most ridiculous things for her to say or do or she'll be grounded for a month, 6 months, a year. Tell her to do a curtsy. Say it in a baby-talk voice. Tell her you'll do it if she can name 5 U.S. Vice Presidents.
Basically you just troll the fuck out of her, until she gives up the tantrum, somebody else tells her to shut the fuck up, or somebody else caves in and gives her what she wants. The key is that you didn't, and you showed (in a funny way) that her attitude won't fly with you.
CrazySunshine99 11y ago
Haha, okay, I like it. It's going to take some practice but I think I could pull it off.
Thinking about it, maybe I should only escalate conflicts (louder voice, aggressive body language, physical violence) in situations where I can realistically follow through on those threats (not with bratty little girls at work). Otherwise I'll just reveal how powerless I am when all I can do is yell back.
[deleted] 11y ago
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CrazySunshine99 11y ago
This sounds a bit out there and I must admit I thought for a second you might be joking.
I kinda like it though. I used to have very negative feelings around people who were openly aggressive in that manner but I can see how it could be just another tool in the toolbox.
Of course that sort of behavior is considered highly anti-social and like you say it might not be a good idea at work.
I really like the unpredictability of it. I hate feeling that people see me as meek or harmless.
niczar 11y ago
One thing that people seem to have missed is that when people have some sort of automatic behavior in a particular environment, you need to snap them out of it. In a stern voice, tell her you have to talk to her, at the end of the shift if there isn't time right now. Get her away from other people, look at her in the eyes, maintain frame and speak calmly.
"Look, this is a stressful job. Sometimes we all let it get to us and we need to blow up steam. I understand that. At the same time, we're all in this together. I'm telling you this because I think you're a good person, and you need to realize that you have to respect your coworkers. Are you a good person? Be respectful, ok?" If she starts interrupting you, keep cross your arms, keep staring at her, "are you finished? can I say what I have to say now?"
Next time she is being bratty, look at her and tell her "respectful".
CrazySunshine99 11y ago
This is good. I told her to respect me while walking past, no eye contact, non-assertive body language and she easily ignored me.
I think my biggest insight is that whatever method I choose I have to commit to it fully. If I'm going to confront her directly, I'll need to have her stand still and look her in the eyes. If I choose to make fun of her I gotta take it all the way and if I have to get angry I may have to get really angry.
Misteralcala 11y ago
Anger is never a good thing to show to a woman. Shit tests are meant to make you lose frame. Once you get angry or get butthurt, you're giving them that power over you - you've shown yourself as weak and easy to provoke. Treat them like children. Amused mastery is always the best alternative to anger - that is, show amusement while maintaining control. Smirk and laugh. Point and tease. Let them know you view them as children throwing a tantrum and they will abandon their course of action. Raising your voice at a woman can get you fired, because women get preferential treatment and all she has to do is play a victim to your outburst.
CrazySunshine99 10y ago
I like this. Can I ask you a follow-up question?
We had some apple pie left that I'm experimenting with for the new menu. I was going to treat the dishwasher and whoever wanted it to some pie before we left but the rude girl got me entirely sidetracked.
Do you think I should've ignored her and had pie with the dishwasher and made her wait? I wouldn't do it just to piss her off but I really don't see why I should let her tantrums interfere with my normal actions at work (including sampling new menu items with my other co-workers).
Misteralcala 10y ago
Hell yes! Eat that pie. If you don't want it, I'll eat it for you! Never reward shitty behavior. I would have made her wait.