A while ago at the subreddit, I was asked about how much to invest in a date or dates before sex. Here was the exchange:

Let’s say you have your first date, she refuses sex. Drop her immediately already? Or give her the chance for maximum of 2 or 3 dates.

in concrete terms, however, this means that you have to give every woman an advance payment in „everything else“ until you receive your first sex...... But here is the underlying problem. When dating a new woman, you HAVE to give her everything else kinda. You can’t rely on women to organize the date for you, pay for drinks and shit. It’s your job, mostly. You have to ask her out. You have to plan the date, where and when. You often have to pay for the drinks (atleast society expects this from you. I personally stopped paying shit for her, always split). YOU have to give her your time, attention, make her want you, make you standout, show her you‘re the amazing guy she wants to meet again......Unless you‘re agreeing on a easy Netflix&chill date or you run into each other in a seductive environment like a club, you are the one who have to do ALL the work. You have to sell a woman on everything UNTIL you achieved the first sex. Then, and only then, it’s possible to reduce your job on only one single thing - which is her having sex with you whenever you want it.

This ofc leads to some problems with entitled bitches nowadays. Since they expect you to do all the work, beginning from approaching, planing, meeting, messaging, seducing, escalating and everything else, you are responsible for everything. Some if not even all women will indeed take advantage of this fact that she has to do nothing until she‘s hooked. This leads to her avoiding sex as long as possible. So what does this mean in the end for us men?

we have to find the fine balance between giving too much and being too passive. this is a difficult tightrope act to tackle. and we need to know when and how to do our job, which, afterwards means as much as of how to adjust and exploit the moment when we hand over all the work to her and only lean back on our job to get her sexually involved.

And I answered:

The general rule is getting physical on or before the third date. Doesn't necessarily have to be full on P in V sex. But IMO, clothes do need to come off, and she needs to put some skin in the game by the third date. You should at least be getting a BJ out of it by then.

Three dates is long enough for her to decide how into you she is. Three dates is enough time for her to figure out what she wants and whether she's interested in you sexually. Look, no one's blowing smoke up anyone's ass here. You want to get sex. She knows it, you know it, everyone knows it. She knows why you talk to her. She knows why you've asked her out. It's because you want to fuck her. Everyone knows that. So make your intentions clear and set them out boldly in word and deed. Own them. Act on them. And if it becomes clear to you that that's not going to happen, then move on. If that becomes clear to you in the first 15 minutes, end the date, thank her for her time, and say bye. If that doesn't become clear until the end of the third date, end the date and ghost.

If she's under the age of 45, she most likely has been on dates with other men. She most likely fucked at least one or two of those men on the first date or certainly within the 3 date benchmark. Your attitude is that you should be getting whatever Chad got to have. You should not be required to expend more time, effort, or resources than Chad did to get what he got. Whatever she gave Chad, that's what she gives you, and within the same time frame. Otherwise, she's not feeling it, she's not attracted to you, and you need to move on.

It's fine that she's not attracted. It's fine that she has decided that you don't get what Chad got to have. She's completely within her rights to make that decision. But the instant it becomes clear she just doesn't like you that way, and you won't get what Chad got to have, she gets no time, effort, or resources. Or she gets no more time, effort, or resources.

I've seen it recommended that men should at least go for the kiss on the first date. If she does anything other than enthusiastically return the kiss and kiss you right back, NEXT her and do not take her out again. When most women have fucked a Chad on the first date, she at least, AT LEAST, needs to show you some physical interest on the first date. Where women decide in the first 10 minutes of meeting you how far they will ever let you get with them, the very least she can do is liplock and tongue action during the first date.

Turns her head? Next. Offers cheek? Next. Refuses? Next. Hugs no kiss? Next. Little unenthusiastic closed mouth peck? Next. Open your fucking mouth and tongue kiss me, or i'm done.

The first date should be drinks only, not more than an hour. That's enough time for you to get acquainted and for her to decide if you're fuckworthy. End it at an hour unless it's going well and you might get sex.

Another rule is that you take her as far as you can sexually, as soon as you can. Make her apply the brakes. Make her tell you stop. Make her show you definitive boundaries - "This far and no farther". That's fine, she can have whatever boundaries she wants. Make her state those boundaries, CLEARLY. Make her stake them out. Make her make a choice. Make her say yes or no. Make her draw the line and you walk right up to it. Because that's the only way you will know where and what her interest is. That is the only way you'll know whether you're fuckworthy or you've been pegged as Billy Beta.

Is she uncomfortable with those boundaries? Uncomfortable expressing them to you? Showing clear discomfort during the escalation? Does not respond positively to light touching on forearm or small of back? Pulls away when light touching is attempted? Responds negatively to overt sexualizing of the conversation or demeanor? She's not attracted. You're Billy Beta. You're there for her attempted resource extraction. Immediately disengage and end the date. If you're at her place, leave. If she's at your place, politely end the date and invite her to leave. Offer to pay for her cab or uber.

The minute, and I mean the very minute, you figure out that she's not sexually interested, end the date and bounce. How do you know there's no interest? Checking her phone every 30 seconds. Looking around. Looking away. Gives you one word responses. Shows you resting bitchface. Sneers, rolls her eyes, sighs heavily, checks her watch or phone for the time. Takes a call while with you. Texting others while with you. You see any of these? She's not interested. "check please." Pay the bill and leave. She wants you to stick around so she can get you hooked in and extract resources. No.

Make the dates something you enjoy doing and would be doing anyway. Something you enjoy doing. If she balks and complains about it, bounce. If she says she doesn't want to do what you want and instead suggests a restaurant whereupon you will purchase her a dinner, bounce. No. YOU are the one taking the risks. YOU are the one shelling out a little cash. Therefore, YOU are the one who decides what will be done on the date. If she doesn't like that, she's free to decline. NEXT.

Yes, you will spend some money. Yes you will spend some time. But it's time and money you'd spend doing this thing you like doing anyway. $30 for drinks is nothing. Spend it. An hour is nothing. Spend it.

Look, some of you people need to get fired up and pissed off about this. You are men. You work hard for what you have. You've done a lot and put up with a lot. You are not here to be stripmined for resources. You were not put on this goddamn planet to be some washed up party whore's consolation prize. Paying some single mom's bills is NOT a life purpose. Putting up with some trashy bitch's cunting around is NOT a life mission. You did not go through hell on earth and build something for yourself just to have to spend it fixing some borderline's daddy issues, personal hangups, sexual "repression", and post traumatic stress disorder. So fucking DON'T DO IT. Just start saying no.