So, let’s say I bought myself a whole heap of cheap burgers. I got the visa to some sub saharan african country, went to this country to visit some poor backwater african village. There is a table in the center of the village, I put all my burgers to the table. I don't say anything, I don't offer a price, or conditions, I just sit there, say nothing and let the burgers speak for themselves. Now, the people in the village aren’t really dying from hunger, they will live on, but they are little malnourished and what little food they have tastes bland, the burgers are super valuable to them, so the news go around and very soon a big crowd surrounds me and my treasure.
Not knowing any better, the villagers start to try to coax me into giving them a burger. Some of them perform their tribal dance for me, some flatter me, telling what a good hunter and warrior I am, what a wise chieftain I would make etc. Some offer me a zebra ride or a crocodile hunt. Some give me things, expecting me to give them burgers in return. Usually it's some garbage, like charms etc., but sometimes it's things like gems and leopard hides. I enjoy it all. I enjoy dances and praises, I participate in fun activities, I gladly accept the gifts. But I don't hand the burgers over just yet, I've never promised I would, I'm not obliged to. Just maybe one or two burgers occasionally because I decided so. Like this time when I've noticed two africans who appear to be friends and I tossed a burger to one of them and they started to fight because of it. Boy was it fun!
But unfortunately, it's not all fun and games. While I was having fun I nearly missed a bunch of villagers with clubs and spears coming my way. Judging by their expressions I realised their intention didn't include performing a dance to me. Maybe they were the bandits to begin with and got the news just now, but maybe it was something to do with my behaviour? Hell if I know. My demeanor shifts drastically. I start yelling. I inform these gentlemen that I have a PROPERTY RIGHT for my burgers which is sacred. If they want burgers they first must learn what the CONSENT is. Consent means BOTH parties have to agree, and I've never said I agreed. I also added that they are all fucking n*****s who only think to try and rob white men of their burgers, and those who don't are enabling those who do, and are a part of the problem. So they have to educate themselves on capitalism, freedom and consent before they could be considered a decent part of the human population. I also threatened them to report them to my country's government so it would level their sorry village with bombs and then I briefly departed.
Obviously, I was in my full rights to do what I did. Do I have a right to posess and manage burgers how I see fit? Absolutely! Do I have a right to visit this place? I do, I've told you I have the visa. Can I show off and brag about my food? Well, there was a stigma about it before, but good thing this unliberal, unnecessary, backwards stigma has been lifted several decades ago. If anything, I'm a poor victim!
The behaviour of those savages, on the other hand, is highly problematic. Do they think a white man is a machine where you put zebra rides into and get a burger in return? Didn't they know telling me I'm a good hunter is a basic human decency? I really thought they were dancing to me just because they wanted to make friends with me (holy shit, is this a real ruby?!), but in the end they only needed me for my burgers. Honestly, I'm shocked how heartless and mercantile the Africans can be. I'm sure If they danced out of kindness, not because of the burgers they would have been well fed right now, their attitude is the problem! And what do you mean by "hungry eyes" and "visible ribs"?
[deleted] 5y ago
Trying to understand womyn by playing on retired prejudices from a bygone era. A++
Btw you can use the word sniggers instead of the N-word and you won't get banned.
kevin32 Mod 5y ago
While I understand the message the analogy is trying to convey, it's missing some elements that are crucial to fully reflect the real experience of Nice Guys.
The common themes from Nice Guys who complain about rejection and the friendzone is:
The woman rejects them because they were unattractive (too short, too nice, etc).
The woman takes advantage of the Nice Guy's kindness for attention and favors.
These elements aren't explored in your analogy. As it stands it makes you look mostly innocent and that the men are throwing their resources at you and demanding burgers in exchange. It would be more accurate if you included:
how you were part of the problem by deliberately flirting or demanding that they dance, flatter you and give you things
reasons why you rejected them when they asked for a burger
reasons why you think you're entitled/expect men to do things for you without giving a burger in exchange
I also think there's somewhat of a disconnect with using a white man with burgers and hungry African men. Since we're describing the dynamics of how attractive women relate to men they find unattractive, I think the analogy should simply switch the sexes: So for example you could be a handsome man who visits a club/ghetto, and how you take advantage of all the girls who want to date you. Not to say to change what you have now, just I think this perspective could be understood better by readers.
Stahlboden 5y ago
I beleive the relationships "orbiter-woman" are not the mirrored copies of "woman-chad" relationships to make an irritatingly good analogy. Women play long game, chad smashes and dashes. Women benefit from plausible deniability, chad benefits from ghosting. Betas have no options, women struggle to achieve the combination of AF and BB they think they deserve, e.t.c. What I wanted to display is basically the same orbiting shitshow, with a chooser, a bunch of beggars, a bargaining chip and playing dumb, but with shifted moral milestones:
The beggars are both oppressed and "oppressed". You don't just say that whatever happens to people in Africa is 100% their own fault, that's a no-no.
The chooser is both privileged and "privileged"
The bargaining chip went from the hysteria inducing "sacred cow" (sex) to something trivial and even little disparaged (burgers).
And playing dumb is the same. The burgers story is not far from being based on real events actually and it shows women their moral position is not impeccable at all.
I don't disagree with you, but it has been said many times already. I wanted to focus on other things:
1) This "nobody owes anybody anything" talk r/niceguys so loves works perfectly if the parties are equal, but in reality they are not, women have much higher SMV and they naturally know the Game better, so here it gets nuanced. They use use lowkey sexual provocation and intentional ambiguity to make betas act. Not all women manipulate niceguys into doing what they do but many of them do, and none of them gets the blame.
2)Women either know explicitly they are using desperate and ignorant betas in their own interests, or, in any case, they have no excuses not to due to their position. They would try to use a plausible deniability, but they have no right to play dumb in their position as the white man don't get to say "oh, I didn't know they were actually poor and ignorant! I thought they just wanted to be friends". He has immensely higher economic power and much better understanding of the Game. It's not the africans' job to somehow convince him they are poor and don't know western people's ways, it's the privileged people's job to "check their privilege". This is my main point here. "The presumption of guilt for the orbiting". If you don't tell your beta explicitly he has no prospects of romantic future with you, you are morally flawed. If you also accept any valuable things from him unilaterally you are basically a con artist.
Ask women on r/niceguys: if a drunk girl is horny and is really eager to go down your pants does it excuse you from being a "rapist"? I bet it's not, you should know better. The same principle applies here.
[deleted] 5y ago
[deleted]
Stahlboden 5y ago
Well, continuing the analogy, I can manage my burgers in any way I please, I can display them in the most provocative manner possible, I can basically wave my burgers in front of their faces, it doesn't mean they gain a right to even touch one with a finger. In return they are free to do the same thing with their plain pottage (Unless it offends me), so it's a fair game.