The importance of lifting is mentioned so often here on TRP. And for a good reason.
Muscles are an indicator of how well you take care of yourself, and people become subconsciously more submissive to you and respect you more if you're jacked. However, the way you carry yourself is equally important as muscles. Through years I've been sitting in front of a screen or with my laptop in my bed with the wall as support for my back. That has made me develop a horrible posture that I've improved a little, but there's still a long way to go.
An alpha male keeps his head held high and shoulders back because he is a leader and highly competitive with a strong frame and ready for battle if someone should try to harm him. A beta with slouchy shoulders and a head pointing towards the floor instead of forward is basically telling others that he is "defeated" even if he has muscles. The reason why alphas receive more shit tests than betas is because people try to test if his frame is as strong as his body language is stating it to be, however, a beta with a bad posture is telling "my frame is weak, you don't even have to test it". That's the reason why a bad posture dries pussy like a dry sponge. With a bad posture you are also more prone to injury at the gym.
Now for a problem to be fixed, one must first find out there is a problem in the first place. I never realized how horribly I carry myself before I saw some photos of myself that someone took spontaneously. If your posture is good, great, if not, continue reading as I will point out the three main posture problems that many people(including myself) have today:
APT(Anterior Pelvic Tilt):
Also called the Donald Duck syndrome, APT is when your pelvic tilts backwards, which makes your lower back look like that of Donald Duck.
The reason for this is mainly that your lower spine and hamstrings are tight while your abs and glutes are weak, which pulls your pelvic area backwards. The quickest fix for this is of course to strengthen your abs and glutes, but also to stretch your lower spine and hamstring by doing lunges. Another very good exercise for this is the plank where you make sure your posture is good by flexing your abs and glutes, for example doing it in front of a mirror to watch if you're doing it well, otherwise it will do more harm than good.
Forward shoulders:
This is the first thing people think when you mention "bad posture". Many people think your need to pull you shoulders back, and there is some truth to this, but not to tilt your upper spine/rib cage backwards. You are supposed to put them "in place". If you tilt your rib cage backwards, you will most likely enhance APT and it will make your ribs stand out, which will be exhausting when doing it for a longer time. And most of all, it doesn't look good nor natural with a backwards tilted rib cage. You have to make sure your rib cage is in place and that your shoulders are in line with the rest of your body. It is easier if your trapezius and rear deltoids are strong therefore I highly recommend doing exercises that hit these muscles when you're at the gym and make them a part of your routine if they aren't already.
Forward head posture:
This one is the one I'm dealing with the most, but it's also probably the most important for having that alpha posture with your head held high. I have a long neck and I've always slouched it forwards. It is basically caused by weak neck muscles, which need to be strengthened. Just like with your shoulders, you are not supposed to push your head backwards, which will only make you look like you swallowed a broom stick, but instead to put your head "into place". That will also result in a thicker neck if done correctly, and we all know how important a thick neck is in terms of looking strong compared to a pencil neck. The exercises that should be done are shown in this video, which I find incredibly helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQylqaCl8Zo
Another thing you should do for overall posture is to sit on a gym ball instead of a chair while being aware of your posture and to put your screen up to eye-level, which will help correct the posture of your shoulders and neck.
Most important is constantly being aware of your posture, which will become automatic after enough practice. Your goal is to look like a skyscraper in Dubai instead of the leaning tower of Pisa.
SoulRedemption 5y ago
Gud post. Thanks for putting this together.
Saifa89 5y ago
Commenting for future referance
bipedalsentient 5y ago
It's easy to resolve APT. Strengthen the adductors so that the glutes learn to fire properly in order to produce correct stability of the femurs. Adductors and glutes work together. Then release the hip flexors through deep tissue work and strengthen the hamstrings.
Tonnes of people with APT waste their time by just focusing on hamstrings and hip flexors, not knowing that in order to get the glutes to fire properly (I.e. by itself in the correct context of standing) you need to first learn to engage the adductors which stabilise the knees.
You can't consciously contract your abs and glutes while you are standing thinking over time they'll fire automatically in the right context. No one does this and however those will looks like a douchebag not because it looks good but because it looks bad. Muscles firing in an integrated context compared to conscious isolated contraction are hugely different.
As32b 5y ago
Really made me think when a hot girl at a club came to me and said: "You are tall and handsome, fucking carry yourself straight and let it show."
Leoxiphos 5y ago
what a lass, bless her. love blunt people.
ex_addict_bro 5y ago
Got her number and f-closed?
As32b 5y ago
Kissed her, got the number, setup a date which she cancelled the day before.
ex_addict_bro 5y ago
GOOD. New guys, see that? What she did was a shit test. Do you really think she would approach some Quasimodo because she wanted him to straighten his back?
Appex1 5y ago
She was probably right. So much potential for our SMV is wasted by bad posture.
As32b 5y ago
Yes, she absolutely was. I've been trying to pay attention to my posture, but sometimes I just "forget it", since I'm not quite there yet. I personally find a great posture much more important than being muscular.
TRPDigesting 5y ago
There was a period of about 3 months last year where I made posture into a a daily sort of discipline. The first month took quite a bit of conscious thought, but the second and third got easier and easier...
Like most things, it's the law of accelerated returns. Mentally electroshock yourself into the good habits and your body will naturally desire to do it more often.
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womans_algorithm 5y ago
I was doing it for a couple of months (when it was posted on TRP about 2 years ago) and it improved my posture by a lot.
Appex1 5y ago
I didn't even see that video. That seems to be very useful, especially for someone who sits in front of the computer too much.
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Yourstruly777 5y ago
For APT, wouldnt it make sense to strengthen hamstrings to assist the abs in rotating the pelvis counter to APT rotation.
[deleted] 5y ago
For APT it helps me to imagine there's a string attached to my head like a puppet pulling me up. It engages my abs and glutes and basically fixes it most of the time.
Edit: kind of like u/TakuanNoho and u/Dsc_pat said. It's called the Alexander technique.
ZidaneLoire 5y ago
Fucking love this subreddit. Everytime I'm looking for info about something, someone writes an article about it.
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Appex1 5y ago
I am glad you have that experience. I also have that opinion about this subreddit.
Brewju 5y ago
facepulls are an excellent exercise against forward shoulders.
Appex1 5y ago
Yes, they really hit your trapz and rear deltoids.
Luckyluke23 5y ago
yeah i really need to start doing them on back day again
Brewju 5y ago
you should do them 2-3x per week for healthy shoulders if you do a lot of pressing exercises.
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VickVaseline 5y ago
Guys, sort this out while you are still in your twenties. Once you get to 58, all the stretching and releasing in the world isn't going to do much because your bones and connective tissue will all be hardened into the wrong shape.
theaussiemilkman 5y ago
Can I add in that APT is caused also by weak hip flexors. Probably more so than tight hamstrings. We sit causing them to be short and weak. Source: exercise scientist struggling with my own APT
Yog-Nigurath 5y ago
A lot of posture suggestions, but Jeff Cavaliere has an excellent video about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQqgf8kB6R8
Check his excercises, he is the best in the fitness scene.
thegeckomaster 5y ago
Highly reccomend this link https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/posture-power-how-to-correct-your-body-alignment.html
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[deleted] 5y ago
I cannot remember where I read it, but the intent was to visualize a hook at the top of your head. There is a string attached and it is pulling you up and straight. This has helped with visualizing strong posture.
Dsc_pat 5y ago
It is called the Alexander Technique. It helped me as well.
khiara22 5y ago
For forward shoulders, does the 'Wall Angel' exercise work well?
Appex1 5y ago
I just looked into and yes it does!
hombreliberado 5y ago
Great post. I found this video a while back to help with the shoulders. I do this move every day at the gym for 1 minute now, and it feels awesome ???? Rounded Shoulders Fix
procountry 5y ago
Check out systema... Russian Martial arts. Especially Kevin Secours' work. Great easy exercises to create perfect functional posture through movement. I teach it to my high school students. They eat that stuff up.
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Torabor64 5y ago
Maybe. Probably you will fuck yourself instead thought. You cannot perform a proper deadlift if you suffer from APT
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eyewant 5y ago
Do you have an archive of the antlers post?
Appex1 5y ago
To the top with you, Heathcliff!
Visualization is key to giving your mind and body a reason to have a badass posture. You did a great job explaining how to actually use your mind to improve your posture, which I mentioned, but didn't go into depth with.
Pimpus 5y ago
Poor posture will devastate your health, it's only a matter of time. It's well-understood that a pinched nerve in your spine can affect the healthy functioning of the corresponding part of your body. For example, I used to have chronic fatigue syndrome because of a misaligned vertebra, caused by rounding my back, which carried the nerves for my adrenal glands.
People's postures are going to shit because of technology and the Western lifestyle and I believe it's responsible for the silent epidemic of digestive and hormonal problems we're seeing, which will only get worse without anyone having a clue as to why. Consider all the people with back and neck problems who need painkillers to exist in a reasonable manner and we can make the prediction that the opioid epidemic will get worse, too.
Lifting won't fix your posture, as you noted, but it can certainly mess up your spine when done improperly. Stop lifting and focus on stretching, massage, and body-weight exercises until your posture is passable. Poor posture is also related to "muscular armor" -- neurotic patterns of holding tension in your body -- which tends to have psychological roots. Addressing the physical symptoms can improve your mental state, and vice versa.
Also, if you're reading this and think you have perfect posture, you're almost certainly wrong. Very few people I see have even good posture, at least in Western countries. You should start with the baseline assumption that your posture can be improved significantly.
Appex1 5y ago
You are very right about:
I think my bad posture not only comes from being addicted to technology for the most of my life, but also from being an "outcast" so to say. In my childhood and early teens I rarely fitted in with the others, which left me very shy and gave me that "muscular armor" which you mentioned. Often it is a good idea to address mental problems as they tend to be the worst and often manifest themselves in the physical body.
Robalot1970 5y ago
I am pushing 50 now and am suffering due to not paying attention to posture. When I allowed the stress of life to get to me the muscles near my right shoulder blade completely locked up. Like everything in life, when you don't pay attention to the details and you allow circumstances to influence you things go bad.
ohsshitimsorry 5y ago
Been in the process of fixing my forward head posture issues for a week now. If you ever have a kid, tell them to straighten the fuck up, and don't stop telling them until it's burned into their brain. i've been walking around like this since i was 12 just because my parents always had the ''You're perfect just the way you are'' attitude and wouldn't tell me when i did something wrong.
Appex1 5y ago
My parents were very strict when I first started slouching, but basically gave up on my when I was 13 because I was so hopeless.
iSOeLATED 5y ago
Great post. However, if you have anterior pelvic tilt, it isn’t necessary or even recommended to stretch the hamstrings. I used to have anterior pelvic tilt and was able to improve my spinal posture by using various exercises and stretches, but one of the first things I learned (from a PT and many different sources) is that you should not stretch the hamstrings with anterior pelvic tilt. Most people, including myself, totally neglect to stretch the hip flexors, which is very often the culprit. Also, planks are great, but once your body can do one for 60 seconds without too much struggle, you need to amp up the core strengthening. STRETCH THOSE HIP FLEXORS
I’ll include sources.
https://breakingmuscle.com/amp/fitness/stretching-your-hamstrings-isnt-always-best
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ6fAO765qo
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u1sfPfsESDQ
Also, don’t forget to stretch the piriformis
Torabor64 5y ago
This. APT is weak abs, hamstrings and glutes; tight hip flexors and low back.
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BigClitorisDick 5y ago
I just posted a daily routine check my history
pmmedenver 5y ago
Fixing your rounded shoulders is critical because it's important for that "v-taper" look. You also won't be able to hit your lats in the gym unless you have good scapular posture so it's also important for those wings under your arms. It also expands your chest and just makes you wider and bigger. Finally, its important for overhead movements (do you even overhead press, bro?) and spine stability (critical for heavy compound lifts), and also healthy bicep tendons. These are the sexiest qualities a man can have, and therefore your back is the most important muscle group you can hit.
Yourstruly777 5y ago
Agree. Yates rows, tons of them. Lats and traps!
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trapaik 5y ago
G shit. Weighted punches shadow boxing in the sauna.
infamous3238 5y ago
WRONG. Tightening your hamstrings will actually decrease APT by pulling your butt downwards. The biggest factor you left out is tight hip flexors. These should be stretched, NOT your hamstrings -- if anything your hamstrings should be strengthened. I've found that hip flexor stretches and ab strengthening are the best solutions to APT.
marv86kw 5y ago
This is correct, hip flexor tightness is the usual culprit of the hyper extended back duck walk sybdrome. Tight back and weak glutes too.
Thotwrecker 5y ago
Yes - my posture and APT improved / almost near fixed by stretching hips and strengthening hams. Even though I train hams, they are weak from years of not being properly engaged when I deadlifted, squatted, walked / hiked, ran, etc. This is very common, and until you fix it, you cannot really get proper mileage out of any exercise involving legs.
Tight hip flexors are a bitch, and they are unavoidable, you have tight hip flexors if you work a 9-5 seated job. For the vast majority of men, they need to be stretching their hips and strengthening their hams.
calfmonster 5y ago
Yeah the reason people think their hamstrings are tight is that they’re constantly under stretch when you have APT, so they FEEL tight, but in reality they’re weak and overstretched.
Anterior ab stability and glute/hamstring work + dealing with overly tight hip flexors should do it
Morphs_ 5y ago
Yeah OP was being confusing with his info. Also, referring to Donald Duck is not as effective as just saying: tilt your hips so your ass sticks out.
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fridgefucker12 5y ago
Got any tips for the opposite? I have slight Lordosis I think
Yourstruly777 5y ago
Deadlifts and to a lesser degree squats. Will work your hip flexor, quads and lower back to counter that rotation.
bipedalsentient 5y ago
Those three muscles cause apt when tight.
Yourstruly777 5y ago
Yes, but his problem is the opposite
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fridgefucker12 5y ago
Nah I deadlift and squat all the time. That ain't doing shit for me.
Nutman-maddog 5y ago
Heres some things that worked for me:
Putting down the Smartphone. So many idiots live their lives through these devices. Its sad.
Stretches, your muscles will not like you or grow as well if you neglect stretching them regularly. It's an important part of lifting.
Deadlifts. Strengthen that lower back.
BigClitorisDick 5y ago
Lower cross syndrome, or anterior pelvic tilt, is heavily caused by tight hip flexor which insert directly into the lower back region, and also tight lower back. Hams have nothing to do with it.
Stretch hip flexor and lower back and strengthen core and glutes.
My ATP Fix:
deep kneeling lunge stretch w/twist towards side with knee up: 2 x 30 sec (2 reps per side, make mind muscle connection and really focus on stretching hip flexor).
Butterfly stretch : 2 x 30 sec.
deep heel squat isometric hold: 1 x failure (don't exceed 2 min) (stay back on heels in a very deep squat like a group of Slavs drinking vodka on corner. . Do not lean forward, stay back on heels!).
glute bridge : 2 x 20 with 3 second isometric hold at peak contraction on every rep (squeeze glutes as tight as you can for 3 seconds like ur preventing someone from ramming a pencil in your ass, u fag. Add weight by resting your upper back across a bench and hold a plate on your abdomen).
prone isometric hold (plank): 2 x failure (when you do plank you MUST keep your hips in line with your body, do not have them too high or too low. Consciously squeeze your abs tight and also squeeze your glutes as tight as you can the entire time. Keep history of your time and do more time every night).
Do this every day for a month and your atp will be gone.
Edit: I want to add that you should also do more direct core work that just planks. Add some v-ups, bicycles, situps, etc.
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BigClitorisDick 5y ago
1 month if you do it every night and make conscious effort throughout the day to not walk around like donald duck or I will put my own dick in my ass
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BigClitorisDick 5y ago
Lay on floor and practice making your lower back flat with the ground. Push your lower back into the ground until your back is completely flat. Then when you stand up practice the same thing. "push" your hips under your body, activate your core, and glutes somewhat. It will make more apparent how tight your hip flexors are, and how weak core and glutes are.
senor85oh 5y ago
Do you guys feel a posture corrector brace would be a good thing to get while simultaneously doing exercises to naturally get better posture?
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GodEmperorofMankindd 5y ago
As a child my father had me put a plank of wood behind my back tied with rope to make me have better posture.
baseballfan0 5y ago
This sub is fucking retarded. Maybe if y'all weren't nerdy IT support virgins you'd just live like normal people instead of doing this
eyewant 5y ago
Idiot. It's common to have posture problems.
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baseballfan0 5y ago
Enlighten me how posts like these are normal. The average guy doesn't spend 10 hours obsessing over his exact posture
butter_coffee 5y ago
Say all you want about Jordan Peterson being a meme, but really, in the opening chapter he discusses (the famous) lobster example: when a lobster is defeated in battle, his body literally produces chemicals that causes him to shrivel up.
You can guess what happens with the ratio is reversed, when there’s octopamine than serotonin. It was pretty inspiring to me. Maybe just by standing taller we adjust the chemical balances too.
Buchloe 5y ago
Athlean X is a physical therapist/ sports trainer on YouTube who has several videos on posture improvement exercises
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21309 5y ago
I second this comment. Jeff Cavalier is a YouTube living legend.
Buchloe 5y ago
He's great. He and Scooby are two fitness channels I really trust for legit training/ dietary advice.
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BostonPillParty 5y ago
Agreed.
Other exercises or machines I can mix in with my GSLP (similar painting program to 5x5)? I’ve always felt I should do more work on my back.
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Appex1 5y ago
Well I was trying to keep the thread short while providing as much information as possible. I was thinking this thread could serve as the basics for posture while people researched it more into depth themselves.
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Jolly-rancher359 5y ago
At the same time he's not getting paid to write a thesis here. Any amount of contribution is welcome and complaining about the detail of insight is childish behaviour. Go research on your own if you're intrigued, don't expect someone to spoon feed you all the information.
finclover9 5y ago
One trick I was taught is to imagine that your body is a string and to gently pull that string upward in order to make it straight. Your head, shoulder and pelvis should naturally straighten up.
1976103053776 5y ago
Lol, looks like he's just stretching his neck out.
LanBearPig 5y ago
Don't forget resting tongue posture. Tongue up, lips together, teeth together. Stop breathing through your mouth.
UpYourSMVorDieTryin 5y ago
yes, mike mew deserves to be mentioned here
BigMawsmidget 5y ago
For those that are overweight or obese while you're doing those exercises just drop the weight that will help a lot as well.
Brooklyn-Boy 5y ago
Everyone looking into correcting or improving their postures ought to look into getting checked out by a chiropractor of some sort. One of my friends who practices laid me out and "adjusted" me with some deep tissue massage and stretches for about 45 minutes. I honestly went up an inch in height when I stood back up, because I was slumped so forward with my shoulders misaligned. They later asked how I sleep - which was on my stomach, with my arms under my pillow/head. Apparently this posture pulls your shoulder forward and keeps your pectoral muscles tight/encourages them to contract, which contributes to that slouch posture. I'm still not ready to pull a Rocky and sleep on wood, but definitely need to look into sleeping better.
Try it out guys - Visit someone who knows something about the spine and let them do some work on you. Check out how you sleep and how it affects your muscles. Stretch them out and strengthen them, and adapt your environment to encourage a healthier alignment of your spine, neck and head (chair support, screen height, bed elements, etc..). Hope this helps.
calfmonster 5y ago
As someone going into the rehab field with no inherent bias against chiros (I’ve been to ones who do soft tissue work — ART) I would suggest getting a referral for a physical therapist/physio. There’s good and bad in any profession, PTs included who are DYEL, but finding a good chiro who focuses on more than snap-and-crack repeat visits and actually wants to help fix you is a lot harder than a decent PT and PT is far more likely to be covered by insurance unless you have a really solid plan
Basically, if you never address the underlying issues, it will always come back. There are holistic chiropractors who do address this and as always, do your research
Appex1 5y ago
If I had the money, I would pay for a chiropractor, but I think that a lot of the information that a chiropractor would tell you can be found online except for the massages.
Vasallo7G 5y ago
Just do deep push-ups to fix this