Time and time again, self improvement articles draw in the "devil's advocates" and black pill incels. "I can't lift because my face is fucked up." "The girl responded like that because you're handsome." "Game doesn't work for ugly people."
Even if these guys have a real point, and things are as bad as they say, there is absolutely no point in crying about it. All they are doing is lounging around in a pit of despair. This will make their lives absolutely miserable. Just thinking positive despite the "harsh truth" of life will keep them somewhat happy. Besides this, improving fitness, social skills, and other things which draw in women will drastically improve your life even if you don't get laid once. If you haven't tried your very best to get laid, than you can't call yourself an incel. And if at the end you've failed after giving it your best, at least you've likely had quite an interesting life, and, as the saying goes: "It's better to have tried and failed than to have never tried at all."
Let me describe myself for all of you. I am 6'1. I have long blonde hair, and blue eyes. My face is extremely handsome. I have a swimmer's body. Basically, I look like a young Ryan Gosling. I am extremely intelligent, but not so intelligent that I can't relate to people. Just enough to be ahead of 95% of the population. I am a talented pianist and composer. To sum it all up, my genetics are about as perfect as they could possibly be.
According to incels, I should be living in some sort of magical dream world where women throw themselves at me all the time. This could not be further from the truth. For a ridiculously long time, I was a virgin. I was decently popular and well liked, but for whatever reason I was painfully shy and extremely anxious around girls. Finally one day I decided to take control of my situation. It took a long time, and a lot of hard work, but I finally lost my virginity and managed to become successful with women. I was very lazy before and expected everything to be handed to me on a platter due to my natural gifts. I was like Elliot Rodgers - pure arrogance coupled with severe anxiety and extreme laziness.
There are thousands of guys like me out there. There are guys who could be male models, but they don't take care of themselves and therefore look average an unnoticeable. There are guys who never approach girls. There are guys who "have it all" but are socially awkward. There are guys like Nikola Tesla - 6'3, handsome AF, genius level intelligence - but they choose to focus on their work instead of women. There's a whole website dedicated to the problem called "Goodlookingloser." The point is, there are thousands and thousands of guys who are very smart, very talented, very good looking, and very unsuccessful with women, whether that's by choice or not. Most people don't want to work hard and don't care that much about success. An ugly man who works hard to develop himself will have a better sex life than a good looking man who lazes around. So many people are wasting their potential away. If you are an incel, work hard to improve and you will be surprised at just how successful you can become.
baboonmann 5y ago
Imagine improving yourself, but still getting rejections constantly. I mean really working at it for years and years and getting jack shit (or the occasional most repulsive disgusting women known to mankind). Reality will break even the strongest alpha mindset. That's being ugly. There are the lazy dudes, the anxious dudes, but there are also the ones that can't do shit but get cosmetic surgery(if they can afford it) and hope for the best.
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TheReformist94 5y ago
Sorry mate but you just fucked up and wasted the hand nature dealt you.
TastyPlace 5y ago
What exactly did you start doing differently? You sound like me except I don't have anxiety in that way, I'm just shy and afraid to let girls know I am attracted to them even though I have been told over and over that I'm cute. I have low self esteem I guess
[deleted] 5y ago
I just started forcing myself to do stuff that was highly uncomfortable to me. I'm a very agreeable person so I hate upsetting or offending others. I started small, just asking random people for the time, giving random compliments, asking for directions, etc. I even went on omegle and explicitly asked girls if I could masturbate for them. This was super uncomfortable and I got a lot of negative reactions but the more I did it the more immune to the negative responses I got. I would just keep trying to sexualize my conversations with women so that I would become unaffected by rejection and their reactions. I had to continuously get very uncomfortable and start get used to doing what I had to do regardless of what other people thought. It was a hell of a lot harder than it sounds. You just have to keep pushing every day and keep making it a challenge for yourself.
mattattack3000 5y ago
Why do you sound so god damn full of yourself
[deleted] 5y ago
Because I am. I'm trying to kill my ego, for enlightenment and all that jazz, but it's just so damn hard when you look in the mirror and perfection stares back at you ;)
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Reynaldo7 5y ago
Wasn't this the guy that said lifiting should be easy? Lol
JaJammerJan 5y ago
Coming from someone slightly above average looking: You would have women show interest in you at almost every social event you go to. No, women don't literally throw themselves at good-looking guys, but they would be very inviting and kind to you. But I guess since you have never been ugly you wouldn't know the difference of how privileged you are.
Long time and hard work? You already had all the looks and the popularity in place when you started. Literally all you had to do at this point is approach women and reap the rewards of having your genes.
I agree with your message that people should never give up, but you are pretending that there are no HUGE genetic imbalances in the SMP that will never be resolved by hard work.
But most importantly, these genetic factors crush self esteem and motivation to try harder. Yes there are succes stories of ugly guys getting extremely good with women, because they were resilient enough to get over the HUGE disadvantage they were born with, but many will fail.
It's compareable to being born in some ghetto in poverty. Yes some will make it out and become succesfull, but many will end up in poverty their entire lives.
TunedtoPerfection 5y ago
If you look at someone and deduce they have no problems simply because they are attractive - Do not pass sidebar read up on how to get over oneitits.
If you think someone can't have issues because they are at the top of their craft - Do not pass sidebar read up on how to get over oneitits
You are using abstract traits to elevate someone to a level you believe they should be at. Stop that shit now.
Everyone has problems, Everyone has issues, everyone's shit stinks as much as your after a long hard night out.
[deleted] 5y ago
Nice humble brag. Don't forget to show us your mensa membership card. Anyway, we all have to go through the lengthy journey of self improvement.
strikethrough123 5y ago
The deck is stacked against many people, including myself. You can either choose to climb the uphill battle and own it, or wallow in depression.
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Iwannachokekatie 5y ago
Elaborate on that. If you really are the way you describe yourself, all it would take would be getting tinder. You are overplaying the importance of your hard work.
And yeah, even if you are a natural Chad, you will not get laid if you do not go outside and come in contact with women.
JaJammerJan 5y ago
This lol. All he had to do was install tinder, swipe for 2 weeks, get 100 matches, send every girl he matched with a copy-pasta sexual opening msg and have 5-10 women respond positively back and hookup with them.
[deleted] 5y ago
Nice post man it’s very inspiring when one of the top 5% blesses us with such wisdom thank you young Ryan Gosling
[deleted] 5y ago
I'm going to get downvoted for this.
But OP has a point. I could see why most readers wouldn't be able to relate, but he is speaking the truth.
the_real_lunch_box 5y ago
yeah, I agree with OP. By thinking about where I was when I started. I was skinny fat, and now I am less skinny than fat and wow does my face look 10 times better. I already notice looks from people in general. Before you start with self-improvement you might say, but my face is shit, im short,,,, bla bla bla. Get fit, lift dress better groom. easy 3 points in SMV maybe even 5.
Us "ugly" losers just need to work harder than all the guys with natural genetics. Trust me you will notice your strengths pretty quick its not all bad.
WalkingProduct 5y ago
"Us ugly losers need to work harder than all the other guys"
This 100x. I'm only 18, still in HS. I'm skinny fat (working on it) and probably a 3 or 4 on looks. I've been told countless times I'm ugly, I'm annoying, etc. I get trash talked all the time behind my back, rumors that arent close to true (apparently someone said my dick is 4"?)
I've been with 6 girls in one year, with only one being an HB6 and the rest being HB7 or above. I dont know exactly how I did it, and they ended horribly, and since then I've found this sub.
My point is, I'm a 3, I've heard it all the time, yet I've fucked a handful of beautiful/hot girls with nice bodies (actresses, cheerleaders, ballerinas)
If I can do it, then so can someone else, the key is to not give up hope just when one girl rejects you. Move on to the next, and the next, until you succeed
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saltyafrican 5y ago
Facing the same issue man. Also 6'1, muscular, dress well and have been told I look like a young Will Smith.
Women stare at me on the street and public transport and guys grab their girls closer when they see me.
Little do they know I have a long way to go learning how to game and pick up girls.
JaJammerJan 5y ago
Now imagine you are 5'6, balding and have been told you look like a creep/pedophile.
Women on the street and public transport stay away from you and give you looks of disgust. Groups of guys laugh at you when you pass by them.
Now imagine you ALSO have those self-esteem and lack of game issues you currently have on top of this being your day to day life. That's inceldom.
Good luck.
dr_warlock 5y ago
Passive aggressive male hate everywhere, specifically when females are around. Harsher punishments and targeted insults at work for no reason. Women 'auto-reject' in fear they have no power and have to compete with other women (they literally admit it). Women reject you because they see the men hate you. Comments (direct and indirect) and stares. Can be one of, if not, the tallest, good looking, confident guy in the room yet can't score to save your life despite nothing wrong with your social skills. If you do start making progress at a venue, everyone stares in resentment. A product that every says is amazing but never buy. Totally get you. It's like a game of survivor, the best guy usually gets cut early because everyone fears him even though they had a good relationship with them.
-
There will be two posts on it (the reality with women and the passive aggression of men). Men see you as a competitor no matter what you do even if they do better than you. Women don't think they can snag you on their terms. Women see the men resent you then roll with the majority against you. Tall and good looking gets you verbal praise and admiration, but doesn't really open legs (on its own). I've had to work for most of my lays. You induce arousal, but also bruise the ego just by existing. You often have to put in double the work other guys do to overcome that sense of insecurity. I rarely see men tested as hard as I am. Losing to a guy who has probably never passed a shit test in his life. I'll get auto rejected, then some other strange guy 3 points below me, 6 inches shorter, and kinda shy gets heavy grinding 1 min into conversation. The highest status guys, the most powerful guys, the guys that get hot chicks are rarely anything special. Your only real option is to hang with other good looking people or others with self-confidence. I've only met a few over the years. Others just keep you at arms length and mate guard. All life is about sex. </end small rant, will be continued>.
saltyafrican 5y ago
That is quality response. Thank you for taking the time to educate me on this, it is a real eye opener. I wholeheartedly agree and look forward to your posts. Cheers!
ShavedApel 5y ago
I was talking to my girlfriends about this, basically guys like you they assume are assholes and they also worry that if you were there boyfriend it would be too much competition from other girls.
AfricanBushDoctor 5y ago
We must look alike, I get that all the time.
[deleted] 5y ago
lol at you attractive folk trying to compare yourselfs with incels.
saltyafrican 5y ago
Not at all friend. Simply stating I have a lot to learn and still on this journey trying to find the right path
[deleted] 5y ago
i mean, if women give you looks then that's basically the green light. an incel doesn't get any looks.
[deleted] 5y ago
Check out Goodlookingloser dude. It's a great site filled with good stuff and the guy who made it was literally a good looking loser.
sky_fallen 5y ago
That guy is creepy as fuck
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SSJ_Trunks 5y ago
His videos are soooo cringe
[deleted] 5y ago
You're not wrong but some of his stuff is decent.
AceMav21 5y ago
Haha I have an IQ in the top 98% of the population.
[deleted] 5y ago
To be fair Einstein had an IQ in the top 98%. He just also happened to be in the top .01%
kiwifx 5y ago
So.. only a fraction of the population is dumber than you?
AceMav21 5y ago
Dammit ☝???? that guy he’s in the top 99.9% of the population
Deputy_Dan 5y ago
Are you aware of the 30 point rule? Do you find communication difficult with some people?
Pilliam66 5y ago
My IQ is in the 135-140 range and I do struggle to find topics to talk about with people. Very rarely do my interests align with theirs. On top of that, school was so easy for me that I haven't developed a decent work ethic which is fucking me now that I've left education.
AceMav21 5y ago
Nope. 120-130 is the sweet spot because you can communicate with people between 95-125 and 125 to 155.
Entropy-7 5y ago
Anything over 130 has no real world effect. It's obviously good for math, theoretical science, philosophy and certain creative fields but in, say, business, the milItaly, politics and personal interactions in general it doesn't add much and may even be counter productive if you are too clever by half or just plain spergy.
AceMav21 5y ago
That guy is actually right☝????
eyewant 5y ago
What is this 30 point rule?
Deputy_Dan 5y ago
The 30 point rule is that persons can only have an effective conversation, where both parties understand each other, within an iq difference of 30 points or less.
Entropy-7 5y ago
I infer that it means that people who are separated by more than 30 point ts of IQ will have a difficult or tedious time communicating.
Roughly speaking, that is like someone in the top 20% trying to have a conversation with someone in the bottom 20% (statistically that would be the 16th and 84th percentile). Alternatively, think of your typical college student (IQ 115, again 84th percentile) chatting with a genius (IQ 145, top 0.27%).
eyewant 5y ago
That's funny. I would assume that someone who is smart would be a better communicator, no matter the person. And it's interesting that everyone in the same IQ group speaks the same "language" by implication of that rule.
DF-RP 5y ago
High intelligence doesn't make one a good communicator, and I'd venture a guess that high iq even weakly correlates with bad communication skills. My anecdotal observations from hanging around a bunch with 130+ iq people.
Entropy-7 5y ago
I mentioned elsewhere that over 130 IQ, it doesn't matter for practical purposes. It can be a detriment if you are spergy. Richard Feynmen, Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawkings were profoundly intelligent men who could express themselves in ways well beyond the 30 point rule.
Many don't. I had a friend in high school who was one of the top three minds. There were three kids who always won all the academic awards and he was one of them. We did the "Sir Isaac Newton Physics Contest" written by over 5000 kids across the province. I scored in the top 5% but didn't make the team (they considered the results of the best three students from each school) because buddy and the other guys (who I was also friendly with) were at the 99 point whatever percentile.
I invented 4-dimensional tic-tac-toe (although it was independently invented by others) and we would play it when we got bored in calculus class.
This is years ago so bear with me: he re-wrote the graphics subroutines of the Atari 400 computer to be more efficient. They published his work and incorporated it into later models, but I don't know if he ever got paid for it.
He went to Waterloo Univerity to study computer science. After graduation a software startup offered him a job for minimum wage plus stock options. He took it and a few years later he cashed out. That company is know as Microsoft. Since then, he set up his own company to port classic video games into newer platforms.
The critical thing is this. As he was approaching graduation, he applied to RMC (the Royal Military College of Canada, sort of our West Point) and, as he related to me, they said that his academics were impressive but he showed no leadership potential.
Not exactly, but quick wit people use metaphors, in-jokes, sarcasm and a raft of other conversation tools that slower people can't keep up with. Plus various people are more informed and well read and that correlates heavily with intelligence.
Communication is not the same as manipulation or propaganda.
Democrats (in the USA) and Liberals (in Canada) are bifurcated, intellectually, compared to Republicans and Conservatives. The left has an intellectual elite that tells the left tail of the bell curve what to believe.
Look at any presidential election exit poll and, if they have the stats, the Democrat wins among those with post grad educations AND high school dropouts. On the other hand, the Republican candidate traditionally pulls well with people with a bachelors degree or "some college" as might be mentioned.
I say "traditionally" because I have not looked at the Trump exit polls.
Unless Cthulu was running as a third party candidate on the motto "Why Vote For The Lesser Evil?" if I was American I would have voted for Trump - despite all his flaws - because he was better than the alternative.
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Dabunghole 5y ago
Wow how did this shit get through? Mods on this sub have been compromised. Place sucks now.
kynikos997 5y ago
My best friend told me his new gf thought I was a player. Lol what? I haven't had sex in 5 years. I love myself and have never felt better.
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antariusz 5y ago
Keep working on your “inner game” until your interior matches the exterior.
There is nothing wrong with being a player, it’s a compliment from women.
sky_fallen 5y ago
It's half genetics, half upbringing. I have great genetics (been to a lab and confirmed, top 5% for everything mentally and physically) but I had the worst upbringing so I have a tiny body, weak chin, gay voice, very slow social responses etc.
eyewant 5y ago
What kind of tests are these?
sky_fallen 5y ago
Muscle sampling, breath analysis, ECG etc. Tell you what kind of activity you are suited to, recovery times, potential fitness. As well as various batteries of blood tests from different companies. It's usually in cities with sports research uni departments. In the future more of this will be done with DNA tests, but there isn't enough genomic sequencing yet.
eyewant 5y ago
Thanks. So did you find out what kind of muscle fibers you have in your arms in legs? If you're suited for fast punches, or good with long distance racing? Slow twtch or fast?
DayGameChirality 5y ago
That guy truly didn't understand women. He was like from another dimension (or women were to him).
[deleted] 5y ago
He was basically superhuman. He was actually quite sociable when he wanted to be and very desired by women. He had a hard time understanding the fickle and irrational sides of human behavior. Best man who ever lived in my opinion. Reading a biography on him right now, hopefully will make a full post about him at some point.
DayGameChirality 5y ago
Which biography are you reading? Is it good?
[deleted] 5y ago
Yea it was the first biography of him written by Tesla's good friend right after his death. The book is called "Prodigal Genius" by John J. O'Neill.
RavelsBolero 5y ago
Which is correct. So on that point they're right. What they get wrong is the part where they look on in jealousy rather than doing something to improve themselves.
conflagratorX 5y ago
So you proved that having good looks won't help you if you have mental issues like social anxiety (I think they call it mentalcel).
You did not proved that incels are wrong.
[deleted] 5y ago
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clon3man 5y ago
A good point. This post reminded me of why many self-help books / blogs are hypocritical.
Very commonly, midway through the book the author shares a story of a "tragic" point in their life where nothing was going well in terms of their health, finances, depression,etc. Except that, very often, their "mediocre" life is defined by being a college graduate with medicore-but-functioning jobs, medicore-but-functioning-relationships, and mediocre-but-functioning living arrangements.
These books and stories have nothing to offer someone trying to recover pissing away 5-10 years and trying to start over with nothing e.g. a history of part time retail jobs, zero relationships, and zero success living away from their parents.
"If you work real hard you can become half of what some people are today" is not a motivational message.
Sometimes people are in a real hard place and a story of someone going through life with minor difficulties in getting a great job or a great relationship are absolutely useless.
eyewant 5y ago
Exactly. OP might have made it worse for incels. But its a good read for the average looking person.
[deleted] 5y ago
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AfricanBushDoctor 5y ago
Totally true, isolating yourself from society doesn't only deprive you from the things you have to be experiencing to grow as man, it causes the skills and whatever other talent you've built over the months/years to depreciate.
[deleted] 5y ago
I mean guys who are fat and hiding very good bone structure.
[deleted] 5y ago
Lazy people, a lot of them on dis sub...
sky_fallen 5y ago
I would have a very good face but my body just loves to put all the fat on my face.
My arms and chest are ripped already but my face is just fat.
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187oddfuture 5y ago
Just like Rollo said. Incels and betas are like crabs in a bucket: right when one of them is about to escape the others pull him back in to prevent him from succeeding.
[deleted] 5y ago
The Incel mentality is Red Pill Nihilism. It's the idea that since women seek out the best mates, they'll never possibly sleep with someone less than perfect. Basically a sexual zero-sum game. And it's a fundamental misunderstanding of TRP.
Yes, women seek out the best mates. But the best mates won't always find these women. There are plenty of girls whose highest SMV mate was just some fit guy with confidence. The supposed "Chads" that fuck every girl and look like a Photoshopped Dan Bilzerian are both exceedingly rare and physically not capable of fucking so many women that no one else gets any. The majority of women will go for you as long as you're just fit, confident, and don't look like Quasimodo (which is possible for even the most self-proclaimed ugly Incel).
Incels need to understand that yes, girls will sleep with other, sometimes better guys in their lifetime (expecting any to be virgins is delusional, and why would you want only sexually inexperienced, "pure" girls anyway). But you can still sleep with plenty by just putting the slightest effort in. I used to be an Incel myself (I just wasn't part of the community, but aligned with their views), and thought that because I was overweight and ugly I wouldn't ever get laid. Turns out, by just getting in shape and being confident, I could sleep with dozens of girls. I stopped blaming others and fixed myself.
Ultimately, at the end of the day, Inceldom is an excuse. It's an excuse to put no effort into yourself by saying that you couldn't achieve what you want anyway. As someone who's struggled with weight my whole life, I can understand it. But the only option you have is to try. If you don't try, you have no right to complain about not getting what you want. So unless some Incel has gotten in good shape, become social and confident, asked out many women, and still didn't get laid, he's just making up excuses.
TheReformist94 5y ago
Women only sleep with the best mates.anything less is settling hence the nihilism
[deleted] 5y ago
The nihilism comes from internalizing Red Pill ideas without any meaning behind them, thus causing you to give up hope, not just Hypergamy. Notice I said Red Pill Nihilism, as in Red Pill without meaning, not just nihilism.
Hypergamy is just a part of Red Pill ideas, stating that women always want to choose the best mates. The meaning behind it being to improve your SMV to be that best mate. Incels interpret it without the meaning and give up, saying they'll never be the best.
Entropy-7 5y ago
Teenage (high school incels) are annoying. Roughly half of high school kids are virgins and another 20% or so have had one sex partner, another 10% have had 2, so one is not hard done by and it isn't out of the ordinary to not be getting regular sex before graduation.
Rian_Stone 5y ago
If anything. I exemplify the red pill nihilist, as does uncle Vas and a few others
[deleted] 5y ago
I suppose to clarify, it would be the difference between Optimistic Nihilism and the Stereotypical Defeatist Nihilism. The difference between using it as motivation or reason to quit
Iwannachokekatie 5y ago
Definitely not. You are overestimating the looks of incels and underestimating the standards of women.
[deleted] 5y ago
Maybe. But I would hazard a guess that only a very small portion of the Incel community is actually this ugly. The majority just ride the wave of low self esteem
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[deleted] 5y ago
I myself (a virgin) would like a virgin just because it would be awkward for both uf us, not just for me, so i wouldn't be judged or laughed at my poor dick game. Besides when an experienced girl see that you fuck bad, she won't fuck u again. So it's really hard to get xp. I don't see 'pure', they're whores, all of them. I don't plan to have kids, or LTR,let alone marrying.
U were a textbook volcel/schroedingercel. U don't know if you are ugly, until u get to the bone structure (low bf%). Then u see are u ugly or not.
[deleted] 5y ago
There's always plastic surgery, if one wants the nuclear option.
[deleted] 5y ago
Yeah, that's what i'm gonna need...
[deleted] 5y ago
Yeah, just make sure it's with someone reputable.
[deleted] 5y ago
Sure, brah, got it all figure it out, just need college to finish, and get a job
[deleted] 5y ago
Again, like I said in my first comment, you're just making up excuses. When I lost my virginity, I lasted maybe a whole 10 seconds. I kept my cool and didn't freak out and apologize, and guess what? The girl kept fucking me. Then I got better and learned to actually fuck. You're lying to yourself and moving the goalpost up with this whole virgin thing.
Again, stop with the excusing. You're trying to scramble for an answer to keep your ideology intact. Who cares about your genetics and bone structure? I can promise you no girl ever looked at me when I was 300lbs and said "Well, he's fat and ugly, but his bone structure isn't fucked up". Because it never happened. No one gives a flying fuck about your bone structure. Your problems are not caused by your genetics, but by you refusing to play by the rules of the real world, so you say they're unfair and quit playing. It's counterproductive and lazy. If you have a weak chin or a big nose, no one cares unless you yourself become self conscious about it. Work with what you have, just like everyone else.
Iwannachokekatie 5y ago
You talk about real world rules and then you spurt this nonsense. People care about looks, it is even backed by science. Google halo effect. You sound like the typical good looking guy preaching that it's all confidence, because you never had to deal with being actually ugly.
[deleted] 5y ago
Of course people care about looks. It's common sense that they would. But it's also been proven through many studies that girls like guys who have a nice body and guys that take care of themselves. Yet no one likes to admit that if they worked out and actively tried to improve themselves, they wouldn't look bad. It's all "my chin is weak/nose is large therefore there's nothing I can do", when you never try to see what you can actually achieve.
And this hostility is yet another way to keep believing what you want to believe. It's dismissing a different opinion because "You aren't super ugly, so your opinion is invalid". And so you dismiss that confidence would absolutely help you. No, it's not going to fix all your problems. Nothing will, and we all have to live with that. But it helps dramatically. That's the "real world rules" that you try to dismiss.
Iwannachokekatie 5y ago
;)
Nobody is denying that getting swole is way better than being fat or a skeleton, but that won't change your ugly face. I have wide hips, narrow shoulders, big nose and a weak chin. My thigh is the size of a models waist, but I'm still kinda ugly. It's not that hard to comprehend, is it?
And no, I would love to know and believe than even guys who aren't blessed can potentially slay, albeit with effort, but you're just not convincing at all, despite suggesting an empowering belief.
Confidence would help everyone, just not to the same degree. Not denying that either.
You make a lot of assumptions and strawman a lot. You acted like looks don't matter at all in your previous post, now you admit that it's logical that they matter.
[deleted] 5y ago
I understand the contradiction to this and I did word my first point poorly. I forgot to elaborate on it.
People care about looks, but genetic flaws that everyone have aren't as important as Incels say they are. Looks matter, but the looks you can change and improve like your physique and your body language are just as important as the genetics, so there's no point caring about things like your chin or nose since you can't do anything about them. People won't care about them if you improve the other areas you're lacking in, at least not to the point of eliminating all attraction.
Hope that clears things up ;)
But... it can though. Working on neck muscles can dramatically change the way your face sits on your shoulders, and getting to a low body fat with lots of muscle will dramatically change your face. Especially if your testosterone is high enough. Even if the change is minimal, people's perception of you will change dramatically, and they will absolutely care less about your face.
As for you pointing out your flaws, no one cares. Everything but the big nose can be helped by putting on muscle, and even then as I've said before, you can't change it. Everyone has flaws, and you need to work despite them, or else you've just given up because you're too lazy to put in work. So yes, it is hard to comprehend why you are putting so much effort into believing you shouldn't put in effort.
I'm not sure what exactly you meant here, so I'll respond to the two interpretations I got from it.
If you believe that only supermodels can get laid, you are so far disconnected from reality that I can't even relate to you. Go into any public space and look at the couples walking around. You'd be hard pressed to find even a couple "blessed" guys. Most are just average guys who have flaws like you, but put in effort and take care of themselves.
Again, my previous post was poorly worded. Refer to the beginning of this one for my actual point. It's still the same as my original post's, just better worded. Essentially, hardwired looks are as helpful/harmful as improvable looks, so focus on improvable looks instead of genetic, since you can't change the latter. By doing so people will overlook your genetic flaws, since everyone has them. This argument of course going along with my other argument that even by the Pareto principle argument that Incels like to throw around, average looking guys (which 90% of Incels fall under the category of with effort) can absolutely get laid.
[deleted] 5y ago
They're all the same. It would be to hard to admit it's coz of looks coz everybody likes to feel he earned the attraction not that he's lucky...
endertheend 5y ago
Why not just. . .TRY first before believing that this is all bs by "attractive people" Seriously, just take a year of lifting, Get down to 8-10% body fat, and get some professionial pictures done, hell, compare them to your before pictures, you WILL become "more attractive" and if by some chance you don't well, then you have PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE to make a point.
But you don't have that (or else you would have already shown it) So, since you don't want to put in the work to prove us right, why not just put in the work to prove us wrong?
[deleted]
[deleted] 5y ago
I went from 3.5/10 to 4.5/10 at best. Tehnically i am more attractive, just not enough. I was skinny already before had a good haircut before so my face didn't change at all, just my body got more muscular, but that is it.
[deleted] 5y ago
This "Us vs. Them" mentality is yet another excuses used to dismiss differing opinions. Looks matter, and so does personality characteristics, physique, and status. You can't change your genetics, but you can improve the rest dramatically, so stop making genetics your focal point. Just like you say I'm ignoring looks, you're ignoring everything else.
[deleted] 5y ago
Just become successful/famous bro.
UncleChido 5y ago
Tbh this is extremely true. As long as you don’t get stupid and become a betabux, women would gravitate towards you. Success is a chick-magnet.
[deleted] 5y ago
It's just it's insanely hard, otherwise everyone would be doing it...
UncleChido 5y ago
Yes. We just have to keep trying though. Become successful or die trying. Also considering success is defined individually, it’s not that extremely hard.
Keep on improving mate. That’s what trp is about.
[deleted] 5y ago
Again, dismissing an argument because you can't defend against it and desperately need to rationalize your ideology when it's being disproven.
Work out, dress nice, learn social skills. It's simple, easy, and dramatically helps with women. And I can guarantee 95% of Incels haven't actually done any of it, because they believe they shouldn't have to try to get women, so they blame genetics and overexaggerate the steps they need to take in order to actually get laid.
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[deleted] 5y ago
Check
I've got social anxiety when meeting new people especially hot girls, if anybody knows cure i'm all ears.
[deleted] 5y ago
Every girl that is considering to fuck you. The process is subconcious, not concious analysizing like "hmm, let me check the millimeters of zygomatic bone, proportions of mandible and maxilla... Nope not enough angularity. Next!"
[deleted] 5y ago
Yes, they also subconsciously check for personality characteristics, status, and physique, which are all things you can actively improve.
I'm not saying that genetics don't matter, I'm saying you can't change them, so stop making them the only thing you care about. Focus on everything you can change and see how far it gets you.
[deleted] 5y ago
Personality is a blue pill mantra. Status is really really hard to achieve. Having a muscular body is waaaay easier.
My theory: there is a genetic cut off, looks are a ticket, game/frame/behavour is make or break. I'm not talking about being a model but there is certainly some minority of men that are undesirable no matter what...
[deleted] 5y ago
By personality I mean being confident and emotionally independent, a.k.a Red Pill ideals.
Not exactly. Status like being a CEO is difficult, but status applies to many different social heirarchies and groups. You can be the leader in a group of friends quite easily, and it gives you status to anyone who interacts with that group.
There most likely is, I'm not disagreeing. But the men that are truly undesirable are such a small minority. Some of them might be a part of the Incel community. But the vast majority of Incels are just regular people with flaws, who don't get what they want as easily as they want, and then parade around the small group of actually undesirable people as an excuse to take the blame away from themselves.
[deleted] 5y ago
Yeah leader of losers, i already was that.
Man, look, u don't get it, do you? 80/20 is genetical not behavoural. Even if it is all about 'holding frame™'; so everyone can get in 20%? Fuck simple mathematics.
[deleted] 5y ago
The Pareto Principle would describe that 20% of the guys get 80% of the girls. But like I said before, your whole idea that no girl will like you falls apart when you understand it's not a zero-sum game. Even a genetic distribution along those lines doesn't separate the men into "gets laid" and "doesn't get laid", its just the way it distributes the resources.
[deleted] 5y ago
You are basically telling me to run betabux game or be a cuck? Alpha fuck/chad or i as well bang escorts 4 life...
tibikush2012 5y ago
Not an incel, but I really don't understand the point of your post.
wainbros66 5y ago
He wanted to brag about himself lol, I don’t think he really proved anything honestly
MiniReforma 5y ago
Didn't you read? He's super attractive and smart
AlmightyPerun 5y ago
Didn't YOU read? He was lazy and socially retarded and didn't know how a pussy even looked like, even though he was tall and good looking in terms of genetics. At least try glancing over it for fuck's sake.
His point is that what matters the most is WORK, not genetics, which is absolutely true. Genetics don't mean shit, unless you're Quazimodo or some shit, which the majority of incels aren't.
Iwannachokekatie 5y ago
No, the take away is that WORK is needed for a socially retarded but genetically blessed guy to be successful. This purely anecdotal post has nothing useful for the genetical bottom of the barrel.
AlmightyPerun 5y ago
At the end of the day, only you can help yourself, so have fun with your life. If you can't see that work is everything, ESPECIALLY if you aren't "gifted" in any way, then you have more learning to do.
Iwannachokekatie 5y ago
Nobody is denying that working on your self is no. 1, especially for the nongifted. But saying that genetics don't mean shit is plain wrong.
red_philosopher 5y ago
This is serious advice. Men need to take charge and ownership of their situations instead of bitching about it. Hard work matters more than any amount of genetics.
drty_pr 5y ago
If you eat a shitty dry cupcake with no icing, it's pretty gross. Now if you take that same cupcake and put the most decadent icing you can possibly make on top, suddenly a lot of people would describe it as a decent cupcake.
red_philosopher 5y ago
Never hurts to have good frosting :)
pibereddit 5y ago
nice post and nice perspective, i have a unbelievable memory and intellect. I can almost remember everything i read by heart, which gives me an unbelievable data base of knowledge which is very alienating because i can never talk to people about really interesting stuff. the only people i really connect are intellectuals (obviously i only talk about they majors) it's hard and frustrating being like this in a society where being smart and well educated is "un-cool" specially around women, i have to try very hard to talk to them in a way they can relate and respond, so anyways i just wanted to share my situation, by the way i live in a undevolped country wich doesn't help at all. English is not my language